Marmol leaves Red Bulls, will train with Chicago (but has NOT signed a contract)

Paraguayan midfielder Lider Marmol has left the New York Red Bulls and is heading to Chicago to train with the Chicago Fire. Marmol has yet to sign a contract with MLS or the Fire, but he will train with the Fire and make a decision on whether he wants to stay and sign with Chicago.

Marmol's extended training stint with the Red Bulls came to an end on Friday after the Red Bulls determined they could no longer wait for something to change in the current deadlock involving them and the Chicago Fire, who hold the first right to sign Marmol within MLS. After being told his time with the Red Bulls was over, Marmol and his representantive arranged for Marmol to head to Chicago to train with the Fire, which had been in constant contact with Marmol's agent during the past week.

"It's a big step that he's coming here and it's a different thing talking on the phone and meeting face to face," Fire technical director Frank Klopas said. "He's a good young player who we think can make us better so we're happy."

Klopas acknowledged that Marmol will need some time to settle in with Chicago, but he believes the Fire will make the 23-year-old midfielder feel comfortable and want to sign with Chicago.

"I can respect that he wanted to play for a certain coach but this is professional sports and sometimes you don't end up in situations that you want," Klopas said. "We have a first-class environment here with a coach who likes him and wants him here. (Marmol) is a young player and this is a learning process for him).

"We're confident that he is going to feel comfortable here," Klopas said. "We'll give him some time to meet the players and train and get settled in and take it from there."

As for this story on the MLS website saying Marmol has already signed, it is wrong.

If the Fire convinces Marmol to sign, it will add a versatile and skillful player who could step in and start either in central defense or defensive midfield. He is a sharp passer, very strong on the ball and has a powerful shot.

Do I think he will sign? As dejected and unhappy as Marmol was with being unable to play for the Red Bulls, I think Chicago will make him feel comfortable and he will wind up agreeing to a deal. Between the veterans on the Fire, and Denis Hamlett and Frank Klopas, I'm pretty sure they will give Marmol the hard sell and make him feel wanted and welcome. It might take a little time for Marmol to make a final decision, but I see him being a Fire player and starter by May (potentially in time for the first meeting between the Fire and Red Bulls on May 25).

The development makes an already disappointing year on the player acquisition front even more frustrating for Red Bulls head coach Juan Carlos Osorio, who had coveted Marmol as the answer to the team's need for another defensive midfielder to pair with Seth Stammler.

What do you think of this development? Share your thoughts below.

Comments

[DDT5583]

So much for not wanting to play in Chicago. He's signed with the FIRE!!!!

[Alejandro Ruiz]

Conde? Check.
Marmol? Check.
Nyarko? Check.

So that's 3-1 CHI-NYRB.

Ooh, that's gotta sting.

[Ives]

Marmol has NOT signed with the Fire. He will go to Chicago and train with the Fire and decide whether he wants to sign.

[DDT5583]

Story wrong? A real bummer if true. Why would they write such a thing. Monsters, they are!

[David Berger]

Alejandro Ruiz,

What a stupid post. Just wow.

[THE Nick]

Deep down, Conde and Marmol DO NOT want to play in Shitcago and never will.

Shame their hand is being forced.

Thats ok though...the fact that players want to play in NY and need to be FORCED to play in Shitcago makes me quite happy...cuz in the end....the team made up of players who are properly motivated and are playing where they want to be will be the better team.

[KP]

Nick,
Based on what I've read, Conde would go play for JCO if he coached LA, SJ, DC, etc. it doesn't matter where. It has NOTHING to do with wanting to play in NY.

Ives, didn't he train in Chicago late last year?

[Matt S]

"Thats ok though...the fact that players want to play in NY and need to be FORCED to play in Shitcago makes me quite happy...cuz in the end....the team made up of players who are properly motivated and are playing where they want to be will be the better team."

But aren't these players that want to play in New York being FORCED to play in New jersey?

[Alejandro Ruiz]

In my defense, I didn't call them NJRB.
But seriously, after all the claims that
Chicago *had* to give up Conde for Dema and loose change. Just so we could give the Red Bulls the exact player they needed.

The same with Marmol, that the Fire had no right to follow league rules to claim a player.

We also, got Patrick Nyarko with NY's draft pick as compesation for the loss of JCO. Which is turning out to be a blessing in disguise. But none of this would have happened if he hadn't walked.

It's vindicating that the Fire weren't pressured into doing anything...just because well...the Red Bulls would really appreciate it.

So it's not actually a stupid post at all. It's crass and arrogant, but not stupid. Although since Marmol hasn't signed but at least won't play for the Red Bulls, it's more like 2-1-1.

[Adam]

The journalist integrity of Kent McDill has been called into question. I see. This from the person who said: "With the Chicago Fire holding firm on its desire to sign Marmol, and with Marmol only being interested in signing with the Red Bulls"

Funny, if he didn't have interest in signing in Chicago, why is he training there now?

[Alejandro Ruiz]

I think both Marmol and Conde got a good look at the standings and weighed the relative strengths of each team.

[Ives]

Adam, I wasn't calling anyone's anything into question. The story was wrong, plain and simple. Frank Klopas confirmed that Marmol hadn't signed yet.

And Marmol is going to Chicago because it's his only option and his agent basically told him you can turn your back on a six-figure contract if you want, but at least give it a try first.

[Phillip]

Another stupid MLS rule ...

[Dannyc58]

Alejandro Ruiz,

You also assume NYRB would want Nyarko, so I think it should be 1-1-1.

[Mike from linden]

Matt Kassel, gone
Lidier Marmol, gone
Red Bulls Front Office are a bunch of idiots

[quakes fan]

"Shame their hand is being forced.

Thats ok though...the fact that players want to play in NY and need to be FORCED to play in Shitcago makes me quite happy"

I have no sympathy for Conde as he signed a contract. Yes, that's right a contract. The only person forcing him to be in Chicago...himself.

[Mark100]

I agree in a way. I don't have much confidence in the Red Bull front office. Why have a youth academy if you won't sign it's best player? Hopefully we'll get a managing director who knows soccer.

[kpugs]

Anyone still whining about Matt Kassel has zero understanding of the situation and must be illiterate. Congrats morons.

[Adam]

I apologize, though every thing that I heard from this blog said that there was no way that Marmol would even consider Chicago. Marmol and his agent, probably have no intention on turning their backs on MLS, and made the sensible decision to train and perhaps sign with the Fire because New York is not an option.

Was the reason you were so adamant that Marmol would either play for the Red Bulls or nowhere in MLS from something he or his agent said? If so, I missed it.

[Mark100]

Kpugs- Disagreeing with you does not make me a moron, luckily. Kassel didn't sign because he had a lousy offer. Now, if he develops the way Agoos hopes, he'll end up going elsewhere.

[Chris]

I Hate this League. I Truly Hate this League. You would think they would want to take care of their flagship franchise in the New York market and work a way around this idiotic rule. I'm sure they would have done it for LA.

[El Rey]

I just wanted to thank NJRB once again for taking care of Marmol these last few weeks. Keeping him fit and helping rehab his injury.

I can't wait until next year when the Fire lure Kassel away from New Jersey for an assistant coach and a can of beans.

EAT IT JCO. Karma's a KICK in the A$$!!!

[El Rey]

FYI Chris,

You can't be a flag ship franchise until you've won some hardware, much like LA can't be a superclub if they can't beat anyone!!

[The C.A.]

"I Hate this League. I Truly Hate this League. You would think they would want to take care of their flagship franchise in the New York market and work a way around this idiotic rule. I'm sure they would have done it for LA.

Posted by: Chris | "

Chris, the flagship franchise will be New York #2.

[mitchell]

Alexi Lalas says the Galaxy are the flagship franchise of MLS.

[HerthyaBerwyn]

I Hate this League. I Truly Hate this League. You would think they would want to take care of their flagship franchise in the New York market and work a way around this idiotic rule. I'm sure they would have done it for LA.

Posted by: Chris | April 18, 2008 at 11:18 PM

--This is the expression of the attitude of entitlement we all despise. This is why we hate NY and why its so nice when "WE 'CLUB' NY. Earn it or Frakk off.

[EDB]

Seriously .. the rule was in place before osorio brought marmol over. Maybe Agooooooos and CO should have thought about that before inviting him for a trial

[anotherbodymurdered]

Chris, you epitomize the worst aspects of MLS fandom.

[ben]

Chris, that post would have left our very own Super Sting in awe !!

Ives, a little backtracking necessary, huh? I don't entirely blame you for your one-sided mouthpiece posts re: the chicago vs. NJ offseason+. They keep you in their good graces so I can read more info. You having to back off your stances makes the aggravation of sifting through the hopeful, sometimes unrealistic opinions for the actual information worth it.

Take it easy guys, have fun running JCO out of town. I will thoroughly enjoy watching that happen.

[J]

I don't understand why all the silly Chicago fans keep saying its Karma with Osorio etc. As reported earlier, Osorio had an exit option, he did not take it to be fair to the Fire so RBNY gave you cash and a first round pick. So please stop bring that up, that is old hat by now.

[DeathWatch]

Is the Marmol situation MLS's fault or JCO's fault? In the case of his own contract he took care of himself (and he apparently knew enough about the Metro"stars" to know that Arena couldn't turn around a perennial loser and would be out the door). Good for him.

Three things JCO did not understand:
1) the league has rules and you better actually read and know them.
2) You don't make promises to young players that you can't keep because of #1 - they apparently don't have the same clever lawyers working on their contracts as you do.
3) Most importantly, the Metro"stars" tradition shows no sign of fading fast. This is an organization that prides itself on its history. Even as part of Red Bull, the Metro"stars" clearly has every intention to make the playoffs, oh, once every 12 years or so. Seriously, go to the history page on the Metro"stars" website and the only time you can find the word "playoffs" is in 2000!

[dabull]

Marmol should feel quite comfortable in Chicago. Granted, JCO isn't there, but he can still trade JCO love stories with Conde.

[dabull]

"I don't understand why all the silly Chicago fans keep saying its Karma with Osorio etc. As reported earlier, Osorio had an exit option, he did not take it to be fair to the Fire so RBNY gave you cash and a first round pick. So please stop bring that up, that is old hat by now."

That's true. In light of that story, Fire fans should be happy with the way JCO left. He forced NYRB to give the Fire $800,000 and a couple of draft picks. He didn't screw over the Fire, he screwed over NYRB. Welcome to the wonderful world of JCO.

[guillermo]

Any word on whether Marmol is still depressed?

[mitchell]

re guillermo:

Brilliant.

[METRO RED BULL NY FAN]

This stinks, but hey, rules are rules...
JCO shouldnt have brough thim in since he knew the rules...stupid prick

WE in NY know that we aren't going anywhere this season or any other season.

Angel injured and dumb a$$ Reina....

FU@K this club....

[giaco]

"If the Fire convinces Marmol to sign"

"As dejected and unhappy as Marmol was with being unable to play for the Red Bulls"

"I'm pretty sure they will give Marmol the hard sell and make him feel wanted and welcome"

The first part of this story was news--actual journalism--thank you. The quotes above are simply conjecture. They are extraineous and superfluous at best. I can understand that from a NJRB perspective, that JCO should not have tried to lure a potential player away from the team that had the first right to sign without knowing the rules of the league inside and out. Bad move on his part. I can even understand that a young professional has an invite from a respected coach(although at this point not by many fans)and wants to come and play for him--also not knowing/understanding the rules of the league.
However, the MLS has a different structure than most leagues worldwide in terms of how players move from here to there, and I think that as this case shows, obviously some changes are needed, as we may see situations like this more often--as the league improves it's image and becomes a more attractive prospect to foreign talent. Where I have to sharply disagree with your commentary, however, is that IF Marmol is experienceing any dissappointmet/distress/dejection about who he will be playing for, it is due to him being upset at not being able to play for the person who invited him, and really has nothing to do with the location of the new potential team. This is exemplified in how this worked last year when JCO tried to being Marmol to the Fire while JCO was there--they (the MLS) ad the player's agent couldn't some to terms. I think that's something we have all missed.
As we saw with Conde, and now in part with Marmol, for some reason, JCO has a way with players and makes them want to play for him. Despite the fact that I feel his footballing tactics as a coach were too overly defense-minded, JCO did, in fact, help to turn our (the Fire's) season around; that and he had help from a certain Mexican former national player and a few others. I am almost to the point where I don't feel it's a NY/Chicago "thing" anymore, it has to do more with the coach, the players, the rules, and how they were/are understood.

I don't think Chicago has to sell anything to Marmol--if he wants to play in this league (for now), his options are obvious--and that's what he has to realise. If there is a "hard sell" to be made, it is Marmol telling himself it's ok to play in the league and not under JCO (for now). Where he goes from there after that point remains to be seen.
This has nothing to do with team A or team B, but everything to do with a young man from another country and his agent trying to come to terms with the state of the way the big business picture here works.

Hell, I don't even hold anything against people who don't understand this--I simply understand that they do not remove themselves and their personal opinions from the picture enough to see the whole thing for what the situation quite possibly is. I know you have an audience to cater to, but honestly, if you could help by also trying to look at the biger picture here, I think it would help. I would think that most NY fans don't really care about Chicago, and I know that most of us here don't really care about NJ/NY. No need to stoke the flames with conjecture. Although, I guess this is a NY blog, so it is not exactely an unbaised news source--so I take it with a grain of salt.

Anywho, that's enough rambling from me. Who knows, perhaps Marmol signs with the Fire and then goes to NJ sometime in the future-or even funnier would be if he went to NY#2; I mean, he is young with a long career ahead of him.

[giaco]

I hate re-reading something and missing spelling errors. YECH!

[Ives]

Giaco, I get that some Fire fans just flat don't want to believe certain things I write because they aren't things they want to hear. That is fine, but the fact remains I have sources in New York and Chicago who provide me with insight that I pass along in my stories. These things are not pulled from thin air, or drawn solely from Red Bulls sources, as some would like to believe.

You can call it conjecture because I won't reveal my sources, but my 10 years of covering the sport gives me credibility that doesn't disappear simply because you don't like what I'm saying.

I have spoken to Lider Marmol on repeated occasions, and have had conversations both on and off the record with him and have known his opinion about this situation every step of the way. I have also spoke to sources with the Fire that have kept me informed about the club's intentions.

Marmol never wanted to go to Chicago, but now he knows he has no other choice if he wants to play in MLS. Was he naive to keep believing something would be resolved? Possibly, but that doesn't change the fact that he never intended to play for the Fire.

That's not a knock on the city of Chicago or the Fire (which is how some, including you have apparently taken it), that's just how Marmol felt. And yes, it was about him wanting to play for Osorio, plain and simple.

As for my "Chicago will make the hard sell" comment, the Fire will look to make Marmol feel welcome and show him that Chicago is somewhere he wants to be. How is that conjecture? That is common sense.

I have nothing against Chicago. I love Chicago, it's probably my second or third favorite city in the country (and I just might move there one day). I also don't have a problem with the Fire. I like and respect Denis Hamlett and Frank Klopas, both of which can tell you I'm not a Fire hater.

If you want to disagree with what I write, that's fine, but what I am writing is NOT conjecture.

[chilad]

Ives,
the thing you are failing to state is that Marmol has asked for more then what either team can pay.That is, he was asking for above DP money.. so the whole point is that Chicago wasnt holding anyone from signing with RedBull's.You keep making this about chicago and a vendetta, no it's about a player and an agent who are asking for a wage that neither club could fulfill. Its very likely that Marmol will not play in MLS at all, not because of Chicago playing "spoiler" but becasue of a difference of opinion on the wage matter.

[chilad]

correction..

"Its very likely that Marmol MAY not play in MLS at all, "

[Ives]

"Marmol has asked for more then what either team can pay."

Chilad, not sure where you think you heard that but that line is complete fiction. I wish I knew why some fans insist on cooking up pure fiction based on nothing more than their own assumptions of what is going on.

Money isn't the issue Chilad. Never has been.

[papa bear]

Guessing Chilad is getting his assumption from this: "The Fire have confirmed that Marmol is not yet under contract. Marmol's contract demands reportedly clashed with salary cap availability for both the Red Bulls and the Fire." in the MLSnet story and extrapolating since Chicago has over $300K in allocation money left and at least $400K in actual cap space left (i.e. they could pay someone $700K+ this year on a non-DP if they really wanted to)

[guillermo]

This from Luis' blog......

"I just want to play."

When asked about a report that claimed he had no interest in playing for the Fire, Marmol responded, "Those are lies -- I never said that."

Saturday's practice was closed to the media. Marmol will be in attendance for Sunday's Fire-Kansas City Wizards game at Toyota Park.

"It's a beautiful stadium," Marmol said. "I'll come here and cheer on my teammates."

[Jeff]

--When asked about a report that claimed he had no interest in playing for the Fire, Marmol responded, "Those are lies -- I never said that."--

What exactly is the guy supposed to day? "Yeah, I really don't want to be here but what the heck? I've got nothing else to do?" Or better yet, "I'd rather be in New York but since this league is run by retards I guess I'm stuck in Chicago."

If he wanted to play for Chicago then why didn't spend the past two months training with the bulls? Why did he stay there until he was told to leave? Doesn't sound like someone who wants to play for Chicago at all.

[Alejandro Ruiz]

What exactly is the guy supposed to day? "Yeah, I really don't want to be here but what the heck? I've got nothing else to do?" Or better yet, "I'd rather be in New York but since this league is run by retards I guess I'm stuck in Chicago."

--------------

That would be a pretty awesome thing to hear a pro say, total frankness! But then they all speak in pro athlete-ese. Filled with nothing but platitude and banality.

[Dante]

Let me get this straight. Marmol wants to sign a contract with Chicago and now he is claiming that there were lies that he wanted to sign with NY when he was with them? That's really surprising (sarcasm).

The moral of the story is: If you are unemployed and can get a paycheck from someone, that will make you happy.

[Chicho]

You metrobulls are a bunch of morons. Chicago has been better than New Jersey every single season. Every single one. You've never won anything. You have a crappy coach. No one attends your home matches. So much for the USA's "premier sports market". Hah.

[kofi_x5]

do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

[giaco]

As for my "Chicago will make the hard sell" comment, the Fire will look to make Marmol feel welcome and show him that Chicago is somewhere he wants to be. How is that conjecture? That is common sense.

------------------------
Marmol seeing that Chicago is somewhere he wants to be, and somewhere he wants to play IS common sense, as he finally understands it really is his only option at this point. Saying that it would even take a "hard sell" IS conjecture.

Oh, and asking 2 people who supply you with information (direct/substantiating/corroborating) whether you are a 'Chicago hater' is kind of silly, isn't it? Of course they're going to say 'no'. But then again, they may also say something off the record that I would not publish--due to some kind of journalistic professionalism. I mean really, conjecture--otherwise known as "I have a source, but I can't tell you" boarderlines on gossip. I know this isn't a science, this writing thing, but no citable source = no validity--unless you are also just inclined to believe that sort of thing; but how much credibility that kind or writing gets seems persepctive-based, now doesn't it. I think that's where you lose readers (that disagree).

I'm not discrediting your 10 years of experience Ives, I'm just questioning....well, I just think you write more gossip than hard news. Yeah, I'm not a fan---but like a train wreck, I can't avert my eyes. Besides, sometimes you do come up with the goods. I think you're probably one of the only writers in/for the league that gets the info you do--so kudos on that. I just hope that in 10 years times there are more/better writers than just you with such access--but I'm sure for the sake of the league, and those who love it, we can agree on that point.

Gotta do that day job now, have a good day.

[dabull]

When asked about a report that claimed he had no interest in playing for the Fire, Marmol responded, "Those are lies -- I never said that."

Is this quote a lie?? The popular explanation here is basically "What else is he supposed to say? He's in Chicago"

If that explanation is to be believed, then what about all of Marmol's statements that he didn't want to play in Chicago? Can we attribute those to "What else is he supposed to say? He's in New York" since he was training with NYRB at the time those comments were made??

[brett]

such hostility here O.o...

fact is, Marmol wanted to play with JCO, not NJ.... just so happens thats currently where JCO is at the moment... very well in the next year or so he could be with a completely different team (assuming RBNJ hold up to the pattern of old)

he's going to sign for the Fire, as Ives pointed out the fire org. will make sure he's comfortable and welcomed.... he'll play his game and the fire will have yet another quality skilled player... when his contract nears ending or ends, then he can venture out... but a quality season or two could see him moving over seas anyhow (if he impresses)...

[inkedAG]

You know what all this proves??

Chicago fans are friggin idiots!!!!

Let's move on...

[Matt]

Da Bull, you are a tool. Marmol was never quoted publicly as saying that he never wanted to go to Chicago.

And since you swear he never had a preference, let me ask you this: Why in the heck did Marmol stay with the red bulls this long, train this long, if he didn't have a preference? Why did it take the red bulls actually telling him," sorry, but we can't have you and you can't stick around anymore" before he even CONSIDERED going to Chicago? That sounds to me like somebody who never wanted to go to Chicago, ESPECIALLY when you consider that he didn't turn around and sign a deal with Chicago right away. No, Marmol went there and wants to feel it out BEFORE signing. That tells me he NEVER intended on signing there.

Deal with it you Chicago clowns, the guy never wanted to play for you and only now is considering it because he has no other choice.

[dabull]

Ives,

I do have to make this one comment about your writing. In your articles (or posts) sometimes it very difficult to separate statements based on information that you have gotten from sources or based completely on conjecture. I understand you cannot reveal your sources, but some more clarification is needed sometimes. When making comments about the Fire, qualifiers such as 'confirmed by sources within the Fire organization' would be helpful. The same goes for dealing with players and coaches as well.

In the case regarding Marmol and the Fire it seems you did not reveal that you actually contacted people within the Fire organization with knowledge of the matter until people started questioning your credibility (correct me if I missed something). Help us fans out a little bit by referencing your comments a little better so we can make our own informed decisions based on all the information at our disposal. Thanks.

[dabull]

Matt, tanks for keeping this civil and resorting to name calling. High class.

As for your question as to why Marmol stayed with NYRB as long as he did, well it was because he thought he could get a paycheck there. I never said that NYRB wasn't his first choice. I was trying to point out that he probably doesn't have any problem playing for Chicago. He just wants to play and get paid. He stayed with NYRB so long because they were actively trying to obtain his rights from the Fire. He thought he could get a paycheck from them. Once NYRB had exhausted all their options in trying to acquire him, they told him it was time to move on. He then went to Chicago so he could get a paycheck.

It was smart of NYRB to have him training with them as long as there was a possibility of them signing Marmol. It wouldn't surprise me if Marmol was probably told as such by NYRB.

You're also missing the point at how contracts are negotiated with players and MLS. The players negotiate with MLS, not the actual teams. Even if he had signed a contract with MLS while he was training with NYRB, he would have to play for Chicago. Him not signing yet should not be a surprise since the major hang-up in negotiations seems to be money, not the team he will be playing for.

[Ives]

DaBull, everything I have written on the Marmol situation has come from information I have received from sources. I don't write based on conjecture, so where have I failed to differentiate the two?

Sources have told me throughout this process that Marmol didn't want to play for Chicago, he only wanted to play for the Red Bulls. It should also be noted that Marmol only made the decision to go to Chicago after being told by the Red Bulls that they were done trying to figure out a solution to bring him in and couldn't have him around any longer.

As for this statement: "t seems you did not reveal that you actually contacted people within the Fire organization with knowledge of the matter until people started questioning your credibility" I quoted Frank Klopas extensively in my piece on Marmol heading to Chicago so exactly how was it not clear where my information was coming from regarding anything relating to Marmol going to Chicago?

There are some people who are simply going to refuse to believe some of the things I write because they don't like what is being written and will choose to hide behind the fact that I can't reveal my sources in some situations. That's fine, but to insinuate that anything I have written is fiction is overboard.

I have come to expect the irrational rantings of a select few fans who just have nothing better to do than be negative, confrontational and contrarian, but I would be lying if I said it didn't bother me that some folks who clearly have no idea what is really going on want to pretend they do simply by believing what they choose and ignoring what they don't like.

[Ives]

"Him not signing yet should not be a surprise since the major hang-up in negotiations seems to be money, not the team he will be playing for."

Da Bull, that too is incorrect. Multiple sources have told me that Marmol played hardball with his contract demands because he was trying to force the Fire to pass on him or force a trade. Marmol would have signed the league's $100K offer the day it was made if it had meant signing with the Red Bulls.

The delay in Marmol signing a deal now has to do with him wanting to see if he feels comfortable in Chicago and if he believes it is an environment where he can improve as a player.

[dabull]

Ives,

Thank-you for your clarifications. I was not necessarily accusing you of conjecture. I was trying to say that while reading your articles there are a lot of times where you make a statement but do not qualify it with 'according sources from team X close to the situation' or something along those lines. I was trying to point out that this is what leads to a lot of confusion from your critics. Without those qualifiers some of your statements can be mistaken for conjecture, especially if those statement are controversial for some fans. I feel that some of your stories on the Marmol situation would have been better recieved (at least by me) if it had been more clearly stated that you were using sources within the Fire organization, and also sources close to Marmol.

"Da Bull, that too is incorrect. Multiple sources have told me that Marmol played hardball with his contract demands because he was trying to force the Fire to pass on him or force a trade. Marmol would have signed the league's $100K offer the day it was made if it had meant signing with the Red Bulls.

The delay in Marmol signing a deal now has to do with him wanting to see if he feels comfortable in Chicago and if he believes it is an environment where he can improve as a player."

Thank-you for that information. That information would have made the situation a little clearer if it was used in the above story.

[Ives]

Fair enough Da Bull, you make some very valid points. I appreciate your feedback.

[adam]

red bulls = trophy case empty

[Homey Boehme]

dabull - If you need to be told in every sentence that one of the the most respected soccer journalists in this country corroberated his story with "sources from team x close to the situation" then you have no business reading this site. Get over yourself, or find a new blog to troll.

[moddy]

I don't believe that ALL of your sources in Chicago with the exception of Klopas refuse to be cited publicly. Until you can attribute your information to an actual source, we're going to question what you write. I'd question ANY journalist that can't back up his statements (no I didn't say conjecture, so calm down) with actual references. You remind me of Templeton on the last season of The Wire for some reason, guy.

Also, I'm not sure the Jersey fans understand this, but Marmol was training with the Fire LONG before he ever came to RedBulls. I'm sure it's been mentioned in passing, but honestly the reason he was here in the first place, and also the reason the Fire had the claim on him before Jersey did, was because he had already been in Chicago's camp last year. Trying to say he didn't or doesn't want to play in Chicago is one of those half-truths--he DID want to play here LAST YEAR, but that was when JCO was OUR coach.It logically follows that his loyalty is to your coach and has nothing to do with the actual clubs involved. I don't delude myself and try to claim he wanted to play for Chicago over Jersey--the majority of Fire fans all understand that he wanted to play for you guys.

The thing that upset a lot of us was the way the Jersey fans aired their "entitlement" issues. Look back to your poster on the last page--"We should get what we want cause we're special and blah blah blah..." (paraphrased), THAT is what we hate about your club. We hate your coach for basically the same reason--he flaunts the rules and assuming he could pull a player that already had a claim on him shows his arrogance. You got the coach your fanbase deserves.

p.s. We're thinking of suing your club for the "New York Red Bulls" claim--did Jersey get annexed and no one told us? Keep it real, k?

[Steve T]

Moddy, how about you and DaBull go crawl back into whatever hole in Chicago you came out of?

If you don't want to believe what's written here then get the hell out of here. I'm sure there are great soccer sites out of Chicago you can go to (Oh wait, not really). Just because you aren't used to a writer who actually has sources that reveal stuff doesn't mean Ives' is lying. Good writers have plenty of sources to back things up and if he were making things up don't you think people would stop talking to him by now?

I read two people, Ives and Goff, and a lot of what they deliver is news from unnamed sources. If the choice is between getting my news from those sources or getting no news then I'm going with the unnamed sources.

Now go back to Chicago and STFU

[moddy]

Man you Jersey cats crack me up--Internetz tough guyz all of ya. If you actually bothered to read what I wrote, you'd see that I made the point that any GOOD writer can cite sources and doesn't rely on "unnamed" sources for the majority of his statements. If these statements can't be attributed, that tells me either a:they can't be taken seriously, or b: they were off the record, in which case they shouldn't have been printed at all.

By the way I'm not his fan but Luis Arroyave is a good writer in Chicago. He has the same problem as Ives--lots of rumors, no sources. In addition, they both are wrong more than can be linked to just "unnamed sources" providing wrong information.

As for telling me to go somewhere else and to "STFU", last time I checked free debate and conversation were some of the good points of being in America.

Honest debate is one thing, senseless name calling is another. Since this is your preferred method of communication, you sir are a cad and a heel. Good day to you.

[Steve T]

Moddy, can you jump off a building?

Seriously though, how much sports news do you read? If you read much at all you would know that most information in sports stories comes from sources who aren't named. I read all the top sports writers in the country in other sports, and they're always citing unnamed sources. That's the business. Would it be nice if they could reveal names? Sure, but as long as the information gets to me I could give a crap. I'm also sure that team sources, whether players, coaches or PR people, don't want their names out there because they don't want to be known for leaking stuff, or don't want other writers mad at them for leaking stuff.

Based on your stupid criteria I suppose the likes of Peter Gammons, Chris Mortenson, Ric Bucher, Michael Smith and Sal Paolantonio are all crap journalists since they're constantly giving us news from unnamed sources. RIGHT.

I'm just a sports fan and a soccer fan though and since you're the one pretending to be a real journalist I will leave the expert opinions on journalism to you.

[Dan]

Im assuming this is a coincidence, but it would be funny if marmol signs with Chicago, because the Chicago Cubs have a relief Pitcher named Carlos Marmol...i dont know if its a common name, but its pretty funny i think if they were both in chicago

[Voice of reason]

I thought I'd throw my two cents in here. To start off, I must say that I am a Fire fan. Every Day, Every Time, No Exceptions, Without Fail. However I do have to comment that as much as I am happy that we may potentially sign Lider, it is a bit unfair to both him and RBNY that the discovery claim rule is written as it is. It sounds as though he is a top notch player who deserves to be playing and getting paid, wherever he plays!

And to play devil's advocate, would anyone compare this to Chelsea FC, in which they buy all the quality players so other teams cannot?

At the end of the day, though, I am happy that we will potentially sign a great defender. It is unfortunate that he will not get to play with the coach he prefers to play with, but such is life. And unlike the Wilman conde issue, Lider didn't sign a contract with CFFC yet.

...just my two cents.

>>>P.S. Ives: do you have any idea when authentic jerseys with authentic numbering will be available? I can't seem to get an answe from anybody in chicago! lol