Albert Pujols joining St. Louis MLS expansion ownership group

The St. Louis MLS expansion bid is set to receive a boost that could be the first step to putting the midwestern City over the top in its quest for an MLS franchise.

St. Louis Cardinals star and recently-named National League MVP Albert Pujols is set to join the St. Louis MLS expansion bid, a high-ranking official in the St. Louis expansion group, St. Louis Soccer United, told SBI on Tuesday.

St. Louis is hoping to be one of two expansion cities added in 2011 and is one of seven finalists for the expansion slots. The addition of Pujols is a major coup and, for my money, makes St. Louis a front-runner for an expansion slot. With a stadium deal already in place in the St. Louis suburb of Collinsville, the addition of Pujols bolsters what had been considered the lone weakness in the St. Louis bid, which is a strong and diverse ownership group. In fact, sources within the group have told SBI that Pujols is one of three new investors set to be revealed in the coming weeks.

What do you think of the news? Does this make St. Louis the flat-out front-runner? Think Pujols joining the group won't make much of a difference?

Share your thoughts below.

Comments

[WTF]

As long as they don't name the expansion team the CARDINALS then i'm fine with this.

[duck1318]

I still believe Miami is the front runner just because of the Barcelona backing but this puts St. Louis at a very close second. Isn't the Vancouver ownership deal riffled with star power to though?

[David]

How does having a multi-millionaire owner with not much more than a high school education and no background in running a sports or business organisation trump other ownership groups with billionaire owners with a proven track record either in professional sports or in business?

Even amongst athletes how does Pujols bring more clout to St. Louis' bid than say Steve Nash would bring to Vancouver's? This is nothing more than a PR front designed to make their bid more significant than it really is.

[BlueWhiteLion]

I think it is nice news, but not sure how it puts them up at the top automatically. Having a stadium deal in Collinsville is very important, and I suppose ownership stability is too. I know little about Pujols' financial viability (other than he is a nicely paid star!).

St. Louis is a great soccer city, it remains to be seen how the team would be supported by fans. KC isn't fantastic, and not too far away you have Chicago. Do they siphon off fans from one of those two?

How is St. Louis better than Portland? Hasn't the St. Louis ownership been a sticking point so far? Is Portland better in that regard? And they have a great fan base, and would put a team closer to Seattle.

Montreal seems (by association and cultural rivalry) to be a lock concerning instant fan base and rabid rivalry with Toronto.

And Barcelona in Miami is extremely attractive. In my view, the lone sticking point is not the "failed Fusion experiment" or the "bad sports town" image, but it's potential SSS deal. If they can't lock that in for the '11 bid (not meaning built, but promised/planned/approved by authorities/financed) then MLS might hold off. Winner: Montreal, then either St. Louis or Portland.

[MetroFlip73]

WOW.

Does that mean that St Louis' players WON'T wear socks while playing?

They will be sponsored by Chiquita, cuz of the bananas.

[Dave]

Wow, so why doesn't the league just say screw it and add more than two teams? If you have three great groups than just change the rules.

[nicholas s.]

Love me some Pujols and the Cards are my team, I hope it has a positive effect.

[Wispy]

Dave -- then you have an uneven number of teams in 2011, so you probably have to contemplate adding an 20th team in 2012. Then we've diluted the talent level to the point that even I would have a shot of making a roster. So...great idea, I'm all for it.

[Tony in Quakeland]

I think Pulos helps their bid because Cooper had garnered a lot of respect for his efforts. He just needed more financial backing.

I would love to see more teams added combined with a higher salary cap and even a second DP slot. I think the league is ready to take a calculated risk in trying to attract and keep better players.

[Mikemike]

Semi related question-
I remember hearing that FIFA will only allow 20 teams in top division soccer per country/league. Does anybody know anything about this?
-Mike

[Kris]

It does legitimize the MLS a little bit in the eyes of anti-soccer fan boys and stupid ESPN media.

[Rich Bull NJNY]

Hey it can't hurt him involved in MLS, period. Guy's a big name in sports & entertainment. Is he Venezuelan? That would explain his futbol roots.

[Krista]

Agree with David. Just putting an athlete with a club doesn't make it a front runner. He's only an athlete. Unless he has ownership experience (and a profitable one) I wouldn't get my hopes up St. Louis fans.

[Jason]

I had the same thought, Dave. The only problem there lies in the seeming unwillingness of the league to increase the salary cap in a significant way, as well as the talent pool being stretched even further.

[Hincha Tim]

Bluewhitelion,
You summed it up very well. From what I've heard (and I think it's a very good idea for the MLS to do this) the MLA are demanding that all the prospective cities come up with advance season tickets sales, either guaranteed or some sort of money put forth to see what concrete core interest there is in the community for supporting the teams. So from what I see the MLS is considering (in no particular order of importance):
1) SSS guarantee
2) Ownership strength
3) Proven fan support (measured by how many advance season ticket guarantees have been sold).
I'm sure in there, but far less important is geographical balance which will be used more as a tiebreaker in a close call. I think your assessment on who are the frontrunners is probably close to the mark depending on advance season ticket sales. I read somewhere that Miami group had 15,000 pledged season ticket holders (which I find hard to believe). If this is the case, though, and they get a suitable stadium, I think Miami has the momentum going for it.

[Mark Vanni]

I'm increasingly of the belief that for a team to succeed it should have a stadium in an urban environment. I admit I don't know much about Collinsville, but it sounds like its far out the suburbs. Living currently in San Francisco, I know that I tend to make it out to random events just because they are close by, even if it sparks my interest only a little. I know others are like me and this, in my opinion, makes Portland a frontrunner for one of the slots.

[Felix]

I don't know if it propels St. Louis to the front, but it does help legitimize it with non-soccer fans and give the ownership group a nice face. Personally, I still believe the FC Barcelona-backed Miami bid along with Montreal are the frontrunners.

[joe]

He should have a Gold Glove this year too.

[Hincha Tim]

MikeMike,
The 20 team limit by FIFA is really probably predicated on the fact that FIFA doesn't want domestic leagues playing more than 38 league games plus tournaments, so there is time for international fixtures. If you have a single table playing home and away, this would limit a league to 20 teams.
However, if a league (like the MLS) was split into conferences with an unbalanced schedule (say home and away for teams in your conference and just 1 game with teams out of your conference) you could have a league with more teams than 20 that would still fit under the 38 game/season rule. Under a 2 conference system with this set up you could have up to 26 teams split into 2 conferences of 13. A team would play the other 12 teams in its conference twice (24 games) and the 13 teams in the other conference once (13 games, for a total of 37 games).
So I don't think the FIFA "rule" (from what I hear its not a rule but a wish) is an obstacle to expanding past 20 for the MLS (whether this is advisable with dilution of talent issues etc is another issue).

[Dave]

To get around the scheduling reason for limiting leagues to 20 teams, does anyone think it would be viable to divide the league into divisions like Major League Baseball?

You could have 40 teams in two conferences with almost the same number of matches as a single table and resulting schedule of 20 teams.

I know this is far, far in the future but it may be the answer for getting around FIFA's reasoning.

[Dave]

Whoops, you beat me to it!

[BlueWhiteLion]

Hincha Tim--thanks for the team/games info

Mark Vanni--from what I remember, Collisville is smack in the middle of 3 or 4 interstate roads, and avoids the potential log jam of the heart of St. Louis. People (with money) from West County (St. Louis) can come from the north and the south, all leading to Collinsville. Other than that, I have no clue why they picked the site. More than likely tax reasons or good land price. Having it there would pull from Central Illinois (Springfield) pretty easily, too.

[John]

worst post ever

[RPH]

Yeah, I got a little freaked about by the picture of a baseball player on my favorite soccer website. That could set me back years.

[MikeinSD]

I'm calling St. Louis and Montreal for 2011

[seven]

The only thing that Pujols adds is that St Louis baseball writers will now know that St Louis is bidding on a team. At least Steve Nash has a very public soccer background as a player & supporter.

[Mikemike]

Thanks for the explanation Hincha Tim.

Dave,
I was thinking the same thing. Western league teams would never play eastern league teams except in the playoffs and open cup. I think it would make the playoffs pretty cool. Especially, if they added a mixed (eastern and western) groups stage. It would also reduce cross country traveling for teams.

Maybe this is MLS's plan? Most American sports set up this way (with the exception of groups stage).

-Mike

[nycfan]

Sooo. St. Louis was looking for a token minority/latin as one of the faces of their ownership. Eh it can't hurt. I'm available just in case they need a second.

[bangersandmash]

Just because Pujols said "I'm gonna do something CRAZY!" when asked how he would celebrate becoming MVP doesn't mean that he's planning on investing his money in a St. Louis soccer team.

[Experience Dogood]

Very interesting development. Miami still has to be the front runner however, and even with a improved investment group, I'm not sold on St. Louis. The one major advantage Montreal still has over St. Louis is a strong and proven fan base. This is still a question mark in STL, and in my opinion, is what keeps Montreal holding onto the 2nd expansion bid.

I wouldn't mind seeing MLS grant 3 expansion bids. Not sure if the talent pool can take 5 new teams in three years, but with Barca Miami wanting to get started in 2010, perhaps St. Louis and Montreal can start in 2011?

[Pete]

To paraphrase Chris Rock; Albert Pujols is rich. The guy who signs his checks is wealthy.

Wealthy guys own professional teams, rich guys own minor league teams. When Pujol's boss announces he's investing, then St. Louis moves to the front of the list. In the meantime, Pujols is window dressing.

[SonicDeathMonkey]

Not to beat a dead horse Hincha, but number 1 on your list (SSS guarantee) went out the window the day the league let Seattle in. Everybody keeps saying Miami is a done deal, and they want to play in a football stadium with turf. Just sayin'.

[Tkebh979]

BWL-
Yes, Collinsville is at the confluence of 5 interstate highways (though two are combined I55-I70). Though traffic in StL is not devastating (though it's currently difficult with I-64 repairs on the MO side), it is only about 7-8 minutes from downtown StL to the proposed and approved SSS site. Distance comparisons to SSS's in Carson, Frisco, or Bridgeview are not accurate in the StL SSS case.

A couple things to consider regarding StL's bid:
1) Revenue-controlled SSS with surrounding retail and residential TIF district already approved. All that remains for construction to begin is a green light from MLS.
2) Aligned youth development program. StL Soccer United has already joined the three top youth clubs in the StL area under its banner. Youth soccer participation in StL is very high, and this move consolidates a large, competitive portion of the market under the prospective club banner
3) WPS team under the same prospective club banner.
4) Substantial, historically rooted fan base and high overall interest in soccer.
5) Finally, a set of investors that meet MLS's standards for worth. As fewer and fewer reports about the StL bid mention a lacking ownership group, I assume that this issue, the main one facing the bid has been mitigated.

The addition of Pujols (of Dominican descent who played HS and College ball in KC) to the ownership group is nice icing on the cake and a good PR move akin the Mr. Nash joining the team in Vancouver. Will Pujols bring the same level of financing to the table as the other three unknown investors? I would imagine not, but it's a nice club to have in the bag.

[northzax]

plus, of course, by the time we get to 20, we are likely to have three teams in Canada, so you could argue to FIFA that the actual number should be only the teams in the US, plus the teams in Canada.

I think a strict division structure could be very interesting, actually. put the Revs, Red Bulls, Philly and DC and say, Miami or Columbus, in a division of six. you play an unbalanced three against your own division, a straight home and home against the other division in your conference and a home and home against one of the two divisions in the other conference. with 24 teams, that makes a 35 game schedule. western conference teams would play each eastern conference team every other year in league play. top four go to a playoff system I am still thinking about.

since, say, NYRB would only play Seattle every two years in the regular season, there would be time for rivalries and bad blood to build up, and if they met in the Open Cup, they might take it more seriously.

oh, and on topic? Pujols adds nothing really.

[BlueWhiteLion]

Tkebh979--so, what are your thoughts, as majority owner of the newly proposed StL franchise? ;-) Nice points, all laid out. Thanks.

Actually, I do have a question: other than youth participation, what factors point to a solid Professional fanbase? I thought some of the issues in recent years is that soccer moms, dads, and kids haven't made the great fans that everybody hoped for.

SonicDeathMonkey--yeah, it is not a SSS (Qwest), but it is owned by the Sounders' owner, and they get the all important revenue. Hope the field looks better than Foxboro.

[BlueWhiteLion]

RPH, lol. It WAS a jolt!

Also, think of Houston's boxer and Seattle's actor.

[Hincha Tim]

Sonicdeathmonkey,
You're right, I should have rephrased it from SSS to a stadium that the MLS thinks is suitable to host soccer. This actually might not be a SSS but some venue like Houston's etc. However, I do think if a city has firm committed plans for a SSS that it definitely puts them a leg up on a city that does not, all other things being equal. It think Seattle had enough other things going for it and the Seattle Stadium was "close enough" that the MLS was willing to overlook that.

[paul]

St louis never drew crowds in the NASL and i expect the same again. Kansas City redux. What a waste.

[Dominick]

Love the ideas on the future of Soccer in the US (and Canada), with the number of teams and scheduling. Very forward thinking in trying to develop a league that will serve 2/3's of a continent with 333 million people--how can we limit our top league to just 20 teams as this sport grows here? Unbalanced schedules, conferences, etc. great stuff.

As for Pujols, I think the SSS stadium and other owners have more of an impact.

[KingSnake]

If baseball is involved, does that mean Conway will be re-instated with back pay? Not that any of those home run records were set with ... uh ... "assistance", or anything ...

[Al17]

Can someone in St. Louis explain to my why this team can't actually play in St. Louis?
Collinsville is like the equivalent of my Fire playing in Bridgeview and in this case in Illinois and not event in Missouri, so the great state of Illinois would be the 3rd state to have two teams behind both California and Texas. This team should be playing near downtown St. Louis. Will the metro (St. Louis version of the el but much, much nicer than our thing in Chicago) run to the stadium in Collinsville?

[BlueWhiteLion]

Al17, I can't answer why they are not building in MO, other than to opine transportation, taxes, land, was better suited.

Having said that, I don't think there is a big divide for St Louis people and Illinois side people traveling to the other side of the river, as there might be in other states.

[Mikemike]

Northzax-
I like that better. I hope MLS is planning on something like that. I think it should definitely be strictly regional though.

If there is ever an NY2 team, they should be in the same division as RBNY/DC/Philly/N.E. That would be crazy.

-Mike

[PS]

You all aren't thinking big enough. If you have 32 teams split into 4 divisions of 8 then you could play all the other teams in your division twice for a total of 14 games and all the other teams once for another 24 games giving a total league schedule of 38 games.

[Jason]

Holy Sufferin' St. Louisans, batfans,

I hear what everyone's saying re: Pujols - that he's only window-dressing. However, this bid was goin' straight to nowheresville, even w/ nice lookin' stadium plans on the drawing board.

Jeff Cooper seems like a nice enuf guy, but even a multi-million dollar plaintiff's atty from Alton (right?) doesn't measure up to other ownership groups.

Take a look at Seattle e.g.: Paul Allen (& his Microsoft billions) + Joe Roth (former head of Disney, etc.) make Jeff Cooper look like an A&P deli-man... not that there's anything wrong w/ that!

It seems like the league's been pushin' Cooper to expand his ownership group for a while now. And adding Pujols to the equation (+ others to be named later) gives his bid some heft, even if only for appearance's sake!

As a born and bred St. Louisan, this addition brings a smile to my face! Keep up the good work, Mr. Cooper!

[SombraAla]

Ultimately I'd like to see something like a 3 division league, something similar to 2000/2001 but with respectably sized divisions - home and away in division and 1 game with each team in the other divisions... unfortunately that would mean somewhere around 30 teams, so we're not gonna have that anytime soon.

But I think a situation like this would keep the majority of the away games in relatively close proximity such that traveling fans would be much more prevalent.

Anyways, I'll keep dreaming about that. As for St. Louis and this news - I think you'll see St. Louis in for 2011. MLS had pretty much told them that if they got their finances in order they would be in. I do believe there will be some sort of 'St. Louis was in line first' thing that goes on here.

Which I think is important b/c not all of the candidates will make it in - they will want to have the assurance that if they stay in line they will get preference to any new fish in the pond. Now, I don't expect MLS to turn down substantially better bids, but I also don't see more than one USL team coming over. Between Miami - a rather sketchy bid if you ask me - and St. Louis, I do think St. Louis holds the edge.

Frankly, though, I just want to know. This is definitely going to be released at MLS Cup right?

[Tim]

St Louis and Montreal seem to be a lock for 2011.

Miami, is a lock for 2010.

These three teams seem certain to get in this round of qualifying.

[Mikemike]

PS-
I think you want to increase regional play and the idea of NY playing say Seatle once every 2 years is pretty cool. Makes it more special.
-Mike

[Tkebh979]

BWL/AI17 -
As I mentioned in my prior post, comparing Collinsville to Bridgeview strictly in terms of time from a downtown core is not entirely accurate. Again, Collinsville is only about 7-8 minutes from downtown StL. As someone who lived in Lincoln Park for a bit and traveled to see a few Fire games, there's really no comparison (aside from neither is truly a downtown stadium).

As far as I know, Metrolink isn't slated to travel out to the site, but I would consider the ownership group to be a bit short-sighted if they did not offer some sort of shuttle service to and from a mass transit hub of some sort.

As for a professional soccer fan base, I'll admit that I don't have figures to back my claim. However, I can say that soccer is something that is very much a cultural thing in StL, even though there is not a pro team to tie it to. If StL is a baseball town on a professional level, then it is a soccer town on a deeper, more familial and cultural level. Families play together, across nationalistic and racial lines... it's not simply mom dropping the kids at soccer practice and gossiping at Saturday morning games. I believe it's an "if you build it, they will come" sort of situation. If given a quality side with quality management and FO, I would predict a TFC-style turnout or better.

[John]

If it brings the MLS to St. Louis it's Great.
Thanks to Albert for jumping on board!!!
I'll then have to stop being a Fire Fan and support the St. Louis MLS team. St. Louis is a great soccer town, college, high school and select soccer etc. We should have an MLS team here!!

[kco]

Bring on the St. Louis SuckFaces!

[Mikemike]

PS-
I think you want increase regional play and I like the idea on NY playing say Seatle once every two years. Makes it more special.
-Mike

[Tkebh979]

SombraAla-
If it's StL, then why not announce at the MLS Superdraft (being held in StL)?

If it's NOT StL, then I would imagine an announcement anywhere but the Superdraft would make the most sense.

[Chrös]

Al17,

St. Louis is on the river. Like Tkebh979 said, Collinsville isn't far at all from downtown St. Louis, and the Illinois factor is essentially irrelevant based on the geography.

It should also be noted that St. Louis isn't the nicest city in the world. I'm pretty sure the crime rate there is among the top two or three in the nation annually, and there really isn't a lot to attract you to Downtown except Cardinals games, Ram's games and the arch. Most of the nightlife etc., is outside of the downtown area.

From the start I thought it should be Montreal and St. Louis. Unfortunately Barcelona is going to complicate things. Montreal is by far the most complete bid: good stadium, already a following and strong ownership.

If St. Louis gets a team, I would imagine the fanbase will look like RSL. It's not the biggest city out there, but there are a lot of sports fans (Cardinal's fans are often regarded as the best fans in baseball) and just as important, a huge youth following there. There's a lot of MLS players from St. Louis right now, such as Taylor Twellman, and Brian McBride went to college there.

It's important that MLS eventually gets to Florida, but the only thing Barcelona has right now is a lot of money. It's basically like they just saw that MLS was expanding and threw money at the situation. They really don't have any organization (their website is terrible) and for a bid so based around money, they have a terrible stadium plan with no long-term solution.

I hope MLS can see this for what it is and makes Barcelona work a lot harder to get a team. St. Louis, Portland, Vancouver and Montreal have all put in their dues and have legitimate plans for teams. If Portland doesn't get a team because their stadium is shared with a baseball team, I would hope a worse bid in Miami doesn't get to play on a turf football field.

So, I think it will be Montreal and either St. Louis or Miami. Portland and Vancouver both have their benefits but they each have too many cons as well. I would just hate to see Barcelona get a team just because they have money, and I have no idea why people think they'd have any more pull than Chivas.

[Chrös]

Also, I'm not from St. Louis, but I went to college at Mizzou, and there is absolutely no way that St. Louis fans have been diluted by Kansas City and Chicago. KC is four hours away and Chicago is five, and even if a few St. Louis natives adopted the Fire (St. Louis fans wouldn't adopt the Wizards) I'm sure the allegiances would go to STLUnited as soon as they got a team.

[thumpjosh]

i really have a sour taste regarding barcas bid. really, how are they aware of what is best in terms of american soccer at this point?

[drew]

while his name is famous, this is really just about the money. the problem in the past with MLS in st. louis was the ownership group not being wealthy enough. this helps to remedy that problem.

also, i do not see the teams in KC and chicago hurting st. louis' fanbase. KC is a four hour drive away and chicago is about a five hour drive. thats like saying a team in washington DC could hurt the new york fanbase.

[DemonJuice]

Cripes, what does Portland have to do?!

I guess celebrity figure heads are all the rage now. Who can PDX get?

Clyde Drexler? Bill Walton? Courtney Love?
Do enough people know Gus Van Sant?

I've got it: Matt Groening!

Get on it, Merritt.

[docsoccer]

YES!!!!!!! Were getting at team thank god. And to people who say he has no expierience running a business he has a very successful restaruant in st. Louis. Plus he is the best player in baseball that might help... alot. Oh yeah saint louis is going to do to the mls what im going to do with the girl I meet at Helen Ftizgeralds tonight use them then lose them.

[docsoccer]

What are you talking about the nightlife isnt in downtown are you crazy? SOulard Washington Avenue has more bars than any palce in the area Harry's West Pepper Lounge, all the SLu bars are downtown. You must not get out much. Washington Avenue is the place to be dawg. Homie

[BlueWhiteLion]

doc, may you find a goooood wife some day

[SonicDeathMonkey]

I love how people continue to pencil in three teams, when the league is only expanding by two. Simply love it. Especially when they say Miami is coming in 2010.

[tkebh979]

This, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the extent of FC Barca's involvement that of a marketing capacity only? Meaning, they aren't offering any direct financial backing? I get the impression it's more of an Arsenal+Rapids sort of situation...

[jdubs]

As for the talk about splitting up into conferences to the point where Beckham doesn't play in NY every year... never gonna happen. The league can't afford to have some locations where its biggest stars don't travel annually.

As for Pujols, and coming from a native St. Louisan, it's great to see him come on board, but I kinda agree with many here and feel like it's window dressing, like Steve Nash in Vancouver. I love to see it, but without the millions in backing that Joe Roth/Paul Allen types can provide, it pains me to say I doubt STL joins the league this round. I really hope I'm wrong there.

And finally, as for Collinsville, I grew up in the next town over from Collinsville, and it's literally 10 minutes from downtown STL by interstate. It's incredibly easy to get to from anywhere in the STL metro area (still one of the nation's largest), and the team WILL be well supported, NOT Kansas City 2. I'd take the Wiz in STL... and give these 2 teams to Montreal and Vancouver.

[Chrös]

docsoccer,

St. Louis' downtown is a lot less active than most. There's Washington Avenue and the Landing, but SLU isn't really downtown. There isn't nearly the condo population in downtown St. Louis that there is in other places either. Also, the presence of a good metro system is just as important to the successful downtown stadiums (Toronto, D.C.), and public transit in St. Louis is as bad as any other midwest city.

My point is just that putting a team in downtown St. Louis or 10 minutes outside of it won't make that much of a difference. If anything it just makes it a lot cheaper for the fans.

[Rich Bull NJNY]

Question. If everyone is so sure that the Miami team is the obvious choice w/ the best chance at succeeding, then perhaps someone explain what happened to El Pibe Valderrama's Fusion??

[Chrös]

Rich,

The logic is that the Fusion died because they were playing in Ft. Lauderdale where there wasn't as much of a soccer population. The new proposal is supposed to be in the heart of the immigrant areas of Miami, which is the reason Miami is supposed to be a strong bid.

When you look at a map of where MLS teams are, there's a pretty glaring hole in the Southeast. My problem with the current Miami bid is that it isn't nearly as thought out as the bids from Montreal, Portland, St. Louis and Vancouver. Those four cities have been preparing for this for a long time, whereas this Miami bid only came to the public in the weeks before expansion applications were due. The Miami bid has no plans for a true soccer specific stadium, only the notion that a team with Barcelona's namesake will attract the latino population to support the team.

In my opinion, that logic is completely bogus.

1. Barcelona is in Spain. From my understanding, the target audience in Miami is from Latin America. They speak the same language, but it's not the same thing.
2. Chivas USA tried the same thing, and are now struggling to draw fans in the second biggest market.
3. Identifying an MLS team with a bigger team is incredibly polarizing, and unless there are already thousands of Barca fans in Miami, that name doesn't guarantee anything. Real Madrid has quite a few fans of their own, you know..
4. MLS should be working to expand it's own unique names and leagues. People around the world are intrigued by the U.S., and MLS should be pushing teams like D.C. United on a more global presence.
-I was at the Olympics in Beijing this summer and one of my coworkers was an Indian man who wore a David Beckham jersey. That's what the league should be looking for, not an incomplete bid in a tested-and-failed city from a polarizing giant.

[BlueWhiteLion]

Tkebh979--thanks for your insight. I have never lived there, but I interned there for a year, and lived in central IL for nearly a decade. St. Louis is one of my favorite cities for some reason. I knew about the university soccer culture--even did a day camp with Ty Keough once . . . but I didn't know how deeply it went culturally. I wish them well.

As for thinning out our teams, there has got to be a way around that. In the short term, perhaps with a salary cap increase, we can add more central and south americans (etc), and in the long run, with pay better than 25K for players, there have GOT to be more players out there that can and would play if they could make a living. Think of all the ethnic enclaves.

Actually, I taught at a school filled with Ethiopians for a couple years. Some of the best players I have ever seen were these guys. A lot of them from the Alexandria (DC) area. I'll bet there are scores of untapped talent in this great country.

[BlueWhiteLion]

Chroes (sorry, can't do an umlaut): While I am for the Barca bid in Miami (within parameters), I do agree that ANY bid, even "mighty Barca" (and I don't like Barca) needs to be well thought out, and a SSS in Miami--some plans/money/policy IN STONE needs to be a part of a Miami bid.

Having said that, while you raise good circumstantial points (differences between Spain/Miami Hispanics, etc), you leave out important points. The Fusion team was experiencing attendance growth year by year. Team wise they also had success (semifinals their final years). There were other good factors. This all despite being played in Lockhart, far away. While there may be factors with Horowitz (the owner) that I don't know about, basically, it was HIS decision to fold. But had he had the money and staying power as other owners, I believe the Fusion would still be around and growing strong.

Miami is NOT a bad sports town, but it has been a city of rapid growth, transient culture, and save for the Dolphins, has not had any teams with rich history. So they are not as committed to the local teams as a NYer might be. But when the team is having success, the people turn out. WIth time, I think the allegiance grows. But then teams like the Marlins have made fans cynical by decimating the teams after each WS win. That kind of "fire sale" (even if well thought out froma business point of view) just pisses people off and makes it hard to establish good will and allegiance.

Barca is a great idea (I confess I am hazy about their direct financial involvment) because an established team with world wide presence wants to (apparently) invest in this league. they have many resources from money, to players, to expertise. It does not matter if there are Barca fans in MIami. I am not a fan, but I would go, because of soccer, and that I am smart enough to see that a quality organization is backing this team. (again, not sure how they are backing them, maybe I am overselling them).

Miami politics have made stadium deals near impossible, and that is to their shame. The bay front would be awesome, but they are committed to condos. However it looks like at long last the Marlins are getting a stadium and a soccer team could build one on the same plot of ground in little havana. This is to the credit of the politicians (who have finally been working hard and cooperatively) and the mayor, whom I understand is a huge soccer fan.

Chivas might have lessons teach us about how not to do something, but they are not a direct correlation. Nor are they a failure yet. Fact is, they ARE a second team, and fact is, they are NOT the Mexican branded team. So their allegiance will have to be built over the long haul, and with success on thefield, that will help

[Chrös]

BlueWhiteLion,

I really do think that MLS needs to get back somewhere in the Southeast, and there really isn't a city that makes more sense than Miami, my entire concern is with the bid.

1. It doesn't seem as well thought out or organized as the other bids. For example, look at Miami's Web site and compare it to St. Louis.

http://www.miamifcb.com/EN/index.htm

http://www.stlouissoccerunited.com/

2. There is no plan for a SSS. I know you can point to Seattle, but that should be an exception, not reverting back to the standard. All we've heard from the other owner is how rich he is. If Houston is offering to pay like $80M for their stadium, this guy should be able to fund his entirely for $100M. If not, the fans can buy into the club like in Seattle.

It's just a shame that MLS could be forced to go soft on this rule. From what I know, the stadium has a turf field, it might have lines, and there are plans for expansion of the stadium soon after it's built. The SSS is SO important to the atmosphere and credibility of this league.

3. I just don't like the idea of branding a club in Florida after one in Spain. Barcelona is huge in Barcelona, not in Miami.

4. Most of all, I just feel like this bid is being made in the interests of Barca, not MLS. It came out the other day that Barca is trying to even avoid paying taxes on the team. It's ridiculous.

[Kevin]

The Metrolink does not currently run to the proposed SSS site. However, the site supposedly is in line for a future Metrolink expansion (I wouldn't bet on an expansion though, considering Metro's budget problems). Still, between driving the 10 minutes, taking a shuttle from a bar in the city, catching an express bus, or for the more hardcore, chugging a Mountain Dew, swimming across the Mississippi without contracting life-threatening disease, and taking a nice 7 mile jog, there are a plethora of ways to get there.

Also, one reason for Collinsville could be Cooper's familiarity with the area / local reputation, as his firm is well established in the metro east. Don't forget the price of a farm field vs. city real estate.

[STLtoSA]

It is funny to here comments people make about St. Louis such as what goes on downtown or crime. If you new anything about St. Louis, you would know that it has a more vibrant downtown than most Major US Metro CBD's, this is something that come from a lot of planning and redevelopment of buildings that had been left vacant. The downtown population has grown exponentially.

With this said, there isn't any room for a downtown stadium, and it would be very expensive to find or create a property large enough for the development planned by St. Louis Soccer United somewhere on the Missouri side of the river.

I didn't like the Collinsville plan originally, but it is a great plan. The development would be great for the metro-east.

I don't see how people can say that having Pujols on board isn't beneficial or that it is only PR. Soccer is a big deal in St. Louis, but the question is will that soccer base support professional soccer. Having a St. Louis icon in Albert Pujols on board is only going to fire up the possible St. Louis fan base.

MLS is not the NFL or MLB so saying that Pujols net worth thrown into the ownership team isn't substantial is rediculous. He's not partnering up with Jerry Jones, its with Jeff Cooper, et al.

I am not going to compare STL's bid to the others, but I believe as do most St. Louisans that MLS would be a huge success in St. Louis.