Altidore and Adu headline 20-man USA roster for Guatemala qualifier

                                                               Photo by ISIphotos.com

Jozy Altidore, Kenny Cooper and Freddy Adu headline a roster of 20 players called in for Wednesday's World Cup qualifier against Guatemala at Dick's Sporting Goods Park.

Here is the squad:

GOALKEEPERS: Brad Guzan, Troy Perkins, Matt Pickens

DEFENDERS: Jonathan Bornstein, Sean Franklin, Cory Gibbs, Clarence Goodson, Drew Moor, Michael Parkhurst

MIDFIELDERS: Freddy Adu, Davy Arnaud, Ricardo Clark, Sacha Kljestan, Pablo Mastroeni, John Thorrington

FORWARDS: Jozy Altidore, Conor Casey, Brian Ching, Kenny Cooper, Chris Rolfe

Some of the new faces include MLS rookie of the year Sean Franklin, Chicago Fire midfielder John Torrington and Mr. Fan Favorite himself, Kenny Cooper.

Colorado striker Conor Casey also gets a well-earned nod after finishing the MLS season strongly. Casey and Rapids teammate Cory Gibbs join Pablo Mastroeni in the contingent of Colorado players who could play in front of their home fans.

What do you think of this group? Who are you looking forward to see play? We'll save lineup projections for Monday. For now just share your thoughts on the roster in the comments section below.

Comments

[zach]

woohoo!

[Justin]

I'm excited to see that Davy Arnaud got the call.

[Isaac]

Where is Torres? we're missing a left footed midfielder other than adu....maybe he'll play on the wing.

[Midfielder4Life]

My guess.....

Altidore

Adu
Kljestan Rolfe
Clark Mastroeni

Bornstein Franklin
Parkhurst Gibbs

Guzan

Tough group to pick from...
Strong performances from MLS players this season, plus factoring the Euro crop

[eric]

Hopefully it's like the classic Public Enemy jam - 'The B Side Wins Again'. Just give me Jozy and Freddy, and lets start building the future.

Where does Goodson play. Stupid bio pages give me his favorite foods and music, but not minor details like center, left, or right defender. Reason I ask is I'd love to see a Drew Moor-less lineup, that guy has no future as an international.

Also, can't we have a real winger on the team???

[AlohaDan]

Well two will be cut. Guessing a keeper and one field player.
Probably one called in just to get camp oriented, kind of BBs method.

Or possibly Chinger. Looking at the whole squad I wonder if Ching is there soley to help out with BBs instruction points. He's clearly the most experienced. Except for Guzan the other players don't come close to Ching's international time. Certainly between Altidore, Cooper, Casey, and Rolfe there are enough fwds.

[Isaac]

Something like this maybe:

------------Altidore---Cooper--------------

---Adu----------------------------Arnaud---

-----------Mastroeni---Kljestan------------

--Bornstein--Goodson--Parkhurst--Franklin--

------------------Guzan--------------------

Alot Adu's good moments come when he's out on the wing like up against Brazil at the U-20 tournament. Even against Holland in the olympics when he and Holden switched spots. Donovan is our playmaker guys, Adu can replace him when needed but I think Adu might do better on the wing. He finds places where his tiny body and great skill can get him. I say adu on the wing.

[BFBS]

Conor Casey has the quality, if not the production, to be part of the national team picture. There are no clear omissions among the call-ups, especially if end of domestic season is a requirement. It would have been nice to see Charlie Davies again, though, if only for the entertainment value.

[Isaac]

AlohaDan,

Chings season is over right now and I think keeping him in shape for the Hexagonagal might be BB's plan. Then again maybe he's not worried about Ching. He's a veteran and understands how to keep himself fit now. What to do....

[garbaggio]

Goodson plays central defense.

Whoever starts in defense (my guess would be Moor, Parkhurst, Gibbs or Goodson, and Bornstein) it will be a back 4 that doesn't have much experience playing together. My fear is that would lead Bradley to start 2 dmids (both Clark and Mastroeni?) to relieve pressure on them and that could stifle any creativity in our attack.

Anyway, Guatemala should be pleased with this list of US callups but, even so, their chances of advancing to the Hex are muy, muy, muy pobre...

[CD]

I wasn't too excited about this match but now I am. It will be nice to see this new lineup and see what they can do.

Hopefully Sean Franklin won't get the MLS rookie of the year curse after he goes to USMNT camp like it seems happened to Edu. I think Bradley fit Edu with some cement boots.

[Isaac]

back four somehting like this maybe even

--Bornstein--Moor--Parkhurst--Franklin--

Then again maybe Franklin and Moor could switch and Moor could give us one of those kickass crosses again.....and then lose Carlos Ruiz on a free kick...Pablo has to start because his marking ability is pretty good on set pieces and it will allow Ruiz no space on that sort of thing.

[cbr]

i am very interested to see what Franklin can do playing his natural RB position

[Jason]

I echo Isaac:
Where is Torres?

Would love for someone to post some rumor/speculation/information why he is missing from this group.

Maybe he is too offensive minded.

[eric]

You stole my phrase, CD - cement boots. And no one wears 'em like Conner Casey wears 'em. Sorry, he's tough enough, but WAY too slow after several major knee surgeries to ever be our guy. Even Ching could smoke him in a footrace, which I would love to watch.

--Bornstein--Gibbs--Parkhurst--Franklin--
works for me on the backline, and we know BB is going to give major defensive cover for Adu... M4L might have the rest...

[Isaac]

Ok how about this

--Bornstein--Goodson--Mastroeni--Moor--

Actually thats probably a likely back four...

[Ryan]

i'd like to see gibbs again

[Isaac]

The one thing i fear absolutely the most is seeing Bornstein on the left wing and Gibbs as a left back. It makes me shudder to think what that Loco Rodriguez kid could do to that left side. Heath Pearce got abused that day....whats gonna happen to little scrawny Jonny Bornstein?

[eric]

We're all such whiners - we got him, but no one's called for the Cooper start yet! Sadly, I don't know if you could get BB to start Adu in a 4-4-2 which would put both Jozy and Cooper on the field.

I totally forgot about Torres, but really wish he were included. Hopefully being left off is a sign of respect to Pachuca, that we're not wasting a call up on a meaningless game, and playing with guys who wouldn't normally be in camp. But I think it would have been valuable to let Torres and Kljestan compete directly head to head.

[mikeK]

Torres is probably the same place Bradley is- In the middle of a solid amount of playing time with their club. Most of this crop are European players not seeing much action, or MLS players who's season is over.

[Isaac]

Eric,

I doubt the fight will be between Torres in and Kljestan. Torres really wont be a central midfielder in my opinion. Kljestan has sealed his spot there for a while at the least. Rather, Adu and Torres might skirmish with eachother for playing time in that position.

[Murphy]

Arnaud should not be in the national team picture.

[Bryan]

My prediction:

----Cooper-----Altidore----
---------------------------
---Klestjan-----Adu--------
---------------------------
---Clark--------Pablo------
-Bornstein-Parkhurst-Franklin-Moor
-------Guzan---------------

[Isaac]

I know we said wait until Monday for lineups but this one just came to me.

-------------Altidore---Cooper-------------

----Adu----Mastroeni---Clark----Kljestan---

--Bornstein--Goodson--Parkhurst--Franklin--

------------------Guzan--------------------

[justin]

altidore ching
adu mastroeni thorrington Kljestan
bornstein franklin parkhurst goodson
guzan

[Isaac]

DAMN YOU BRYAN....you stole mine...

[MasterShake]

wait.somebody remind me..where did Jozy Altidore get his professional soccer career going? i kind of forgot..

[Freddy]

NO REAL OPTIONS AT LEFT WING.

[Ironbound]

Where is Charlie Davies? That guy that scored 14 goals...lol did I spell his name wrong? His season was just over.

[mikeK]

MasterShake- He got his career going playing negative soccer in New York. Even though he's billed as a forward for the Red Bull, he played what's defense in real life because New York turtles all the time.

Villareal also made an offer for the left post, but the Metro are holding off for more money.

=D

[eric]

Davies got his tonsils removed, or something equivalent.

This team could use him, lacks a true speedster.

[Jamie Z.]

Davies got his tonsils removed, or something equivalent.

This team could use him, lacks a true speedster.

Posted by: eric | November 16, 2008 at 11:11 PM
_____________________________________________

You're absolutely right about Davies having his tonsils out, but tell me -- what is equivalent to having one's tonsils out?

[Geoff S.]

Do people not remember how good Gibbs was leading up to 06? With BB's history of sticking with veterans, I think we see a line-up like this:

------Ching----Cooper(altidore)------------

--Adu----------------------------Sasha K.--------------------Rico-------------------------------------Pablo M.-------------------

--Johny B.---Gibbs---Mikey P.---Drew M.----

-------------------Guzan-------------------

[Geoff S.]

should be Rico and Pablo as D center mids with Adu and sash on the wings . . .you guys know the drill by now!

[MasterShake]

mikeK - that was hysterical ! :D

[Midfielder4Life]

Hard to call. It all depends on what BB uses for a formation. Last few games, its been a 4-5-1, single striker. With the decent crop and variety of different styles of strikers he has brought into camp, it would be a waste to deploy one person up top. I think its time to try out a new target forward ahead of South Africa....

[bond]

where's marvell wynne?

[Nic D "The Texas 2 Stepper"]

where's marvell wynne?

Posted by: bond | November 17, 2008 at 12:03 AM
***************************

Ditto!

[Sinter]

------------------Guzan------------------
--Franklin--Parkhurst--Gibbs--Bornstein--
--------Mastro------------Clark----------
----Kljestan------------------Adu--------
-------Altidore-----------Ching----------

[here we go again]

i yelled as loud as anybody at bob bradley for including youth in his rosters. this roster is good in the sense that it gets some young guys into camp, but it just seems like another way to justify bob's current scheme. no one (at least no one rational) was asking for bob to play a full team of youngins, instead i just wanted to see maybe 3 or 4 young guys brought into camp to gain some experience. maybe see wynne over hejduk, altidore over ching, freddy coming in as a 60th minute sub. this is an incredibly young roster and when they don't crush guatemala everyone will say this is proof that the veterans are the best. i like the idea of fielding a roster of only young guys, but i dont like the undeserved confidence and justification it will give to bob bradley's and others out there who consider the US as a current favorite to advance out of the group stages of the world cup.

[here we go again]

correction - "i yelled as loud as anybody at bob bradley for NOT including youth in his rosters..."

[bubba]

Looks like a good crop of players were brought in for this game and it will be interesting to see what line up BB comes up with. It seems like BB will rely on the experience of Mastroeni, Gibbs and yes Ching on this one. Ching did have one of the better performances when USA faced Guatemala in Guatemala and as we all have seen playing them we need a little experience on our side. To pull of the victory, because they definitely can pull this off with this team, the US is going to want to keep their cool, control the game, and not buy into the shenanigan's that Guatemala incorporates into their game.

Altidore Ching
Adu Clark Mastroeni Klejstan
Bornstein Gibbs Parkhurst Franklin
Guzan

Wednesday...

[Goalscorer24]

I can live with this callup. Glad to see Cooper finally. Great to see a totally different back line, and glad that Altidore and Adu are there. Certainly Bradley is widening the potential pool of players bigger then Arena ever did. I hope this team shows well.

[Carlo]

I'm excited to see how the MLS guys do in a International game. I want to see Jozy, Freddy, and Sacha step up and go big too. My only complaint would be the face that Marvell Wynne should be on this list of young guns.

[Fire_Juve10]

Good for Johnny Thorrington. Hope he gets some minutes.

[Eric Anderson]

What I want to see

--------Altidore-Rolfe----------
----------------Adu-------------
-----Kljestan----Thorrington-----
-------------Mastroeni------------
Bornstein-Gibbs-Parkhurst-Franklin
--------------Guzan---------------

What I expect to see

------------Ching-Adu-------------
Bornstein-Clark-Mastroeni-Kljestan
Gibbs----Parkhurst--Goodson----Moor
---------------Guzan---------------

[Isaac]

------------Altidore---Cooper-----------------

--Adu-------------------------------Kljestan--

-----------MAstroeni---Clark------------------

--Bornstein---Goodson---Parkhurst---Franklin--

--------------------Guzan---------------------

A possible lineup but really ya know who might have actually been nice to see this game? Bobby Convey. I want to see him back in form and an option, or atleasta back up plan.

[Brant]

Maybe it's just me, but this looks like a "reward" call-up for a decent domestic season for a lot of guys. We don't need this game, so BB is trying to be the 'nice guy' and bring in a lot of guys to put on a US shirt without really expecting any of them to be in his long-term plans (Arnaud, Casey, Gibbs, Thorrington).

I'm disappointed to not see Davies, but BB knows he's going to be in the mix, and if Casey bumps Davies so BB can give him a game for the USMNT in front of his home fans, I have no problem with that at all.

The only problem with that theory is that it means Cooper may be one of the 'reward' guys who got called up for having a good year, but being called in with this group means he may not be a part of the long-term plans.

[Zach D.]

Good to see Gibbs back with the Nats. My only hope is that we don't go with the awful 4-5-1. I really wish the Nats could go with a 3-5-2 but thats just wishful thinking!

[Tim F.]

Brad Guzan in goal

Jonathan Bornstein, Cory Gibbs, Clarence Goodson and Drew Moor in defense

Freddy Adu, Ricardo Clark, Sacha Kljestan, John Thorrington in the midfield

Jozy Altidore and Conor Casey up top with Chris Rolfe as a sub

[Aquaman]

I'm just glad to see Bradley mixing it up with the call-ups FINALLY. Hopefully he'll be willing to mix it up with the formation too, because I think Altidore paired with another striker would be a fantastic look (especially seeing that 3 of the other 4 strikers are big guys that Altidore could run off of). Hopefully the fact that he brought in five strikers implies he'll be using more of them.

[brett]

tim f- theres no way casey starts over cooper...

------jozy------cooper-------
adu-------kljestan-------thor
----------Mastro------------
Born-gibbs-parkhurst-franklin
---------guzan---------------

BB will start people he knows....adu at left mid is a chance, but i think a mid including Adu Klejstan and Thor would be solid enough... Mastro has the exp.... bornstein used to be a regular with Bob both club and country... parkhurst is our best CB option, so an obvious pick...Cooper will only get the start assuming Adu is pushed back into the mid or wing....

Rolfe could come in at right mid or up top
Ching could start up top or come in as a sub
clark could start at dmid or as a sub

[johncarl]

Where's Chad Marshall?
Why does an unassigned goalkeeper (Pickens) and a guy in the Norwegian league (Perkins) get called up over MLS studs like Matt Reis, Jon Busch, and Will Hesmer?

[RapidsMan]

I don't see why Casey gets a nod for scoring 9 goals minus his pk's. The guy has cement feet, I hope this off-season he can drop the weight and get a bit of speed and stamina back.

---------Altidore-------
-----------------Cooper------
--------Adu-----------Kljestan
------------Pab's---Rico-----
Bornstein--Goodson--Parkhurst-Franklin--

--------------------Guzan------------------

[Mark]

Psyched Casey is getting the call. I truly hope he can finally stay healthy, as he can be the true target forward on this team.

[NOLA soccer fan]

well this makes for an interesting game

[Geoff S.]

here we go again,
Whether BB plays a full team of youngsters all at once or incorporates 3-4 into the team he used to advance to the hexagonal doesn't matter. Either way he accomplishes the same thing. You're right in thinking that only a handful (3-4 maybe a couple more) have a legitimate shot at making the 2010 roster, but fielding a team of almost all new faces especially in a game that is so crucial to Guat. is a more efficient way to evaluate players. Let the experienced players (most of whom are in the middle of important seasons) rest, and I tink we'll see a slower inclusion of the young guys like you suggested in the next round.

[kco]

START DAVY ARNAUD!

[northzax]

Johncarl: Busch is too small, Reis is too old (and banged up I think) and Hesmer's hot other plans this week.

[Angel]

I like it, it give a different face of the USNMT. How many time we want to give new players a chance to get a call for the USA team. I know this is not the actually The A-Team but it can give a look at some new players. Like Casey, Cooper, Franklin, Rolfe, Arnaud, goodson, and Welcome back Gibbs. We now had look at Davis, Orozco, Torres, and I hope we get to see more new faces, WOW we are going to scare some of the team in our Area because the USA can Make at least Two or Three competative National Team. I'm excited to see this team. Especially having Altidore and Cooper at front and Adu in the middle guiding the attack..GO USA!!!

[zach]

woohoo!

[Brant]

@JohnCarl, who said "Where's Chad Marshall?"

Uh.... prepping for a pretty big game in LA this weekend.

[garbaggio]

Pachuca's Paco Torres did not play this weekend as his team tied their game against Atlas and wound up being eliminated from playoff qualification on the last weekend of the Mexican regular season.

Don't know whether Torres has a minor injury,was suspended or whether it was the coach's decision not to play him. When the list of players for the Guatemala game was announced, Pachuca had not yet been eliminated - so it's possible Bradley left Torres off the list so he could train with his club team for playoffs. Pachuca still has the World Club Championship next month in Japan.

8 teams make the playoffs into Mexico's postseason "Liguilla". Interestingy, the other Paco Torres from Santos was called up by Sven for Mexico's friendly against Ecuador last week.

[jpc]

Colin Clark
Colin Clark
Colin Clark
Should be there in the midfield

[PanchoMiguelMoralesdeConejo]

What we'll see:
----Altidore-----Ching-
Adu-----------------------Kljestan
------------Pablo---Rico-----
Bornstein--Goodson--Parkhurst---Moore--

--------------------Guzan------------------

What I'd like to see:
---Altidore-----Ching-
-----------Cooper------
-----Adu-----------Kljestan
------------Pablo------
Bornstein--Goodson--Parkhurst-Franklin--

--------------------Guzan------------------

This lineup would make for some entertaining fooootballl....if some scary moments in the back.

[Heffe]

It is slightly disappointing that Chris Seitz is not getting any call ups anymore, especially with this kind of an experimental squad.

[BlueWhiteLion]

let's see if Casey can work his way back on to the team. I am surprised Mastroeni did not go overseas.

I am interested in seeing Adu and Altidore attempt to work magic together.

[beckster]

Very few MLS players can handle the technical skills and speed requirements of the international game. They aren't always tested in Concacaf which is a relatively weak league. Bradley has been "trying out" players for 2 years. Time's up. He should be focused on getting the players who realistically will vie for spots in 2010 on the field. This isn't the team and they are going to have difficulty with Guatamala.

[brett]

northzax - you should know by this season alone, that size has NOTHING to do with Busch's ability of playing GK....

Busch may be short by GK standards, but he's proven again and again he's a quality GK....

however, i would agree with your assesment on Reis, and lump Busch into the same description... Busch is simply getting up their in age... guzan will start and play the full game, while pickens and perkins will simply add depth and grow through training...

[brett]

beckster - so you are saying that he should have brought in the full a-squad?? i dont agree with your statement in the slightest...

time is never up on trying new faces.... im positive Bradley has a starting XI in his mind he aims to continue to play and call up, but in a qualifier (having already qualified) game why not bring up some possible players who have had quality seasons with their respected teams?? why continue to call up the same batch despite the fact that they are currently in the middle of their seasons abroad??

[Raghu]

Ching---------Altidore
------------Adu
-----Klestan
Clark----------Mastro
Bornstein ---- Gibbs--Parkhurst---Franklin
------------Guzan---------------

Expect to see Moor start over Franklin (but I want to see Franklin at this level)
Love that Gibbs is slowly coming back.
Expect Cooper to be subbed in up top.
Wish Wynne was playing. Won't be surprised if Jozy starts on the bench and BB opts for a 4-5-1. with Rolfe, Adu, Clark, Mastro, Sascha to start with Ching as the lone forward.

I hope not though.
And welcome back Conor Casey. Good to see you playing with the Nats again.

[northzax]

Brett:

sure, Busch is a good MLS keeper, but size does matter in the international game. why waste a camp spot on a 32 year old guy with no real international experience (1 senior cap, 5 youth caps) who is too small for the international game, when you can give them to a 26 and 27 year old with brighter futures? Guzan is the guy, Perkins is the backup, Pickens won't be in uniform.

[kswiss]

Not too many complaints about the roster. I would have loved to see Szetela, but I can understand that Bradley didn't want to call in anybody getting consistent time in Europe.

[kswiss]

I'm interested to see how the back line handles Guatemala, and also who gets the start on the left. Of course it depends on the formation, but I think Kljestan is the best option on the left, in this lineup. He can at least give more defensive help on Rodriguez than Adu will.

It's hard to imagine Bradley stick to the 4-5-1 after calling in 5 forwards, but with the inexperienced back line, you never know. I think Altidore and Ching start up top, with Cooper replacing Ching in the second half. Rolfe's been on fire though, so he might see some time too, maybe in right midfield.

[CO_Soccer_FAN]

I bought the tickets two months ago with hopes to see Altidore, Adu and a few others play so I was a little disappointed to say the least when the USMNT roster first came out.

I'm really pumped now that Altidore and Adu have been added to the roster and can't wait to watch the game. The weather in Denver is unseasonably warm this week so its just keeps getting better by the minute. Go USA!

[James]

I like the selections of Altidore, Adu, Franklin and Parkhurst. But how about Chris Tierney and Joe Cannon. I know Tierney does not have much experience but that doesn't mean you don't want him on the national team. He has good offensive skills, is fast and might just be the best LB USA has at the moment. and Joe Cannon should be strongly considered as a back-up to Howard. I would also give Torres another start.

[beckster]

Brett,
Not saying they should bring in the A squad at all. Bring in all the European players who aren't playing to keep them in form - they are a cut above (Beasley, Edu, Adu, Jozy, Pearce, Convey etc; The European players who are playing but haven't had much of a shot (Demeritt, Hahamann etc) and the MLS players who really have a shot at this (Sacha,and the forwards). Not suggesting that Gouch, Boca, Howard, Donovan, Dolo, Bradley etc be brought in.

[sawatsky]

James- Slow down there on Tierney. I'm all for the success of Nobles grads, but come on, best American LB? Um, talk to me when you can beat out Jay Heaps.

Brant- I don't think Cooper should be considered as "experimental" as some of the newbies called in this time. Remember (no one seems to) that BB tried to call in Cooper last time and Cooper turned him down! So it's not like BB is just now getting around to calling him in.

[sawatsky]

Last week Colorado fans were on here saying that Gibbs had not looked very good this season, yet most people on this thread have penciled him as a starting CB. What gives?

Maybe more like:
Bornstein-Goodson-Parky-Franklin

[Jason]

As per usual with a BB lineup, we are overstocked at one position, and woefully short at another.

For me, we don't have a natural LM palyer, and only one natural LB. And are overloaded at F and RM. Let's take a look.

Defense: Decent job, thin at LB.
LB: Bornstein, Gibbs
RB: Moor, Franklin
CB: Parkhurst, Goodson, Gibbs, Franklin

Franklin can play almost anywhere, and Gibbs could play left in extremis, or could, can he still?

Midfield: No one at LM, Overload at RM.

DM: Mastroeni, Clark
CM: Clark, Kljestan, Thorington
AM: Kljestan, Adu
RM: Arnaud, Kljestan, Rolfe, Thorington
LM: Adu

Forwards:
Target: Ching, Casey, Altidore, Cooper.
Withdrawn: Adu, Rolfe, Altidore, Cooper.

[Brant]

sawatsky - I wasn't suggesting that Cooper was an 'experimental' or 'reward' pick. I was noting that if BB lumped him into that category, where I personally would place Arnaud, Casey, and Thorrington, that it doesn't bode well for Cooper's long-term USMNT future. I hope it doesn't, tho.

[Rich Bull NJNY]

What time's the game and what channel?

[brett]

northzax - i already pointed that his age is my whole problem with bringing up the likes of Reis or Busch.....

Pickens has a bright future?? as a fire fan i would normally agree with that, but seeing as he's bounced all around europe for the past year, i dont see that being accurate.... i would have rather had brought in Seitz or Westberg... but i understand your point, i was merely defending Busch's ability at playing GK....

[brett]

CO_Soccer_FAN - it wasnt a roster, it was a training camp... it was stated MANY times that only a number from that camp would possibly be brought up....

[mo]

Kickoff at Dick’s Sporting Goods Park for the USA’s first-ever World Cup qualifier in the state of Colorado is set for 6 p.m. MT, and the match will be shown live on ESPN Classic and Galavision.

[brett]

beckster - while i understand your point, i will say all the players you've mentioned are either starters with the nats or have been capped numerous times in the past year... BB is not bringing in players just to keep them fit, thats what the club is suppose to do.... BB is bringing in some players who've had a good season, and are now in their off season...

there is nothing wrong with him giving intl' exp. to deepen our pool.... we do not need to see Beasley, Edu, Pearce, etc... i would like to see some randoms get their shot for a change... we've had enough of the same over and over again this year... i for one am welcoming the new blood.... perhaps one of the MLS'ers you are counting out shines and has a healthy start to improving his stance on his depth....