Wilman Conde for Ante Razov: A trade that should happen

Lost in the midst of a crazy week of soccer was the quiet news that Real Salt Lake traded away midfielder Carey Talley to Chivas USA for a conditional draft pick. Not exactly a blockbuster, but the sort of small deal that tends to get done in MLS early in the year.

I'm proposing that we stop waiting for later in the year for a potential blockbuster. There is a trade that can be made right now that could help two teams fill needs and help two players head to more comfortable environs.

Chivas USA should trade forward Ante Razov to the Chicago Fire for defender Wilman Conde.

Why does the trade make sense? Well, for starters, Chivas USA's defense is awful. I mean horrendous. Claudio Saurez looks to have lost a step and now the team is faced with the likelihood of being without defenders Lawson Vaughn and Jonathan Bornstein for several weeks. Wilman Conde is one of the best defenders in the league and someone capable of anchoring a back-line.

What's in it for Chicago? It would reunite the Fire with one of it's all-time greats, and a player who happens to play a position the club could use an upgrade at. Razov can still store goals in MLS, as evidenced by his stellar season in 2007. One thing he doesn't do well is perform in environments where things aren't going well. Chivas USA qualifies as such a place right now and if the rumors are true about a strained relationship between Razov and Preki then that would give Chivas USA and Razov yet another reason to want to make this deal.

If you're thinking that the Fire forward stable is crowded enough, think again. Tomasz Frankowski has shown flashes but he has also been injury prone. Chad Barrett is as erratic as they come, making great plays one game and scuffing open chances the next. Chris Rolfe looks like an ideal candidate to partner with Razov, but he also has issues with staying healthy. Then you have Andy Herron, or at least the artist formerly known as Andy Herron, who is looking like a shell of his former self.

Would head coach Denis Hamlett and technical director Frank Klopas want to mess with a good thing right now? Well, both are fully aware that Conde's unhappiness could become an issue, and both know Razov full well. Here's something funny: if you take a glance at the 1998 Chicago Fire team photo you can find Hamlett (an assistant coach at the time), Razov, Klopas (a player at the time) and current Fire defender Diego Gutierrez all in a block together. The point is Hamlett and Klopas know Razov as well as anybody in MLS and if anyone can bring the best out of Razov, it's Hamlett.

Is it worth it for Chivas USA? The Goats have attacking weapons in Maykel Galindo, Sacha Kljestan, Pancho Ramirez Mendoza and newly-acquired Alecko Eskandarian (though he has yet to show that much), but the defense has looked downright putrid this season so the deal makes perfect sense. The real question is whether Conde would be okay with a move to Chivas USA. He obviously still wants to play for the Red Bulls, but that isn't happening any time soon.

Can the trade work financially? Razov's salary is almost $100,000 more than Conde's but sources tell me Conde's deal also includes a $100,000 a year payment to Millionarios as part of the transfer that brought him to MLS, so if you add that to his salary then both players create the same hit to the cap.

Some skeptics might wonder if it's worth it to deal a young defender in his prime for a 33-year-old forward. Considering Conde is very unlikely to stick around MLS beyond 2009, if he doesn't leave sooner, it would be entirely worth it for Chicago to make the deal and make a serious push for an MLS Cup title.

The trade can and should happen.

What do you think of the proposed trade? Fire fans, do you want Razov back? Chivas USA fans, would you part with Razov for a rock-solid defender? Share your thoughts below.

Comments

[MetroFlip73]

I'm all for that trade. Then JCO can send a package deal to acquire Conde from ChivasUSA.

Good idea, Ives!

[sprool11]

You're crazy. Chivas are having problems scoring goals. Why would they trade a forward for a defender?

[emilio]

This trade makes no sense for Chivas, they need goals.

[mls fan]

Was just thinking last night that Razov to TFC in some sort of deal involving Cunningham/Dunivant may make some sense. TFC gets a better fit for forward in 4-5-1 and Chivas gets striker & defender. Would depend on what Chivas could package $$/draft picks.

[El Rey]

Ives,

I was thinking the same thing the other day. With a bench that includes, Marmol, Robinson and CJ it's well worth the risk, especailly if the Fire can also sneak a pick away from Chivas. I always said that trading Razov and Marsch away was the stupidest thing that Sarachan and Guppy ever did. Razov would be able to light it up with the kind of service that Blanco would be providing for him!!

[Phillip]

Chivas needs DEFENDERS.

They have allowed 15 goals this season!

[Mighty]

Not a good idea Ives...... You being a Metro Fan should know that Razov is a Metro/Red bull killer.... that is not going to help the red bulls. Unless we can trade with Chivas for Conde then we are good.

[Giorgia Chinaglia]

Razov! Please! He is an okay striker, but that is all. While he would help the Sting or whatever they are called nowadays, he is no Chinaglia! No one put the ball in the back of the net as many times as me, my friend. I was the leading scorer in the North American Soccer League! I was Chinaglia! And Still Am!

[Don]

As a Fire fan I'd love to see Razov back, esp. if he could get on a scoring streak like last year. The real question is age/health. Can he last a full season? I'm more than ready to dump Conde who has shown loyalty only to Osorio. I think he would be a good addition to Chivas. If I were the Fire I'd want a sweetener of some kind though.

[Steve D M]

Well the question all of this is, does Ante want to leave LA, his home. He grew up in the area and has family there, would he be happy in Chicago again?

Personally I would love to see it happen. Consistent forward who in his last two years learned how to be more of a complete player makig key passes in the midfield that will help with goal scoring.

[Ives]

Mighty, I am NOT a Red Bulls fan. Not sure how many different ways I can say that. I'm a journalist that covers MLS who is based in the NJ/NY area so I cover the Red Bulls more because this is where I am.

[irishoutsider]

If we're playing the wild speculation game, Conde is only likely to leave Chicago for cash. Either some foreign club takes a flier on his transfer, or a Western team deals some picks/allocation considerations.

However, Wilman either rots in Chicago or gets his passport in order. Any trade in the league puts him one step closer to NY, and we know the chances of that...

[paul]

Absurd, an over the hill or at least past his prime player for a young defender who cost $300,000? This makes no sense to the Fire. CJ and Guti are old and we need their replacements. Settle with Conde or trade him for young quality, not a one season fix of something no broken. Thanks but no thanks.

[El Rey]

If this were to happen there is no way Chivas would trade Conde. Deam on!!

[Brant]

Depends on whether you get a motivated Razov or a pouting Razov.
If he's pouting, he ain't worth 3 kids from the local U13 side.

[tommymcb]

I like the deal. The key question is: How many years left on Razov's contract?

If this is the last year, do the deal.

If there are two more years on the contract, don't do it.

[Adam]

If I'm the Fire I don't take this deal for most of the reasons stated. If the deal were Razov + allocation money + a draft pick and if Barrett falls off (he's currently leading the team with 5 points) and Frankowski doesn't perform, then sure. But that's a lot of ifs for the deal.

[Homey Boehme]

If the Fire really want to get rid of Conde, couldn't they try to get the LA Galaxy to buy him? I mean, the Galaxy REALLY need help in defense.

[Dominghosa]

The funniest thing here is that Mighty thought Ives was a Metro fan.
Almost as ridiculous as this proposed trade. (Kidding.)
Though Chivas does need some goals.

[Don]

Hey, if you are going to impersonate someone, at least spell the name right! GiorgiO.

[John]

Ives - have you been channeling Alexi Lalas?

Why would anyone want Razov? At this point he is only good for 15 games a year at a $255,000 cap figure.

Chicago has plenty up front (you forgot to mention Carr and Nyarko above - in addition to the four strikers you did mention). Chicago's only area that is slim is the midfield -- where the starters are terrific, but there's not much after that.

Chicago is in a position of strength with Conde, and should look at western conference teams that have depth in midfield - Houston, Colorado.

[Eugene]

I was thinking just this weekend that Chivas USA should pick up Conde, but I don't see them trading Razov for Conde. Why would they do it? Conde is out-of-favor at Chicago, he's just a salary cap drag and nuisance in the locker room, why would Chivas trade one of their best players for him?

I was thinking more in the line of a high 2009 draft pick (2nd round). At least that way Chicago get something for a player that isn't playing and Chicago also benefits from clearing up cap space.

Chivas USA need Razov. Panchito doesn't score much on his own and Galindo is better as a right wing/forward. Chivas still need a high forward who can hold the ball well and is good in the air, not to mention has a killer instinct. That's not Eskandarian or Atiba Harris for sure.

So if Chivas USA are thinking of getting better, they need to pick up some centerbacks for sure, but I don't see them weakening their offense to do it.

[papi grande]

nice try ives. we are not trading conde for razov so you in turn can trade someone to chivas for conde. in short, and i think it is about time everyone in new york got on board with this.....CHICAGO IS NOT GOING TO TRADE CONDE!

[Jerry]

whoa ! take it easy there Ives, no reason to get all hyped up about NOT being a red bulls fan,Your from Jersey you cover the RB behind the scenes and practice I dont see why would wouldnt be able to "convert" you into a RB fan! whenever ur ready buddy we'll be waiting for ya lol jk

[Dante]

If I was the Fire I would do this deal in a second. You are getting a top of the line forward, even on the downside of his career for a player that is excess and doesn't even want to be there. The salaries match up, so it works out for everyone. The Fire could use a strong forward like Razov. He could work real well with Blanco, Frankowski and Rolfe. They are all smaller and quicker (well, except Blanco. He isn't quicker than a corner flag).

For Chivas, this would give them a reliable defender, and he's Hispanic to boot. Does that even matter anymore to that team?

[dabull]

While it would be a nice sentimental move, thats where the advantages for the Fire end. I like what the Fire have at the forward position with Frankowski, Rolfe, Barrett, Nyarko, and Herron. I would rather bring in someone younger, not a one year rental.

How about Conde for Angel? I know its not going to happen, but as long as we're dealing with baseless hypothetical situations, I'd thought I'd throw that on out there too. It would help both teams. NYRB gets a good defender (after losing out on Marmol), keeps Altidore, Conde gets reunited with JCO, JCO doesn't have to get criticized anymore for failing to bring in all the South American players he promised, and the Fire get the forward help they apparently desperately need. Win-win situation. Do it.

[brett]

personally i still feel we are a bit thin on the wings....

Thorington is ripping it apart, but for how long... Mapp has been getting on most fire fans' last nerve... his lack of effort leaves little to be desired... Carr is a sub at best, definately not a starter.. guess marmol may add some possible depth there...

or perhaps a young attacking midfielder... blanco isnt getting any younger, and with the hits he takes, injury may occur sooner or later... thats even assuming he wishes to extend his contract if its offered... we have a team full of players who can strike at any time... several players with 2-3 goals and a handfull with 1.... obviously no standouts, but we are finding the net... if we trade conde look to the future, not today

[DDT5583]

How about Conde and Herron for Razov and a 1st round pick in 2009. That takes care of the cap hit that chicago would take in a straight up trade, gives Chivas a forward who can play in MLS (not that he always shows up, but he could be ok given the right situation) Plus it frees up 2 international slots for the fire.

[foozer]

Ives, it's a decent trade idea and has potential to benefit both teams. But why not just start a thread on BigSoccer about it? No offense, but I come to your site for news, not opinions.

[Rich]

One could play the negative what-if game with Chicago's Defensive roster as well. CJ Brown injured and aged - who knows if he could ever come back at sufficient strength, Gutierrez is up in years and is in his last season, can he continue to go all 90 and stay injury free? Prideux was waived from Colorado at the beginning of the season - not exactly a defensive powerhouse team - can he really keep up his good form? Soumare is getting the most minutes of his young career thus far - yes he is young - but will he hit the wall after playing a full 90 every match? Dasan Robinson hasnt been fully fit, and frankly looked like he packed on a few pounds in the offseason - one year wonder?
And finally, even Conde seems to be ruled out of games lately more by ailment than by coaches decision.

The Fire Forwards could be bolstered by Nyarko, who by all accounts is impressing in the reserve matches. If the Fire should trade for anything, it would be a midfielder where there is less depth. Someone to push the seemingly un-motivated Mapp. Cover for the TRULY injury prone Thorrington. Or someone who can take some minutes off of Blanco, who at his age, probably shouldnt be playing every minute of every game if the Fire want anything from him in the post-season. Only D-mid with Marmol and Pause is seemingly solid.

[Ives]

Foozer, my site always has had and always will have opinion. What do you think columns are? This is a column suggesting a trade. That's it. If you don't like the idea then say so, but to suggest that there's no point to even bring it up doesn't make sense. The discussion going on in this comments section tells me it has stirred up some thought, which is one of the objectives of any good opinion piece at the end of the day.

[Mark]

If the Fire believe they can win now, the deal makes sense since there is a limited shelf life on Razov at his age. But as a great coach said, winning isn't everything, it's the only thing, so if I were Klopas/Hamlett, I'd mortgage a bit of the future and gamble I could win now.
Chicago has some young guys who are talented, but some key veterans aren't getting any younger, so why not go for it now.

Only thing I'd change is I'd want a draft pick in addition to Ante to help get another young player in a future draft class.

[Eugene]

How about Conde and Herron for Razov and a 1st round pick in 2009. That takes care of the cap hit that chicago would take in a straight up trade, gives Chivas a forward who can play in MLS (not that he always shows up, but he could be ok given the right situation) Plus it frees up 2 international slots for the fire.

Posted by: DDT5583 | May 12, 2008 at 03:07 PM

This looks like a good deal with a question mark of doing Conde and Calen Carr for Razov and a 2nd round pick.

I think Chivas USA could make use of Calen Carr's speed, put him on the right wing and move Galindo to the central forward -- that way they wouldn't be sacrificing speed on the wing. Herron could also be interesting. But if Chivas USA are smart about it, they wouldn't give up a 1st round draft pick.

[Luke]

No offense Ives, but this trade makes no sense for the Fire who are presently overloaded at forward. Try again with a midfielder and you may have something.

[Stevie B]

Being overloaded with mediocre to average forwards isn't the same as being loaded with good forwards. Ante Razov is better than every forward on our roster. Chris Rolfe's the only one even close and he can't stay healthy.

I'm personally tired of Conde's act and would love to have Razov back. Come on, a member of the '98 team coming back to help bring back the title? Pull the trigger Denis.

[Drew]

I agree with Brett - if the trade stays as proposed, trade for future...1st round draft pick(s) and/or cash instead of Razov. I also like DDT5583's suggestion...maybe the best yet. Fire get's improvement up front plus possible top 5 pick in draft and Chivas gets Herron as a replacement up top and a top end defender. Good idea.

Rich - I agree with you that going forward the Fire may end up a bit thin in back, but you'll still have Marmol, Robinson & Segares. And with Guti's high form this year, he just may come back next year. Brown may be back too, so I think we'll be alright especially with tranfer opportunities and the draft to restock in the future. Plus, there's no way Conde is coming back next year anyhow, so we might as well get something for him now rather than watch him sit all year or play 15 minutes here or there.

I enjoy the speculation Ives, not all of us only want news. Don't let Foozer get ya down.

[Barry Jive and His Uptown Five]

On a scale of 1 to 10, this proposal rates: crappy.

It isn't like Conde is being singled out for bench time - Robinson isn't seeing much of the field either. The team is on a good run of form, defense especially, and it would be unwise to shake it up because Conde is a whiney little baby.

The Colombian needs to grow a pair and bide his time. He'll be back out there sooner or later. If he hadn't come down with a tummy ache he would have seen time in the NE game instead of Woolard.

[Giorgio Chinaglia]

My apologies on the poor spelling. I was up all night making love to models and drinking Chivas Regal. What were you up to? Crying yourself to sleep? If I wish to spell my name wrong, I can because I am the greatest goalscorer in the history of the North Ametricam Soccer League!

[stickfigure]

i wouldn't trade conde to any MLS team as it would then present the possibility that he ends up with NYRB (which must be prevented at all costs). sell him to a team in columbia. i doubt we'd ever see his mug in the MLS again.

razov is getting old - i don't see him as a big upgrade at this point. not to mention - until there is a problem with scoring, then why change? barret has been more consistent so far this year and should continue to improve. rolfe, frankowski, carr, nyarko, herron - i personally think we are fine up front.

[Andy]

I think a Conde deal (for the Fire) will make more sense with a Mexican Club.

Players in Mexican league have a better success rate to make in Europe!!!!

Conde to Club America!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Frimp]

Good call Ives I agree, brilliant...but MetroFlip73's idea is genius haha...

[Felix]

You make a decent point about the Fire's forwards, and the questions they come with (even though you omitted Patrick Nyarko and how high the coaches are on him), but the fact of the matter is things are working right now... why change it? And how is adding another injury-prone, aging forward in Razov going to fix anything? If anything, get another younger player with a high-upside in a position we are thin at (right or left midfield, goalkeeper) for Wilman Conde. Like for like.

[Mike]

Yes. Chicago should trade the best defender in the league for a guy that will be running on fumes in the not too distant future. Makes so much sense, Ives!

[Warren]

wait, im confused. Is this actually a proposed trade thats on the table or is this just an idea you have?

[kevin]

As a Fire fan, I would be strongly against this deal. I like Razov, he's contributed a lot to Chicago over the years, but he is well past his prime and would not be worth dealing Conde straight up for.

Let's face it, Razov is well past his prime and although he had a good 2007 season, he wasn't able to stay healthy enough to make an impact in the playoffs and he has like one goal so far this season. Not really the stuff of a player who justifies trading away one of the league's best and most versatile defenders for.

Plus, I don't think he'd fit in very well on our team. I know that the guy has quality, but if the Fire are going to go looking for another forward they need to find someone with more athleticism than Razov. Yeah, the guy is a solid finisher (not as good as Rolfe though), but what would really improve the Fire's attack would be someone with the speed to stretch the defence and create space for Blanco's probing passes out of midfield, or a target man who could get on the end of Mapp's crosses and provide better hold up play for Rolfe. Razov would only be an upgrade in terms of finishing in comparison to Barrett (let's be honest, who wouldn't?), but I'm not even sure that would be worth it because Barrett atleast does a lot of little things that do make the Fire's offense run (see his two assists in the last two weeks, and his great run that freed the space for Rolfe's goal last week against New England). Plus, his hard work as the first line of Chicago's defense really does make a difference.

The truth is, if we had Razov I would probably start him over Barrett, but I certainly don't think he's worth trading Conde for. Offer us Galindo or Klestjian and we'll talk.

[kevin]

also, with regards to the Club America idea. IDK about Club America, but if we could send Conde to Monterrey and somehow pickup Jared Borgetti I'd be all for it. Or Nelson Cuevas who, I think, is currently in the Paraguayan league.

[Joe]

I would not like to see Ante back here. We dont need him and it would not be worth it at all. Conde is a good player and still very young. Razov is old and not gonna do anything different than Barrett, Frankowski, Herron or Nyarko. Do you know if the Fire have put Conde on the trading block? Cuz I would like to hear/see some offers that other teams would make for him.

[brett]

Joe- it matters NOT that Conde is still young.... he will not be in a fire uniform after this year... a trade must happen in the summer... whether it be to another MLS team or an abroad team...

personally i stick to my original idea.. get either a young prospect or a quality draft pick... or if we are looking at a player who is short term fix, get it to fill in key spots like the midfield or GK... we do have some promising talent coming up in Nyarko, Lowry, and King...

looking into the future could be best... whether Blanco re-signs or could get injured, we will need someone to be able to fill in as an attacking mid... Busch is doing great, but for how long?? do we really have faith in our backups?? between being injury proned and older one wonders how much longer he'll be between any pipes...

[Eric]

I agree with Kevin. Any trade that involves Chicago getting Nelson Cuevas would be worth it. As for trading him to Chivas though, the only player that I'd like to get for Conde is Klejstan, and Chivas would never go for that deal.

[Johnny]

Some of you Fire fans are first class idiots. Why in the world would anybody trade full value for Conde? He is your headache and you have to get rid of him. If you're serious about trying to win a title you need a proven goal-scorer, somthing you don't have right now. That group of forwards is a joke. Rolfe is decent but can't stay healthy. Chad Barrett can't get out of his own way. Calen Carr is awful and living off the glory of one decent half of playoff soccer. Andy Herron? The guy is a fat tub of goo. Frankowski? He's looked okay but is already breaking down.

If the Fire doesn't trade Conde it will be a big mistake, but some of the trade demands on here are insane.

Conde for Kljestan? Keep dreaming.
Conde for draft picks? Are you kidding me? Seriously? How retarded is that suggestion? You have the team to get far in the playoffs. Make a trade for a big forward. PERIOD.