More mistreatment for Red Bulls fans at Giants Stadium (updated)

It was supposed to be a day to celebrate soccer, as well as watch an entertaining soccer game. For some unfortunate Red Bulls fans, it was just another day of avoiding harrassment from Giants Stadium security.

Several members of the Red Bulls' largest supporter's group, the Empire Supporter's Club, were ejected and banned from Giants Stadium after altercations with stadium security. It would be foolish to assume that the fans were completely blameless in the incidents, but the clashes with security are the latest in a history of conflict between stadium security and the Red Bulls' most ardent supporters.

I have spent most of my life in New Jersey and have been to Giants Stadium both as a journalist and, on some occasions, as a sports fan, and it has been clear to me for some time now that there is a different attitude and approach by Giants Stadium security toward soccer fans than there is toward almost any other fan group that visits the venue. This can't obviously be blamed on every single member of Giants Stadium security, but it can be blamed on a good number of security guards who appear more eager to get involved in confrontations with fans at soccer games than other events like football games.

The events of this weekend did little to dispel that belief. Along with having more than a dozen members of the ESC ejected from Saturday's match, another Red Bulls fan who was ejected and banned was 2006 Red Bulls fan of the year Thomas Binkley, who was given the boot because of a verbal confrontation with a couple (it should also be noted that Binkley was seated in section 109, not 101, where most of the day's other hostilities took place). Binkley, a fan who travels from Virginia to attend home games (he is a season-ticket holder) and is one of ESC's leaders and road trip organizers (and who was interviewed for an ESPN.com story that same day) has now been banned from Giants Stadium by security guards who probably just saw another 'rowdy' soccer fan who needed to be put in line.

The mistreatment isn't limited to Red Bulls matches. International friendlies almost always have their share of incidents and while there are clearly occasions where fans are to blame for problems because of their bad behavior, the combative and hostile attitude of some stadium security sure doesn't help create a peaceful environment.

While the incidents at international friendlies are one thing, having constant battles between security and the team's leading supporter's group is unacceptable. Security at the stadium has helped turn Giants Stadium into a hostile environment for soccer fans who have supported the Red Bulls/MetroStars for the past dozen years and this can be blamed, at least in part, by the fact that the team those fans support do not own the stadium.

Think about it. If you ran the stadium, would you care much about a tenant who doesn't make you much money, and more importantly, is leaving in a year?

So why are the Red Bulls to blame? Obviously they aren't the main ones to blame (the New Jersey Sports & Exposition Authority is), but Red Bull New York is the organization that should care about its fans and should be working on the behalf of their fans to seek better treatment. Whether it be by having team liaisons sit in section 101 to help (The club says these exist, though it is unclear what they do), or by working with the NJSEA to establish a better system for fans to appeal when they are ejected and banned, the club could be doing far more than it is currently doing to help its fans deal with an environment that can only be described as hostile (as evidenced by this salutation from one security guard on the far left toward ESC members following Saturday's match).

"I know there is a long, complicate history between the security guards at Giants stadium and the ESC," Red Bulls managing director Erik Stover said. "I think it’s unfortunate and its something that we’re going to fix when we move into the new building.

"I think the Sports Authority has a lot of rules and tends to lean towards things being black and white," Stover said. "It’s clear to me that the set of rules doesn’t fit in with everyday soccer life."

Stover acknowledged that there are issues that need to be addressed, but admitted that the Red Bulls are limited in their ability to make real chances in how the NSEA polices the crowd at Red Bulls games.

"I’m just kind of frustrated that I don’t have a simple solution," Stover said. "We’re committed to doing everything we can to make the experience as manageable as possible between now and when we move into Red Bull Park."

(Stover also stated that Red Bulls fans who were ejected and banned who feel they were unjustly ejected should contact the Red Bulls' fan services department. The club will then look into their incidents to see if they were properly handled.)

Most Red Bulls fans can't wait for Red Bull Park to be built next year because it promises to be a better game-day experience, and more beautiful home for their soccer team, but many are counting the days until the team moves out of Giants Stadium so that they don't have to deal with mistreatment by stadium security, and indirectly, the very team they support.

What do you think about the game-day experience at Giants Stadium? Do you feel security is fair in its handling of soccer games and soccer fans? Have you had a bad experience with security at Giants Stadium? Share your thoughts below.

Comments

[Squard]

Thank you for bringing this matter to light. I don't think most of the soccer public realizes how bad security really is at Giants Stadium, especially at soccer games.

[Richie B]

Having never been to a game there and this story being the only thing I've ever heard about this issue my only opinion is that the person who ran onto the field during the USA-Argentina friendly is an idiot, what did he expect to happen and why in the world should we feel sorry for him?

Good luck to RBNY fans in riding out the main problem with stadium security until the new stadium is built.

[Dr. Rockzo, The Rock N' Roll Clown]

It's the same crap in New England. Security are taught to equate passionate support (or Tifo) with hooliganism and there's no one from the clubs or higher up in the security organization to step in and teach them otherwise.

[Brian H]

You run on the field. You are asking for trouble.

I saw that incident in person, and I dont' think he was manhandled. He had to be tackled to be caught. The worst thing the guy did was knock his arm down when I he tried to wave to the crowd.

Your insinuating that he got "beat up" in the tunnel after leaving the field. Do you have evidence of this?
..

That being said.. I hate the security at the meadowlands. But that kid running on the field is a poor example of mistreatment.

[MasterShake]

Thank You.

I was right in the middle of the scuffle, luckily I didn't get banned (probably because I am white and don't look "dangerous"). The guards were out looking for trouble, instigating every time. They use profanity toward us and racial slurs, but banned Binkley because he cursed at some couple who come once a year to watch Beckham play? They are not trained to calm the situation down, there was a world of difference when State Troopers showed up to diffuse the situation, they were polite and respectful, while the NJSEA guards were acting like little children.

They dont care about soccer or soccer fans, they get to abuse some people every other weekend and they get pleasure out of it. There was no need for what happened, innocent bystanders were being trampled and caught in the middle of the scuffle and an innocent girl was elbowed in the head by one of the guards.

[DoctorK]

Thanks, Ives, for being the sole member of the local media to bring our plight to light.

[Sergio]

This mistreatment has been going on since day 1. It is ne of the many reasons why support hasnt grown as much as it should. People show passion and they get thrown out. Granted sometimes people need to be thrown out but from what I witness 9 times out of ten they can look the other way or come in and do alittle more investigating than grabbing the nearest person(not the culprit) and throwing them out.

Having abit of a less agressive approach and also being more lenient on gray area things like "cursing" will go a long way.

Save the aggressive "policing" for real criminals or people who are just downright mis behaving. I know atleast 20 people who got tired of getting harrased and stopped coming. People dont want to pay tickets, parking, gas, tolls to get harrassed for doing things like waving a flag or saying "sucks".

[inkedAG]

Giants Stadium has been hostile for years. The security there is a total Goon Squad who will fight and eject anyone they deem threatening whether they are or not. You even breathe in their direction, they'll harass you.

It's very simple. NJSEA can give f**k all about soccer and it starts at the top with George Zoffinger. Over the years, he has made his Jim Rome-like thoughts known about the soccer franchise in New York.

Now, in Red Bull, you have an organization that only cares about selling their beverage and will blow smoke and mirrors that they actually care about their soccer team. Smart fans know they care just as less as MetroMedia and AEG did before them. They hired a former NJSEA employee as their Managing Director for Pete's sake!!! I'm not all surprised that fan treatment is now worse under Erik Stover's "leadership."

And this ties into all of the problems this franchise has. When the Owning Organization doesn't care, and hires people who don't care and don't know how to run a sports team, how do you expect the players to care and win games? How can you expect people to then go to a hostile environment to see a game? And Red Bull Park is not going to be a panacea. If idiots are still running things, things will not get better. Maybe in the short-term, people will go to Red Bull Park for the curiosity factor, but if you have fools running the show, who is to say that the goons they hire at RBP will be any better than the goons at GS?

[onionsack]

Ives i know this kind of story really isn't your beat, but i sincerly appreciate you taking the time to acknowledge what has been going on here.

Also i may add, they seem much much more eager to have a go at latino fans. all but one person ejected yesterday was latino and in all the videos you can clearly see them doing mothing but try and break up the incident to avoid escalation.

[tim]

I heard about this story earlier and it is pretty amazing that stuff like this happens. I started coming to games this year mainly becaue I just moved up to NY and wanted an MLS team to follow after years of just watching the league with no real interest in a team. But I am a huge fan now and really get behind "my teams." I sing, cheer and yell the entire game and basically have a great time doing it. This story though makes me sick that fans aren't treated with some sort of respect. I was almost kicked out of the Galaxy game in the second minute of the match, because I was still standing cheering the Red Bulls after kicked off. I was about to sit down and some guy with his wife and 2 kids starts to yell, holler and curse(setting a great example for his kids) at me and my friends to sit down. He runs off, gets security and they threaten us with being kicked out. It was nuts. You would think security would have more important things to do than kick someone out for standing for a couple minutes or saying a few "bad" words in the stands. Anyway, long post, but hopefully this issue will be resolved by RBNY because I am sure there are a ton of incidents like this that happen, and shouldn't.

[gprime]

it's good to see this getting SOME attention. if only this could be brought to light on a national level (at least to MLS).

[Seth]

This has been an ongoing issue since the beginning.

CSC is the problem. Period. End of story.

In RFK, they used to have many of the same problems. These disappeared when the team (!) took CSC out of the supporters groups areas and replaced them with DC Police. It's more expensive but it solves the problem. I truly hope that RB will fix this easily solvable problem at RB Park.

ps. that kid is a poor example and he was asking for it by running onto the field. The much bigger problem is that these issues arise with CSC almost every single game.

[ldq]

I agree with Rockzo. I've seen the same kind of treatment, though not as often, by Security at Gillette stadium. It's obvious that security has a disdain for energetic fans of a sport they probably don't like in the first place.

[Paul]

How about Stover and RBNY interceding on behalf of the ejected/banned fans to get their punishments lifted? Failing that, if there really is evidence of discrimination based on race or ethnicity, then there's a potential lawsuit against NJSEA lurking in this situation somewhere.

[ELAC]

One thing that has helped the Union Ultras (Chivas USA supporters) from similar security clashes is increasing the open dialogue with Home Depot security.

I hate to say it, but it seems security officials see soccer fans as potential hooligans (felons) when they see a large group with drums, flags, non-stop singing. Too much culture shock, sometimes. Hence, talk to security and send a constructive message.

my 2 cents.

[Pete]

I think you're kind of missing the biggest point (which Shake touched on), while showing the big picture.

Yes, there are two different sets of rules for soccer supporters and football fans in Giants Stadium. In fact, on Saturday the yellow nazis (NJSEA security guards) were clearly coming into the section to start something and get more people thrown out, when simply leaving with the one person they had come for would have diffused the situation. But as a member of the ESC with season tickets in 101, what I find to be the most reprehensible and unacceptable distinction NJSEA makes is the one between white soccer supporters and latino soccer supporters. Sure, they treat us both like dirt, but latinos clearly make up a larger percentage of those thrown out and banned. This, mind you, from an organization that let the sexual harassment of women go on for years at Jets games and has been accused (and I think sued) in the past for harassment against Muslims. This is not a coincidence; this is a trend, and it is one that must be brought to light so that justice can be served.

By the way, Ives, to whom does NJSEA answer? The Meadowlands? (and if so, who is the Meadowlands? Is that the Giants, or some group of investors?) The New Jersey state government?

[Collin]

I know the Cauldron has experienced similar problems at Arrowhead Stadium in KC. I agree that a SSS will be a big help (in both teams' cases).

[andy b.]

Being a left-coaster myself, where admittedly EVERYTHING is a little more "chill," this is an especially bizarre story to read. I don't ever have trouble believing security can get abusive-- a lot of it is about people who have a tough job being put in a situation where they are allowed to use force but not given much supervision over their use of that force; that's why in criminal defense circles you learn that security guards are just as likely (if not more) to get out-of-control abusive as cops. What I wonder, however, is what Ives and others who have witnessed/experienced think about this. First, does this have anything to do with a general stereotype about soccer "hooligans" by security, even though there is obviously no connection between European hooliganism and US soccer fans? Second, do you think this has anything to do with a general disdain for soccer as a strange/ foreign/ inferior "commie" sport?

[Pico]

This is crazy. Can you imagine if a fan tries to bring flares to a game as is done in stadiums all over the world? I actually have a air-raid siren that I got while in Italy and I am not sure if I should bring it to a Red Bulls game.

Cheers

[former rb fan]

have you seen the professionalism of the NJsea on display yet...got to the 50 second mark if yer in a hurry
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5ZPrG8mLho

[joe k]

those guys in 101 are true fans for sure -- a golthwaite jersey? sassano?

but seriously, there was noticeably less 'cursing' coming out of 101 the other day.

the real problem is that soccer is still a family-oriented outing in the u.s., so the swearing should be kept to a minimum while in the company of those families -- section 101, though, should have free reign to yell and scream as much as they want.

[A.S.]

Given that there was a huge brawl between West Ham supporters and Crew supporters over the weekend, it seems to me to be a bad time to pick on stadium security.

It is impossible to know who is in the right and who is in the wrong in these situations unless *we know what the fans were doing*. Stadium security *should* kick out rowdy fans. Stadium security *should* kick out fans who are getting into "verbal confrontations" with other fans.

I can't stand going to games where drunken fans are most interested in insulting other fans and getting into fights. Good bye and good riddance.

[Ryan]

>> but banned Binkley because he cursed at some couple who come once a year to watch Beckham play?<<

After reading the ESPN article prior to reading this comment, it sounds as if Binkley had a chip on his shoulder to prove that he's the "ultimate" soccer fan and more than likely, felt like it was his "duty" to prove it to those wearing Beckham jerseys. Jerks like this are at a lot of MLS stadiums and my 8 year old daughter had a few ignorant comments last year at the Fire-Galaxy game soley because she was wearing a Beckham jersey.

[onionsack]

WATCH THIS

i appologize for linking Ives but this is something very relevant to this topic.

After the game a van laod of NJSEA came to our lot to start something. The police made them leave eventually. At the :53 second mark one NJSEA guard gives the finger to a woman with the video camera.

They are no angels guys, they clearly had an agenda to go bust someone up then peel out in their van.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5ZPrG8mLho

I have also heard them repeatedly use racist language towards latinos and attempt to incite altercations by insulting and cursing at fans. It has to stop soon or something dire is gonna eventuall happen and it will be a black eye for everyone.

[EdTheRed]

@A.S.: why is this a bad time to pick on stadium security? The incident in Columbus happened because security there stood idly by as 30 or so fans wearing the visiting teams colors marched right on into the home supporters' section. That's a different kind of poor performance than what NJSEA demonstrates week-in, week-out, but it's still terrible security.

[Speedball]

Thanks, Ives for bringing this to light.

It's a bit ironic that security hauls off someone for crowd-surfing, presumably so he won't get hurt, only to throw him up against a wall when he tries to read the paper they gave him outlining why he was being banned.

I hang with the ESC pre- and post-game, but rarely venture into 101 because of the harassment you get there from security. I can yell at the players and refs from the safety of my sideline seats ... although, based on Mr. Binkley's case, I see that that is no longer tolerated either.

[Aaron]

Its the same at Rice Eccles in Salt Lake. The stadium security know that the team will be leaving soon for our new stadium and feel that gives them the right to abuse the soccer fans.
There was a similar incident when a season ticket holder was yelling at the opposing player taking a corner kick when some guy sitting in the stands with his 2 kids was offended. He confronted the season ticket holder and instigated a fight. One thing led to another and ultimately the stadium security decided to throw out the supporter and let the other guy, who instigated the fight, return to his seat with his family. What a joke.
During the last home game, some suit walked up and told our section that anyone who approches the corner during an opponent's corner kick will be thrown out. Anyone who throws confetti in the air after a goal will be thrown out. He informed us that we are tennants in the stadium and because we are guests we should be more polite. Im sure they will see how polite we will be during our last game in the staduim this fall.

[john]

Wait, Jersey has racist goons?! But we live in the north!

[BanBinkley]

Hey Ives,

how would you like it if people were calling your daughter disgusting names. This coming from people who wet their pants every time they walk into someone elses building. Be careful who you protect

[josh]

Isn't this the same security that killed a kid at a Dead show a while back? I have never been to Giant Stadium, but I have always heard that it is a nightmare for anything but football. Red Bull needs to get out of there, but they do need to take some responsibility for the event.

However, I know that we all want to be like the passionate european fans, but until we start selling tickets separated by home and away sections, we are going to have to grow up a bit and be tolerant of the people around us. I am only drawing my facts from this article and its comments, but this Binkley guy cursing at what he deemed fair-weather fans is unacceptable as well. If you want to emulate your hero fans of europe fine, but remember that they separate the home and away fans, allowing for chants and songs to be hurled back and forth between groups. This one-on-one insult stuff is just hurtful and useless.

[kpugs]

This also depends on the security guards as individuals. There are plenty of them at each game who are just fine. My section is rather tame, but myself and my friends can get rowdy from time to time. We've never been ejected, and even the most d**kheaded security personal tell us to either calm down or relax if we get too crazy. We're also rather harmless; we know there are families there and do our best to watch our mouths even when harassing other players. In fact this past Saturday we had our security guard cracking up.

The problem is like several people have said: they see 101 and look for a reason to boot people out of the stadium. They don't see passion, they see hooligans.

[Dick Mac]

Your equivocation on the issue of security is disheartnening.

You say "some" of the security personnel, but I challenge you that the ENTIRE security organization at NJSEA is problematic and participates in these incidents. NJSEA's yellow shirts celebrate a sociopathic bent that makes violence their only course of action. Theirs is a culture of violence. These are not responses to isolated incidents of violence.

You should also disucss the racist angle that is clear during these incidents. The yellow shirts like to single-out Latino and Hispanic fans, and treat them much more harshly (if that is possible) than their White and Anglo counterparts.

At Meet The Team night, earlier this year, I found myself stalled at the barrier near Jozy Altidore, right next to a yellow shirt. He was glaring at me, so I smiled and said, 'Hey, how's it going.' He punches his fist into his hand and says: 'I was hoping for a little action with my buddies tonight.' He was in the practice bubble with a bunch of families -- what kind of violence was he hoping for?

And this issue is specific to soccer. The yellow shirts do not abuse fans at Jets or Giants games. In fact, the media finally reported last year that security stands by silently while women are assaulted on the spirals. If the yellow shirts were really providing security, they would be ejecting men who abuse women at NFL games. But, they don't.

NJSEA has a double-standard, and it means that soccer fans are left to fend for themselves against a lawless band of private security goons hired by a quasi-governmental agency.

Look at the behavior of the State Police at matches, and you will see that they do not unilaterally support the actions of the yellow shirts. The State Police are required to assist the yellow shirts, but it is clear they do not condone their behavior.

NJSEA has been allowed to perpetuate a culture of violence against soccer fans. Do we have to wait until someone is killed before this will be stopped?

I'm glad you are writing about this, but if the media equivocates then there is no story. Soccer fans in the area need the media to expose this violence.

Thank you for this article, and I hope you will continue to shed light on this situation.

[Speedball]

"After reading the ESPN article prior to reading this comment, it sounds as if Binkley had a chip on his shoulder to prove that he's the "ultimate" soccer fan and more than likely, felt like it was his "duty" to prove it to those wearing Beckham jerseys.

Posted by:Ryan | July 21, 2008 at 01:37 PM "

Ryan, you don't know Tom Binkley like I do, you weren't there like I was, you're not a Red Bull fan like I am, you know nothing of this situation. Tom did not attack someone for wearing a Beckham jersey. He yelled down at Beckham because he was looking at the crowd instead of following the play of the game. He told Beckham that he "sucked". The soccer mom got on his case because of this one word, because, presumably, she keeps her kids in a vacuum container when not at Giants Stadium.

Let me know the next time a Giants season ticket holder gets tossed from a game because a visiting Eagle fan complains to security that someone yelled "McNabb sucks!".

[MasterShake]

Lets not pretend that because you bring your kid to a game you can curse at us without any repercussions.

[JayDelight]

Binkley dropped a "F" bomb in Section 109. That's what occured.

That's fine if security didn't like, they could have easily moved him to a different section. Or at worse, kicked him out of the stadium for the evening.

Lifetime banishment from Giants Stadium? Your kidding yourself.

[mikeK]

BanBinkley- IT'S SOCCER! IT'S A SPORT! S-P-O-R-T. COMPETITION!

The fact is, Binks loves his team. Absoultely adores. He drives from Virginia, gas prices how high, because he loves his team.

How do you think a Devils fan gets treated when he walks into the garden with a Devils jersey on. How does a Patriots fan get treated when he walks in a Jets home game? Like crap, of course! How could you expect people to be "Oh, I see you're a Patriots fan. Cool." IT DOESN'T HAPPEN! AND IT SHOULDN'T! It's sports, and people are passionate about their teams.

If you were smart, you'd tell your daughter to wear neutral colors. Keep the Becks jersey at home. Wear it when you go out to LA to see him play at his home field.

Better yet, throw an Angel jersey on her and root for your local team, ya puke.

[Allen]

"Think about it. If you ran the stadium, would you care much about a tenant who doesn't make you much money, and more importantly, is leaving in a year?"

For the sake of fans in the NYC area, I hope that is true. But be warned, Kroenke used to claim it was being at Invesco that was tieing their hands when it came to security. The same sort of shenanigans are occurring at their very own stadium, The Dick. And they -surprise, suprise- still claim that their hands are tied. I'd be very worried that ownership that isn't interested in solving the issue right away is always going to be coming up with reason why they can't fix it today.

[Christopher]

Revs fans feel your pain. We have a similar, but not as caustic relationship with our security team. NJSEA is by far the worst of the worse. Keep fighting the good fight ESC.

[gerald]

People who comment on Binkley without knowing the facts should shut up. go to the metrofanatic board and get the facts

[TCompton]

I can't wait for Red Bull New York to move to Harrison. While I think the club has been mismanaged up until this point, you can put me into the group that believes (maybe foolishly) that once the club moves into their own home, the worst will be over.

I've seen over-zealous security guards at a lot of soccer games at RFK, and unfortunately, the miscommunication from both sides (the fans and the CSC) has lead to a lot of the challenges we see today. United has done a lot to help the supporters to feel safer though.

For example, the growth and success of the Barra Brava has also brought in a lot of "fans" who believe they can do whatever they want, where ever they want. This comes from la Barra Brava's "general admission" policy to their sections. While the leadership of the Barra had, in the past, done a good job of keeping everything under control, the growth in the number of members/guests in recent years has made it extremely difficult for them.

As a result, la Barra Brava, the Screaming Eagles, DC United, and CSC has worked together to put a railing seperating the general admission sections of la Barra Brava section from the ticket only seation of the Screaming Eagles. Additionally, DC United and CSD has provided the Screaming Eagles with ushers to help move the "general admission" crowd out of the Screaming Eagles sections.

The part where I believe that the Red Bull organization can help is to work with their support groups and Security to prevent these events from happening to begin with.

[BETO]

being strict with nitpicky rules are one thing. being openly belligerent and violently hostile towards patrons who are non-violent is beyond ridiculous. i HATE the NJSEA.

they mistreat, intimidate, and abuse paying customers at every game and get away with it.

[Paul]

Neither Ives nor anyone else in this thread has described exactly what happened. Even assuming that the security people were looking to cause a confrontation, and/or are biased or dangerous, it's hard to evaluate things without knowing the basic facts. What kind of "verbal confrontation"? What other "bad behavior"? If security overreacted or ejected too many people, it would be helpful to know what or whop started the ball rolling. Is it possible that some of the ejections were called for?

[Kyonk]

The yellows also get a little big for their britches because at soccer games, there's not as many people as at football games. They see the empty seats and feel like they're more in control than a Jets game. They're still dicks though.

[Jeff]

Ives,

It sounds like you are trying to start a revolution. Let's hope some people who read this don't take it too far.

After reading a lot of people's comments, it sounds like every one has a complex about being a soccer fan. "we aren't treated right, they are mean to us...blah, blah, blah." I saw the same thing yesterday at the Crew game first hand. It's becoming a joke.

[brett]

my guess is these "security gaurds" were Highschool Football jocks that failed in real life and now looking for ways to relive their glory days by picking on fans of a sport they deem inferior....

the faster our teams can get out of football stadiums and into their own houses the better.....

[MasterShake]

Jeff, none of us want trouble what we want is fair, respectful and justifiable treatment. Like I said there was a world of difference when NJ state troopers showed up, they knew how to diffuse the situation.
NJSEA guards couldnt stop instigating with racial slurs and profanity. Maybe once you get banned for life you will understand.

[Mike V.]

I consider Tom Binkley to be a good friend of mine and to hear people who don't know him attack him is discusting. He was reported to security for telling Beckham he sucks. The fact that the complaint was even taken seriously is a joke.

The real problem here (not in 101 which is complete different situation) is that people have to realize that soccer is a sporting event like any other in a country. It is not a special secluded family bubble sport that exists one night a year for you to bring the kiddies too. There are people who invest their money,time and passion into this sport and the fact that a soccer mom at her first game holds precedent is ludicrous.

My father has brought me to sporting events since I was 3 and I heard cursing at baseball, football, hockey and basketball games. Soccer is no different and just so all hyper sensitive parents can relax I am a perfectly well adjusted succesful person despite the fact that I heard the word sucks at a young age.

Soccer is not an exception, it has die hard fans and does not serve to entertain families for one night a year, despite the behaviour of front offices around the league. If you expect to go to a game and not hear a curse or hear comments when you cheer for the opposing team then don't come, it's as simple as that.

[Paul]

Interesting to see this today - we had another problem Saturday night - over zealous security trying to usher us out after the game - I have season tickets at the front of section 111. About 5 minutes after the game, while there are still players on the field and a line trying to walk up the stairs, the ushers are forcing people out of their seats. They started picking a fight at a couple that stayed seated and said there there was no-where to go so they would sit a while longer. Unbelievable considering it took us close to an hour to get out of the stadium with all the construction traffic. I've noticed that they started this activity a few games back.

[JH]

mikeK - I've read some pretty dumb things on this site in the past, but excusing bad behavior because someone loves their team is no doubt the dumbest, most juvenile thing I've read.

So, basically, you have no problem then with the West Ham fans who supposedly started a fight in Columbus. The fact that they love their team and came a long way to see them I guess gave them that right?

Wow, you're not that smart are you?

[MV]

JH, If you went to a yankee game in a Bosox jersey would you expect not to hear anything? (for the record that's not even what happened to Binkley who didn't yell at anyone for wearing a jersey) If your wearing a jersey of an opposing team and expect not to catch any flack maybe you're the one who's not so smart.