A look back at the USA-Netherlands match

                                                                                       Photo by ISIphotos.com

It's okay to admit it. The U.S. Olympic team's 2-2 tie vs. the Netherlands feels like a loss, doesn't it? Just seconds from the biggest win in U.S. men's Olympic history and a sequence of poor decisions leads to a late Dutch equalizer and the painful feeling you would normally associate with a defeat.

Yes, it felt like a loss, but it certainly was not a loss.

That final play can't be forgotten and ignored, but it also shouldn't overshadow what was still one of the best performances an American team has put together in an international tournament. After being dominated for the first 20 minutes and trailing by a goal, the U.S. team responded with quality soccer and fearlessness.

No, the U.S. team's comeback and 2-1 lead were no fluke, the Americans outplayed the Dutch for 65 of minutes. There was no bunkering, no hitting and hoping. The U.S. team moved the ball around, created quality chances and defended well for a majority of the game. It was a quality performance made more impressive by the fact that it came a Dutch team regarded as a medal favorite, and a Dutch team that came into the match needing a result.

Yes, Gerald Sibon's goal spoiled the day and leaves the U.S. team needing a tie against Nigeria to progress to the quarterfinals, but a challenge like that shouldn't be seen as a curse. An event like the Olympic soccer tournament isn't just about the medals on the line. It is also about young players earning unforgettable experiences and facing difficult challenges. It is about showing the world  what your country's soccer is about, about proving that you can play the game well.

The Americans proved that against the Dutch. From Freddy Adu's tricky dribbles to Sacha Kljestan's dangerous runs to Jozy Altidore's burgeoning promise as a big-game striker, to Michael Bradley's composure and presence in the middle of the field, the U.S. team provided ample evidence that this country is producing skilled soccer players and progressing beyond the disappointment of the 2006 World Cup.

From a team standpoint, watching the U.S. defense come together after a slow start and watching the U.S. midfield create and control against a team as good as the Netherlands were what made Sunday's game a memorable one and important one in the evolution of the men's national team.

Yes, there were mistakes, but to expect no mistakes in what is essentially an Under-23 tournament is a bit much. Almost every team in the Olympic Tournament has had to deal with errors, from the Dutch to Argentina. It is easy to forget how young these players are when you have such a good competition (and yes, I have been guilty of that as well).

What the Americans were guilty of on Sunday was not being used to a situation like that, beating a high-level opponent and knowing how to finish them off. The Dutch were a beaten team and ripe to be finished off, but the U.S. team didn't have the experience to do it. You only develop that killer instinct by putting yourself in those situations regularly, something we just might see if this young and strong generation of American talent continues to develop.

The Netherlands match is history though, and what matters now is that the Americans control their own fate on Wednesday. Beat or tie Nigeria and the U.S. team advances out of what is, without question, the toughest group in the Olympics. Beat Nigeria and the U.S. team wins the toughest group in the Olympics. Yes, playing Nigeria without standouts Freddy Adu and Michael Bradley will be tough, but the situation also creates an opportunity for players such as Altidore, Kljestan, Benny Feilhaber and Danny Szetela to step up and show what this team is made of.

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What did you think of Sunday's match? Have you changed your view of the result after having a night to digest it? Do you think the U.S. team has what it takes to accomplish the task at hand?

Share your thoughts below.

Comments

[Strider]

Yes, even though we played well, it did feel like a loss just because of the huge letdown of going from a win to a tie in the last 30 secs. The more frustrating thing was the stupid yellow taken by Bradley on the free kick. Holden had taken most of the free kicks up unti then, why was Bradley suddently the one doing so? And why did he not take the kick when the ref was obviously telling him to? Well, the key now is to focus on Nigeria. Play well and win, or at least tie, and we move on. Good luck boys!

[chupacabra]

The only things that made it feel like a loss was knowing we'd have to face Nigeria without Adu and Bradley, and knowing that we'd now need at least a tie to advance. Without those factors it would have felt like a victory, especially since everyone that we'd lose.

[steve]

i think the most disappointing thing so far in this tournament has been the uniforms. They can't seem to get the numbers to stay on the jerseys lol

[Rob]

I think Bradley took the yellow intentionally, either to waste time only or thinking about solidifying his availability for the next round match. IMO, tactical decisions impacting the next two matches are not the responsibility of an under-23 midfielder, and I hope Nowak tore him a new one the second they walked in the locker room.

That frustration vented, Freddy's absence is more significant than Bradley's.

[kyle]

I felt worse than I would have felt if we lost 3-0. We had it and let it go. But it doesn't erase the fact that we played great and some of our bigger names really stepped up. Brian McBride was a bad pick for this team. He's great but just doesnt fit in with this team. Kenny Cooper would have been a much better overage choice. Klejstan, Adu, Wynne, and Edu were the players that really showed me what they were made of yesterday. Altidore if given the whole game would have made it a whole different game. Holden looks good at times and ripped a nice shot but I'm still not sure about him. Rogers cant cross, Orozco looked better and Parkhurst is invisible out there like a good central defender should be. Good job boys. Keep the points coming and give us fans the pleasure of seeing you guys match up with Argentina possibly.

[YankatOxford]

The quality of football played by the U.S. team was impressive, and it was certainly an entertaining affair. Nowak actually provided some adroit tactical tweaks, and some timely subs. Even getting technically weak outside backs involved on the ball was impressive.

On the other hand, the inexperience of Kljestan and particularly Holden kept the U.S. from qualifying for the medal round after two matches. The match against Nigeria will be intense.

Will the real Benny Feilhaber please stand up?

[James]

Great point - completely agree. We're still in control of our own destiny, and if we were good enough to deserve to win v. Holland (even if we didn't - as in, if that was a true result that we looked better than the Dutch for so long), then barring something crazy, we should get a result v. Nigeria and advance.

Keep the pressure on, boys!

[Ted]

What a bunch of people have pointed out is how well the team passed the ball once they switched to a 4-2-3-1 from the 4-4-2. Holden did an excellent job in the central role (with help from Kljestan) and pushing Adu to the right allowed him to receive the ball in space and get away from the Dutch defenders.

Holden is our player of the tournament right now. Yes, he probably should have passed to Kljestan on THAT play, and committed a stupid foul, but he's been consistently good on both sides of the field in both games.

He was called in for the Mexico game for the senior team last winter; let's hope he continues to play well and gets another look.

[EDB]

i think balboa had a good take on the bradley penalty , if that was his thinking.. 2 min or so togo and he has a yellow.. try to kill as much time as possible and if you get a card it wont matter to miss the game because he thought they were going to qualify after that one..

i thought the us did well. But if they are going to play McBride they need better service in the air.. I would like to rodgers sit, he is fast but he gets nothing done.

[Johnny]

I don't think I will truly be able to digest this game until I see what happens in the next game. The US could win again and the agony of that late free kick would be erased. I do like that many of our younger players are starting to show that they deserve major roles on the senior team. I would love to hear what the Dutch coach said after this game. I wish Holden would have just crossed the ball!

[gaucho]

Great game to watch and as disappointed as I was at the end, any way you cut it it was a solid result. It's always better to control your own destiny in these tournaments--I suppose we're fortunate to have played Japan first.

Clearly, we'll beat Nigeria if we play as well as we did from Minutes 25 to 90 against the Dutch, because that team was clicking so well that we could go toe-to-toe with everyone in the tournament.

Question marks:

Can Feilhaber go 90 minutes (or at least a solid 60-70)? We need a true central midfielder to step up in Adu and Bradley's absence. It might be Szetela, but it seems like Benny is getting more PT.
Which Sacha will show up? Sacha v. Japan or Sacha v. Holland?
Can the defense keep going the way it has on short rest and essentially no subs during the first two games?

This is great stuff--can't wait for Wednesday.

[Tony in Quakeland]

I keep reminding myself that my disappointment is a measure of how far we've come...

[Christian]

Well, I predicted a US win based on that "never give up" attitude Americans carry and it looks like I would've been right if not for the late goal.

Saw most of the game and it seemed to be a tale of two halves. With the Dutch dominating early proceedings and the Americans settling a bit late in the first half. The second half was all for the Americans although the Dutch had enough chances to put the game away in the first half.

It's a shame but it goes to show you that it's 11 v 11 and anything can happen on the field. There is no such thing as a deserved victory, at the end of the day you either score more goals than the other team or you don't. As it stands the US was lucky to walk away with 3 points against Japan but more than earned the W against the Dutch. It's the way the game goes sometimes.

The US boys should be proud of their effort and also making sure teams dont underestimate them, like the Dutch did.

[TCompton]

That game sucked! After the Dutch scored the first goal, I thought... here we go again. Then Adu and Kljestan combine for a great goal. The second goal was simply pay off for attacking.

Then... Adu picks up a stupid yellow card and was suspended from the Nigeria match.

Then... Bradley does the same thing! Only our stupid announcers were saying it was a cleaver and smart move... IDIOTS!

It's never a good move! YOU ADVANCE AS A TEAM! If you're playing with the thought that you can skip the next match and play in the quarterfinals, before your current match is concluded, then you're being selfish and will get punished for it!

Then the Dutch punished us.

When the Netherlands coach said that the US team didn't have any great players, he was referring to players Sibon on MaKaay. And coincidently, he was right. The US has no player like them. Once they came onto the field, the US was outmatched... and exhausted.

Fortunately, Nigeria is missing two of its players too. Maybe not as critical to the Nigerian team, as Adu and Bradley have been to the US, but still a loss.

The sad thing about it is that if the US and Nigeria tie, and the Netherlands wins. Then Nigeria gets el imitated, without losing a game. And no matter what country you're from, that sucks.

[Christine]

"From Freddy Adu's tricky dribbles to Sacha Kljestan's dangerous runs to Jozy Altidore's burgeoning promise as a big-game striker, to Michael Bradley's composure and presence in the middle of the field, the U.S. team provided ample evidence that this country is producing skilled soccer players and progressing beyond the disappointment of the 2006 World Cup."

AMEN IVES!!!!

[doug]

great recap. It pretty much sums up my feelings after letting it digest overnight.

[Adam M.]

The Netherlands game will only feel like a loss if the US fails to get a result against Nigeria. Now it feels like a badly missed opportunity, particularly as a simple pass by Holden would have made it 3-1. The match proved that the US isn't quite good enough to overcome its mistakes yet, but is good enough to survive while making them. I consider it the best US soccer performance since the first half of the Argentina Copa America game. Let's just hope that the Nigeria game doesn't look like the second half.

[Super Metro]

This reminded me of that U-17 World Cup game vs Argentina a couple of years ago with E.J., Gaven, Spector etc. in which Argentina tied the game late in like the fifth minute added time to win by a free kick in extra time. I remember E.J. missing two sitters late in this game. We need to learn how to knock out good teams like this.

[Tim F.]

The US was seconds away from already advancing to the second round -- to take that burden off its shoulders -- and increase its likelihood of avoiding Argentina in the next game. The first opportunity is lost and the second is tougher, let alone the fact that they may not even make it into the next round now.

That is what it feels like ... not a loss but a lost opportunity... still ...
It was a great 65 minutes. Congrats to Coach Nowak and all the players.

[Al]

Ives - Good article to put things in perspective.

Has anyone find any quotes from the Dutch coach, Flop Du Jour or whatever his name is, regarding the game?

[Tim]

As I said on another thread, we need to focus on BEATING Nigeria, NOT getting a "result" (ie: a tie). Tentative soccer gets you beat. Despite not having Bradley and Adu due to suspensions, we have other capable players that can step up, such as Szetela and, yes, Feilhaber. Feilhaber has struggled with injury, and subsequently hasn't been in top form. However, he is very capable of coming in and making an impact- see Gold Cup final against Mexico. We can get this thing done.

Another thing to keep in mind is that a Dutch win against Japan is not guaranteed. If they lose or tie, they'd have either 2 or 3 points, Japan would have either 1 or 3, and the U.S. would still have 4 in the event of a loss to Nigeria, and advance. Obviously, we DON'T want to go there, but it is a scenario.

[Aquaman]

My question is this: Say the team was going to com out with a 4-4-2 formation with Adu and Bradley in the center midfield positions, who is going to replace them? I would assume that Feilhaber would take the place of Adu because he can create with passes and defend. The problem comes with replacing Bradley. Do you replace him directly with Szetela or do you replace Edu with Ianni and move Edu up into the midfield? OR do you put Szetela on the right and move Holden into the center somewhere?

[A.S.]

Still feels like a loss.

And that won't change until I know what happens against Nigeria. Moreover, even if we tie Nigeria and come in second in the group, it will feel like a loss if we lose to Argentina in the quarters.

Sorry, Ives, but you are trying to put lipstick on this big ugly pig, and I'm not buying it.

[alexarmac]

This is one of the best group of players that we have ever had. In a big game I have never seen the US take it to the opponent and control the majority of the game as they did Sunday. Novack has done an excellent job. I hope that we have something left for Nigeria.

[jjfad]

Has anyone mentioned that Nowak bever used his final sub? Wouldn't that have been a nice time waster at the end of the game? Not to mention getting some fresh legs on the field for the obviously gassed Holden or Sacha?

[Mighty]

Question anybody knows where i can watch the USA Vs NIgeria on Wedsday? Is there any channel that willb e showing the game?

[Manny F]

What I still can't figure out is, did Altidore only played the last 25 minutes of the half? Why did he not start?

[kpugs]

Mighty, it's going to be live on USA network, and after the game is over you can watch the full match on NBColympics.com.

I hate to say it because I think he has such a massive upside, but I think Stuart Holden cost us the win here against the Dutch.

[kpugs]

(For future reference just check out ussoccer.com, and click the "tv schedule" tab on the right side of the page.)

[JLH]

Look, Bradley and Adu not being available might actually prove a good thing for the US. Without Adu, Altidore comes in and we put a lot of speed and muscle up front. Without Bradley, Sacha can play a bit more centrally on his own, perhaps even moving up in the attack, which he has done so well with Chivas.

[Mighty]

Thanks DuDesssssss!!!!

[green]

The yellows to Adu and Bradley are unfortunate. However, if they didn't receive them in this game and played and received one in the Nigeria game, that would mean we would lose them for the 2nd round game, no?

So by playing them in game 2 and risking the third game without one/both players, it's taking the risk of losing them for one game as opposed to two games. I think it's the better of the two scenarios.

[andy b.]

"I keep reminding myself that my disappointment is a measure of how far we've come..."
Tony in Quakeland-- I couldn't have said it better. That's exactly my sentiment; how quickly we forget that it would have been a pipe dream just a few short years ago to imagine outplaying (really, really outplaying) a quality side like the Dutch in the Olympics.
Also-- Mr. Adu did things in the last game that I never dreamed I'd see an American player do; it wasn't just his runs, which were awesome, it was that assist on Sacha's goal-- not that Sacha didn't have a lot of work to do after the pass. But it was the sort of touch you expect to see out of truly world-class players, and coming from Freddy, it didn't seem like a big deal at all... and of course the dangerous runs, etc., all play a part in making those sorts of touches even more dangerous...

[Jacob]

This is Jozy's moment.

(I bet he makes the most of it...)

[Mike Caramba]

Ives,

Good article--puts things in perspective. I'm just wondering if you've come across any post-game comments from the Dutch coach? If you could link it, that would be much appreciated. Thanks

[TCompton]

"And that won't change until I know what happens against Nigeria. Moreover, even if we tie Nigeria and come in second in the group, it will feel like a loss if we lose to Argentina in the quarters."

That's a good point.
If the US draw Nigeria 0-0, and the Netherlands beats Japan 1-0, then the US and Netherlands are tied with 5 points, +1 GD, and 3 goals scored, 2 goals allowed.

Who finishes first and second?

A similar problem occurs, if the US and Nigeria draw 1-1, and the Netherlands wins 1-0. Nigeria and the Netherlands would be tied across each of the tie-breakers.

Does it go to a coin toss at that point?

Generally, for the US to finish first in the group, they need to draw or win, and score the same number of goals as the Netherlands.

[dwbpnm]

The goal still stings but we all have to remember that before the tournament if we were offered 4 points from the first two games we would have taken it in a second.

Bradley was obviously taking the yellow to clear the slate. Not only would a yellow in the Nigeria game mean he was lost to for the quarterfinal but a yellow the quarterfinal would've meant a suspension for the semi. This way he sits the Nigeria game which he was likely to do anyway(if we had held on) and then can play the rest of the tournament without the fear of a suspension barring a red. Rob I doubt Nowak yelled at him since if you watch a replay Nowak gave Bradley instructions just before the "kick" so I'm guessing he told Bradley to take a yellow. Since the US ended up giving up the goal I'm sure Nowak is kicking himself now but he certainly isn't blaming Bradley.

[Collin Koenig]

Count me as one who was VERY impressed with Holden's service on free kicks. Jozy showed immediately that his size and speed have the potential to be lethal on an international level.

We will get (at least) a tie with Nigeria and put this disappointing? draw behind us. Mark my words.

It'd sure be nice to avoid drawing the Argies in the quarters, though.

[Al17]

Bottomline is that we didn't close out the match. Doesn't matter the quality of the opponent. We didn't finish this match off and that's why it feels like a loss to many of us. I predicted that we'd win and we gave the Netherlands a lifeline. It's not Nowak's fault. These guys have played more than their share of matches to know how to finisht them off and we didn't. I am so sick and tired of seeing this from the good team we have. I think we'll get through along with Nigeria because Japan will beat Netherlands. Netherlands is not as good as many have made them out to be. We're fortunate that Taiwo stayed in Marseille instead of showing for the Olympics otherwise I'd say we're S.O.L.
My predictions
USA (2) - Nigeria (2)
Japan (3) - Netherlands (1)

[Brooklyn Zoo]

I think Ives, (and this why I continue to read your site) you make some excellent points people overlook.

It felt like a punch to the gut... but we are really starting to see the future come into shape. Besides obvious expectations about Adu, Altidore and Bradley, I think this tournament has really been an emergence party for other players - mainly Wynne and Edu in the defensive role. Sasha, while I don't think he's had a great tournament, and has a bit to go, had a wonderful strike to equalize, and shows that he has the potential to be a dangerous attacking player. We know he is if not the best, the one of the best young players in the MLS, but once those skills began to translate better... who knows.

I hope we qualify for the next round, but even if we don't I still think this was certainly not a wasted experience for our youngins.

[Steve Sampson]

I think we should bunker vs. Nigeria. It's our only chance.

[gaucho]

@TCompton
See:
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/regulations%5folympics%5fbeijing%5f2008%5fen%5f6198.pdf

Standings calculated by:
The ranking of the teams in each group shall be determined as
follows:
a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;
b) goal difference in all group matches;
c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.
If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria,
their ranking shall be determined as follows:
d) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches between
the teams concerned;
e) goal difference resulting from all group matches between the
teams concerned;
f) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches between the
teams concerned;
32
g) fair play point system, in which the number of yellow and red cards
each team has received is evaluated;
h) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.

In your first scenario, Nigeria would go home, because it would go to to total goals among the tied teams, leaving the US and the Dutch with 2 each and Nigeria with zero. Then first place would go to the fair play point system. Currently, the US has 7 yellows and the Dutch 2, so that tiebreaker would probably be in the Netherland's favor at the end.

In your second scenario, US finishes first with four total goals for the group. The tiebreaker between Holland and Nigeria would be the fair play points system. Nigeria currently has 6 yellows, so that probably goes in Holland's favor as well.

[northzax]

let's keep something else in mind: we control everyone's destiny in the group of death. The US. You think Nigeria is looking forward to this? They need to win outright to be sure of going through, against a team that manhandled a team they struggled against, while sitting half their backline.

Big winner so far? MLS. For all the 'Mickey Mouse' comments, MLS produced a side that, save for a final critical error, took down the freaking Dutch. Yes, the final killer instinct wasn't there, but look at how much more international experience the Oranje had compared to the US. They have players at Ajax, we have players from Columbus. 13 months ago, 8 of the starting 11 played in mls. uniforms, and Bradley got his start in mls, while mcbride is too old but would have if there was a mls in 1992. This is the first generation of Americans for whom professional soccer was a legitimate aspiration, and look at the dividends.

[Scott C]

Yes Ives, I have to agree. This was a real missed opportunity, but the most important thing is the quality this team displayed. It comes down to the game with Nigeria, but if we can't get a result against Nigeria, we're never going to go very far in this tournament anyway. I'm not understanding everyone's negative logic. Nigeria tied the Dutch, who we thoroughly dominated for 70 minutes. And they beat Japan by one goal...I think Japan lost to another team by one goal also :)
Am I missing something?

But I think this team has showed it has the quality to do it. I don't think you can point to any player as a standout, can't live without player. I've seen contributions from all over the field. And I think Sasha is showing his class. I remember in qualifying, he had a bad first game, but got better and better as the tournament progressed; I think this time it will be the same.

[northzax]

gaucho: what does a straight red count as? Holland had one in the first match, right?

[Tony in Quakeland]

SuperMetro: Exactly. The moment this game was over I fired off an email to my brother complaining that this was the worst I felt since that ridiculous seven minutes of extra time in that game against Argentina!

Tcompton: Totally disagree with your first post. We were not outclassed by the Dutch subs. We were absorbing them comfortably until an unnecessary foul gave them a shot. (Josy tracking back and making a nifty defensive play sticks in my mind as a stand out example.) If Holden stays within himself in that last minute (as he had the entire first two games), we win. Plain and simple. WE made a mistake. They did not outclass us.

[Derek]

Both Adu and Holden missed EASY opportunities for ASSISTS, Adu twice in the box. Everyone is fawning over Freddie's two big dribbling runs, but both times there were people standing all alone in the box. Holden could have set Altidore free or at least crossed it to Orozco. With a little more unselfish play, we win that game 4-2.

[srfinger]

TCompton,

Sibon and Makaay were the best players on the field and we were overmatched? Unless they were just being cheeky for their first 15 minutes on the pitch, I think you are giving them way too much credit. How about Makaay wasting a late corner by playing the ball back 30 yards when we had plenty of guys back? Yes, they ended up getting a goal after a series of mistakes on our part so they did their job, but it was not as if they changed the match.

[Tim]

Just realized that there's a scenario that could be awful for us:

The Netherlands beats Japan by 2+ goals, and the US and Nigeria tie. The Netherlands would then advance and win the group on goal differential. That would leave the US and Nigeria both with 5 points, both having tied the Netherlands and beat Japan by 1 goal. Would we then get the nod because we scored 2 on the Netherland versus Nigeria's 1?? Hopefully so...or would they go to some other decision maker that could cost us advancement?

Again, the best way not have to worry is to WIN!

[DeLarge]

Big winner so far? MLS. For all the 'Mickey Mouse' comments, MLS produced a side that, save for a final critical error, took down the freaking Dutch.

Northzax has it best. Oh, and Aston Villa is really glad they got Guzan on the dirt cheap right now. Marvell Wynne has Eredivisie managers drooling, and Monaco loves the fact they have Adu on their books.

And Mexico's federation is watching ten more years of bad results in the making.

[Betinho]

I haven't read the preceding remarks so if I repeat their sentiments forgive me for a monotonous post. I whole heartedly agree with what you've said, Ives. I was very disappointed with the result but the game was incredible! It's the same feeling I had watching the U20 WC. This group of players are the next step forward. They are attack minded and not intimidated by the should-be soccer powers. Our current crop of national players have risen the bar from just qualifying to being expected to advance in big tournament. I believe these younger players will have the confidence to take that one step further. I believe the further ventures into the semi's and finals of major tournaments will be a great possibility with this group. Do we have the skill and technical ability of top countries? No. However, where we would in the past luck out a win 1 in 15 matches I believe those odds will improve with this group to more like 1 in 5.

The first 20 minutes of the game I was resigned to the fact that our players still had so much work to do on the techical side of the game. It was evident we were outclassed and over our heads. The Dutch were putting to gether pin point passes and controling long passes out the back with one touch while in contrast the US had passes missing by miles, thier first touches were clumsy, both resulting in tons of unforced turnovers. It was laughable. I was thinking about how delusional all of us are. Then they settled down and the skill showed. the runs and passing truly belonged within the definition of the beautiful game! I for one am stoked about the future of US soccer more than ever after this game. I also am in support of Novak. he obviously knows more than any of us about the team he has. Other than not making a late defensive sub in the Holland game I think he's pulled every string correctly thus far - and if the wall would have done it's job he would have been perfect IMHO>

[Nicholas]

Tim,
We'd be in based upon the # of goals scored.

[gaucho]

@northzax

Take a look at the link I included in the post above. Starting on p. 51, it breaks down the whole point system. It's pretty complicated, so you should take a look--it's difficult to summarize here.

But in general, there are six factors that provide a single game score:
1. Red and yellow cards (10 pts. max)
2. Positive play (based on an assessment of continuing to press forward, not time-wasting, etc.) (pretty subjective) (10 pts. max)
3. Respect toward the opponent (pretty subjective) (5 pts. max)
4. Respect toward the referee/linesmen/fourth officials (pretty subjective) (5 pts. max)
5. Behavior of the team's officials (pretty subjective) (5 pts. max)
6. Behavior of the crowd (sometimes disregarded if the number of supporters for one side is negligible) (5 pts. max)

Then it's divided by the total number of possible points and multiplied by 1000.

As for your specific question, a first yellow counts as minus 1, a second yellow (and therefore red) to the same player counts as an additional minus 3, a direct red is minus three, and a direct red for a player already carrying a yellow is minus 4. All are subtracted from the 10 pts in factor 1. It does seem that you can actually get minus points from this factor, though I'd have to know more about how FIFA writes its regulations to be sure.

So, since I forgot to add in Holland's straight red, this is a lot closer than I thought. There's A LOT of room for funny business here, with all of those subjective assessments. I don't think anyone would want the standings to come down to this criteria.

[Tim F.]

THERE IS NO WAY THE NETHERLANDS ARE LOSING TO JAPAN. NO WAY.

[Tim F.]

OR EVEN TIEING JAPAN FOR THAT MATTER.

[Bill]

Right, Tim F., and there is no way the U.S. is getting a result against the Dutch. Oh, wait...

My point is you never know...you can't even say that Nigeria and the US should be evenly matched because both tied the Dutch and both beat Japan by one gaol. Previous results mean very little and you have to play the game to see who's better that day. I, for one, think we looked pretty crappy against Japan and pretty good against the Netherlands. How we do Wednesday depends on which US team shows up.

[Collin]

Yeah i like what Northzax said about MLS being a big winner. It's true that, thus far, several Americans have increased their stock. Marvell Wynne in particular has shown the world that he can play top-division soccer in Europe.

[rocky]

I think this Nowak can be a genious with his selections, he has a hungry player in felharber who needs to impress to cling on with another team. You also have a fresh Altidore who shorely will start. I think you bring in those two and you sit rogers, and bring in Dax. Let Dax sit in front of the back four, thats what he does best. Remeber we only need a tie. This is what i would love to see the usa come out with: If we get through remember we will have our 2 best players fresh for the knockouts.

-----------McBride------Altidore-----------

-----------------Keljstin------------------

-------Holden------------------Felharber---

----------------- McCarty------------------

---Orozco------Edu------Parkhurst----Wynne-

------------------Guzan--------------------

[Bill]

I dunno, Rocky, I've read that Josy's ankle is still really bothering him. I doubt he can start and go 90. I say something more like this:

--------McHead--------

RR-----Sasha-------Stu

---Benny----Szetela---

----same back four----

-------Guzan----------

I actually think the best option would be to move Edu up in Szetela's if we had anyone I trust to partner with Parkhurst. I don't think Ianni's the answer.

[Bill]

I know Dax has played left back in a pinch, maybe slide Orozco into the center (where he's most comfortable) and move Mo up to defensive mid (where he's most comfortable). Just an idea.

[Tim F.]

Lineup against Nigeria:

-----------McBride------Altidore-----------

-----------------Keljstin------------------

-------Rogers------------------Holden---

----------------- Edu------------------

---Orozco------Parkhurst----Ianni----Wynne-

------------------Guzan--------------------

[hdtv]

so sunday's game was good, and that was it. it was a good performance by the US, but let's not get out of hand. the US played a strong game over a poor dutch side that lacked any cohesion, but in my mind still struggled where it mattered - the midfield. we didn't control possession. freddy had 2 or so incredible runs, but that is almost all he did in the whole game - other than that he was invisible - why? because freddy shouldnt be the player controlling the game, he's the one who adds in that bit of spark to translate possession into goal. because we lack possession, we can't get freddy regularly involved, meaning less offense. i still want to see benny get the full start. sacha's goal was a beauty, but other than that he hasnt impressed at all this olympics, and i dont think he should be playing in the center. i think benny deserves the look because 1- he's an incredible prospect at the position the US is weakest at and therefore deserves a second chance after his brilliant gold cup, and 2- sacha can't play that possession/ playmaker role. and i hear a lot of people saying they don't know why benny deserves another shot, but i would be tempted to say the same about bradley. that yellow was incredibly stupid, and balboa is an idiot for encouraging it. at worst, we win, and nowak puts bradley on the bench for safety- bradely had no need to guarantee he couldnt play. he fouls often and leads to many turnovers, though his hustle and defensive bite is great. personally, if spector was back, id like ot see edu in the middle and bradley on the bench.
my lineup:

same back 4 + guz

sacha - feil - szetela - holden

altidore/mcbride - davies

altidore and mcbride cant play together - let davies run off of one of them holding the ball up. remember how well mcbride and landon worked in 2002? controversial i know, but we need to get out of this horrible british mindset of grinding out wins/ties. it's time to try to play some free flowing soccer, to try to control the ball and use our superb athleticism, otherwise i see nothing good coming of a trip to azteca.

[jjfad]

Anybody know if this group has any recent history against Nigeria?

[Mario in SJ]

Northzax I'm with you. MLS is a big winner and by proxy all of us fans. I believe only 3 players on the Olympic roster are not or have not been on MLS rosters this season. All of the players are PROs, no College players. They did write another chapter in that book and it was a damn good one.

[Al]

Speaking about MLS, Coach Gullit and Lalas left the LA galaxy.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-galaxy12-2008aug12,0,4926526.story

[Al]

I meant removed by the LA Galaxy, not left (completely different meaning) :-)

[evan]

props to northzax on the mls comment. true point, and it has been flying under the radar that most of the players are getting their experience in mls. during the game yesterday i kept saying to my friend as a joke, but turned into something very telling-- every time marvell shut down drenthe i kept saying 'toronto fc v. real madrid and toronto came out on top'. i think it shows how far mls has developed our current crop of players.

[northzax]

one more Bradley comment. Yes, he could have sat the last round and played in the quarters, but I believe I am correct in saying that cards reset AFTER the quarters, but suspensions carry through. So if you have one yellow you are clear, but a second yellow in the quarters means you sit the semis.

[TomR]

Very pleasing game. Shows the potential of the team and its youth and experience as well. I felt bad for Holden. He struggled at the beginning and was getting pounded on defense then shined in the middle of the attack until he bombed at the end, Rogers was struggling with his crosses but found a way to contribute with very good defense and good overlapping play with Orozco. Freddy started out playing very small but got better and better as the game went om. Kljestan and Bradley had not played very well in the wrm ups and Jpana game but finally showed why they are such good players.

[TBrodie]

Here's an interesting story blaming the lack of intensity and pressure in MLS on the U.S.'s collapse.

http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/us-collapses-is-mls-to-blame/335

[Eugene]

I'll put it right out there, I think the US team is going to rip Nigeria apart on Wednesday. Our guys are hungry and dangerous and they've had a taste of what success is about, I don't think they're about to shirk away from the challenge when they know they can get through.

And if the next round is against Argentina, so what? We've seen enough top level international tournaments, whether on the youth level or the international level, to know that its going to be tough. Very tough. But our guys are ready for that, they know what to expect, there are no surprises here, and its not the first time they will have faced Messi and company.

I truly believe that against Nigeria, and dare I say against Argentina next, they will be fearless and will leave it all -- win or lose -- on the field. And that's all any of us can really ask for from our team.

[Eugene]

Be prepared for the US team to go to war in their next games. I guarantee you they will not leave another opponent bleeding but still alive on the field. No way.

[Venkmann]

This tournament is a high level, pressurized, learning experience, someplace to blood players for the World Cup. Imagine if we could get through and meet Messi and Argentina in a match that really mattered (Argentina takes these games seriously).

In that regard the team has done well. At least they appear to be performing better than the women, for a change.

Neither Mcbride nor Rogers are the abject failures everyone seems to think they are. Rogers defended well in the second half. Someone needs to eventually replace Eddie Lewis and he is one possibility.

McBride isn't scoring but he is drawing a lot of attention and a lot of fouls and is opening up holes for others, which is what good target men do, the dirty work. Jozy appears to have an injured ankle so he is only good for about a half, another reason McBride is important. It seems like Bake softens them up for Jozy's speed, strength and quickness. Still I'd like to see both of them in a 4-4-2 but I doubt Jozy's ankle will hold up.

I like Bradley but ever since I've seen him play for the USMNT he has always taken a lot of bad fouls, many of them those wonderful Premiership two footed tackles from behind. Someone needs to tell him to stay on his feet.

[Alejandro ruiz]

"lol@this guy"

And Mexico's federation is watching ten more years of bad results in the making.

So where is Carlos Vela/Gio playing now?

LOL