Luck and its role in the Red Bulls dream run

Here we stand, a day after one of the exciting, heart-stopping and unforgettable playoff games in MLS history and there are plenty of people, both Red Bulls fans and neutrals, who are still scratching their heads at the improbability of the Red Bulls earning a place in the MLS Cup final.

Notice that word, earning. Whether you're one of those "they didn't deserve to be in the playoffs people" or not, you can't really argue with the fact that the Red Bulls endured and overcame an incredible amount of adversity to reach this point.

I will offer a more thorough breakdown of the match, as well as some behind-the-scenes notes on Monday (two cross-country flights in 30 hours have wiped me out), but for now I wanted to discuss the role that luck played in last night's Red Bulls victory:

I had touch on one sentiment I'm hearing a lot of, that the Red Bulls were lucky to win last night. Nobody on the Red Bulls denies that, and several people ranging from Juan Carlos Osorio to Dave Van Den Bergh said as much. Apparently some people forget that luck is part of the game and the Red Bulls worked hard enough and played well enough to take advantage of it. While Real Salt Lake had tons of close chances, and hit the post three times, the Red Bulls fought and clawed and played better than some critics are acknowledging this Sunday.

What some observers are failing to realize as well is the fact that the Red Bulls have had more than their fair share of bad luck in the playoffs through the years. From the last-minute penalty call that helped D.C. United beat the MetroStars in that first series in 1996, to the offside calls (one made, one not made) that cost the MetroStars in the 2000 Eastern Conference final, to the Bob Bradley years, when New England and D.C. United benefited from the MetroStars bad luck in the form of shaky calls (along with some poor play), or the late goals that crushed the club's playoff hopes in 2005 and 2006.

If anything, the Red Bulls have been due for some playoff luck for some time, and this year it has come in droves, both against Houston and last night against Real Salt Lake. On some level it is funny to hear Real Salt Lake fans bemoan their bad luck when this year has marked just their first foray into the MLS playoffs. Enduring playoff heartbreak is a rite of passage and last night's match will go down in the history books for both RSL and Red Bulls fans. When Real Salt Lake's time comes, it will be made that much sweeter by the agony endured last night at Rio Tinto Stadium. I mean really, who will forget that game and it's heart attack-inducing suspense, and for RSL, its heart-breaking finish?

So before you go complaining about the Red Bulls good luck you might want to think about the fact that it took 12 years of misery, a dozen years of bad bounces, blown calls, blown leads and terrible luck to get to this mother lode of good luck the Red Bulls have been graced with. Luckily for the Red Bulls and their fans, the team has come together and played well enough to make sure that this good luck didn't go to waste.

Comments

[Darwin]

Great Post!

[randall]

the comparison of the, lets say "tone" in coverage between this and the galaxys title run a few years back is interesting...

[kahlva]

Big props for the post Ives. Right on!

[Dannyc58]

Ives, well said.

[rpb]

No need for NYRB to apologize for its success. Its been a long time coming!

[Camjam]

Come on ives "the Red Bulls fought and clawed and played better than some critics are acknowledging this Sunday". You watched the game. I am a die-hard RSL fan, and I understand your points about how long NY has suffered, but that was possibly the most undeserved win I've every seen in a game, let alone a play off game.

[JJ]

You usually have to get some "breaks" along the way to win the MLS Cup. If you play well enough to be in position to get the breaks, and then take advantage of them, good for you. We in Houston have gotten some the last two years (red cards for opponents in 2nd half of 2nd leg in first round) and didn't get any this year.

I will say that it does appear that the Red Bulls have gotten a pretty good or disproportionate share of the breaks but the way we crown a "champion" in MLS, this is part of the deal.

[moma]

i just don't want to sit through another game of sit back and pray for a defensive mistake to exploit, possession was 56% to 44%, me no like negative soccer

[Ives]

Camjam, I respect your opinion but you might want to consider the possibility that it is impossible for an RSL fan to be objective about that game, let alone an RSL fan that was at the game. Why? Well, when you're at a home game like Saturday night's then you're going to cheer for everything RSL does well, boo with every alledged bad call and generally ignore anything the opposing team does well.

As for "undeserved", the point of the game is to score more than your opponent. Why did RSL "deserve" to win when it couldn't put one ball in the net?

[Anthony MetroBouts]

go away camjam

[eric]

Come on Camjam, get some perspective. As a neutral fan, that was one of the 5 least deserved wins I've seen. This year. Maybe. LOL, you don't think being a die-hard RSL fan colors your view?

When you give up a goal and can't finish, surprises happen, even if you dominate play from box to box.

[kahlva]

Camjam - ermmmmmm, no, not at all.

Even putting aside the truth that "at the end of the game, the team with the most goals wins", Red Bull simply had a better game plan.

They played a good first half. I would argue a little better than RSL. They went in 1-0 at the half.

The 2nd half, they bunkered. I actually am not a huge fan of them doing it so early, but that was what they did. And, sure, luck played some part in it, but you also have to realize that the Red Bulls withstood a ferocious RSL attack. The midfield, defense, and especially Cepero did great.

You're also forgetting the 2 or 3 counter-attacks that Red Bull had (with Dane Richards whiffing on 2 of them) in the 2nd half. The score could have been 2-1 RSL, sure. But it also could have been 3-0 Red Bull.

So, yeah. The Red Bulls played better than some critics are giving them credit for. But by this point we're used to people underestimating us and not giving us credit.

[andrew]

Come on guys, there is luck, and then there is possibly the most unattractive football ever played in playoff history! I mean as a Red Bull fan it is so hard to root for these guys because they play such horrendous soccer. I don't thing they connected 3 passes all game! I mean how many times did their d just boot the ball out when they were under no pressure at all! It was pretty crazy how ugly and undeserved this win really was.

[LJ]

I think the throwing Alexi Lalas's prediction in his face unnecessarily was what made some people pull the 'your lucky' card.

I don't think people were going to say too much about it until the ragging on Alexi, who was just making a prediction in agreement with most people. He basically said, unless they get some luck their way it's probably going to be RSL. Which seems pretty close to what was said in this blog post.

[cw]

Good points, RNBY has been a spectacularly unsucessful team, so I guess they're due. As a RSL fan this loss still stings, even though its the first playoffs for us as fans, we've been pretty snakebitten as a franchise. Here's hoping there will be a next time, when this loss will make it feel sweeter.

[kahlva]

Andrew - you're Red Bull fan?

LOL.

[LJ]

What made me say lucky was that post throwing Alexi Lalas's predictions in his face.

He made a completely rational prediction, going with a team with better season success, playing at home with a supportive crowd.

I hate Lalas but that was unnecessary and had a touch of emotion to which most observers would usually "calm down alright, you were pretty lucky to make it through that game"

[LJ]

Whoops, posted the same thought twice, didn't think it went through.

I live in the city so I'll be interested to see what kind of coverage NYRBs final appearance gets.

[RS]

Really Andrew? haha I never heard a fan of any team in any sport saying something like that.

[TheNug]

Well Ives, perhaps the NYRB do deserve a break after all these years; but fans of good football should be appalled.

Do you deny that the NYRB plays an aesthetically ugly game of football?

Talk about the epitome of anti-football, and I'm not even a fan of the term.

There were a few moments of excitement during last night's match, but by in large, the play was boring and ugly.

The match had no flow, was full of turnovers, and had a heavy dose of long ball. yay...

Would you disagree with that assessment?

Moreover, teams like the NYRB are bad for the image of MLS.

1) If they go on to win the champion, they would do so with a losing record. Tell me that this isn't wrong.

2) Tell me, if someone tuned in for MLS for the first time last night, what do you think are their general impression of the league?

I convinced a few people to watch, and let me tell you, they think even less of MLS now than they did beforehand.

For the sake of MLS, I pray that the nationally televised Championship match on ABC will be much improved from last night's performance.

[eric]

US Roster Release Video (with a nod to Bob Dylan)

http://mnt-ussoccer.blogspot.com/2008/11/us-roster-for-guatemala.html

[John]

1. Sorry, Ives, I think it's a bit weak to say that this year's playoff run and luck is just payback for earlier seasons. I don't see Metros and Redbull has been tremendously unlucky franchises on the field. What I see is a team that has been horrendously mismanaged and consistently tried to hire big names rather than just build a credible, competent team. And that tendency to over-reach and have bad people in key management roles consistently produced teams that didn't get results.

2. Yes, bad finishing by RSL and Houston. But both of those teams have had trouble finishing all year (RSL especially when Movsisiyan wasn't hot).

3. I think the larger points are this:
--with Angel, you have a player who is MONEY and can grab a goal given half a chance. And in the playoffs that means you need to score 2-3-4 times to be sure of beating the RedBulls.
--Van den Bergh was unappreciated in KC, originally unappreciated by JCO yet has possibly been the RedBulls MVP this season in my book. He's been the ONLY consistent midfield player all year and he's produced at key moments.
--Houston couldn't handle outside speed. In 2 matches, Richard was dominant in one. And that decided match #2 in the playoffs.
--Cepero has been onfire and the defense (with no depth) has held it together. To me, that has been the unlikely part. All the other stuff (RSL and Houston fail to finish, Van den Bergh makes clutch plays, Angel dangerous when it counts, Richards creates problems for Barrett) is not surprising in the least.

Did I expect RedBulls to be here? Absolutely not. I didn't think Cepero and the backline would get it done. But they have. Everything else has been on par for expectations or at least not out of the norm.

[ag nigrin]

Geez...Another stupid and ill informed eurosnob ...yes you TheNug!

[Ferri]

Great read, Ives. I, for one, am a little sick of the dismissive attitude that I've been seeing the past few weeks. In what other pro sport would you see such an outcry of the negativity when the underdog came through and made a run to the finals? The Tampa Bay Rays were lucky to go to the World Series too, right?
It may not have been beautiful, but the Metros played their guts out for the past three weeks and showed tremendous heart and resolve. We should feel inspired, not slighted because these "pawns" have managed to get outstanding wins.
My final thought-if my figures and math are correct the NY starters that beat Houston last week had an annual salary of ~$2,195,000; if you don't count Angel it was ~$602,000; if you don't count Angel and Van Den Bergh it was ~$355,000. That's about $45,000 less than Major League Baseball's minimum wage. I've never been more proud of this side.

[mikeK]

In a nut shell-

"Why does RSL deserve to win when they couldn't put a ball in the net."

Captures the game perfectly. Well said, Ives.

[TheNug]

and what did I say was actually wrong?

only MLS snobs believe bunker ball play is "entertaining".

[Hincha Tim]

Ives,
Of course luck has a place in the game, and the NYRB have had their share this year. And yes, they deserve to be in the final. Under the present rules, whether you agree with them or not, they came have come out ahead, so should be where they are. It might be different if the refs had handed them the game by some bad officiating, but I was at the RSL game, and while I thought there were some questionable calls, I don't think any of them were outlandishly bad, and that's a part of soccer.
What I will say is this: it's too bad that in MLS's biggest, highest profile game where most fans internationally and home are most likely to watch and make a judgement about the MLs and American soccer, that the biggest market team that plays negative defensive soccer is being represented on that stage. If they play like they did in the semi-final, it sure won't help the MLS's image here or abroad and win any new fans over.
Houston was a worthy Champion, Columbus would be a good representative the way they play, NYRBs no, and I state this simply on style of play, not on any other criteria.

[Hincha Tim]

Oh, and Ferri, I love how you and others somehow try to make the NYRBs some poor team with no salary. The starting salary of their starting 11 was almost 2x as much as that of RSL's starting 11 ($1,292,584 less than what you pay JPA). If you add the salaries of the respective coaching staffs it probably quadruples. Give me a break! The salary without JPA and Vand... they were on the field playing, their salary counts! The salary of the starting 11 of RSL was $52,571 if you only count Johnson. Wow!

[Isaac]

I love how Ives puts everything into perspective and then everything agrees. anyways, I think that the Red Bulls, while they've had their bad games, have the potential to play a kind of football thats very entertaining. The final should be attacking football to the max. should be great.

[Chris]

I now RSL fans will think they came within inches of scoring 3 times, but I was wonering if anyone has yet realized that when you hit the post not only were you a few inches from scoring, but you were also a few inches from missing completely....

LETS GO BULLS!

[NJ Guy No Longer Stuck in DC]

Good for the Red Bulls! About luck on the other hand...the Revolution and Buffalo Bills, now that's unlucky...

[j1m]

I'll make it real simple. If you don't want to rely on luck, you score a goal. Red Bull did. Real Salt Lake didn't. How much luck was involved in the blown shots? Or should we call it lack of skill under pressure?

Whatever. Red Bull bunkered, and that's why the play seemed so one sided. 10 men defending wasn't luck.

[cb]

Thanks for the post, Ives. what's that saying? luck = opportunity + preparation. the Red Bulls made the most of their opportunities, shut down their opponent's chances (clean sheets are hard to come by), made excellent use of their goalposts, plus prepared very hard for these playoff games. the team clearly did some tough mental preparation to turn around their woeful road record. I'm proud of this team and will gratefully accept luck along with the opportunities and preparation that went into these remarkable victories! Go Red Bulls!!!

[cbr]

whatever you RSL fans felt in Rio Tinto the other night just multiply that by 10 to feel RB fan's pain over the past 12 years.Is been total hell the past 12 years with the exception of about a year when Mathis was ripping it up. Man up and swallow the loss.

be mad at your players for not finishing their chances, dont be mad at RB for doing whatever they could to win.

[MiamiAl]

I think we should not get too ahead of ourselves here. Win the whole damm thing and we can have this conversation...

[MasterShake]

jeez what a bunch of whiners.

luck is part of the game, get over it. John Terry slipped on a PK and possibly cost Chelsea the champions league...unlucky? yes..but thats part of the game.

Yeah the Red Bulls bunkered down, but I distinctly remember 2 plays where the ball was skied over the net by RSL..any other team would have put the ball in the net not in the stands. RB took their chance and capitalized on it, thats what counts in this game.

Im tired of all the football snobs pretending like they know what playing "football" should be about. Negative soccer? what a load of crap.Instead of complaining try going out and playing the actual game.

People fail to realize that NY had many rookies in the line up. Sassano(rookie)? Cepero(rookie)? Ubiparipovic(hasnt played all season)? Jimenez (Mexican 2nd divison)? Boyens(TFC reject and that says alot)? Goldthwaite(speaks for itself)? Wolyniec(first goal of the season came in the previous game)?? Sounds like a star studded line up, right?

bottom line is RB played the game with a gameplan, you dont like it? too bad. go cry somewhere else. this is football, not a tickling competition.

Critics will be critics but I am tired of the dismissive attitude, if NY "didn't deserve it" then maybe NY shouldn't be the one advancing..past 2 teams it didnt "deserve" to beat.

As far as Lalas is concerned. Ives did the right thing by calling Lalas out, its one thing to predict an outcome and none of us expected NY to win, but its another thing to gloat about it. Lalas predicted that outcome and actually placed a wager as if to say there is absolutely NO WAY NY will win. This aggravated a lot of NY fans, considering that Lalas was the GM that ran RB into the ground and then resigned to take over Galaxy and we all know how that turned out.

[Matt]

I'm an RSL fan and was at the game last night. Maybe this has already been said, but even though we had those shots that went off the posts, we had two or three sitters that our strikers launched far into the stands. While luck had something to do with RBNY's win, some of the clear chances we had, we just did not convert.

[frank]

As is for the Jazz in basketball, Rio Tinto will be one tough place to play for visiting teams...altitude, packed, loud crowds ...

[Roberto]

the only reason I'm happy withRB win is for Ives who genuinely likes them and for this great blog he brings to all of us whiners.
but to say that I like this team and that they deserved it... No way.
I've said it before and will say it again; even though I'm in the NY area, I will never support this team, I'm not a localist, don't have any ties to Columbus other than my sister went to Denison univ in Ohio.. I really want Columbus to win period. They're the most entertaining to watch, and they were the real underdogs at the beginning of 08. And they convinced everybody with attractive football and unity.... Not LUCK like the RB... Because that was luck my friend to play two good games at the end of the season does not erase anything... I can't believe this is happening!! And if they win I will stop watching MLS... For a good while at least.... I just can't stand the RB with their ugly players/football sorry....GO CREW!!!!

[eric]

If NY wins, I'm going to stop watching MLS for a good while too. April or so, late March at the earliest.

[Chris]

Another aspect of luck that the Red Bulls have had this playoff is that they've been facing teams that they've pretty much done well against this season. As bad as their season has been, they've had winning records against the Dynamo (split the season series, but RB had more goals), RSL (who have never beaten the RB's in their history) and also against the Crew who they'll face next week in the final. The brackets could not have worked out better for them.

[Richard]

right'o frank... just get those smoke-bomb throwers into the SG and let them light them off in the stands...

[irishapple21]

Utahns always have piss and vinegar for New Yorkers. I never get it. Just play the game and let your game do the talking not your mouth. If RSL was any good, they would have at least scored a goal. Even when the ref allowed your fans to screen Cepero with smokebombs on your freekicks, RSL still couldn't score. Worry about your own house, guys.

[roberto]

talk about representing MLS to the world... Can you imagine if the RB wins the thing? How many goals did barca score at giants stadium?
What is the world gonna think?
"RB are US champs? Is that the little team that barca went to play a scrimmage with"
thats how bad a RB win would be for the image if MLS.
Columbus must win... For MLS's sake!!

[MasterShake]

roberto, you are an idiot..just so you know our top US National forward prospect started with RB.

[Camjam]

Yeah, JA played for them at one time... But did you see that game MS? RB style of play is ugly and annoying, and any half decent team with the slightest bit of luck will beat them. Sadly, no lucky team has played them in 2 weeks.

[sublicon]

Eff all the naysayers. We made it to the Cup, you didn't. Go cry in your pillow, don't do it here.

[Keith]

Camjam, I respect your opinion but you might want to consider the possibility that it is impossible for an RSL fan to be objective about that game, let alone an RSL fan that was at the game.

-----------------

Yet Ives feel completely impartial and objective, despite the fact he is clearly Red Bulls Fan, and follower, and was at the game himself. Just because you have sucked for 12 years doesn't mean you are "due".

[Nick]

Roberto is scared of what others will think of him. Poor Roberto.

Counterattacking soccer away from home is the norm, especially in knockout competitions. I don't see how anybody who has followed the sport could miss this.

The real issue with these people is that they simply hate the NY franchise. They can f*ck off for all I care. NY is in the final. Let me repeat that: NY is in the final.

[adam]

RBNY fans dont care if their team plays ugly, they just want to win.

Lets not forget they Bulls are capable of positive play. NY 5-4 LA anyone?

Crap games happen. Lets hope the Final will be attack minded and free flowing on both sides.

[MasterShake]

Camjam, I agree that the play was ugly. but it was effective and thats all that matters, RSL had COUNTLESS opportunities to put NY away..yet they failed to convert them. Dont blame NY for RSL's inability to convert.

NY was playing on the road at altitude with a team full of rookies and benchwarmers..with a possibility of going to overtime...i expected them to play counter attacking football.

Lets not forget we beat DC 4-1,Houston 3-0..twice,LA 5-4 in 2007, Crew 3-1..

ugly games happen all over the world..its just the nature of the game.

[ManicMessiah]

Ah, the Red Bulls didn't earn enough style points to advance! Perhaps we can get rid of this silly 'team who scores the most goals wins' rule, and find something fairer.

I propose the hiring of a panel of judges, whose purpose would be evaluating the aesthetic value of the game played by each team. Combine the score of each judge (based on a 1-10 scale); throw out the high and low scores, and the team with the highest average wins.

[kpugs]

To be honest I have no problem with fellow fans or neutrals saying how lucky RBNY were this weekend. It's the haters I can't stand.

You see, the haters are crybabies. They ONLY care about doing anything they can to whine and moan, and act like children to anything related to RBNY. That's just how it is. It is those same very people who would be taunting the Red Bulls if their own team was in its place, no matter how much luck was involved. The people that can't see both sides of things bother me, but an honest neutral spitting truth does not.

I am biased and don't hide it; at the same time I am able to see both sides of things, no matter what, even if my temper gets the best of me.

Bottom line is they ARE lucky, but what about Chicago ousting the Red Bulls in 2000? On 2 ridiculous blown calls? Is that not luck? But no one cared because it was the MetroStars, literally. We are the most hated team in the league, which is almost crazy given the number of championships held by other clubs such as D.C., Houston, etc. This is our first time past a conference final, and yet it seems like MLS fans hate RBNY/MetroStars with more passion than any of the other 13 teams.

It makes sense, kind of. After all it's "New York," even though it's really Jersey. But it's specifically these unreasonable haters doing it. I have no problem with a rational D.C. fan explaining a point and pointing to luck. I do have a problem with a mindless fan literally making up fantasy stories and posting them publicly because they are nothing more than bitter, whiny little b@tches.

And for the record, that whiny little poosay that posted earlier still hasn't bothered to drop me an email.

Also, Adam, great point. I'd like to toss in as an aside that I disagree with Leitch completely. I HATE with a passion any player stalling for time by faking injury. I hate it. The MetroBulls haven't done much of that over the years, but in this sport I think that's just lucky for me as a fan who hates it. I know everyone does it. But a good ref, as we had this weekend, notes it and that's why we got that crazy 4 minutes.

[J.K]

Red Bull isn't there to entertain, they're there to win games. Look at the players this team is working with. It's win or go home time. You go with a strategy that gives you the best chance to win. That's how you get inferior teams to beat superior teams. A little luck won't hurt either.

[Kaiser]

Ives,

First of all, thanks for calling out Lalas!

If the Red Bulls win the title, do you think people will have the same disdain as they do for that Galaxy team a few years back? Randall touched on it, but no one else has commented on it. I remember LA taking a lot of heat for being undeserving, but they made a run just like New York. Writers (I won't mention names) and fans blasted LA and the playoff format. Will those same people blast the Red Bulls?

[roberto]

why was my last comment removed? I didnt say anything different than what that guy with the absurd user name said... Yeah mastershake!! He even insulted me for my opinion which is true; the possible MLS champ was beat by a "real" team at their giants stadium by 5 or 6 goals I don't remember... My question to all these loosers is what is it that makes you proud of this team? Huh? Give a good friggin answer.... Convince me.
mastershake I feel sorry for you really

[Iammetro]

Roberto, you my friend are and imbecile. There is a reason for a playoff after all. Thats to give all the teams that qualify, and the Red Bulls last time I checked did qualify, a chance to win. The Playoffs is the reward you get for posting the best 8 records in the regular season. Nothing more nothing less. Why not change the format to the Champions League, or the freaking World Cup? Playoffs are for teams that can grind those needed results to win in a short time. Houston and Real could not do, NY found a way. And if you still have a problem with a "lower skilled team" winning a playoff, then Europe needs to get rid of the Euros.

[ManicMessiah]

It was an ugly win no doubt, but at the very least more of the complaints about the Red Bulls not deserving of their win in the semis should certainly be spent criticizing the horrid finishing by Movsissyan et all, no?

[MasterShake]

..roberto you surprise me even more.

you want 1 reason? how about Western Conference Champions !! im sorry that you have such a hard time living in reality where.. you know.. games are won by teams putting balls in the net..not by how "creative" the teams play.

[Iammetro]

Roberto, you my friend are and imbecile. There is a reason for a playoff after all. Thats to give all the teams that qualify, and the Red Bulls last time I checked did qualify, a chance to win. The Playoffs is the reward you get for posting the best 8 records in the regular season. Nothing more nothing less. Why not change the format to the Champions League, or the freaking World Cup? Playoffs are for teams that can grind those needed results to win in a short time. Houston and Real could not do, NY found a way. And if you still have a problem with a "lower skilled team" winning a playoff, then Europe needs to get rid of the Euros.

[NIck]

Beaten by four goals, but that was back in May against a team still fielding Reyna, Altidore, Freeman, Parke, Conway, etc.

On the other hand Chicago was beaten 4-1 at home by FC Dallas (who didn't manage to make the playoffs) less than two months ago. Does that mean Chicago were unworthy? Obviously not.

On a positive note, we were the only team to beat Columbus twice this season. For whatever reason nobody has bothered to mention this ahead of the MLS Cup.

And to Roberto: f*ck off. Maybe you're obsessed with what everybody thinks, but we're not. We're in the f*cking final. We're proud because the young players have stepped up and because we're "real" fans.

[Nick]

When Greece won the Euro's in '04, they bunkered much more than RBNY has in it's last two games. Still I remember the response being overwhelmingly positive.

[4now]

Well said! Great context and analysis!

[Michael F.]

Excellent post, Ives. Luck is part of the game. After 12 years of a lot of bad luck, it's finally time we had some good luck. Who cares how ugly the play was? Love the analogy above of Terry slipping on his PK costing Chelsea the Champions League. Here's to hoping our luck helps carry us through one more game.

[Stavros]

I felt so bad, as a season ticket holder of the Red Bulls for the past 5 years, winning that game. It just felt so undeserved. I hate the argument that since we scored one goal, the Red Bulls deserved it. We all know as soccer players and fans, that soccer could be a very unfair game and yesterday it was just that. Of course it's nice going to the final but I have to admit, RSL, without a doubt, played a much better brand of soccer than the Red Bulls "boot it up the field" play in the second half. It's just frustrating to see that when they have the talent to play a more attractive style.

[Joe A.]

Roberto you obviously have no education about soccer in america, or in general for that matter. Open up your eyes and realize that these are two teams that have never made it to this stage of the playoffs...EVER!!! With your mentality the eurosnobs can also say...Columbus, thats the team that is led by a washed up argentine that couldn't make it in his home country any longer (remember everyone that is not my way of thinking that is roberto's way). Listen I am a diehard redbulls/metros fan from day one so nothing would please me more than to see them win. But to say that columbus has to win for the sake of MLS is wrong.

[Stephen Tychostup]

I have to say this was very lucky, but its a great win nontheless. The RSL fans were rowdy and the field was painted as narrow as a bowling lane to negate Richards and VandenBerg on the width. The fact that the field was that narrow is a crime and RSL took full advantage of home field. Hats off the RBNY for holding on in the 2nd half.

But you cannot see it is not deserved, they had a great road victory last week and this one was pure toughness.

[Tim F.]

I remember a year when DC United's Earnie Stewart was offside by quite a bit but the goal was allowed.

[brett]

there should be no questions of "whether they should be in the finals"... they may have barely scrapped into the playoffs, but they turned it on when it was needed....

a road demolishing of the defending champs, a road win in RSL... i think Redbulls game arrived in just the right time.... would have been no different if the fire beat NE last year....

congrats to the redbulls.... never thought id say this, but for obvious reasons, im hoping CLB wins -.-

[roberto]

still not convinced... And now we lametro and little nick joining in against me.... Snifffff I'm crying. Buaaaa...
look; take your red bulls and your views of football
^***}## you have a real team hahaha to be proud of.. With a huge history of winning hahaha go to joisy to watch them ..enjoy..
I will never support this team and hope ny comes out with another franchise... So enjoy it while it lasts cause after the final its me who will be laughing last... And for the RB its back to reality Mmmuahaha

[Aquaman]

I'm (unfortunately) a big FC Dallas fan, but watching that playoff game the other night was pretty exciting. I only got to see the first half, but anyone who would think that goal was luck is ignoring the textbook near-post/far-post runs Angel and Vanden Bergh were making. It threw off the reactions of both the keeper and the CB to the cross. I thought it was a great play. I can't speak for the rest of the Red Bull's season/playoffs because that was really the first time I watched them in a long time, but it certainly was a good game.

[Adam M.]

Hitting the post isn't unlucky if its just an ordinary missed shot, like the one that nearly tied the game at the death. Hitting the post is only unlucky if the ball ended up on the post rather than in the net due to something unintentional and unexpected. The Red Bulls were outplayed by RSL, however, and they were fortunate (but not lucky) that RSL couldn't find the net, particularly as it seemed their all-in defense strategy was a disaster that was almost always happening.

RBNY is fortunate to be in the finals, not lucky.

[Graham]

RB supports have a inferiority complex

[srfinger]

Agreed luck goes both ways. Theyve got a pretty good run of it this year, but not in the past and we'll see about the future.

One great thing about the RSL game is that at least it wasnt a blown call and it wasnt just one player who couldnt deliver.

RSL has no one to place blame on. They all fought hard. Subs who came on did well. No one blew a sitter, its just none of their chances found the net. Morales, Johnson, Findley, Borchers, Duechar, Morsysian, etc.. all had chances, but couldnt quite do it. It wont be 11 guys thinking about a call by the ref, or 10 guys thinking about a play by one guy. It will be each guy knowing they fought hard, but things didnt go their way.

[Rafael]

As a DC United fan, I know a thing or two about luck. We've been on both sides and at the end of the match what counts is the final score.

Real Salt Lake played well enough to win, but could not put the ball in the back a the net. Which is the difference. Kudos to the NYRB and to Columbus for playing in their first cup title. Good luck to both.

[BlueWhiteLion]

i am happy for NYRB. Long time coming. Here is a tired, but true sports cliche about their run this year: "They did what they had to do." They scored when they needed it, the scores counted, and they went through. JCO is to some degree vindicated. For this year, at least.

Barcelona USA will beat them, though.

[centrejack]

Luck? Skill? Deserving? Ugly football? Cynical football?

These arguments are inane. Skill was the primary factor at play in that game. Finishing is a skill, defending is a skill, passing is a skill. Luck is a myth.

Movsisyan tightened up and missed a sitter, his great skill didn't overcome nerves (and I do think he is a great player). Will Johnson couldn't catch up with that ball and put it into the net, he could only put it onto the post. When he had his shot Morales couldn't tuck it into the corner.

Dane Richards received a beautiful pass from Rojas was wide open heading toward goal, made a bad touch and allowed defenders to catch up with him - his skill cost him a goal. John Wolyniec hit a volley low and to the near post that Rimando saved (barely) if he had hit it to the upper corner, Rimando would have needed even better skill to stop it.

See where I am going with this?

Tactically, did I like the way New York played in the second half? No, but it is something you see all over the world and it can be effective. Bunker and play counterattack sometimes it works. Look at Concacaf, 3/4 of the teams in the region play that way against the US. The real test of a team is there ability to break down a bunkering defense. That is one of the reasons that the US scores so many goals off set plays in qualifying.

Osorio chose that as the tactic and ask the team to execute the strategy in the second half. They executed the strategy and prevented RSL from scoring. Was it pretty? No. Is the tactic indicative of the skill level of the team? No. If you were ahead 1-0 and had a chance to go the the final and win your first trophy would you do it too? Why couldn't they string together a few passes to relieve pressure - because they didn't want too. They wanted to try to play safe and boot it out. Was the Red Bulls winning goal lucky? Absolutely NOT.

[Mr Fish]

The more that "fans" say that RBNY doesn't deserve to be in the final, the better for NY!

Those that believe that NY shouldn't be in the postseason should send their comments to Don Garber. NY didn't make the rules.

All the Red Bulls have done is beat the two-time champs, and survive another strong team on the road.

Style points don't win championships. Outscoring your opponent does.

If Columbus wins on Sunday, they'll deserve to be called champions. JUST LIKE NEW YORK.

[Athan]

I agree they deserve to be there, but it is so hard to root for a team that plays like my high school JV team. Watching them gives me memories of all the unknowledgeable soccer parents at my high school games yell 'boot it' everytime the ball came near their son! I mean it was pretty bad. They bypassed the midfield on just about every play! Poor Angel was just running around aimlessly because the ball never once came to his feet!

[CPTKevin]

RSL fans should be ashamed of the actions of a few "idiots" that threw the smoke pellets (or whatever they were) on the field during the run of play. The Referees of that game should all be re-read the Laws of the Game and Advice to Referees on the Laws of the Game. When an outside object enters the field of play, especially one that has the potential to be dangerous and truly interferes with play, the referee MUST STOP play and restart with a dropped ball. I'm not talking the stupid streamers here either, although they do have the potential to interfer with play by causing a player to trip. Shame on the referee for letting play continue prior to clearing that garbage off the field.

[Jim]

I think what gets lost, is how poor of a game it was from supposedly two of the best teams in MLS (conference championship, right?). There was surely excitement...however, the poor display of soccer was on full display. From the inept finishing, on both sides (but mostly from RSL), to seeing a professional team like RBNY consistently kick the ball long with 25 minutes left in the game...simply showed me how far MLS has to go. I understand MLS is not the EPL, but I did expect more from two conference championship clubs.

[Aguinaga]

The sweetness of this victory I cannot begin to express in words, as I've followed this Metro/RB soap opera since 1996, often numb, most years in a bitter, degraded, miserable silence. In the run-up to the most important game of Metro history, I'll try to abstract it a bit for my own sake, as I see the game now...

The critics will critique. The haters will hate. The whiners will whine. The commentators will try to give insight and words to the indescribable: the anxiety and anticipation we feel as we hope, wait, and silently pray for our teams to score. In the aftermath, the reporters will do their best to inform, encapsulate, analyze, celebrate, or condemn the last match. Luck will be both celebrated and cursed. The refs will be blamed no matter what they do. The purists will claim a stake on higher ground but will become realists when their teams win. The poseurs and fair weather fans will claim eternal allegiance at the first sight of victory. And the true hinchas will rejoice it all as if the Almighty himself parted the November clouds and declared 'let there be euphoria' from way on up... This is the true beauty of this sport we love, not only the depths of the contradictions within it (which mirror our own), but the fervor with which we live them. This game is the only one to me that is perennial artwork in flux, a chess game that is forever changing boards, strategies, and adversaries... and it will always be up to the beholder to endlessly judge, proclaim, opinionate, celebrate, and suffer. This is why we love this sport.

[Heffe]

Here is to hoping that RSL will go out and get us our version of JPA...somebody who can score the clutch goal when needed. Movsisyan turned it on late, but we have not had a consistent scorer. Also, hopefully Espindola can stay healthy, because when he was playing, he was by far the most dangerous player on the field.

[brittany]

i just cant wait for sunday.

lets hope the glass slipper fits one more time!

[Tim K]

Red Bull did not deserve to be in the playoffs PERIOD!!!!!!!! they had a losing record!!!!

outside of that they have played well the last three games.. none the less this will always have an astrix next to it for me.

[BeautifulGame]

Since they were up 1-0, Osorio decided to spend the rest of the game bunkering down and trying to stop RSL from scoring. Somehow, they absorbed all that was thrown at them and the Bulls won.

If the Bulls were either losing or tied (instead of being up 1-0) they would have played differently. They would have been trying to possess the ball and would have been looking to score.

I'm a Bulls fan, and am very happy to see my team in the final. Next up, the Crew - a quality side that I hope we beat.

Hats off to RSL. You gave it your best shot - you played hard and you played well.

[JVC-RSL]

Here's where I have a problem with the Red Bulls win on Saturday. (I was there) Chris Leech and others faking multiple injuries that ate up at least 6 minutes of precious time throughout the second half. Then the fourth official awarding 4 minutes of stoppage time despite multiple substitutions and bookings on top of all the injury faking. The ref finally gave Leech a yellow for wasting more time in added time with another "injury."

If you are going to play ugly, that's fine, but get off your butts, stop rolling around like you've been shot in the leg and play the d*** game. It was pathetic. It wasn't just bad luck that kept RSL from getting the equalizer, it was what some people would refer to as "gamesmanship." I call it cowardice.

[SonicDeathMonkey]

Ives, I'm surprised you didn't mention the Angel concussion saga during last years playoffs as part of the bad run of luck. From what I saw, the RedBulls gave the Revs all they could handle in that game.

@Darwin
Don't say the word "posts" for awhile...Salt Lake fans are still a bit sensitive. :)

[PotomacBoater]

As a devoted DC Utd fan, let me say - Of course, luck played a role here.

Some will call it luck - others call it opportunity. In the end, fortune favors the prepared.

Congrats to the RedBull and Crew for both taking advantage of their opportunities and their luck to arrive at the final.

[sugarfreeredbull]

Those still hating or doubting that the Bulls should not have been in the playoffs to begin with. Why is it that the Pittsburgh Steelers won the Super Bowl in 2006 as the worst team with the worst record and played an awful game against Seattle yet no one probably has any issues with that? It's simple, the Bulls are the lowest seed and yet we have cries of "it's so unfair." Y'know what's unfair, the fact that teams who are top in the league think they deserve a "W" without having to play 90 minutes of football. If MLS moved to a single table and the top 8 teams played each other it would be 1 vs. 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5. Now certainly there would be lower ranked teams beating higher ranked teams. Upsets would happen. This is what makes the playoffs exciting. Think of it in terms of the group stages of big tournaments. Sure, better teams get past the first stage but there are still NO GUARANTEES. I mean, Spain was not guaranteed to win Euro 2006. And look who won 2002, GREECE! They weren't even picked by the "experts." So shut up and enjoy the final and the "unknowns" that exist in playoff sports. That's what makes it exciting. If you want a guaranteed outcome then start watching WWE.

[sugarfreeredbull]

And the comment on "boot the ball" I wonder how many on this board still play the beautiful game in their adult age. I'm sure a few do but I'm sure a lot don't or never have. The reason for the "boot the ball" tactic was simple. Break up the momentum or chemistry that RSL was trying to build. It's not a great strategy and it leads to ugly football but it is one that works. "When in doubt, kick it out" is how the old saying goes. Teams do it to regain their shape and slow down the pace of the game. Again, if you're running a lot in your own half because you're in a defensive shell, you get tired and booting the ball simply becomes a way to regain composure to prepare for the next onslaught. Again, it's a strategy that may have backfired on Osorio and the Bulls but it's still a strategy that they played and it happened to work. Will they do this next week? Probably not. I'm sure Osorio and crew played a 4-5-1 toward the end because they were looking to get out of there with a win. I'd love to see more attacking soccer with flair but it takes an incredible amount of endurance and stamina. And maybe Osorio knows something more about his players than we do.

[eric]

Dave van den Bergh:
“It was ugly, it was lucky, but with this franchise we're going to have to take it any way it comes”

[Brokenbil]

I think it can be argued that luck plays a role every year in the MLS playoffs. In fact, I think the Red Bulls current playoff success is as lucky as Houston's back-to-back Cup wins. As with other American professional sports, there is the regular season and the playoffs. Each team starts from scratch once they qualify for the playoffs and any team can win, especially in an evenly-matched league like MLS. How many other sports leagues can count every team still eligible for the playoffs going into the final week of the regular season? Until the MLS champion is determined by the Supporters Shield alone, we will continue to see "luck" play a role in MLS.

[Rich Bull NJNY]

The Red Bulls sscored a goal, Real did not. There's your game. The winner advances, right? They won, they go to the Final, and deservedly so. End of story. Yes we HAVE endured alot of pain over 12 years. DIE HARD fans have been dying pretty hard indeed. Not the prettiest game? No kidding! Bulls haven't had a fantastic midfielder in forever, but at least they're finally playing as a team, and nobody is making any huge mistakes. Historically they have always beaten themselves, defensive breakdowns and whatnot, but no more. We played well enough to win, while unfortunately Houston and RSL did not. **The only thing that has remained consistent in this league since it's inception, and remains true to this day, is the God-Awful refereeing. Wow they are clue-less. Where do they find these guys?? Some of those calls, Christ! I just hope it's a different guy for the final.

[Matt]

For any RSL fans who whine I'd say, your team didn't get it done, they lost, they deserve to lose. On the other hand, on the RB side, I've got to think you want to go with a different strategy than to give the other team an extraordinary number of chances and depend on Cepero and the post to keep the sheet clean.

I've seen two halves of RBNY playoff soccer - 2nd half in Houston, and second half Saturday, and while RBNY didn't give up a score in either, they could easily have allowed 7 or 8 with the way they defended - and don't forget some recent blowout losses by the team.

Luck was getting into the playoffs after DC hit the post twice and crossbar once in the final game.

[MasterShake]

For those still saying that NY didnt "deserve" to be in the playoffs...have a look at RSL record will ya?

As for Leitch...you wanna talk about gamesmanship..then mention Yuriy's blatant dive in the penalty area...

[sugarfreeredbull]

Players fall down and lay there in every league around the world. It happened countless amount of times during both the Euros and World Cup. Players now that it takes time of the clock. It's a strategy. I'm not saying it's a good one but if you notice Leitch got a yellow and he hobbled for the remainder of the match. The ref needs to step in and get those guys off the pitch if they want the game to continue. But until FIFA makes some universal rule, sorry, you're going to see this in every league from MLS to Premier to Serie A, etc.

[luis]

Anyone who thnks Red bulls are lucky STAND ONE NOW, Exactly if the red scum win this championship, this will no doubt be the worst championship team ever. Surpassing LA's 2005 championship team. 2 Druggies getting banned (no droped points for the team) 3 posts that DC hits against columbus to keep red bulls in the playoffs. Getting owned by Houston, yet somehow score a 3-0 game after numerous chances created by the dynamo. 3 posts hit by RSL to send the red bulls to MLS cup. LUCK IS CLEARLY ON THERE SIDE, Qhile I was always a believer that one makes his own luck, I now am against that believe. Red bulls have show nothing spectacular throughtout the year, got smacked against chicago in there win/or die game, and looked like // against the houston and RSL and still get a victory. Are they the worst team in the league NO, that goes to Toronto. ARE THEY the luckiest team in the league CLEARLY.

2008 Championship for NY=Fluke

I guess every dog does have its day.

[sublicon]

When everyone is hating on you for your success, you know you're done something right.

[martha in miami]

Great pic...those Colombians always make me feel warm and fuzzy inside! This is quite a cinderella story which is great for MLS in its short history. You people need big picture thinking abilities...a 1.1, 3.0, 1.0 shows versatility and strategy, mixed with grit and fortitude. We make our own luck every day!!!