Trinidad & Tobago 2, USA 1: A Look Back

                                                                                Photo by ISIphotos.com

Consider it a valuable lesson in international soccer.

The U.S. men's national team fielded a young squad with several top prospects and the team got a first-hand look at how tough World Cup qualifying can be.

Trinidad & Tobago was tougher, created more chances and showed more energy than its younger opponent.

To be fair, the U.S. team was very inexperienced and hadn't played together previous to Wednesday (although many of the starters were Olympic teammates). That still didn't explain away several disappointing individual performances.

Here is a closer look at how the U.S. national team's players did on Wednesday night:

Player Grades

Brad Guzan (5). Looked shaky in the area and wasn't overly aggressive. Made one good save on a dangerous free kick in the first half, but probably showed the rust that comes from not having played in recent months.

Heath Pearce (5). Had his hands full with Carlos Edwards, and lost him on T&T's first goal, but Pearce showed a willingness to get into the attack and even beat his man a few times. Not a great performance but the quality of his individual match-up can't be ignored.

Dan Califf (5). Caught in no-man's land on Latapy's goal. Showed his physical limitations as well as the positives of his experience. Doesn't look like a great option behind the U.S. team's regular starters.

Michael Orozco (5.5). Much steadier than I thought he would be in his first senior national team start. He doesn't have the size you look for, but Orozco put himself in good positions and avoided mistakes. Is a promising center back prospect who just might have moved ahead of Califf on the depth chart.

Frankie Hejduk (3).  You love his hustle but hate his lack of skill. It was his poor pass that led to the breakout and eventual Russell Latapy goal. He mis-hit crosses and turned the ball over repeatedly. The performance makes you pray for Marvell Wynne to start getting minutes.

DaMarcus Beasley (6). Very active and tried his best to initiate attacks, but never did connect well with the rest of the midfield. Tried his best to carry the play at times but that's not really his game. He definitely missed Landon Donovan and Brian Ching tonight.

Jose Torres (5.5). He was pushed around early on, and even gave up a very dangerous free kick early, but Torres eventually settled down and showed a good combination of skill, vision and work rate. Where Freddy Adu was flashier with the ball, Torres did much more work off the ball. Some blame him for losing Latapy on the first goal but he was racing back and was at least near the danger area, whereas teammates Maurice Edu and Sacha Kljestan were very late getting back. Torres showed enough to merit another start in the qualifying finale against Guatemala.

Freddy Adu (5). He can look very good on the ball, and kept possession better than most, but it's easy to remember his bright spots when the reality is he was actually not that effective. I thought he played well initially, but on second viewing you realize how much he disappeared in the second half and how ineffective he was at trying to go at the defense. He had a promising first half, finding a lot of the ball and helping keep possession, but he didn't create any real chances on the night and faded in the second half. The talent is there, but you have to wonder how much not playing for Monaco is hurting his development.

Maurice Edu (4). Wow. His first 30 minutes on Wednesday night were 30 of the worst minutes a player has ever played in a national team uniform. Turnover after turnover left you wondering what was wrong. He eventually settled down and played a much better second half, but still failed to impose himself and was nowhere to be found on the first T&T goal.

Sacha Kljestan (4). After two solid games in qualifying, Kljestan delivered a real stinker. Turnovers and ineffectiveness made him look like a shell of the player who looked so good in the first T&T game. Blame it on him playing on the wing if you want. That's no excuse for some of the simple mistakes he made and the general lack of contributions.

Jozy Altidore (5). An Eddie Johnson-like first half (though Johnson actually scored a goal in qualifying at T&T four years ago), where he just provided nothing, then a silly shirt grab in the penalty area that set up T&T's game winner. Altidore avoided a worse grade with his impressive effort to go at the Trinidad defense and set up Davies with a perfect cross, but an overall disappointing night.

SUBS

Charlie Davies (7). I've been a fan for a while and Davies showed why on Wednesday, coming on late and providing energy and purpose to the attack. Just as he did in the closing minutes against Nigeria in the Olympics, Davies was relentless in his pursuit of a goal, only this time he found one.

Danny Szetela (6). Looked good in limited action. Showed a good touch and his dangerous cross into the penalty area deserved to at least create a shot on goal, but no Americans were there to take advantage. With Edu and Kljestan looking so bad, and Szetela playing regularly in Italy's Serie B, I can't help but wonder if Szetela will make a move up the depth charts come 2009.

Chris Rolfe (DNP). Not enough time to make an impression.

-------------------

Not that it should have taken last night's match to prove it, but the performance certainly helped put into perspective just how strong the full senior national team is and how important all of the current starters are to the team's recent success. That doesn't mean there isn't a place or role for any of the young players who played on Wednesday. I still see one or two of them having starting roles in the Hexagonal Round, but we saw first-hand that the development and evolution of young talents is a process and isn't something that can or should be rushed.

Lastly, I wanted to discuss Latapy's goal and the multitude of breakdowns on the play. It starts with Hejduk, who receives a good header pass from Kljestan with some time to make a decision. Hejduk's touch lets him down and his attempted pass back to Kljestan is off the mark and is intercepted by Birchall. Birchall races through an empty middle of the field and faces no pressure until Torres races back to try and challenge him. Birchall slides a pass to Latapy, who gives it up to Edwards on the wing. Edwards puts a few moves on Heath Pearce to give himself enough space to send a chip cross to a wide-open Latapy, who hits a shot off the left post and off Guzan's back, into the net.

I won't fault Torres on the goal because he's the only one to get back and pressure both Birchall and Latapy before sliding over to try and provide some help on Edwards. Latapy is left wide open because A) Maurice Edu is nowhere to be found (he doesn't even show up on the screen until after the shot) and B) Dan Califf puts himself in no-man's land. Orozco and Califf are both facing the left flank, where Edwards is coming in from, but it is Califf who is just a few feet behind Orozco instead of posting up at the penalty spot. By the time Califf reacts to Edwards' cross, it's too late.

So that's Hejduk's turnover, Pearce beaten by Edwards on the cross and both Edu and Califf failing to account for Latapy. It took four breakdowns for that goal to happen, four chances for an American player to prevent it.

That's just one of the many lessons learned on Wednesday night, lessons the young Americans will hopefully carry over into 2009, when some of them will be called on to play bigger roles with the national team in much tougher World Cup qualifying matches. Yes, the loss was disappointing, but not as disappointing as it would be if the youngsters didn't learn from it.

What did you think of the match? Which players impressed you? Which players disappointed you? Share your thoughts below.

Comments

[koriordan]

First, thanks to Ives for calling out the commentators who have been clamoring for a young line-up. It’s not just that these young guys are inexperienced; some of them are not good enough yet. Also, I am hesitant to say this, but will anyway—I have a feeling that a good majority of those who propose bizarre line-ups with Bradley as a right-back or Orozco as the other center-back in place of Gooch or Bocanegra have never played quality football before. Just because they are new or good does not mean they can play in any game or any position.

In my opinion, Adu played poorly. If he can’t get a spot in Monaco’s starting 11, he doesn’t even belong in the National Team camp. Plus, think about who he is competing with for a starting spot tucked underneath a Ching/Altodore. Even Ives suggested that Orozco had some bright spots last night. Orozco was atrocious. He showed no composure and consistently booted the ball out of bounds, even when he was not under pressure. Edu also had a ghastly game—Rangers coaches must be filling his head with too many thoughts. By the time he is ready to settle the ball, his mind is going in a million different directions. And then he muffs it. Torres had the typical sophomore-game jinx, but I didn’t think he was awful. In fact, I like his moxie.

I am all for proposed line-ups, but I wish people who propose them would offer rational insights for their personnel. It is not rational to suggest players merely because they are new or overhyped (e.g., Adu, Torres, Orozco).

[Matt Mathai]

It was a valuable experience for the players and coaches. I don't think you can take too much out of the result. We were playing to expand our pool, while T&T were playing for their lives.

All I learned was that you can't expect to throw out almost a complete team of relative novices and hope for cohesion. In 'real' qualifying situations, youngsters will be brought on one or two at a time and can learn the game surrounded by veterans.

The first T&T goal came mostly because Califf was ball-watching and left his mark. Latapy had five yards of open space in the box. Decent defending would have closed him down. Put this down to experience. We need to give our backups a lot of minutes, since I don't expect our back line to make it through the hex without injury.

[Mike]

I have not watched the game a second time, but watching it live I thought on the Latapy goal, the U.S. backline had Edwards offside had Orozco not dropped so deep on his recovery...

[Reid]

I thought that this would be the way the match would turn out. For young "kids" to go to T&T without really playing together, and go up against a solid concacaf team with a lot of experience. This game i think was what most of the guys out there needed, except for Edu & Heydude, they were the only ones that really shocked me. These kids are young and it will take time for them to gel, and to feel comfortable.

I do think pablo was missed in the midfield and on the defensive side of the ball.

[ManicMessiah]

Well, looking back at how Bradley treated EJ, this line-up should have about a year and a half more to try to prove themselves.

[Michael F.]

Great analysis, Ives, thanks. I agree that all of these younger players, playing all at the same time, are not as strong as our senior team. But I saw enough to believe Altidore is still a better option than Ching and Adu and Davies deserves more time playing with the full team. Agee?

[dr dcr vcr]

Did anybody of you really watch the game? Seriously, I remember at least three times where the ARs incorrectly waved for offsides against the US, when the replays showed that they were in fact onsides (yeah yeah I know its a part of the game but including the players they had the worst performance by far). The Jozy pass to Run DMB early in the first half, the through ball Torres slid onto Jozy in their 18 yd box, the Jozy goal that was disallowed were all blown calls. For those of you counting that is two very dangerous chances at least and another goal we should have had played on. As for players, Sacha was the worst by far. He should never play as a right midfielder for the national team again. He plays way too slow to be effective.

[Tony in Quakeland]

I rate Josy a little higher (maybe another half point) He had a very nice pass in the first half that might have resulted in a goal if not for an incorrect off side call. He was also on the receiving end of the Torres pass that might have been a goal but for another suspect offside call.

And while I don't disagree about Freddy, you were more complimentary in the match tracker. Why'd you knock him down a peg?

[wyo fan]

My biggest complaint is that I thought there was a general lack of urgency in the middle of the field. I remember watching 3 or 4 players walk back slowly at the end of the 1st half as T&T worked the ball upfield. Perhaps that is why Adu was yanked. Maybe Davies work rate will bring some competition to those positions.

Also Klestjan and Hejduk were horrendous on the ball. There was sooo much space to work easy passes to set up uncontested crosses but they rushed things or the first touches were miserable.

Perhaps the Eddie Johnson syndrome is contagious...

[Al]

koriordan - Orozco was atrocious? I don't know what game you're watching. I thought he held his ground well. Made a couple of timely blocks and a few clearance in the box.

Agree with Mike, that if he hadn't dropped so deep, Edwards was offside. BUT, do you really want to depend on the refs who blew a couple of non-offside calls against the US?

[golfstrom]

Good analysis by Ives. Really missed Gooch and Bocanegra last night. They are a class above our other defenders.

Was it me, or was the field really bumpy? Seemed to throw off our possession (particularly Edu).

We also got jobbed a couple times in the first half on offsides calls...Altidore had a goal/1-on-1 chance wrongly disallowed.

[Angel]

Yes Ives,

is true about the youngester been a little shakey but this will help to give them a feel on how a qualifying atmospher feel like in a hostle enviroment. I think even tho the USA lost they show some good things. I did like how Torres play with Beasley he did some crosses but sometime it look they where missed time. I like Sacha, pearce, Califf, Orozco, Altidore. I was disappointed on Adu, Edu, Hejduk, & Guzan. But on the second half Edu played much better. Overall I think we have a good Team B. Now all we need is to mixed this with the A team.. So we can have a good solid team in the Hex. please let the same Team play against Guatemala with just couple additional to this team like Donovan, Jay Demirt, Dempsey so GO USA all the way.

[stencom1]

The first half of that game was hard to watch....both sides really not good......I'm not sure you could pass the ball backwards as much as the US did....Boring!!!!!!!

[Ives]

Tony, what people don't realize is that it's tough to really watch and digest a game after one viewing when you're doing a running commentary and other things. I generally prefer watching a game at least twice (a second time without any other distractions) to get a real sense of how the game went.

With regard to Freddy, he did some nice things in the first half and benefited from being seemingly the only American player who could get and keep the ball for any length of time. His touches stood out to me for that reason, but what I noticed on second viewing is that often times he didn't do much with the possession. I also was able to get a better sense of what he does without the ball and the fact is he just doesn't put in enough work over the course of a game.

I know Adu fans will complain that he shouldn't have to put in defensive work, but in modern football, the concept of a one-way attacking midfielder just isn't acceptable anymore.

The skill is there, it's obvious, but Adu has to want to work without the ball and needs to work on his fitness to be able to handle that. That's why I wound up giving Torres a slightly higher grade, because when you watch him you see him hustling all the time. He understands that the game doesn't stop when he doesn't have the ball.

I like Adu, I just accept that he's not the finished product yet and has things to work on. Some folks refuse to accept that and insist that he should be starting or getting more minutes.

[eric]

That game was for anyone who still didn't get that Ching's ability to hold possession and make sharp, quick passes that advance the attack. Most of this board said anyone could do that, and obviously it ain't true.

Maybe I'm just still wanting him to be good, but I still liked what I saw from Adu, and desperately want to see more of him along with teammates who can make passes too.

But lets see Wynne, please, it's time to give him a shot at being Dolo's backup.

[JL]

Here is the problem with what you are saying Ives: People have been clamoring for these guys to be playing in games in general, not just these world cup qualifers. In my opinion they are unprepared to play in these games because Bradley hasn't given them more chances to play in friendlies.

And I think it was unacceptable to leave Edu out on the field for the full 90. He should have been yanked at half for someone, maybe Szetela. Leaving him out there killed so many attacks, it's absurd. He deserved a 2, not a 4. The goal Davies scored was because Edu's touch was sooo awful it went to Jozy who made sometihng happen in spite of Edu's efforts. BB sub timing and choices have really left a lot to be desired in all WCQ.

And I hope T&T makes it, and I hope Jamaica makes it. The less Latin American teams in the next round the better, for one reason....diving. Guat and Honduras have to rank at the top of the list with Mexico on pathetic diving.

[Al]

Angel - I agree with that hopefully BB will stay with the same lineup. I'll actually go as far as saying just the same exact lineup, except for Hedjuk (put Wynne in). Let's see how the youngsters respond. Our 'A' Team was also terrible when they played in Guatemala and Cuba; they did better at home. So, I'd expect the same with the youngsters.

golfstrom - you're right the field looks bumpy and slippery I might add.

[Looking Dangerous]

Ives,

Love the blog and your review.

I'd cut some slack on Edu. Yes, he was HORRIBLE, but remember, Ryan Suarez has a cap. No one was worse than that guy.

[Mike Caramba]

First of all, I don't think anyone proposed that this lineup should be the USA's A-team--Kljestan, Guzan, Califf, Orozco, Hejduk, Torres? I think most fans who want to see more youth are really calling for Altidore/Cooper and Adu to be included in most 23-man rosters in place of players like EJ. This game didn't prove youth are useless any more than it proved veterans like Hejduk and Beasley are useless...this point is just silly.

Second of all, in the 2006 cycle, the home team won 49% of the time. In MLS this season (as of two weeks ago), the home team won 51% of the time. How about every time a good team put in a bad performance on the road, we right it off as the extreme and unique difficulty of MLS away games. No one is denying the existence of home-field advantage. Tonight's game had moments, but was fairly ugly. No big deal. Our 1-0 victory in Guatemala was ugly, but at least we got the result. Why am I, and other like-minded fans being called villains for taking these points of view?

[kofi_x5]

I was watching the debate during the second half, so I missed the goals. But, Ives, your visual description is vivid. And based on what I saw in the first half, I'm not really surprised about who got schooled on that play.
Edu played way under his talents. Even without game time at the Rangers he should at least be on the practice field. So no excuses. He passed the ball directly to the other team multiple times. WTF
Hedjuk showed some fantastic footwork at times but could not complete his moves. First touches had the subtlety of a ball-peen hammer. He sets up his crosses beautifully but his delivery is as effective as my local Fedex guy who leaves a note on my door and never rings the bell.
Sacha - enough with the waist level crosses into the box. they dont work, get'em up

All in all, I think we played a decent game, considering this is first time these guys have been on the field together in a while. I am very happy to have seen the team that was put on the field last night. Although hoping for a win, I agree the lessons learned were more valuable.
BIG UP TRINI ! They played a fine game, I love their atmosphere, with the constant drums & calling out their favorite players. Must've been a great game to be in the stands.

[Mike Caramba]

*In the 2006 CONCACAF World Cup qualifying cycle...

[koriordan]

Ok, Al--seriously. The old "I don't know what game you're watching" bit is kind of ridiculous. You and I both know I watched the game. You are welcome to address the substance of my arguments, but why go personal? I'm not Barack Obama, and you are not John McCain. ANYWAY...

I agree that the refs blew some offside calls, and I further agree that we should not take into account the refs' performance when we talk about the MNT. That said, you should take another look at the game. At the international level, you would expect to see defenders play the ball calmly out of the back to the midfield to begin to build the attack. That should be the expectation 98% of the time, with the lone exception being dangerous situations. Orozco was knocking the ball out when there was a single T&T man within 15 yards of him. Really, though--go back and watch the game and keep your eye on Orozco. He looked (understandably) uncomfortable, but he did not get comfortable as the game went on. He is young, but if you think about the centerback pool right now, he is barely qualified.

I am open to other interpretations of his performance, but I stand by my argument that Orozco was one of the three worst players on the pitch (Hejduk and Klejstan were tragic).

[srfinger]

I thought Jozy looked a step slow all night. Sure there was no service, but he never created any separation on the flank.

No was put a stamp on the game. Compare the rhythm of the midfield last night versus against Cuba. There wasnt the main guy to settle things down and keep plays going.

Klestjan, Torres, Beasely, Adu all had some good touches (Edu has to start playing at Rangers. He has been bad in this round of qualifiers.), but never established any sense of purpose in the middle. Never sensed that we were losing possession too much and started making sensible passes.

Freddy fills a very narrow role right now. He is by no means good enough to be starter yet. Yes, he probably has the best touch and vision on the squad (move and cross on the endline after a deflected cross was silly), but not by a wide enough margin to merit providing no defensive cover.

Its different to try and contribute when you come on as a sub, or play as a complementary player versus being out there on your own.

Maybe the midfielders would have been better with a guy like Ching finding more of the ball and fighting for clearances. Maybe Jozy would have been better if there were plays being created in the middle.

People moan about BB being conservative keeping veterans in the lineup, but it is hard for 8 young guys to step in and try and be the focus of the squad.

Most of all the young guys have to find minutes for their clubs. We have Guate in a month. Then probably a big camp in January, but guys like Edu, Adu, Jozy, etc.. need to get used to playing real matches and not just trying to make a difference in ten minutes a game.

For the team to get better, we dont need every single one of the younger guys to develop into a star. But one or two have to continue to improve.

[Dave]

obviously if Kenny Cooper had of played he would have scored at least 5 goals, BB is such an idiot for not calling him.....oh wait

[Tom P]

I would not rate anyone high.
1. Jozy looked slow to react
2. Sacha was just awful except on the header that started the goal sequence
3. Edu- well let's just say he should focus his energy on one day becoming a center back based on his last 2 senior nats performances.
4. Adu- largly invisible
5. Pearce-well I thought he showed better then everyone seems to so I guess I was wrong.
6. Guzan- needs to be more forceful with his back line's organization.
7. Heydude was Heydude

I really like the comment above about how slow and lacking urgency thru midfield. That was the most disapointing thing for me.

Now is that formation and tactics or is that lack of performance by the players? Anyone want to chime in?

[NOT WHAT IT SEEMS]

ok so what can we learn from this game - we learn that the US olympic team isnt good enough on the international stage. ok, didnt we already know that? i hate that people are claiming this proves the youngsters were ready for the big stage. this is not true, what it does prove is that an entire team of youngsters is not ready. i complained a lot about bob bradley's previous lineups, and i stand by it after this. i was never asking for bob bradley to start a team of all young guys, i was just asking him to maybe throw jozy out there instead of ching one game, maybe like freddy adu get in to a camp and let him come in after 60 minutes, maybe let marvel wynne get a start. this result just proves that a bunch of young guys playing together for the first time against an experienced team in a "hostile" environment are going to do poorly. it in no way proves that some of these young players have roles (starting roles) to play in the near future. for the Hex, id like to see bob call in a couple of these young guys to take up roles with the normal full MNT. our MNT is solid, but everyone must admit we are lacking in some areas, and lets give the young guys a chance to show what they can do playing with the rest of the full MNT, not with other kids.

[Mike Caramba]

Well put, NWIS

[Sushant Rao]

Ives, your ratings are interesting. I haven't watched the game because of a family commitment yesterday but I'm planning on watching the game on ESPN replay.

So, I read Ives' running commentary. Based on the commentary alone, a couple of things surprised me:
- Adu a 5? The comments at the time seemed to indicate he did a lot of positives with the ball and was one of the better players on the field for the US.
- Edu & Kljestan get 4s? Based on all the turnovers Ives' noted, I thought they would get 2 or 3.
- Jozy is about right. He seemed to do some good things but getting called for a penalty in the box offsets the good.

For the next game, I hope BB brings in most of these guys (aside from Hejduk) and brings on some more MLSers (playing Wynne, Cooper, Rogers, Holden, etc).

I would love to see a lineup like this (with subs)
Alitdore (Cooper)
Rogers - Adu - Davies
Torres - Kljestan (Edu)
?? - Orozco - ?? - Wynne
Guzan

Ideally, we'd play a 4-1-3-2 so we can see Jozy & Kenny with Adu feeding them and Torres in a CM role.

Can't think of any good left back or another center back. Who should be in there?

[Ethan]

1.) Hejduk played better than Pearce in my opinion. Hejduk didn't provide great crosses, but he put a few balls in the area, although neither played well. Putting four defenders together who have never played together and especting them to do well is not realistic though. This needs chemistry.

2.) Wasn't Davies offside on his goal? We had a few called back, but I'm pretty sure he was offside, although I've heard nobody else say anything about it.

[koriordan]

Sushant Rao--

Ugh. My previous post about proposed line-ups is on-point.

[one more thing...]

and in response to some comments - id take a player who comes off the bench at for a top team like Villareal or Monaco over a starter for Chivas USA - remember podolski? remember how him and schweinstager werent playing at Bayern? remember how Low showed faith in them over players like Odonkor? remember how well they played in Euro 2008? yes playing time matters, but like i said, ill put my money that a player coming off the bench at a top club is better than most starters at an MLS team (immediate comparison - kljestan and adu). finally, let's not forget players like dempsey, boca, and bradley all are not or a t some point in the recent time were not getting first team action- think we shouldn't start them? think we should bring sasha victorine or ante razov over them? no, get out of here.

[Al]

koriordan - chill out, that was just sarcasm. I know we both watched the same game. Sorry if I offended you.

Anyway, I used to play as an RB, so when I watch a game, I pay special attention to the back line. The play you mentioned was correct, he made a poor clearance. But if you look closely, you'll notice: 1) the T&T man was running toward him, 2) Neither Pearce nor Califf dropped back to help him so he can get a clear pass.

At that point his options were to pass back to the goalie or clear it out. I'd personally clear it out since passing back to the goalie with your opponent racing towards you is not a good idea. But, he could've cleared it better.

All and all, Ives' assessment is spot on.
You want other interpretations, look at Carlisle (ESPN) and Wahl (CNNSI), they pretty much agree with Ives.

[RedStateJim]

I thought they played better as a team than I was expecting. With 8 new starters in the line-up any team would be disjointed and their play showed that. the back line was out of shape throughout the match.

Jozy- his header could have tied it.
Freddy- nice on the ball but not effective
Sacha- bad outing without vets around
DMB- only offered pace
Jose- I want to see more of him!
Maurice- FEET OF STONE!
Danny- avg at best
Frankie- see DMB above
Michael- held his own after settling in
Heath-should be our second option there
Brad- couldn't hold on to the ball and his punch was down and in instead of up and out.

If we had Pablo instead of Maurice we could of won so that does not say much for Maurice.

[voyager]

I may be the only who feels this way, but I place some of the blame for the poor first half on the captain. I felt that Beasley was ineffective. Actually, the wide play was almost nonexistent, and I am including Frankie's runs. When he is the sole wide threat something ain't right. The middle was so clogged up and nobody took charge. Everyone seemed to want someone else to do something with the ball, so it kept getting bounced back and forth and eventually back to T&T.

Back to Beasley. As captain, and a wide player, he not only needs to stay wide but make sure the center mids use him effectively. Like get him the ball in good spots wide. He was not vocal enough. Same with Sacha. He kept sliding to the already crowded middle. I was getting so frustrated watching the headless chicken that was the US in the first half. Could be why I ignored the second half entirely.

[MM]

It is not surprising that with the US playing a young team that they get beat. But I think the arguement for youth is to play or have on the roster Altidore, Davies, or Cooper instead of Ching & Johnson. I don't think most people were calling for a complete overhall of the roster in previous games. With the US already advanced, obviously this was a time for a grand experimentation. But I think the arguments for previous games was to have a forward that could score goals. It would be nice to see other forwards get an opportunity with the regulars like Michael Bradley has gotten in the midfield. That opportunity is gone till next year.

[NOLA soccer fan]

I am beginning to wonder about edu. the man was literally non-existent the whole game. i was hoping that BB would sub someone in for him as opposed to adu.

But the real problem i had, was on the latapy goal. all 4 defenders were looking at the ball and not marking their men. when the ball gets to latapy, you could see a collective oh sh** look on their faces.

For the first half it seemed like we could not hold the ball to save our lives. Bottom line. the young guns need more seasoning...

[Beckster]

Ives, liked your writeup and generally agree with your ratings although a few more 4s and a few less 5s but generally good. I think there are a few takeaways for me in this:
- International soccer is much faster than MLS - even with not so great teams and our players need to be prepared for playing the best of the best. An MLS player is going to have to be pretty special (like Donovan) to keep up.
- Therefore, the base of players for the MNT needs to be foreign. However, if these players aren't playing for their club teams, they shouldn't be playing for the MNT. Guzan, Pearce,Altidore, Adu,EDU, and even Convey need to be loaned out, get playing time and THEN come play. Right now, we should be focused on players that come in are in top form.
- Altidore needs a 2nd forward to shine
- Torres is too small to play in the center - best left to a wing
- We better hope that Gooch, Dolo and Boca don't get injured and pray that we can get Spector back as soon as possible in form to solidy the back line.
- I agree with you on Adu - showed composure on the ball and was the only interesting midfield presence.

[Ives]

A few things,

Sushant- I explained my Adu grade in a comment above. He did some nice things, particularly in the first half, but he will earn a better grade from someone watching the game casually than someone who has watched the game multiple times and observed everything a bit more closely. The dummy runs, back-heels and quick turns are nice to watch, but when you really sit down and watch game a few times you can get a better grasp of just how truly effective he is, and in the end, after watching the game twice, I came away feeling that he wasn't nearly a effective as I thought he was watching the game the first time. Could I have given him a 5.5.? Possibly, but he just didn't bring much in the second half, whereas Torres got of to a rough start and played better as the game went on.

Also, my remarks about the young guys not being ready were aimed at the people who A) suggested that more young players would have brought more impressive results at Guatemala and at Cuba and B) suggested that Bob Bradley should have started the kids at home against Cuba, when they had yet to clinch. I think some folks finally realized last night that playing road qualifiers is not easy and that 1-0 victories, no matter how "unimpressive" they may seem to you, are good results.

And Looking Dangerous, that was hilarious. Thanks for the laugh. (And no, I'm not giving up on Edu, I'm pretty sure I said more than once during the game that he is better than he showed.)

[Ives]

MM, there is one more qualifier against Guatemala next month.

[Barry U]

Ives - I agree with you on the grades! But I think that DMB and Jozy should have scored at least one goal between them just on bad offside calls. DMB was in alone in the first half from a great Jozy pass and Jozy took a great feed from Torres and scored in the second half.

As far as someone being offside on Charlie's goal. I saw DMB look offside when Jozy made the move to spring himself but I am not sure if that is called offside since Jozy passed the ball to himself. Guys?

This game says that our young guys need more expereince and time together but the future is bright.

[Tom P]

Do you think that Edu's move to Rangers, with him not even dressing except twice since being there, has crushed his self belief?

He looked like a guy with zero confidence out there.

[koriordan]

Al--no offense taken. I appreciate sarcasm, but you were trying to make a point (at first) without addressing the substance of my argument. That's all. No one's opinion is wrong--that's true for all opinions, I guess.

There were a couple of times where Orozco booted the ball, although the instance you mentioned was glaring. I think we can probably agree to disagree on this one. We can also probably agree that Boca, Gooch, Demerit, Califf, and even a slow-but-smart Conrad or Spector would be infinitely better choices in the middle than Orozco.

Oh, I have read everyone's take on the game. Again, no one's opinions are wrong...mine are just right. (j/k)

[NJ Guy No Longer Stuck in DC]

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. This game didn't prove anything as far as young guys getting into the flow, b/c it was a "B" qualifying team. Pearce, DMB, and Edu were the only qualifying regulars playing in position (if you can call Edu a regular for starting Cuba). More than enough posters have pointed this out. Players I think deserve a real shot in the mix from this game: Torres, Altidore, Davies, Szetela and Adu. I really liked the change in Szetela in terms of incisiveness and putting the other team on their heels - Serie B and regular time has been good for him.

Onward. I don't think you can really rate Adu this game b/c I think Bradley had a minute timer on him similar to a pitch count. More importantly, it is very tough to play with Edu when he gives the ball away all the time and plays the ball into pressure; Adu had to chase a lot of turnovers, and that's why DMB was pinching so much too.

Edu and Kjlestan seem to only want to play the ball vertically, particularly bad in the middle interpassing area of the field (MBradley is underrated on making simple but tactically sound passes to keep possession). What a defenders dream to step in front on every play and not really mark when Edu has the ball. Edu wants to one or two touch every ball and it's difficult to play out of pressure that way all the time unless you're Riquelme who feints before almost every touch. LD is the only player we have who excels at the quick technical touches in the middle. When Edu can't play the one or two touch he tends to get stripped a lot drawing a weak cutback across the face of the player.

On Latapy's goal, I really have to fault Pearce (who I like). He didn't shut Edwards down at all! Califf's marking was poor but at that point you are playing lanes when someone has an unmolested pass from the endline. You cannot see ball and man and that's where instinctive (and fast!) defenders excel (not Califf).

Finally, that B team sure looked small out there. I'm not a big Demerit fan usually but I think he would've been a much better choice than Califf in terms of physical presence, leadership, and communication. I think 3/4 of the team turned turtle whever the ball was in the air - halfhearted jumps with hunched shoulders so please I won't have to head it.

[Dave]

Put some of these young players into the regular MNT lineup and I think they do very well, a la Jozy vs Mexico and Freddy vs Spain. You need them to feed off the chemistry that they regular starters have built together. I really hope Bob tries this out BEFORE the Hex.

This game looked nothing different than the disappointing Olympic/Olympic qualifying matches we played.

[Al]

koriordan - definetely not better than Gooch, Boca, and Spector. But I'd put him ahead of Demerit and Califf.

Conrad??? I hope you're kidding too on this one.

[koriordan]

Al,

Demerit is a high-quality player, and I believe he is a clear #3 in the back. Califf I could agree with you on.

Ok, maybe I was stretching on Conrad. BUT, he does have some experience and a decent tactical mind. He just runs like he has concrete boots...

[Steve]

Dave, those are two of the biggest myths out there. Yes, Jozy scored a goal against Mexico but he was pretty ineffective in that game and only scored on a perfect cross from Drew Moor. Freddy played 45 minutes against Spain when Spain was content to let him play with the ball. He made a few nice moves but to say he was great is a stretch. Too bad the Freddy lovers were too busy gushing over his few tricks to realize his game wasn't all that special.

Jozy's going to be a starter next year, that much is clear. Freddy? Not so much.

[eric]

Right now, I'd take Conrad over Califf, no question, especially paired with Orozco. I totally agree our team completely lacked an aerial presence. It was Bizarro-USA, we had to hope for goals in the run of play.

Is Jay DeMerit injured right now? I'd love to see him get another game as we sort out our depth chart.

[milkshake of despair]

Agree with most comments and grades generally. Mix up the veterans and youngsters.

Does anyone think the wind was a factor? All the shots of flags in the crowd were blowing fairly stong. I've not heard or seen any comments on this.

The field conditions were bumpy and slippery. At one point near the end of the 1st half it looked as if Beasly re-injured his knee even, he kept slipping so much. The humidity and heat really slowed the game down to a painful crawl at points.

[eric]

One point I haven't heard made is how badly our team needs someone who can serve a decent ball on set pieces.

Can we have an extra MNT Camp devoted to say, kicking the ball?

[koriordan]

Demerit picked up a hamstring injury and was released with the others after the Cuba game. I don't think he made the bench for the Cuba game, either.

[CO Cullen]

obviously, this was always meant as a true test in harsh conditions. You can't over look the fact that this team has had little or no time together. Some played in the Olympics, but that is really not enough time to be able to take a break and come back with a firm understanding of all your teammates. Edu was absolutely horrendous...and I really rated this guy prior to going to Rangers. He will bounce back, but our midfield had no cohesion and lacked that crucial pass in the final third. Jozy wasn't getting the best distribution, and our flank play was awful. Say what you will about our outside backs, but their over lapping runs proved to be the only really efficient way for us to move up the field. Adu did well at holding onto the ball, as well as Torres. However, what they did with the ball was very predictable. That is why Charlie Davies had such an impact. His off ball runs and constant energy created space and allowed for better distribution of the ball. I also thought Szetela did well in limited action. Bradley was looking for someone to step up and take the reigns. Unfortunately, no one did. Hopefully someone will be up for the challenge by the time the nats come to CO.

[Drew-ROC]

How 'bout a grading of the coach?

I'd give him a 3.5 or 4 for running out that team, then sticking to his pregrame sub plan (Szetela and Rolfe in late) when the conditions called for a change in plans.

Freddy and Klejstan just don't have the international level speed. It seems Torres is faster than Freddy at times. Freddy really lacks that separation speed once he beats an opponent with his foot skills. At least Jozy who lacks the world class speed, makes up for it with his size and strength.

I guess since I missed the first 20mins of the game I didn't think poorly of Edu's performance at all.

[Freddie Footballer]

poor performance by both teams really. USA had everything going against it: sloppy play, lack of cohesiveness/chemistry, poor field conditions, heat/humidity, away from home against a motivated team...and T&T barely beat us, at least on the scoreline.

T&T was LUCKY. I'll take the lessons about our youth, but I hope no T&T fan thinks they beat our best team. Rather, T&T fans should feel fortunate and relieved they played us at home, after we already qualified.

[Ace]

Please dont EVER... ever.. ever.. EVER use Eddie Johnson in the same sentence as Jozy Altidore.

They are light years different in skills and abilities. Overall I found most of your rankings palatable but i thougt you were overly harsh on Jozy, who did provide some good runs.. alebit not his best performance but nowhere near as bad as an Eddie Johnson performance.

[Hector]

it wasn't the "sexiest" of games but you have to remember the 2, in my opinion; blown offside calls which were potentially 2 more goals. i'm not taking too much from this game but it was a good experience for the kids...

[A.S.]

It is ludicrous to say that this result is an indictment of the idea that Bradley should be playing all the young guys.

Nobody should expect that a group thrown together like this will play great soccer immediately, especially given a desperate veteran opponent and crappy field.

The "A" team has been playing together for dozens of matches. They know how to play with each other. This team was a last minute thing put together after Bradley let most of the "A" go on Sunday.

So Ives's statement that those of us clamoring for a look at the new guys have taught a "lesson" here is ridiculous.

[Robert]

I miss Boca and Gooch. Wynne would have been nice too. Dolo was sorely missed as well. Torres wasn't quite there and Kljestan looked awful. Agreed that Jozy, Adu, Edu and Guzan are rusty from not playing enough. I'd like to see Perkins on goal next time. Someone with more poise and better reflexes from regular play for their club.

[Rafael]

I agree that the players did not play well. I also hope that they got a good experience from last night's match. However, let's not all jump on the tomato wagon for this young squad. Take the following:

*It was a Concacaf road match (play the same match in US soil, the outcome would be different)

* The field was awful, a lot of players were slipping to the ground.

*The most important factor, these players are young. Brandley needs this type of match to teach and prepare them for the future. Let's not forget this part. They need to play to learn.

[Fred]

Question for Ives:

Does this loss affect the seedings for when the World Cup draw takes place? If yes, that could be bad. If we can be one of the top 8 seeds it gives us an easier route to the WC. It's vitally important for the US to attain that.

[A.S.]

What, BTW, is the difference between this game and the game we played earlier in Guatemala? We played equally horribly in both games - our full, veteran team (who have played together for a lot of matches) was terrible against Guatemala - they certainly didn't play any better than these guys played last night. No, the difference between the two matches was some terrible offsides calls (one of which took away a Jozy goal) and Jozy inexplicably missing the target from 3 yards out. In other words - the difference between our win in Guatemala and our loss last night was pure luck.

I have no doubt that this team would be almost as good as the team that played in Guatemala, if given the chance to play together as much as that team has played together.

[Geoff S.]

Agree we NJ guy that we looked small out there. We didn't play much bigger. Edu played poorly. Klejstan dissappointed after his last two appearances. Freddy showed glimpses of excitement but was muscled off of the ball numerous times, and falied to connect with Jozy in a way that many fans were hoping for. Davies has been extremely exciting the last two times seen in national team jersey, and I want to see more.

Even with that performace, I thought a result was not out of the question, and that is promising. I think T&T is a team that will not trouble our true starters too much in the next round.

I agree that Torres, Altidore, Adu, and Szetela are also players that we should see against in future camps/qualifiers.

I can see BB adding a couple more A-teamers to the mix for the Nov. game if for nothing more than to maintain continuity among the group, and I'll be excited to see what new faces get call ups. SA is still over a year and a half away, but I think BB did the right thing in this round by solidifying a nucleus for the team, and I think we'll see many of those faces in our WC starting 11, while some of the fresh blood we saw last night can come in and make impacts off the bench.

[Sam]

Why so serious everybody? We got exactly what we wanted out of that game: a Trinidad win, coupled with a Guatemala loss and an extremely tough, physical game with questionable refereeing while giving serious minutes to potential 2010 and beyond players. The learning experience from this game for the youth players is immeasurable. Surely this will leave players with a lot to work on and more hunger in their belly to perform better next time out.

Not to mention since the youth performed fairly poor, Bob Bradley can now call up the regular first team for the Guatemala game, playing for a win to eliminate them while not looking like the US are purposefully trying to eliminate Guatemala in favor of an easier Trinidad in the next round. Of course Trinidad only has to beat Cuba but still, we can get Trinidad in the next round ourselves for sure and we should do that.

[Tony in Quakeland]

Ives:

Thanks for the elaboration on Adu. I agree 100% and was really interested in what specific observations were part of your reconsideration.

[Ives]

A.S., do your comments ever not have the words "ludicrous" and "ridiculous" in them? Just curious. (Kidding)

I did enjoy this sentence from you though:

"The "A" team has been playing together for dozens of matches. They know how to play with each other."

And that is why the A-Team played the first four qualifiers. You must admit that there were fans calling for young guys to come in from day one and play.

And A.S., the lessons I wrote about where the ones learned by the young players, not by the fans who have been clamoring for them. I have a feeling at least some of those fans will accept that maybe they were a bit overzealous in wanting to see the young guys earlier in the qualifying round.

[Freddie Footballer]

I sure hope T&T fans are happy because they got lucky last night. They had everything going for them and they still barely got the win against a young USA squad.

[Jonny]

"I have no doubt that this team would be almost as good as the team that played in Guatemala, if given the chance to play together as much as that team has played together."

A.S., it's idiots like you that make it harder for those of us who actually have a clue about what is going on.

[MM]

Ives,

Yep, there is another qualifier next month. I've got tickets for it. It should be another youth team if BB does the right thing. My point is, without writing a novel, that we'll will have to wait till next year for the opportunity to mix the good & regular vets with the "inexperience" youth. Were not going to see much of the A-Team in Colorado nor should we.

[koriordan]

A.S.--too many assumptions, the most problematic of which is that, if the team that was trotted out yesterday were to play together for several games, they would necessarily play much better. True, they would play better, but not necessarily MUCH better.

Also, Bradley doesn't call in a roster for a two-game stint, in the situation the U.S. was in, and expect to have to make "last minute" decisions after releasing starters. Bradley knew he would probably get a home win against Cuba, and the U.S. would move on to the Hexagonal. The other roster choices were calculated, no haphazard, decisions.

And please--I used the word "clamor'; Ives didn't. Let go of it. The lesson was clearly learned, though.

[koriordan]

A.S.--too many assumptions, the most problematic of which is that, if the team that was trotted out yesterday were to play together for several games, they would necessarily play much better. True, they would play better, but not necessarily MUCH better.

Also, Bradley doesn't call in a roster for a two-game stint, in the situation the U.S. was in, and expect to have to make "last minute" decisions after releasing starters. Bradley knew he would probably get a home win against Cuba, and the U.S. would move on to the Hexagonal. The other roster choices were calculated, no haphazard, decisions.

And please--I used the word "clamor'; Ives didn't. Let go of it. The lesson was clearly learned, though.

[MM]

Ives,

Yep, there is another qualifier next month. I've got tickets for it. My point is that we are going to see another youth team for the US if Bob Bradley does the right thing. I would not expect much of the A-Team in Colorado. The idea of mixing the good and regular vets with the "inexperience" youth will have to wait till next year.

[dhawk]

I'm not sure I can add anything new here. I agree that overall the team was completely disjointed and played nervously. That comes with being inexperienced and a lack of time together on a big stage.

While some of the players showed good touches, there were an awful lot of poor first touches that lead to give aways or spaces closing down while the US player recovered the ball. Also the team bunched up at times like school boys, got stretched and didn't attack and defend as a unit.

That said, there is a lot to learn from this game and hopefully that was considered prior or will be considered in the future. For me the bright spots were Davies and Szetela. Davies showed a great work rate and wasn't afraid to mix it up in the box (where he scored). Szetela appears to have hunger and skill, his crosses were low and hard as apposed to the soft floaters seen in most of the game. I can't wait to see him play again!

[dhawk]

I'm not sure I can add anything new here. I agree that overall the team was completely disjointed and played nervously. That comes with being inexperienced and a lack of time together on a big stage.

While some of the players showed good touches, there were an awful lot of poor first touches that lead to give aways or spaces closing down while the US player recovered the ball. Also the team bunched up at times like school boys, got stretched and didn't attack and defend as a unit.

That said, there is a lot to learn from this game and hopefully that was considered prior or will be considered in the future. For me the bright spots were Davies and Szetela. Davies showed a great work rate and wasn't afraid to mix it up in the box (where he scored). Szetela appears to have hunger and skill, his crosses were low and hard as apposed to the soft floaters seen in most of the game. I can't wait to see him play again!

[Geoff S.]

Fred,

As much as I wish I was wrong, I dont think the US will get a seed anyway! We did everyhting we could 4 years ago (qualifying first in concacaf, ranked as high as #4 in the world, and coming off a great run in 02) but we still got the short end of the stick. I think for now, we'll have to be content with our streak of WC qualifications and hope for a good draw because we just dont have enough respect amongst the international footballing community.

[Al]

Fred - to answer your question about seeding. I think it doesn't directly effect the seeding. BUT, it will effect the FIFA ranking, which I believe is also used to determine the seeding at WC.

Ives or anyone else can correct me if I'm wrong.

[A.S.]

Ives, don't be ridiculous. :)

In any case, at least what I would have liked to see in the first 4 qualifiers is for the young guys to mixed and matched into the A-Team. Start Jozy in a game or two, start Freddie in a different game or two. Play Edu once instead of Michael Bradley. Play Orozco once instead of Boca or Gooch.

The problem I have with all of this analysis is that I think these new guys would play much better if there wasn't 6 or 8 of them all starting at the same time. I don't think anybody should expect these guys to play well, given the circumstances, when there isn't a cohesive core unit, with experience playing together, out there. Throwing every new guy on the field at the same time is unfair to them - the new guys should have been introduced into the team in a more methodical manner.

[A.S.]

Ives, don't be ridiculous. :)

In any case, what I would have liked to see in the first 4 qualifiers is for the young guys to mixed and matched into the "A" Team. Start Jozy in a game or two, start Freddie in a different game or two. Play Edu once instead of Michael Bradley. Play Orozco once instead of Boca or Gooch.

The problem I have with much of the analysis is that I think these new guys would play much better if there wasn't 6 or 8 of them all starting at the same time. I don't think anybody should expect these guys to play well, given the circumstances, when there isn't a cohesive core unit, with experience playing together, out there. Throwing every new guy on the field at the same time is unfair to them - the new guys should have been introduced into the team in a more methodical manner.

[Al]

A.S. - I agree with you. But, now that the US is secured for the Hex. I think BB should keep this same lineup against Guatemala (replace Hedjuk with Wynne). And let see how guys handle it. It'll at home, so there'll be more US supporter and the pitch won't be bumpy and slippery.

[zachary]

I enjoyed watching the young guns get some starts. I like Heydude, but it is time to start shopping for another right back substitute. I have seen wynne and he hasn't impressed me yet, but maybe he needs some more chances. He is extremely fast and hardworking (like heyduk), but his touches, crosses, and passes, suck (like heyduk). He lets the ball get way to far in front of him on his runs, no ball control.
I think Sacha needs to come back to center mid, I bet little bradley and him start there next game. edu will be on the bench. Yes Edu is very good (ignoring last night) but not as good as mikle bradley or sacha at center mid position.
i would like to see adu on the right wing, he has perfect crossing power and is a natural at taking people on. Yeah, swap sacha and adu in positions next game, bring little mikey in now that his suspension is over, and put altidore and davies up top. keep beas on the left, and keep the young players in the back so they can get their practice in, but replace heydude by wynne.

Of course, where does the new guy torres get to come in after his strong start? Okay, leave little Mikey Bradley out of next game and keep Torres in. Happy? Then bring Mike back in when the real games start again... a long with the rest of the A team.

Next game, keep giving our back ups and future A teamers practice.

Now here is a question, who will replace BEAS if he is hurt again? Convey? Eddie Lewis? I love Eddie Lewis, he is one of my favorite players. Can he play right back? Probably not.

Conclusions: swap adu with sacha in positions next game. Start Davies. Bring Marvelle Wynne in for Heydude. And Bring Mikle Bradley back? I guess bornstein will be pierce's back up. Since Pearce is so young, he gets to practice in the practice games too.

[Engin Blue]

I came away really impressed with Torres. He had a few bad decisions here and there but he has excellent touch, vision, and passing ability. He is exactly what we need in the midfield, especially contrasted with Sacha and Maurice's dreadful performances. We simply can't give up possession so cheaply like those two were. Better teams (see Argentina, Spain, England) will make us pay.

There was one sequence in particular where Torres combined with Beasley and Altidore (i think) deep in T&T's half that was great to see.

[zachary]

you think torres makes the A team now? I've been assuming that little Mikle Bradley had that all sewn up, followed by Klijestan. You think Torres takes Klijestan's spot? I was basing Klijestan on the last few games, edu has actually gotten more starts there. so you think one game puts torres ahead of them? Or do you think he desreves more B team games and more chances to sub in for the A team?

[zachary]

Okay, just answer this question Engin,
Who do you think by 2010 will be our central starting mid fielders. (By this time I hope Adu is on the right wing as a sub for dempsey).

[Jason]

I'm mostly disappointed that DMB didn't step up when the team needed him the most. Being the captain and one of the most experienced players on the team, I would expect him to get the team together. The boys played poorly, but that's nothing to panic about. The fact that they looked lost out there was more disconcerting.

Edu - Had a forgettable night. He's much better than that. He'll bounce back but Michael Bradley and Pablo are ahead of him at this point.

Adu - Still very weak on the ball. It's getting very evident he dislikes contact and the simplest fouls can get under his skin. If his strength and poise doesn't develop, he might be better suited out on the left wing rather than anywhere in the middle of the field.

Altidore - Looked gassed most of the night. Perhaps he wasn't as ready for a full 90 as we thought. His bullish run to set up the goal was nice but he looks a bit lost with his back to the goal.

Torres - Good composure on the ball. Showed strong work rate defensively. It might have been his assignment but he didn't flash much of his offensive skills or creativity. I'd like to see him at least one more time.

Davies - Hopefully displayed enough to get a start or at least 45 minutes of action at the next qualifier. I only wonder if he can be as relentless for a full match as opposed to the brief minutes we've seen of him this year.

Now that Cooper has received a call up but declined it, time to move on and start the bandwagon for Jeremiah White. At the very least, White can play the right wing position where we haven't had a serviceable player there since Ernie Stewart. (Excluding Donovan as he's too valuable to be put out wide.)

[zach]

Is adu right or left footed? I think he could be a great right wingman, but if he is left footed i guess not.

[John]

The argument that the young guys didn't look so good because Bradley hasn't played them enough is, well, silly.

It's not like Adu has been burning things up with Monaco. Or Altidore with Villareal (and don't forget, his season with the Redbulls was quite forgetable this season). Many of these young guys aren't impressing at the club level either. And you forget that separate from Bradenton (which a bunch of them have seen quite well as U-whatever players), many of them have a lot of U20 and Olympic team caps. These guys are not international virgins.

And while I don't underestimate the challenge of winning on the road in Concacaf, let's be brutally honest here: T&T is not a very good side.

All of the criticisms that Ives had of players like Adu and Altidore are not things that just appeared this game. Altidore looked like he was on walkabout this season with the Redbulls. Adu--ever since his rookie year in MLS, the rap on him has been:
--he disappears for long stretches of the match/he just zones out, doesn't call for the ball, doesn't move off the ball, doesn't show for the ball and you're effectively playing a man down
--he's a one-way player who doesn't defend, rarely contributes in other ways by winning balls or marking up off the ball and doesn't show a high work rate.

Go look at Orozco's play in the Olympics (some good moments, a couple of really boneheaded moments).

I think the world of this young talent. But most young talent never gets beyond the "potential stage." If, between Adu, Rogers, Altidore, Orozco, Edu, Szetela, and Davies we get 2 players who end up being starters for the USMNT for the next decade and 1 who ends up being a star (as in: a player that a top team in the Premiership would consider having on their bench if not start--thus, better than Donovan), than I will argue we're ahead of the game and beating the odds. Most of these guys are never going to be more than MLS or lower Euro league players who have good moments, earn a bunch of caps, but never end up being great. That's just the odds of how young talent develops. That great U-17 side with Ellinger that produced Donovan, DMB (who more and more looks like sort of a defender), Convey (who is not looking like a NT regular), Beckerman (who might earn a spot as the 2010 or 2014 version of Ben Olsen for the NT, ie: our 22nd or 23rd player) and Gooch is looking like a freak (in terms of the number of real NT contributors we got from it).

People need to be realistic. Put the young guys in situations where they can succeed. Most of the growth has to occur at the club level. Don't expect most of them to become serious NT contributors in 2014. If 2 of them make the 2010 roster, that will be impressive.

[Jason]

Zach - Adu is left footed. He wouldn't do well out on the right.

[koriordan]

Al--c'mon we just had this conversation!. If you are going to keep the same line-up, but put Wynne in for Frankie, why don't you just put Joseph Gyau and Carlos Martinez on the roster?

Just messin' with ya.

[zachary]

we have more options for left footed left wingman than we do for right footed right wing man. Mapp, beas, adu and is convey left footed? v dempsey?

[Jason]

Zachary - Convey is also left footed. As is Eddie Lewis and Torres.

Our pool doesn't have anyone who naturally plays on the right wing which is a concern.

[zachary]

Well, That is surprising. But don't forget how good Dempsey was on the right wing in 2006. The only reason he was put up top as a striker was because Fulham needed him there when McBride was hurt. Then the National team starting playing him there. This is stupid, he is a great right winger, but he just needs to get back practicing and playing there to get back in the mold. It can be hard on players to move from position to position. I wish they had just left him on the right.

[zach]

But we have a plethora of lefties. Wow. All of them are good too. I take back everything about Adu on the right wing, let him back up donovan or beas and eddie lewis on the left. still, who do we put to back up dempsey?

[Jason]

Zachary - I think Dempsey is our best right wing option at this point. I thought he was fantastic in 2006. Somehow his form has fallen and he seems to be chugging along rather than playing with that old flare we were used to seeing. Maybe it's the food in England? Who knows.

With that said, I would like to see Jeremiah White play out there. He's not a natural right winger but he can at least play the position and should be given a look with the USMNT.

[A.S.]

"I think BB should keep this same lineup against Guatemala (replace Hedjuk with Wynne). And let see how guys handle it. It'll at home, so there'll be more US supporter and the pitch won't be bumpy and slippery."

Yup. I wouldn't mind switching up the back line - bring in DeMerit or Conrad at center back, and Wynne or Bornstein (or both) at right and left. But let the guys up front play some more together.

[Engin Blue]

@zachary
One game doesn't guarantee a spot for anyone, no matter how much potential they show. But Torres does deserve a longer look for 2010. I think M.Bradley still has his spot secured because of his ability to disrupt the opponent's attack, even if he draws stupid cards at times. In a 4-4-2 I like Donovan up top with a target forward (Ching/Altidore) or slightly back centrally in a 4-2-3-1. Dempsey and Beasley are our best options on the wings. So that leaves someone to pair with Bradley. Edu and Mastroeni are the defensive options. Sacha and Adu are the offensive options. Torres fits both roles which is why I'm pretty high on him at the moment. If he pans out he could have the role Feilhaber had during the gold cup.

I see Adu as Donovan's sub or an attacking midfielder until he proves he's no longer a defensive liability. He's not fast enough to justify playing on the wing without defending. Sacha and Torres could sub on the wings.

I hope Torres gets more time regardless of the situation. whether its starts with the B team or as a sub with the A team. I think he could fill a big hole in the team and we need to figure out if he can be consistent.

[zach]

What happened to Feilhaber? He always had good showings, and then one day was gone. Also, Beckerman??? He always looked strong too.

Try to sub Sacha for Dempsey after last night? He must have shown a history strong performances on the right that I don't know about. Otherwise we need a new player to back up dempsey.
I agree, adu subs for donovan, beas, or ching. Is EJ gone for good?

[Engin Blue]

@zach
Feilhaber needs to get his head right and get some playing according to BB. He looked rusty the last friendly he played in and didn't make the olympics.

I never said Sacha would play over Dempsey, but we do need someone who can provide a different look when Dempsey disappears from games. He definitely had a terrible game last night but what is our alternative? I agree we need new options.

I'm done with EJ until he finds some touch to go with that pace.

[Jason]

Engin Blue - Feilhaber did make it on the Olympic team. He didn't get much playing time though.

I really hope Feilhaber gets it together quickly. He is IMO the only US player with his particular skill set and we could really use him.

[Engin Blue]

@Jason
My mistake, I meant he got dropped from the olympic qualifying team. In any case he definitely hasn't been on form. It would be great to have him back in the mix when he is though.

[Manny F]

Ives what is it with all these teams using a lone striker? I have always hated the idea of only having one player up top. I love that idea of having your JPA type player and then the Owen type. That to me seems to work. Bradley dropped the ball by starting Jozy up top alone. He always works better when paired up. I don't believe he has ever scored playing up top by himself. Davies showed that quality that I like in a second forward, and seemed to pick up Jozy's game up, I don't know thats my opinion. I hope the next game the two are paired with Adu tucked right behind them.

[timpramas]

Lots of comments from other posters, so I will try not to repeat points others have made.

The last qualifier in this round comes in the middle of MLS playoffs. I believe the game is midweek, after the conclusion of the first round of playoffs. I assume Coach Bradley will only call up MLS players from teams that did not make the playoffs and teams eliminated in the first round.

I agree Adu needs to show more movement when he doesn't have the ball so he can serve as an outlet for teammates looking to pass the ball. I don't think it is fair to criticize him for not dropping deeper back to help on defense. In the formation the US was using last night, Adu was at the top of a center midfield triangle with two more defensively positioned center midfielders behind him. Adu's job in that formation is to stay higher so he can collect passes from those behind him and help transition to the attack.

Davies has looked good in limited minutes. I would like to see if his energy and work rate is a product of him coming in knowing there are only 10-15 minutes left in the game, or if this is something he can do as a starter playing extended minutes.

I'd like to see Szetela get extended minutes at right outside mid against Guatemala. His ball control, work rate, composure on the ball and instincts seemed good in limited minutes.

I'm a Revs fan, so I hope they are still in the playoffs at the time of the next qualifier. If not, I'd like to see him play against Guatemala. There has been the concern that Parkhurst may not be an international quality defender, but he has played well enough for long enough in MLS that he deserves an extended look (in November and in the January MNT camp). Positioning is one of his strenghts and I don't know if T & T gets that first goal if Parkhurst is on the field.

Who does the US play at center D if Onyewu or Bocanegra get hurt, or miss a game for yellow card accumulation? DeMerit played well in the Gold Cup but sometimes doesn't win as many balls in the air as you would think he should win. If Orozco keeps starting for his club team, I like his potential as well.

It is often said that the longer one practices at a skill, the better one gets at that skill. Watching Shaq "shoot" free throws and Hedjuk "hit" crosses makes me wonder if that is true.

I am concerned that Coach Bradley still sees a reason to call Mastroeni into the team. His tackling is still reckless and he is good for a yellow or red card every game. No matter how many times he gets carded, he still leaves his feet and dives late into an opponent. Someday I hope he thinks to himself that "maybe I should stay on my feet." Given the plethora of center midfield options, there is no reason to call him up again.

This isn't the first game where Kljestan has made numerous unforced turnovers. I see the potential, so I understand why he gets playing time, but I don't trust him yet in a big game.