Where should MLS expand to next?

It has been more than two months since Major League Soccer approved plans to add two expansion teams by 2011 and the speculation about which two markets will be chosen is rampant.

In every corner of the United States, and various parts of Canada, there is growing buzz about MLS potentially choosing them. There are the favorites, such as New York, and the darkhorses, like Ottawa, but we still aren't close to knowing which two cities will receive teams.

What if it were up to you to decide? What if you could vote on which two teams joined MLS by 2011? Here is your chance. I want you to select two cities to be the next two to receive MLS expansion franchises:

poll by twiigs.com

Who did you pick and why? Share your thoughts and selections in the comments section below.

Comments

[Homey]

I picked Portland and Montreal for the simple reason that it seems they support their current teams more than any other non-MLS market. And I love to see cities that support their teams and have great atmosphere for games.

[Derek (Brooklyn)]

Of course it is difficult to say without knowing the details of each bid but, hey, SBI is here for speculation.

I voted for Portland and Montreal. Two great markets with decent stadium plans and motivated owners. I'd also like to see St. Louis get a chance to move forward with the plan Cooper has put in place but I'm not sure of the investor situation.

I'd like to see the Red Bulls established at RB Park/Arena before another NY team eventually moves into the market.

Vancouver with a soccer stadium is a much stronger bid than Vancouver in BC Place.

Miami doesn't seem to have an owner but perhaps the Barcelona connection is more than it seems.

Ottawa, Atlanta and Las Vegas, no.

[Garrett]

The poll is skewed... it stands at 183% overall. Now thats not quite possible unless people are only choosing 1 team and its a 200% overall poll (2 choices/vote) or its a 100% baseline poll and many voters are choosing for 3 (or more).

[WTF]

Montreal & Vancouver... definetly.

Ottawa, although they have the $$$, they dont have the fan support.

[mig]

I chose NY and Miami for different reasons. A rivalry in the NY area can't hurt and with the new stadium, attendance should not be an issue. Miami is desirable for the obvious reason that it has the large latino population. Nothing complicated there.

I vote against Vegas because MLS does NOT need dome-turf football. I vote against Montreal, Ottawa, and Vancouver because there are US cities that can support a team that come before them although if that does not prove out, I'm comfy with a franchise move to Vancouver. St. Louis, gah...doesn't seem to be a hotbed of soccer love (I could be wrong on that).

Interesting poll question though.

[Ives]

Garrett, people might be voting for just one team. I ask all voters to pick two and only two cities.

[Faux Fur and Soccer Shirts]

Portland and St. Louis:

- Because I see no need to include Canada in MLS. If they're so soccer hungry, let them form their own 10 team league and be the SPL to our Prem.
- Because I hate those whining, self-entitled girls from Queens with a passion (maybe that's an argument for including them).
- Because none of the other cities make any sense to me.

[Connor B]

Does anyone know when MLS will make its decision?

[brett]

garber seems pretty high on STL... he wants midwest to be represented...

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/soccer_redcard/2008/09/garber-its-impo.html#comments

ive always backed a STL team as it would bridge the gap between KC and Fire...

portland, montreal and miami should also be high on the list:
*Portland- already established ties with Seattle, plus Sounders are too far north for any quality away presence... think of Quesst with both the 17k+ sounders along with a quality representation of Portland..

*Montreal- doing EXTREMELY well in CL, and already an established SSS... they are a sure impact into the MLS and canadian soccer...

*Miami- Barca wants the team, they have the money... plus it would be good to have a barca developmental program with the team... with their resources, we could see quite a decent number of youth pop out of there... the big question is can Miami produce the fans???

[Ossington Mental Youth]

said Montreal and Vancouver but I woudlnt be mad if Portland or St Louis got in there instead of Vancouver. Think everywhere else is still relatively unproven (i guess st louis is too but its got history going for it, even then im a little skeptical). I guess the real question is whether or not Montreal wants to join the MLS as no bid has been made from my understanding and the USL has been bought by Nike...

[brett]

ives- yup, you're right... i didnt even realize that it was two teams... got a little too eager for my own good :P

[Ossington Mental Youth]

stand by Ottawa being a mistake (and i dont think highly of Vegas and Miami).

[Ossington Mental Youth]

or Atlanta.

[brett]

mig- STL is only the heart of youth soccer... the only drawback would be that their SSS would be stationed just over the illinois border O.o

[Ed]

Atlanta and Miami.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

For the record, everyone that says canada should have its own league is foolish. Itd be a 3 team league, much like the Canadian cup. We do not have the population or support to support a league. Its been attempted and has failed several times. Please get over your xenophobia. We are helping develop American players for your national team (see: Edu, Wynne, Ibee). We are not 'taking away' from you.

[mig]

I stand corrected Brett. I suppose I have a coastal bias. I will say that the midwest of the country is adequately represented with Columbus, Chicago, and KC, though. BUT, if it is a soccer-kinda-place and forms that natural rivalry with Chitown....why not?

[rhybread]

Definitely Portland and St. Louis. It's always good to have a good history behind you when starting a franchise.

[tippose]

Ottawa and Montreal for completely selfish reasons - 90 minutes from where I am. That's about 5-6 hours closer that the next closest franchises (TOR, NY, NE).

Of course, I don't need both. One would be great, though.

[Jim]

Portland & Montreal

Both have great existing fan bases and would outdraw many existing teams. Portland has a stadium plan and potentially a great facility, Saputo Stadium is almost there and could be built out rapidly. There are built in rivalries with Seattle & Toronto respectively which will help both teams and energize the fan bases. In truth I think Vancouver should follow these two.

MLS should stop looking at isolated franchises and build up rivalries which will then gain the league more press coverage.

I did not vote for NYC even though I would like to see another team here. I just don't want to see the Wilpon's get the franchise, they run the Mets as an amateurish organization that trails way behind the Yankees in every measurable way. Let someone else run the team so it has a chance of real success.

[Connor B]

Whatever cities they choose the SSS's need to be in urban areas!!!! Or they at least need to be easy to get to. Look at Dallas who in reality averages 5k a game and Colorado. Chicago doesn't do great either. Its because their stadiums are in the middle of no where. It remains to be seen what will happen at RBA, but I think being a 20 minute train ride from the Port Authority will help attendance big time.

[ajr]

Vegas would be nice simply because its 6 hr from SLC and 4 hr from LA

[WTF]

Ossington Mental Youth - as always, i agree with your posts!

[Ultras]

We want Miami get one of the next two expansions. Vamos FC Barcelona!

[mig]

Ossington, no xenophobia on my part. I'd simply rather have US teams because I would prefer to build the US fan base. I understand that you're interested in Canadian teams probably for the same reason.

No malice, man. :)

[John Leonard]

Strictly as markets, I like Atlanta and Miami (large, diverse, growing wealthy markets in a growing part of the U.S. with the capability of hosting MLS Cup in November as well) but in terms of best support and viability I'd say St. Louis and Montreal. NYC should also always be in the discussion. Despite the well-chronicled troubled history of NYRB, Wilpon's plan of a well-funded franchise with a stadium in the boroughs of the preeminent city in the Western Hemisphere is exciting. It's the one market that not only can support two franchises (if run correctly) but really in the long-term demands it.

[brett]

Connor B- perhaps you should check the numbers... chicago is doing fine in attendance... i believe they are averaging 4th this season right behind LA, DCU, and TOR.... i think an average of 17k... pretty much anything that dipped below 15 was either a friendly, USOC match, or an away match...

also, TP is not located in the middle of nowhere...

[xrnflyer]

If their are to be additional Canadian teams, the next one should be in the West (Vancouver). The Southeast US remains devoid of an MLS team, so Atlanta is a better geographical choice than Miami (Atlanta could draw from Alabama, north Florida and the Carolinas in additon to Georgia)

[Randomher0723]

Portland and St. Louis. one reason being the history as someone mentioned. Another being the creation of rivalries(Portland vs. Seattle, Chicago/Columbus vs. St. Louis). Also, it seems like they would have a good fanbase as well.

[Alexi]

I picked Montreal and Vancouver, BUT I really would prefer ABOVE ALL to see an MLS franchise in San Diego. I spent 5 years in San Diego, playing soccer, living, studying, and I have to say, the soccer culture in San Diego is huge. Sure they have their Chargers and their Padres, but they sure as hell are missing their Sockers...

Why have 2 teams in LA when you could have Chivas USA in San Diego??? Would be soooo sick...

[MasterShake]

people that want Canada out are simply clueless. Canada helps the MLS market all together, I would rather have a team in Vancouver/Montreal than St. Louis/Miami. Look at Toronto they always sell out their stadium and that can't hurt the league.

I voted for Portland because they have awesome support and deserve an MLS team and Ottawa because I like their stadium design :(

[Louis]

As someone who plays amateur soccer and visited Miami this summer I don't see how it would be feasible to put a team there. the players would die of exhaustion considering that MLS plays straight through the summer. Unless all home games will be played indoors it just doesn't make sense

[Eric K]

Portland and either NY or St. Louis. I don't know if Miami or Atlanta has enough going yet to get a good bid together. But no more Canadian teams. I agree with Faux Fur - if there's so much interest up there, start their own league. Whatever reasons against that (population, markets, players) are their concern to deal with, not ours to solve. We should be working on building up US markets first.

[strago]

Portland, Montreal,. Thats it. Thats the list!

[Nathan]

All of them...ones with SSS fill MLS out to 20 teams, then the rest go to USL, then we do promotion/relegation.

Of course it's not gonna happen. I've been around MLS blogs long enough to know the history of the discussion.

For reals, though...if we're just to pick two, I'd go with Portland and Montreal.

A third? NY2, a true Manhattan/boroughs-centered team, as opposed to the New (Jersey) Red Bulls. Nothing wrong with a team in New Jersey, let's just stop pretending it's really a NY team.

[Faux Fur and Soccer Shirts]

Miami is my least favorite choice by far.
Hopefully Barca would be smart enough to keep their name off the product. Ask Chivas USA how that's workin' out.

Where are they going to play?
The Orange Bowl is gone, Dolphins Stadium has 3 occupants already. Do we want them playing in the proposed baseball stadium for the Marlins on the site of the OB? Nope. Is Miami-Dade going to build them a house? Nope, not in this political climate after they agreed to pay for the baseball stadium.

And yeah, it seems natural that Miami's population would be great, based on ethnic demographics, but the amount of people with any money is ALOT smaller than you think. Household income in Miami-Dade is below the national average.

[Geoff]

Montreal and Portland by miles because they have excellent support and a brilliant fan base but also because they both have stadiums in place that can easily be tweaked to maximize MLS capacity regulation. Every other place has to start from scratch. Ottawa not a chance. Miami is a bad idea because no sports team does well in South Florida, remember the fusion? Las Vegas is laughable. The markets in New York, Vancouver and St Louis should definitely have teams in the future but they have to start from scratch with the fee, then the stadium building and then putting a club together. I think Montreal and Portland have a big head start in every department.

[Faux Fur and Soccer Shirts]

Seriously though, on the Canada thing.

Yeah, MTL and VAN would be great. I only want them out for selfish reasons. Nothing rational about my anti-Canadianism.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

WTF-
Great minds think alike, HA

Migs-
Its cool, i guess i lurk bigsoccer too much,
HA. I see what youre saying and fair enough.
Dunno if these adding Mont or Van would necessarily be enough for us up here. Up here regionalism is pretty strong as well as the love of hockey. Itd take an overhaul of the CSA, alot of wins and a world cup placing of the MNT and alot of csl and usl 1 and 2 teams to ramp up support here. Hockey is still king and out west they love their CFL. Whats strange in all of thsi is that soccer is still the number one sport played recreationally here in Canada. Its certainly something to build from. That being said i dont think the addition of Mont or Van would hurt Canadian soccer or its popularity.

[SonicDeathMonkey]

I picked the two biggest markets that don't already have an MLS team....St. Louis and Atlanta. People, have you seen that dump of a stadium Portland wants to fix up? That would be like putting a bow tie on a turd. And count me as one of the many that do not want any more Canadian teams.

[Furball]

I voted fo Portland and Montreal. Most of my reasons have been stated by others, but the biggest is that these two cities both have stadiums that are ready and they have a lot of fans ready to fill them. Seeing empty stadiums during MLS broadcasts are killing MLS. Both Portland and Montreal would bring a Toronto like feel to MLS. Also, like others have stated, the Portland Seattle rivalry in the Northwest is vicious. The cities hate eachother, the fans hate eachother and the Timbers and Sounders hate eachother.

As far as New York which Ives constantly pumps up, I think MLS in it's current format would be doomed to failure. NY is a star based town and with MLS rules, at most you can only have 2 stars. NY won't support a Ronaldinho + a bunch of Chad Barrets and Craig Vanney's.

[lakaix15]

why has this talk.... 1. PORTLAND 2. Montreal

its a give me.... ill be ok if montreal doesnt get it.... but if PORTLAND doesnt then im going to be very mad....

[yameson]

I'm a Red Bulls fan now, but if the goal of the league is to create rivalries and sustained interest, then Vancouver and Portland would be great additions after the addition of the Sounders in 2009. I grew up in Seattle (in live NJ now), and the Sounders v. Whitecaps/Timbers games were electric, and the players responded. I went to a Timbers game last summer, and they have great fan support and a creative and involved ownership. I know less about Vancouver's current soccer program, but their historic fan base was phenomenal if little hard to take when my team was down a goal or two...

[Dave's Football Blog]

I want to see both Portland and Vancouver get in next, because that not only means a continuation of the great Pacific Northwest rivalries, but it also means that USL clubs can save a lot of money on travel, since they wouldn't have to go further west than St. Paul and Austin. That means more cash to spend on better players to make them even more competitive against MLS clubs in the Open Cup.

Seems to me that MLS wants Montreal more than Montreal would want MLS. Would the Impact really make that much more cash by trading their current situation -- regularly sold-out 13,000-seat stadium and success in the CCL -- for a salary cap, roster limits and a visit from David Beckham once a year?

[kco]

Portland
Seattle
Vancouver
All together again.

The Geography works (proximity, 3 conference set up), the history is there, the rivalries are there, the support is there, even the $$$ is there (Roth, Nash, etc).

As a K Citian I would LOVE nothing more than a built in rival like StL to join the league, but I just see Port and V as the most beneficial cities to the MLS.

[mig]

@Oss, I'm originally a Buffalo boy who relocated to the Southeast US so I'm familiar with how hockey is the sport of first and last resort in the region. Hell, I miss being in a puck town. It's the only sport I follow other than soccer.

[Sandro]

I think they should expand to NY. They really need a team in Queens, NY which is a hot bed for soccer. Plus the Red Bulls play in NJ and for Thursday games it is tough to go from Queens to NJ. The Red Bulls will be better once they get their new Arena but a true NY team would be great and preferably in Queens.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Sounds like people are underestimating the rivalry between Montreal and Toronto. This is a rivalry that has dated since hte start of our country and borderlines on hatred. I despise Impact but itd be amazing to have them in the league and to have a derby 2 or 3 times a year. You want explosive stadiums filled with fans going nuts? TFC-Impact, it can be assured.

[Mark]

Ives, where will the teams be able to make the most money? If more money correlates to a better product on the field, I'll support the two prospective franchises that can make the most money. Las Vegas, Ottawa? Probably not. Which ownership groups have the best proposals to make money for the league and elevate the quality of the league?

[Sandro]

The one question this does bring to mind is, if NYC were to get a team in Queens how many Red Bulls fan will switch loyalty to this new team? I for one would have to think about it.

[mig]

Odd question but where IS the new NYRB stadium being built? Seems like I shoulda known that already but give a brother a hand here. Thanks.

[Trent]

Another team in NY, thats laughable, they cant even get 10k a game to see the Red Bulls. Canada is soccer crazy, and they support their teams. I would go with Montreal and Vancouver. My darkhorse choice would be Portland. The real question, can the talent pool sustain the need for more franchises? MLS is already diluted, they better raise the salary cap, if they start adding more teams.

[EDB]

STL because of its proximity to chi and kc and the fan base is there..

and then either portland or vancouver would be fine to give seattle a nice rivalry. IMO the best south east city would be charlotte.

[Hincha Tim]

It would be wise for the MLS (given that a city has an owner(s) with sufficient capital) to consider fan attendance and participation as well as TV market. I understand the importance of TV markets. You have to be in major markets to get a good TV compensation which is a (if not the) major source of revenue for the league. However, the league badly needs to build "buzz" to get TV and prospective advertisers/sponsers and to build more interest in the soccer public. You won't do this by having games in half empty stadiums with quiet crowds. You get "buzz" by having passionate, rowdy full houses, which shows well on TV and in other print media, draws more people to games who want to be part of the party. My inlaws, who never previously even heard of soccer, used to regularly go to Portland Timbers NASL games because they loved the rowdy, fun (sold out) games. People pooh-pooh the NASL, and yes, in the end they outreached themselves, but they were still on to something that cannot be discounted, in that in many markets they successfully built a solid fan base. The reason they failed was not because of poor attendance. I don't think game atmosphere should be minimized as a very important component of league health.

[Faux Fur and Soccer Shirts]

Sandro,
I'm begging you...let that question die. Between that and branding, no one ever talks about anything else around here.

mig,
In Harrison, NJ...literally on the border of Newark.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

[Reid]

Montreal & Portland - 5.5hr trip to montreal or a 2hr trip to jerz.... going with montreal everytime.
Wonder if that contract that Montreal has about sunday games would be void if they joined MLS.

[Tom]

Think it was a mistake to expand into Canada and think it will just compound the mistake to continue.

As far as I can tell, Canada is it's own country with it's own federation. Unless the Canadians want to forfeit there place in FIFA, they should have their own league.

If we go into Montreal, you can kiss a reasonable MLS schedule goodbye. It's too cold to play up there after November and it's too hot to play in Atlanta and Las Vegas in the summer.

Of course we all know that if the money is right, Garber would put a franchise in the Aluetians (you can see Russia from there).

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Mig-
HAHA
i understand your pain.
Sadly i always had to ask my sister (or even previously my irish roommate) specifics about the game of hockey.
They should take back my passport.

[Barry Jive and His Uptown Five]

I would prefer MLS not cannibalize USL and their associated cities, so I voted for St Louis and New York.

I'm also of the school that considers any proposal of more than 18 to 20 teams in MLS as seriously illadvised.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Tom-
Vancouver is perfect then having the same temperature as Seattle...
Montreal is not hotter or colder then Toronto (give or take a few degrees).

How was it a mistake to move into Canada?

The fact that a team has vocal support that sometimes shows up its opponents?

Failing greatly to see our point here, please expand.

[TomM]

I picked Portland and Vancouver for many of the reasons stated above. I could just as easily justify Montreal for Vancouver.

Why not move the KC Wiz to St. Louis? Does anyone really think a SSS will help Wiz attendance problems?

I like the idea of moving Chivas to San Diego as well....

Screw the "US-city-only" approach. MLS needs more Toronto FC type fanbases - can't think of a better way to sell the product to US natives who have no concept of what a true soccer atmosphere is like.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I guess maybe its cuz TFC is in the black and helping develop (yes im reiterating this point) players for the USMNT.
God, why did they have to expand up here?
What a foolish move.

[wyo fan]

I chose Montreal due to their recent success and the prospect of an intense rivalry with Toronto.

I also chose St. Louis because of its history of being soccer friendly and good prospects for a successful franchise.

I don't think Seattle and another Pacific Northwest team could make it simultaneously. Portland, Seattle and Vancouver all could be very successful on their own.

NY doesn't deserve a 2nd team, yet. Let's see how Harrison flies - I think it will do well. I'm recently from West Orange, NJ and a native NYer who grew up going to Cosmos games. (once played an U12 game at Giants Stadium prior to a Cosmos game in the pouring rain.)

[jmac]

Portland is too small of a TV market to make sense for the long term. Montreal and NY2.

I'd also say San Antonio makes a lot of sense: Hispanic population + big TV market + little professional sports competition + recent demonstrable success in Houston + Texas rivalry.

[krolpolski]

Montreal because, as was said, they have strong fan support.

Vancouver and Portland should make it because they would be natural rivals with Seattle.

St. Louis has problems but I would like to see them in eventually, and Milwaukee or Indianapolis to solidify the Midwest.

New York can't make one team work.

Miami is a hotbed of Latinos who all love beisbol. Move further up the coast to Fort Lauderdale and add the Rowdies in Tampa (joining the USL in 2010) and you'll have two viable franchise in Florida.

And that's it. We're done. Of course, who knows if there will be a league if the economy tanks further into depression.

[Ryan]

How about none of the above? MLS’ product on the field is good, but diluting the player pool even further will only hinder the quality of play.

[John Leonard]

Good point, Connor B about the SSS needing to be located in the urban core. I have bookmarked a great article from Steve Davis about that here.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=487388&root=mls&cc=5901

The problem is that first generation of SSS were built as multi-use "entertainment centers" in markets where it simply would've been cost-prohibitive to build in or around downtown areas. It'll take a bold, imaginative and potentially politically risky planning paradigm shift on the part of both the teams of the local officials in each market to rethink that model. To many local government officials MLS is still an extremely young and unproven league and many metropolitan areas still have a "show-me" attitude when it comes to long-term investment in the league and aren't going to cut it any development breaks. D.C. United's stadium fiasco is a good case of that, especially since the outrageous baseball stadium deal for the Nats there hardened local politicians against any perceived concessions to pro sports. Until MLS shows that it's a top-level sports league most cities in the U.S. will continue to treat the league like a red-headed stepchild and downtown soccer specific stadiums as an extravagant luxury unfit for challenging economic times. Red Bull Arena will probably be the first test (being adjacent to downtown Newark) to show U.S. urban planners whether or not this model could work.

[Chrös]

MLS in 2011. Top two teams from each division plus two wildcards make playoffs. Seeds 1-8 based on record, not division.

West
CD Chivas USA
Los Angeles Galaxy
Portland Timbers
Real Salt Lake
San Jose Earthquakes
Seattle Sounders

Central
Chicago Fire
Colorado Rapids
FC Dallas
Houston Dynamo
Kansas City Wizards
St. Louis United

East
Columbus Crew
D.C. United
New England Revolution
New York Red Bulls
Philadelphia Athletic
Toronto FC

[nico]

question: is this the Final MLS expansion (for a long while)? Seems like quality of players/coaching/refs may not be able to keep up with this rapid expansion.

[DL]

I think Montreal and St. Louis. Both have stadium plans in place and good support. I'm interested in seeing if a second Canadian team can get the kind of support that TFC has garnered.

As a side note, I think that Las Vegas would be a great addition. Perhaps instead of buying a piece of the Crew the Vegas group can buy a piece of Chivas and move them to Las Vegas, since they are clearly not having the kind of success attracting fans in So Cal that they thought they would. That gives MLS 3 new markets.

[Chrös]

Also, equally as viable:

West
CD Chivas USA
Colorado Rapids
Los Angeles Galaxy
Real Salt Lake
San Jose Earthquakes
Seattle Sounders

Central
Chicago Fire
Columbus Crew
FC Dallas
Houston Dynamo
Kansas City Wizards
St. Louis United

East
D.C. United
Montreal Impact
New England Revolution
New York Red Bulls
Philadelphia Athletic
Toronto FC

[Sushant Rao]

I think it's important to first list the criteria for picking cities. Here are my criteria:
- local support for soccer
- wealth of talent in area (to develop in a soccer academy and increase the talent pool)

There are 3 cities that seem to warrant a franchise: St. Louis, Miami and NY

I ended up picking St Louis and Miami though I wouldn't object to NY over Miami.

I think the key is that the fans will support soccer and the teams create an academy to develop local talent.

There's a lot of kids that play soccer but can't find the avenues to develop. Case in point is Jorge Flores of Chivas USA.

[GK107]

SDM - Dump of a stadium?? Seriously. So apparently character and looking very unique automatically means dump? I'd invite you to attend any match currently played at PGE Park, and I think you'd gain a whole other appreciation for it.

The plan to get PGE Park up to MLS standards really addresses the one major flaw in the stadium - no seats on the east side of the park right now. That would mean getting fans on three sides of the pitch, and increase the already vibrant atmosphere.

I'd love to see VAN and MTL get in for MLS as well, so I'm hoping the rumor that they'll take 4 teams and not just 2 is really true. STL and MTL fill the midwest needs and gain rivals for existing teams, while PDX and VAN give MLS an immediate Pacific Northwest stronghold.

[Sam]

Canada, you have a bunch of cities that are interested in teams to go with Toronto: Vancouver, Ottawa, Montreal, Edmonton. That is a solid core for an 8 or 10 team league. Just man up and say you are too crap to have your own league and need the mls to even have teams.

Enjoy your world cup qualification, too! :)

[Tillamook]

Miami and Atlanta? No chance for either. They are the two worst sports cities in the United States and I doubt they'll get an MLS team any time between now and 2030.

[jloome]

Montreal and Vancouver, becuase the support level is pretty much guaranteed. It just isn't in most of the other choices, either because of stadium availability or lack of local pedigree (with St. Louis perhaps being the big exception.)

Beyond that, I'd suggest moving a few of the failing franchises -- particularly Columbus and Chivas -- before adding new ones. Columbus is a total failure; that expose in the Columbus Dispatch on their faked attendance numbers earlier this summer just proved it.

The jury is out on KC until the stadium is done, ditto with New York. But two new york teams WITHOUT a shared stadium is just inane.

And for god's sake, let's not see three divisions. Can we try to over-Americanize everything, maybe go back to shootouts as well? Sheesh. No respect for tradition. How about a single table, with the playoffs decided by the top eight, regardless of location?

Nah, that would be too fair and make too much sense. Instead, let's split it up even further, so even more teams with records that wouldn't make the post-season in other divisions get in. Cripes.

[Adam]

St. Louis and Portland.

Keep it in America

[elopingcamel]

NY2 and Vegas. NY needs a real team that is actually in NY.

I understand all of the arguments against Vegas, but frankly the league has a tremendous opportunity to pop the cherry, so to speak, of an un-tapped market that is dying for a major league team to support.
The concerns about heat and turf and what not have already been addressed in the stadium plan, so I'm not going to continue harping on those. Claims about Las Vegans betting against their own team are lame; not everyone in this town are gambling-fiends (most aren't; take a walk through a casino and the only residents you see pounding away at the slots are the elderly--not the target audience that MLS is shooting for anyway).

The truth is, the league loses nothing by giving Vegas a try. If things really aren't working out, then the league can move the team to one of those markets (like Portland, or Montreal) where they can play it more "safe."

Is Vegas a gamble? Sure. That doesn't make it not worth doing.

[Furball]

Portland is a bigger market than:
San Jose
Columbus
Salt Lake

Plus, we have always supported our soccer teams, no matter how bad or good they were. We were third in USL attendance in 07 with a top of the table team. We were second this year with a bottom of the table team. That is what MLS needs. True supporters who show up in good times and bad. Hear that Red Bull, Columbus, Real, NE, and Dallas?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Sam-
Thats exactly what ive been saying.
Are you sure you read over what was there?
No cities outside of Mon, Van and Tor could support a team.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

For the last time, an all canadian league is both impossible and stupid.

[Zach]

If KC consistently has the lowest attendance in the league, why not move the Wizards to StL? This opens up that market, and the league can still set up teams in Montreal and either Vancouver or Portland.

[jevanvoo]

Miami so there is something in the south east, and Portland since there is such a rivalry between the sounders and the timbers

[RK]

Atlanta...because I live here. And the south needs a team.

St Louis, because it is a great soccer town and has a willing ownership group.

As for the others...no opinion on LV, I think we should have teams in the south before more in Canada, Portland's stadium is awful, and New York doesn't deserve a second team because they won't bother traveling across the river.

[Hincha Tim]

Furball,
Agree with your comment except lumping Real Salt Lake with other cities with poor attendance. Despite the dismal record of RSL since its inception, RSL has always been one of the top drawing teams in the league.

[Linky]

St. Louis is an easy decision -- geography, history and market size. If the guys there don't have the group together, the league owes it to themselves to help make it happen. Then I would go Vancouver, so Canada has two teams to keep things alive north of the border for a potential expansion to 20 or 24 teams.

[A.S.]

Miami already failed once. Why would they try again? So Miami is out.

NY2 is out until NY proves it can support the first team in the market.

Atlanta is out, period. Worst sports city in America.

Canada is out until MLS fixes the asinine rule that considers American players to be "foreign" for purposes of Canadian teams. There aren't enough good Canadian players to fill out two teams' "domestic" requirements. (This is a simple fix: for all MLS teams, both Americans and Canadians are to be considered domestic players. I don't understand why MLS doesn't do this already.)

Where does that leave us? Vegas, Portland and StL. Pick any two.

[Love Soccer]

I would love to see St. Louis get a team for the simple fact that it has played a huge part in the history of soccer and it would do very well.

Also I would have to say Montreal. I am not a big fan of candadian teams but they just got a new stadium and they have very good fan supprt.

When the MLS does get 20 teams I would also love to see a promotion relegation idea put in. The only problem is the USL is trying to become as big as the MLS and I dont think the USL would take a back seat to the MLS, even though it already does.

[Love Soccer]

Furball, how can you say that Portland fans are better than the teams you named. The Crew has one of the best and fastest growing supporters groups. Their fans have been going to games for the past 3 years "when they didnt make the playoffs." So take your "great supporters" and try to win USL2. We need good teams as well as good fans

[Miggy]

I know that this is from left field, but I think San Diego could possibly support a team. I know there has been no discussion yet, no investors, no interests, but it has a great soccer tradition down there and I doubt that many people make the trek from San Diego to Carson City to see a game. Maybe in 2020.

[Ian]

I picked Portland and St. Louis, Portland because of the rivalry they could have with Seattle. I picked St. Louis for a number of reasons, the least of which being that I'm from there and know the rich soccer culture that exists there.

A few of our high school programs are constantly ranked in the top 10, top 5 even, in the country. Scott Gallagher is also one of the best club teams in the country, based in St. Louis. In fact, at one point (and this may still be the case, but i'm not sure) there were more players from Scott Gallagher in MLS than any other club.

Throw in the sizeable Hispanic and Bosnian populations (Vedad Ibesevic, for example --> SBI had an article on him recently on "An American Influence") and St. Louis is definitely a hotbed for American soccer.

(There's also the fact that the 1950 MNT that beat England 1-0 had 5 players from St. Louis on the roster, which is pretty sweet. There's a movie about that if you're interested: "The Game of Their Lives." Gavin from the band Bush is in it; that was just weird.)

[Tim]

I think Atlanta is a poor choice mainly because the state of Georgia is all about football, not soccer. I think fan support in Atlanta would be lackluster.

St. Louis would be a great choice because of the obvious history and strong soccer knowledge base in the region. Miami is another logical choice. There's a good fan base down there, particularly among hispanics, and you would see great support for a club.

As far as everyone's ongoing comments regarding the salary cap, though I agree it significantly hurts our ability to bring in top talent, it also prevents teams from bankrupting themselves. Until the league begins to turn a profit on all of the upfront investment going on right now, it is wise to keep salaries in check. We don't want this thing to go the way of the NASL. Once the "bank is paid off," then the teams can ease up on the salary caps and start bringing in some of the type of talent that we ALL would like to see.

[brian]

The league should not expand any further. The quality of play diminishes with each new franchise. There's not enough good players yet to feed an 18-20 team league in my opinion.

[RK]

Funny, but the 8 fields that the Silverbacks have seem to be quite full every night for games.

Simply saying that you can't stereotype all of Atlanta and/or the south. Atlanta biggest shortcoming right now is its lack of a public ownership group -- we've heard about Arthur Blank, but not much.

I'm not willing to ignore the entire south just because they might not be able to have good attendance -- I think the same about LV, but the fact is that I really just don't know. There are so many factors in having a successful team that I think you should be careful about the assumptions you make. Tim, not to say that you are wrong -- there are plenty of people around here that live for college football, and their weekends are booked with going to those games.

[Ron]

I seriously wonder about Las Vegas. Would locals really support a team there?

[Michael]

At some point, MLS is going to get to big to have an uneven schedule as they do now. Do you think it is a better idea to go to a european fixture style or continue to have a conference setting. i for one would prefer a european fixture list, rather then playing one or two teams three times and others only 2...

[Modibo]

Cleveland.

[Furball]

I don't know. I saw a lot of empty seats in Columbus to begin the season. It blows my mind that Columbus would have any empty seats.

[Furball]

Are you Vegas people nuts? You are seriously going to put an outdoor stadium in Vegas when during the MLS season the temperature is always over 100. That is the main reason that Miami and Tampa failed. Not only is it hot in Florida in the summer, the humidity is unbearable.

[Strider]

St. Louis is the obvious location to expand based upon the soccer heritage there and the ownership group working to put this together. It would also be a great rivalry with Chicago and, if it still exists, KC. I also think Montreal would be great in some ways, but wonder about a grass field and adding another Canadian team when there are several US cities wanting in to MLS. I don't know why Atlanta doesn't seem to be very popular either. It is large enough, with enough soccer going on there, but I don't know its history of support for adult soccer. Can enough people get past football there?