Your take on the USA win vs. Guatemala

                                                                       Photo by ISIphotos.com

Good evening folks. I have finally completed the day-long journey from Guatemala to New Jersey (well, almost completed, I'm in New York right now) and it was good to see the healthy discussions taking place on SBI regarding the U.S. team's win against Guatemala on Wednesday night.

For those of you who haven't seen it, here is my take on the USA-Guatemala game for ESPN.com.

Before I drive to Jersey for the final leg of my trip, I want to do a survey on what SBI readers actually thought about the match. I know there were plenty of comments about it, but I want to see some actual statistics. So it's time for a poll (feel free to share more thoughts on the match, and on your reasonings for your selection in the poll below):

poll by twiigs.com

Comments

[brian]

certainly not the most eye pleasing result, but its exactly the type of game we will continue to play in wcq. sure youd like to run circles around these central american teams in the jungle and win 5-0, but an ugly 1-0 win gives the team confidence that it can win games in central america when nothing seems to go right. wouldnt read to much into the result, aside from the 3 points, in this game. but we will likely have to go back to g city in the hex, and hopefully can get a similar result! of course any time you can get a win on the road in concacaf wcq, its terrific.

[Murphy]

I didn't comment on Ives's story, so I'll comment here. Yeah it was a "gutsy" win in a tough environment, but the way Guatemala was moving down the wings with ease and getting many more chances on goal was disheartening to say the least. The supposed best team in CONCACAF should be able to play a little better vs. a team like Guatemala. There were few sustained attacks by the U.S. Donovan didn't do much at all, and Mastroeni is a red card waiting to happen every game. Good thing Howard was in goal.

[MemRook]

all i know is we had better continue to see beasley. he is so important to our squad and our dynamics as a team. others nats should take a lesson in composure from him.

[evan]

i agree completely about beasley. granted it was after a red card, but pearce, who everyone says looked terrible, didnt look so bad having someone not in their mid-30s playing in front of him. lewis made pearce look bad and it goes to show that beasley is an important piece in the puzzle.

[Fred]

Fire Bradley! Hire Alexi Lalas!

[Neumannator]

I was stunned by how thoroughly the U.S. was outplayed, disgusted by what appeared to be them getting outhustled, but impressed that they could pull an away win out of such a poor performance
(notwithstanding the last 30 minutes). If you can finish your chances, you win games and I'll at least give them credit for that.

[Steve]

In games like this, you expect your best players to step up and lead your team to victory.

Howard, Boca and Beasley did....Dempsey and Donovan didn't. I think that speaks volumes.

[golfstrom]

"Awful match that should lead to Bob Bradley being fired"

ives channels the BS contingent perfectly. win a wcq for the first time in 20 yrs at guatemala. logical conclusion: fire bradley!

[Johnny]

A win is a win...but there are some things that I worry about.

-Without set pieces how do we score?
-What has happened to Clint Dempsey?
-If Tim Howard ever has a serious injury this team will be in big trouble. I like Brad Guzan but right now he is no Timmy.

[Adam]

Bradley got really lucky

his strategy of wait until something major happens (red card, goal for either side, critical yellow card) before he makes a change is going to come back and haunt us against tougher competition. Guatemala could've easily had the lead before the red card, should've held on to the man advantage, and could've easily had a 2nd goal.

Beasley made an impact as a sub, but who knows when Bradley would have brought him on if things had stayed 11v11

I'm not saying he should be fired or anything but we were pretty lucky to get out of there with a win

[RK]

Good to know that a majority are sane.

[michael]

I think a lot of them were playing not to get injured. The Euro season is just starting and I think a lot of them didn't want to sacrifice too much against a Guatemalan who looked like they were out there to end careers.

Go in, get a point or more, and get out healthy. I can't ask for anything more.

[Pat the Red Bulls Fan]

Since Bob Bradley has showed up, and throwing out the Copa America third string team, the full, first choice USMNT has only lost to Sweden, Brazil, England and Spain. 4 losses in 24 matches. 17 wins 4 losses and 3 draws.

We haven't turned the corner where we're beating those world class teams, but that's not BB's fault, yet.

But, if he doesn't get Cooper, Jozy and Adu in the mix to add some offensive spunk, we will not beat those world class teams.

[stever]

A street fight maybe the apt description but even so a number of players failed to rise to the occasion. Bradley has been brave to look at numerous players over the past year, now perhaps he should be brave in selecting a team for the long haul into the World Cup. The Olympic was good proving ground and perhaps the framework for the future - Adu, Edu and Altidore must surely feature. US squad have great potential, Bradley needs to now crasp opportunity and look forward.

[James]

I wish there had been an option between a and b. I guess it was impressive as we hadn't won there before, and it certainly was important (beating the toughest other team in the group on their field). But it was more of an ugly, effort win and there was some sloppiness to it. Enough to vote for option b? Not sure. "Needs to play better"? In that environment? "Needs" is a strong word. To advance - even in the Hex - a tie on the road is pretty much good enough if you take care of business at home.

I would have said "a good win, a scrappy win. Good show of heart and character."

[cbr]

is it time to reevaluate Dempsey's role with the nats? I really think this guy needs to run at ppl and not be played up top.

It is also seriously time to consider sending a "goon" squad down to central america. We are not deep enough to survive "street fights" often. THese teams clearly have no intention of playing football and we shouldnt either. Anyone remember where Tab Ramos' last major career ending injury happend? Yep, central america. He was never the same after that.

[stever]

Lets put the Qualifiers to one side and maybe ask question how wud US fair against say the Czech team, this must now be our measure if we are to truely reach World stage. And I believe we have the making of a team to achieve that but we need Bradley to be bold on his team selection and perhaps look to balance youth and experience from the European based players.

[Seriously?]

I feel somewhat bad saying this, due to what lead to him being taken off, but I was just begging Bradley (from my couch, he should have heard me) to take Lewis off. I realize that he may have had a limit on minutes for Beasley, due to his just returning from injury, but Lewis did nothing. As I implied though, I certainly would never have wished that Lewis be taken off because someone had just tried to behead him.

One of the only players I would ever wish injury on would be the Carlos Ruiz. Another would be whoever that utter coward was that kneed Alexi Lalas in the groin as the US and Mexican players were milling about those many years ago; and of course, Ulf Samuelsson. It’s one thing to play hard, or whatever you want to call it, but the players I mention don’t play hard, they play with literally no respect for their fellow professionals, and therefore, are a disgrace to their profession. I love the fact that Ruiz could just kick Timmy in the head, after the keeper had long since gotten possession of the ball, and not even get a talking to, but Timmy gets carded for yelling at Ruiz after the attempted phony apology.

In closing, I didn’t vote, because none of the choices really fit my thoughts on the game. I'd it was an ugly but important win, and though I wouldn’t say I was impressed, I was very happy with the result and wouldn’t complain about it.

[Mike Caramba]

I say we stop holding the USA to 1990s standards.  We won--great. But we really should be able to put up a better fight. It was always going to be difficult, but I, personally, think could have held a bit more possession and put together a few more dangerous attacks.

Perhaps I'm holding the US to too high of a standard...

[mig22]

That is the problem with polls. If option a) didn't include the word "impressive" I would have went for it.

But given that the MNT's ambitions are higher than qualifying for the WC, then I guess I'll go with b) and say, to achieve our aims, the team NEEDS to play better.

Interesting results though to the poll. Currently only 15% picked the truly negative answers.

Cheers,

[Mike Caramba]

I never thought I'd say this about an American coach, but I think Bradley puts too much stock in players with European clubs.  Just because Corrales played in Europe doesn't mean he was worthy of a call-up...just because Zizzo moved to Germany didn't mean he was ready for the senior national team...call me crazy, but I bet if Cooper had moved to Rosenborg, he would have gotten a spot on this roster.

I guess this comment isn't really about the Guatemala match...just a minor beef I've got with Bob

[Ives]

Golfstrom, that obviously isn't my take on the match, but since I know there is a minority who feel that way I wanted to present the full range of responses. The stats definitely shed some light into just how U.S. soccer fans as a whole saw the result. What I can't help but wonder is if those five percent voting for D look at the stats and think that maybe they are off base, or do they think they are intelligent minority.

[Luis]

Honestly, anytime you can win in Guate is crucial. I just don't like how many soft turnovers this team still commits. Maybe it's a result of raised expectations, or perhaps I've gotten spoiled watching Spain in the Euro Cup, but Team USA gives up possession far too casually for my taste. Solve that problem, and these qualifiers will get real simple, even on the road in hostile environments. It's hard to have a bad call go against you when you are possessing the ball and keeping yourself out of trouble.

[Paul]

Excellent point made earlier about DMB's critical role. As the cliche goes, he truly makes people around him better. His defensive work against Argentina was impressive, and last night he completely changed the picture all up and down the left flank. The most troubling and persistent issues seem, to me, to be Dempsey's mysterious funk and BB's inability or unwillingness to find a comfortable and effective position for Donovan. BB is going to have to step out on a limb and give Donovan a CAM role -- removing a holding mid in the process -- if this team is to have any chance of stepping up in class.

[Sam]

Fire Bradley. Fire Gulati.

[Aquaman]

The only good thing about playing against Guatemala when they're so dirty and physical is watching them try to get physical with Onyewu....he may get burned by little guys at times, but watching those guys try to get physical with him is hilarious.

[Mike Caramba]

Hire Rongen. Hire Lalas. Ha!

[Matt]

I don't know if we deserved a win but it was a good result. I wouldn't have been surprised if Guatemala had won. The US was poor in the attack but very good in the back. It was a lucky three points.

[eduardo]

it is shocking to me how a lot of people always try to sugarcoat things . we were outplayed , plain and simple . if guatemala had somewhat decent finishing we would have lost that game 4-1 . there was no ideas on offense , no ball control . we are still playing the long ball far too often ; in other words : we were the minor team blasting the ball away everytime the oposite team got closer to our goal .have we really advance specially on the ofensive side since bradley took over the team ? we can only score from set pieces thanks to oguchi and bocanegra . do we really have a plan ? do we show more composture when we have the ball ? yesterday we were outplayed in the first half . did mr. bradley do any tactical adjustment or any change that improved our performance before the red card ?. do we really think that we are gonna go pass the first round in south africa regardless of any group we may get ? right now the answer of all those questions is a clear no therefore we're not going foward with mr. bradley .

[mikeK]

Outplayed? Please. If we were outplayed, the score would have favored the home side. Fact is, we got the 3 points. We win. Quite simply, I don't care if they played head tennis with the ball for 90 minutes and we chased the whole game, or if we stomped them, so long as we win.

Yes, this team isn't there yet, and they're not ready for the world cup. We certainly need some creativity in the central of the park, but this is why we're going to hold our cards tight to our vest, let Freddy and Jozy learn to play soccer with the best of them, and most of all, avoid the flying Guatemalans and stay fit for the campaign in Europe.

[Randolph Merriman the Third]

I voted for b, but either way, Bob still has to go.

[J]

I agree about the outplayed comment. The team ranked 30th something was forced to use long ball against the team ranked 100th something. The latter was able to build up play from their half to the US half with some precise enough passing. Both teams had horrible finishing though.

[jmac]

I like these post match polls - keep them coming, ives!

[Dylan]

The possesion was so much better when Edu came in.

I think Edu should be starting over Pablo.

[crash2180]

The surprising thing about this poll was that over 80% of you were not disappointed with this performance against an inferior opponent. Really, not disappointed!

[Scott]

There is simply no excuse for playing so poorly against any team, much less Guatemala. Why did the United States wait until after they scored to prove they were capable of passing? Bob Bradley needs to implement some type of system into the team that involves consistent passing of the ball. Last time I checked, possession usually leads to winning games as well as the reverse. If the US can't even possess the ball, control the game and create quality chances from the run of play against Guatemala, we are in trouble.

[McSorley]

We need to send Kenny Cooper down there to kick the p#$$ out of those cheap shot hack artists. Those Guatemalans were an absolute freaking disgrace. But it's their whole sports culture that blows -- did you hear their reporters after the game? They're like the douchebag in Jr. High that you beat in Nintendo and then he complains that his controller was sweaty, the computer was against him somehow, the gravitational pull of the moon disrupted him, etc. etc.

[Gabe]

Bradley is certainly good at something or his record wouldn't be what it is. There's definitely a problem here, though. We could blame the pipeline of players (we have no scary forwards, period.) We could blame the "street fighting" atmosphere of the game. Personally, I think the problem is players like Landon Donovan. Talented, no doubt. But talent alone just doesn't cut it. He (and some others) just seems to be missing "something."

[Phillip]

Ives, the photo you used above is obviously a fake. There was never, at any time last night, that much light on the field.

[Danielito]

Ives,

Can you please give a definitive, first-hand account of the lighting at the stadium? On tv, it looked as if they were playing in semi-darkness (at best). Behind the goals, the fans appeared to be in the dark. Can this be attributed to ESPN's horrible, non-HD cameras, or was it in fact akin to the Red Bulls playing the Open Cup in Annapolis?

[Mike Caramba]

--there's a big difference between outplaying and winning. No one is mad that we got 3 points--I believe all nats fans are satisfied. But that doesn't mean we can't be upset or discouraged that the Guatemalans got the better of the play

--about the light, it could have also been the cameras. Obviously I wasn't there and can't speak diffinitively, but there's always a possibility that the darkness was the result of the f-stop settings on the cameras.

[Greg]

"Outplayed? Please. If we were outplayed, the score would have favored the home side. Fact is, we got the 3 points. We win. Quite simply, I don't care if they played head tennis with the ball for 90 minutes and we chased the whole game, or if we stomped them, so long as we win."

Mike... it was GUATEMALA. And yes, we were thoroughly outplayed for 63 minutes. And yes, we actually ran the same gameplan we use for Argentina/Brazil/Spain on Wednesday night.

Just wait, as soon as they drop a result to a CONCACAF team not named "Mexico", every single one of you Bradley apologists will go through the roof in unison.

[Mario in SJ]

STOP with the outplayed stuff. This was a street brawl where our guys had to hold their nerves and not lash out like the Gutes did to Lewis. You cannot take anything from this game (well, 3 pts) other than the fact that we played good defense as a TEAM. We did it to Italy (WC2006), we did it to Argentina a few months ago. This will be a clear message to the minnows in CONCACAF that their thuggery and antics are going to get them NOTHING.

[Ives]

Phillip, that photo looks to have been treated with some additional lighting to offset the darkness of the natural image.

As for the lighting at the game, it was definitely dark but I think there were patches on the field darker than others.

[Strider]

I think that a bit of perspective is needed here. We all need to remember that the Olympics just ended for the US and we needed to rest some people from that (Adu, Altidore, etc.). This is also the heart of the MLS season and Bradley may be smarter than some realize and not call in Cooper as an effort to work with Hyndman, a new coach in a difficult position. Perhaps at a different time he would have chosen different players. While I love Eddie L, he is obviously past his prime. Both he and Pablo were there to provide experience. It was obvious that Edu made a difference when he came on, but it was good that he had the opportunity to learn some from the bench first in this kind of environment. I think we need to be realistic and recognize that while there is certainly room for improvement, it was good to get this result. Now we need to build on it.

[SeaOtter]

"Outplayed? Please. If we were outplayed, the score would have favored the home side. Fact is, we got the 3 points. We win. Quite simply, I don't care if they played head tennis with the ball for 90 minutes and we chased the whole game, or if we stomped them, so long as we win."

MikeK - Come on now. You wouldn't have us believe that you haven't watched sports much would you? It is possible - happens quite often really - for a team to be outplayed and still win.

I'm sure that the players who hadn't played in a qualifier before - Barbados doesn't count - learned quite a lot. What I'm hopeful for is that Bob learned some things as well, and that he actually puts them into practice.

I know that it will not happen, but I would like for him to be replaced.

[j1m]

Mario in SJ - kudos for the sanity. Anyone trying to convince me that Guatemala was even there to play soccer gets a laugh in the face.

Their strategy was:
1. Mug a player to gain possession.
2. Run up wing on counter attack.

You can't play "beatifully" with someones cleats embedded in your leg.And you can't change you game to become thugs if you aren't thugs to begin with. Pando, Ruiz, and company have had years to hone that skill. All we have is Mastroeni.

What you can do is persevere and rise above.

[tedhill]

While watching the first half, I thought it was going to be one of those games. The US was losing possession, giving away the ball cheaply, and didn't mount really any scoring chances of significance. Guatemala several times got behind our back line and had opportunites. The US just looked horrendously out of form and not prepared. I was fearing the 1-0 or 2-0 loss. I've seen games like this before and we just don't handle them well.

Things got worse with the dismissal of Cherundolo. We are the dumbest team when it comes to silly fouls and cards. I hate it. It costs us in the 2006 World Cup and the 2008 Olympics. I thought it would do us in again. Luckily Guatemala's malicious play led to the straight red for them and at least it was 10-v-10.

Then we scored, thanks to a great delivery, and some suspect marking in the box. Then what surprised me the most was that we were able to kill off the game. The US is usually very bad at that but this time we had some good possession and limited the scoring opportunities. Overall a good win for the squad, it's a fantastic result for this group stage. Still though, we must play better, we can't engage ourselves in those types of games all the time.

Last thing, for the return leg the US needs to call up a no name and have him make Carlos Ruiz' leg resemble that of Eduardo da Silva. Seriously, Ruiz is a dirty player and hopefully someone goes Rico Clark on his ___ again.

[mig22]

Again, most everything has been covered pretty well but let's assume for a second that Bradley is not a complete idiot (I don't think he is stupid btw). So, is it concerning that he did not apparently change tactics after halftime. I may have seen a bit more of Donovan in the center and Dempsey might have moved a bit out to the right...but not too much.

So the major problem (as noted by Eduardo above) is that nothing significant changed after halftime (and before the ejections). Why? I'm not for firing Bradley but he DOES seem to be a rather cautious tactician. Even with Adu, Altidore, Cooper, does he have the tactical imagination to train this team to have creative offense? That remains to be seen.

Thoughts?

[EA]

If we would have started Davies, Nyugen, Subotic and Cervi, we would have won 13 to -6.

I'm very disappointed in getting a win.

[Il Consigliere]

When the line-up was revealed just before kick-off, was I the only one who thought: "we are going to have trouble creating scoring chances"? With Bradley and Pablo in the middle, I just knew chances would be at a premium b/c they are not creative and they both tend to give the ball away. I think Adu when called in) or Donovan should play behind the strikers to give us a bit of drive and creativity going forward...I thought 0-0 when seeing the line-up, and I think we were lucky to escape with all 3 points...

[dg]

The biggest frustration for me this game was not making any changes at halftime tactically. We were getting OUTPLAYED and up to the point when Lewis was clocked, it was clear Bradley was looking for 0-0.

The game changed after it went to 10 v 10 and Bradley was FORCED to remove Dempsey, Lewis, and Mastroeni. If he wasn't forced by injuries, would Bradley have made those subs in time to make a difference in the game? Was he waiting for Guatemala to score?

The bunker down and boot-it tactics, plus these questions are why the US performance was a disappointment

[Tim K]

WE NEED ALTIDORE AND ADU!!!!! enough said!

[DM]

The US won't win pretty until it can control the midfield. Likewise, it will continue struggle to win "big" games until the players develop some sort of composure late in matches.

[Mike Caramba]

@SeaOtter
"It is possible...for a team to be outplayed and still win."

I'm not not sure why my message was unclear, but that is exactly what I said. Of course I'm happy to take 3 points away, but I'm a little bit discouraged and disappointed by being outplayed. For those saying this was the gameplan all along, I completely disagree. We did not go into Guatemala saying, "Okay, let's let Guatemala control the majority of the possession and take twice as many shots on goal." Of course the US set out to play a defensive game, but that usually entails holding a majority of possession and minimizing your opponents' shots on goal. Neither was accomplished. Why are people angry that there are some less-than-satisfied fans out there? There have been many times this team has struggled to hold possession and create chances on goal...they rely too heavily on heaving longballs from the back (although they do utilize the wingbacks pretty well at times)...there are problems that need to be worked on. I'm not worried about qualifying. I'm a little worried about other, more important games (and no, it's not based on just this one performance).

[Seriously?]

OK, for all of you telling us how disappointed we should be, and calling for Bradley to be fired because we don't have enough possession, could you please explain why this is down to the national team coaching? Are there a lot of American players who’d have been able to go into that cauldron on Weds night and played some pretty, Brazil 1970 style game, or even some approximation of it, who you think Bradley’s not calling up? Would the presence of Kenny Cooper have transformed the midfield behind him to be able to hold the ball long enough to get good service to the forwards, or would Adu really have spent more time standing up instead of being on the ground having been pushed or kicked down? Or do you think that the team is very skillful, but Bradley is telling them to make 2 to 3 passes amongst themselves, and then give the ball to the other team and rush back to defend?

I’m obviously being a bit facetious with the last question, but seriously, player for player, the US is not there yet. A national team coach isn’t can only do so much, he can’t develop players, he can only use what he has available to him. It’s funny to me how we always read people complaining about how the US youth system seems to only create hard running, hard working solid players, but doesn’t really develop any truly skillful players, and then we hear people complain that the national team players don’t play this beautiful skillful game.

Yes, if Beasley had been on the field from the start, that would have helped, but was he available. I don’t actually like Ching on the National team, but the forwards didn’t really get enough support to really even be judged. Donovan definitely has his problems fading in and out of games, but do we have enough players to not have him start? Dempsey has a lot of skill, but I don’t think he’s the kind of player who can run a team. While I certainly do have some questions regarding Bradley and his choices/decisions, I just feel that we have a lot of players at a certain level, and while it’s certainly a decent level, it’s not world class.

[Adam]

If we don't score that goal on a set piece, and the game finishes 0-0.. everybody here pleased with the performance is calling for Bradley's head. Guatemala totally outplayed us for the first 60 minutes... just look at how many opportunities each team had in the game. Our best chances were headers off of set pieces and shots from 40 yards out.

I wasn't really pleased with the starting lineup but I can overlook that somewhat. The biggest problem with Bradley is he came back out in the 2nd half and made NO adjustments. He only makes adjustments when he is forced to. Anybody that doesn't think that is a problem is lying to themselves or doesn't know the game of soccer very well.

[Jason]

mig22 - Agreed. Bradley made the right adjustments but only because Lewis was knocked out (bring in Beasley) and Cherundolo pulled an Orozco (put on Hejduk). However, he is getting results. 3 points is 3 points and we have to be happy with that even if it was just off a set piece and Howard was god-like in goal.

This dual defensive mid formation is starting to bother me. It was a great idea to stop the attack and spring counters, but when only Edu seems capable of passing the ball to his own teammates, it makes me wonder if another line up is more suitable with our roster. What's the point of stopping an attack only to pass it right back to the opposition?

Dempsey still looks tired which surprises me. We all gave him a free pass in his previous performances because of his time in Fulham but with the off season to recoup, we would expect him to show some life out there. Very concerning and wondering what's going on with him.

[Pissacdito]

The fish should move to the WWF!