Chicago Fire vs. NY Red Bulls: The feud, the details and the owner who can't let go

It was one of the most interesting stories of the MLS off-season. Juan Carlos Osorio's abrupt departure from the Chicago Fire to the New York Red Bulls and the subsequent feud that followed. It is a feud taken up by both team's fans and waged by the teams, well at least one team.

You see, Chicago hasn't let it go. More to the point, the Fire's new owner, Andrew Hauptman, hasn't let it go. Ever since Osorio said thanks, but no thanks to staying with the Fire, Hauptman has labled the Red Bulls, and Osorio specifically, as Public Enemy No. 1 in Chicago. According to multiple sources in MLS, Hauptman has told his team officials that the Fire will not do business of any kind with the Red Bulls.

While this shouldn't come as that much of a surprise, Hauptman's recent public declarations about his contempt for Osorio's departure have kicked up some embers on a flame that looked like it might fade. However, in his attempt to discredit Osorio and portray him as a villain to a Fire fanbase that already thinks Osorio is the devil, Hauptman has opened the door to providing a clearer, and more accurate description of the circumstances surrounding Osorio departure from Chicago.

In multiple profiles on Hauptman written in Chicago newspapers recently, the Fire owner made reference to a clause in Osorio's contract with the Fire that would have allowed Osorio to leave his job. In neither case did Hauptman bother to point out that the fact that Osorio did not exercise that option, and in fact, helped the Fire secure a compensation package that was higher than any paid for a departing coach in the history of MLS.

Yes, you read that right. Osorio's contract with the Fire included a clause that would have allowed him to resign, and after 30 days, he would have been free to take a position with any other team in the world, MLS or otherwise. The poorly-constructed contract, which came courtesy of Chicago's previous owners AEG, left the door open for Osorio to walk away.

After initially being denied permission to speak with the Red Bulls about the job vacated by former coach Bruce Arena, Osorio used the escape clause as a bargaining tool. What started as a mild interest in the Red Bulls position turned into a strong desire to leave Chicago as Hauptman's handling of the situation left Osorio eager to leave the club. With the escape clause as the ideal bargaining chip, Osorio made it clear to Chicago. Either the Fire let him interview with the Red Bulls and let the Red Bulls pay compensation if they hired him, or he would walk away and Chicago would receive nothing upon him being hired by the Red Bulls.

The Fire relented and eventually negotiated a considerable compensation package with the Red Bulls that included cash (which some sources put at approximately $500,000), a major allocation ($300,000) and the Red Bulls first-round draft pick. A hefty price and a price that would not have been paid if Osorio had not felt a sense of obligation to see Chicago compensated.

Chicago accepted that compensation from the Red Bulls, but that didn't stop the Fire, and specifically Hauptman, from pressing the league to investigate the Red Bulls for tampering. According to sources, MLS proceeded with an investigation, interviewing several of the parties involved in Osorio's move to the Red Bulls. The league never did penalize the Red Bulls for the alledged tampering.

Perhaps the most ironic aspect of Chicago's bitterness regarding Osorio's departure is the fact that the circumstances surrounding the Fire's courtship of Osorio from Colombian club Millonarios were just as, if not more, questionable than Osorio's departure to the Red Bull. According to sources, Fire president John Guppy traveled to Colombia to meet with Osorio and watch his training sessions without ever speaking to anybody at Millonarios (and also spoke to Osorio about the Fire head coaching job before he had even fired Dave Sarachan). The Fire never asked for permission to speak to Osorio while he was still Millonarios coach nor did Chicago offer any compensation when Osorio was let out of his contract by Millonarios.

Not exactly the actions of a club that should be crying foul about tampering now, are they? If anything, some would call Osorio's subsequent departure from the Fire to the Red Bulls a touch of karma. I know Millonarios fans would.

So what now? There is no what now, not when it comes to the Fire and Red Bulls. There is merely contempt and anymosity and while there is nothing wrong with a good old soccer feud, there is just something wrong about a feud not born out of on-field battles, but off-field disputes.

Comments

[sal]

Oh the irony!

I'll spell it out for you...

"Ives: The reporter who can't let go"

[oniosack]

How much you want to bet Fire fans come in here and try and discredit you and act like brats.

They should be ashamed of their organization not defending it. Putting petty egos over the best interests of their club.

To any Fire fan responding, go f**k yourself i won't read it.

[Allan]

This makes Osorio look opportunistic.

[Ben]

front office mouthpiece
Clap Clap.. clap clap clap

[suicidallawyer]

I don't root for either team, so I'm impatial. But, it sounds like Osorio is quite the gentleman and that the Fire don't understand that ruthless modern business practices work both ways.

Legend has it that the original Chicago Fire was started by Mrs. O'Leary's cow. I guess it's only fair that the new Chicago Fire got extinguished by a pair of red Bulls!!!

Go AjaX!

[Chris]

Ives, why no mention of Conde and Marmol wanting to play in NY and Chicago acting like little girls regarding that situation?

[Pat]

good piece, one point, its unfair to insinuate hauptman with hypocrisy for possibly tampering with osorio's contract at millionarios then turning around and looking at the red bulls for the same thing. aeg would be the culprit w/ millionarios not hauptman.

[eshad15]

A touch of bias Ives? Obviously both sides are going to paint themselves out to be in the right, but in all reality this goes much deeper than just Osorio going to the Red Bulls. Bob Bradley should come to mind as should the ongoing conflict with Conde. The fact is that Fire fans in general are pissed off that the Red Bulls are continually delving into the Fire organization. The most important thing about this entire story is that the Fire now have an owner who cares just as much as Section 8 does and is not going to put up with the bs that AEG did.

[JSquaredNY]

Wow, pretty pathetic Chicago...

[Tom in Newark]

You know that just adds something to the ridiculousness of Fire fans' self righteous behavior throughout this whole saga. In the professional soccer world, coaches and player leave all the time for rival clubs. It is one thing to boo the departed, yet another to raise the dispute to the level of a Hatfields and McCoys feud, especially coming from owner & management.

[Fire Ron Guenther]

Show us your silverware, Red Bull fans.

[Tom in Newark]

You know, Fire fans shouldn't invoke AEG in one post and then completely forget about it in the next. You can't have it both ways. John Guppy was then and still is with the Fire. His role in the whole fiasco deserves a closer look. His lack of professionalism set this up.

[Al17]

As a Fire fan it's tiring to read the cheap shots that a few have been so quick to post. Fire fans were not made aware of this clause in Osorio's contract 'til now so for many of us this now falls under "Who was the dumbass to allow him the 30 day out clause in his contract?" AEG and Guppy or primarily AEG? In my mind if you don't want to be here, I say use the door, so I could care less about the fact he left however, this puts the whole issue on a different level. In other words, someone from the Fire lied to us Fire fans. That's who I'm pissed at.

[eshad15]

I love how you paint Osorio out to be an upright guy who was doing a great thing for the Fire by getting them some compensation. When in reality he was still copping out of a 3 year contract, it seems to me that he knew he was screwing over the Fire organization by leaving so he felt bad and tried to make up for it somewhat.

[kpugs]

Waaaaaaahhhhh!

My coach doesn't want to be here!

Waaaaaaaaaaah!

We got a ridiculous and unfair compensation package!

Waaaaaaaaaaah!

The referee gave us that Eastern Conference win!

Waaaaaaaaaaah!

Woah...sorry guys, my buddy is a Fire fan and he hijacked the keyboard. Funny how all they do is cry, cry, cry. You got an absurd compensation for him, and HE DIDN'T WANT TO STAY IN CHICAGO. Stop crying about it, he would have left no matter what. Jeebus.

[eshad15]

I think the fact that John Guppy is still with the Fire is a moot point to most Fire fans considering they have been calling for him to be fired for a long time.

[Javier]

how did he "cop out?" it was a clause in the contract.

face it people, the Fire and their fans are going to refuse to ignore the facts and act like children...worth a shot by Ives to point things out objectively, but naturally, there are going to be close-minded people out there...sad.

[Matt]

Nice scoop Ives. But I suspect you'll probably just get a lot of bitter Fire fans calling you a homer. The truth hurts.

[Mighty]

Good lvoe it!!!! Now Give us Conde and leave marmol alone... and lets have el Classico joven. Fire Vs. Red Bulls

[Jay-Z]

Ives...

Source?

Oh...right...

[dabull]

Ives,

Part of the animosity on the part of Fire fans toward Osorio was that he left the team after less than year for what many MLS fans consider a lesser team. If he went to a European team, most fans would be saying good luck. Also, one of his main excuses for leaving was that his wife did not like it in Chicago because of the 'small Columbian population. That is a surprising statement to make coming from a husband who has dragged his wife from England to Columbia to Chicago and now to New Jersey. If he had truely cared about his wife, he might have actually done a little research on the Columbian community in Chicago and discussed it with his wife. Seems a little wierd to most fans. The Chicago Fire have a history of "Tradtion, Honor, Passion" that fans take very seriously. In abruptly leaving Chicago after less than one season and failing to give a logical explanation, it is very clear to most Fire fans that Osorio has very little respect to the "Tradition, Honor, Passion" of the Chicago Fire.

Fans are also very displeased over the Conde situation as well. If Osorio and Conde had to be together that badly, Osorio should have stayed in Chicago. Conde is going to have problems in advancing his career if he continues to refuse to play for any other coach besides Osorio.

To a much lesser extent there is the Lider Marmol situation. Osorio brought Marmol to the attention of the Chicago Fire FO when he was still the coach. Due to some issues they couldn't sign him at the end of last season. They still wanted to sign him, so they put a discovery claim on him after Osorio had left and apparently just before NYRB did. Everything the Fire did was within the rules, and the FO has said they intend to sign him. Just tell NYRB thanks for keeping him in shape for us.

Ives, if you want things to die, maybe you shouldn't be writing articles about them.

[adam]

look at the big picture in terms of where the league is going/growing. the sport is like this EVERYWHERE else in the world. teams are always looking at someone else's players or staff while trying to make their team better (as long as they play within the rules). its feuds like this that actually push the old "making-rules-as-we-go" and "crossing-bridges-when-we-get-there" MLS to start taking a more professional approach from top to bottom.

ives brings up a good point about 'weak' contracts - i promise you this won't happen again. JCO did nothing wrong as per his written contract. sure its a nice little pissing match between chicago and ny that will never have a clear winner, but it now pushes all parts of MLS to up their game a bit.

[EDB]

I think it was more like Osorio , wanted to interview and wasnt sure he would get the job. Otherwise when the fire refused he could have resigned right then. Instead he negotiated the right to interview.

Also, like mentioned above you can't blame the owner when AEG where the owners when Guppy went to columbia.

In the End I'm glad the owner is pissed, the new info on the contract is going to make fire fans hate Guppy more. And Conde should be playing this weekend.

[guillermo]

My sources tell me Hauptman's contempt for Osorio comes from conversations with JCO that occurred after Hauptman took over from AEG. Osorio let it be known to the new owner that he was committed to the Fire organization. Hauptman took it personally when JCO decided to go back on his word. The contract clause not withstanding, Hauptman expected his coach live up to his commitment for more than 16 weeks.

What I don't quite get is, if the clause was cut and dried as an out clause why didn't NYRB just wait the 30 days and hire JCO. Are they stupid enough to give the Fire a compensation package when they didn't have to?

The entire scenario in which the Fire acquired Osorio tells me one thing. That is that BOTH John Guppy AND Osorio are weasles.

[Greg]

Happy now Chicago fans? You're FO is in the WRONG and Osorio didn;t have to get you ANYTHING as compensation. He did it anyway. THESE ARE FACTS. YOU HAVE NO CASE.

Your front office lied to you, and Hauptman is a nutter.

[Mighty]

I smell Fire Fans..... Red Bulls Baby!!!

[EDB]

Ives,

If the Fire let Osorio interview, and then Osorio resigns and signs 30 days later don't you think that would have caused a much greater problem in the MLS and that's the reason the NYRB decided to give compensation?

[Paul]

Without even trying to understand the arguments on either side, I must say that anything that ratchets up a rivalry is good for MLS.

[dabull]

Well, if Osorio could have left for nothing, doesn't it make the Fire FO look GOOD for basically getting a couple draft picks and $800,000 from the Red Bulls??

Looking at it from a different angle, doesn't it make the Red Bulls FO look BAD if they gave up $800,000 and a couple drafts to get a coach they could have gotten for NOTHING??

[THE Nick]

After reading everything from both sides and taking a look at this situation, it's nice knowing that Osorio is a stand up guy...and that Red Bull are in the clear, and it's the Fire FO and fans who are making asses of themselves. . . pathetic...

[frank]

i'm not a fan of either team, quakes fan here.so aeg screwing sh!t up again? no that never happens with them! the worst part in all this is the fact that 2 very good players are in the middle of all this crap. i say just play , and move on , everyone.

[Bob S]

Ives supporting the Red Bulls, well I'll be! I also remember you mentioning that Osorio never looked at MLS as a stepping stone to something bigger which was a complete lie. Love the site but hot damn I could do without the pandering.

[RedLine55]

Yup, this article will DEFINITELY help the embers die down... JCO might be opportunistic, but he's got nothin' on Ives!

[Connor]

Guillermo...New York did not wait the 30 days and hire JCO because JCO was actually decent and got Chicago more than they deserved. He decided not to opt out and rather have New York basically buy him from Chicago when they did not need to based off of the contract.

New York fans should probably be angrier at Osorio than Chicago fans after this. We gave up a major allocation for no reason?

Seriously Chicago is being over dramatic and ridiculous. They have a coach and they have a good team this year. Marmol does not want to play for them and to keep him from playing soccer is not hurting the Red Bulls as much as it is hurting the player. He wants to sign a contract here and play in New York but Hauptman is unwilling to trade the discovery filing and let New York get Marmol.

Marmol wont get to play BECAUSE of Chicago.

[anotherbodymurdered]

sal says it all in the first comment. You get good adsense $ from these flamewars, Ives?

[David Martinez]

Ives is purty damn impartial.

Didnt he say he doesnt even own an MLS jersey?

:P

Look, if this is the situation, it is simply business.

I think the Bulls should sign Innes, forget Marmol, and leave this mess behind us. Like any good businesss man, Hauptman will realize that cutting off your nose to spite your face (not trading with the bulls or withholding trades in fear of red bulls receiving a Fire player) is not a good business strategy.

I cant talk though. I am as biased as they come over this situation.

[EDB]

Connor,

Marmol actually won't be able to play because he's asking for more money then MLS will pay him. Also, the Fire are with in thier rights, NYRB or his agent should have let him know about it prior to him going to train with them

[mdh]

Odienos mas

[frank]

and Sal- the poster who can't stop reading and posting.

[Alejandro Ruiz]

You think Steinbrenner would put up with this crap without holding a grudge? Didn't think so.
http://tinyurl.com/48qy4l

[ag nigrin]

Most of the Chica fans posting here are a bunch of whiners... whaaaaaaa, whaaaaaa and whaaaaa like kpugs writes... Osorio always wanted to come back to NYC where he has family and friends...when the new owner took over Osorio smelled a rat (when he initially was not granted an interview for the recently vacated RB job) and got the hell out... You can't blame him for wanting to leave... now they are shafting Conde and Marmol... sounds like JPO made the right move...

[dabull]

"Marmol wont get to play BECAUSE of Chicago."

Reality check here, if Marmol won't get to play because of MARMOL! If MLS offers him a contract to play and he doesn't sign it, that's HIS fault. I'm not defended MLS complicated rules, they are what they are so we all have to deal with it.

I just think its amusing to think about what NYRB fans would be saying if the roles were reversed. Everybody can get up on their high horse and say the other is an asshole, but you would be saying the exact same things if Chicago did it to you.

[frank]

jokerman(great name?!) ives didn't even name the players in the article. the fans did. your genius of an owner is the one screwing the players. read before talking crap.

[Matt]

Invasion of the BigSoccer morons. Batten down the hatches!

[irishapple21]

Fire fans are kind of like fundamentalists. They believe what they believe with no evidence to support them and will never ever bow to reason. It is useless to converse with them.

[Greg]

I find it funny that all unbiased parties have sided with RBNY and JCO so far. Tells you something abut those delusional half-wits in the midwest.

[guillermo]

Connor,

JCO is definetly not in the clear here. He decided he wanted to pursue the NYRB job after the Red Bulls floated the idea of hiring a coach who was under contract to another team. The compensation package was due to no great sense of dignity from Osorio. When he decided he wanted to go to NY and hid behind his wife and family as an excuse he did not know for sure that he was going to get the NY job.

If you recall, before the compensation package or trade was announced, JCO had yet to come to an agreement with NYRB. The Fire front office hastily announced he was leaving before the deal with NY was done. NYRB should be pissed at their front office for not waiting the 30 days, if indeed that time frame is accurate.

There really is no right and wrong in the whole thing. Fire fans will be blame JCO and NYRB while the NY side will paint the picture through red bull colored glasses. The fact is that BOTH Guppy and JCO acted less than professionally, and now the new owner is not happy about it understandably.

[EDB]

I whish people would stop saying the players are getting screwed.

1 has a contract and is getting paid. the other if they want to play in the MLs needs to abide by the rules of MLS. If he wants he can go ply his trade in other leagues.

[Connor]

EDB-

Of course Chicago is within their rights to not take Marmol if they think he is getting a salary that is too high. But MLS is low-balling Marmol because Chicago does not want to pay him the amount the Red Bulls can. From my understanding, there have been reports that New York was willing to compensate Chicago for Marmol and Chicago said no. Teams have done deals like that in the past. I believe Kenny Cooper was supposed to go to KC but Dallas gave them something and got Cooper.

If Marmol clearly does not want to play for Chicago...which is clear because he does not train with them, then Chicago should be reasonable and take some draft picks or something and let us sign him.

Yes Chicago is within their rights in respect to the situation, but that does not mean that they are not being pricks about it to both Marmol and the Red Bulls.

[dabull]

Fire fans were actually over this for the most part. I haven't heard too much JCO bashing in a while. Ives took two lines out of an article and made a huge leap basically saying all Chicago fans wake-up every morning cursing Osorio and should get over it. Ives, we are over it. I suggest you do the same. Great piece of journalism, Ives.

Also, Guppy being a dumbass and screwing things up?? We've know that for years! Great scoop there Ives, surprised you couldn't pick that up when he worked for the Metrostars.

[Adam]

Yellow journalism is a pejorative reference to journalism that features scandal-mongering, sensationalism, or other unethical or unprofessional practices by news media organizations or journalists. It has been loosely defined as "not quite libel".

[Beto]

Screw Osorio and the Red Bulls.

Why the hell are the Fire going to let NY get that much better with these 2 players?

Just to make nice with the RedBulls and Osorio?

Lets make our live that much harder by sending NY 2 great players, that's genius. There's nothing NY could compensate with to make up for it. Screw em I can't wait til the RedBulls come to town.

[Matt]

dabull, I think you're missing the point. There is a new twist here - about Osorio's 30-day get out clause - that casts the story in a somewhat different light. It's not just a rehash of old news.

[adam]

im not sure you can fault chicago owner here for being 'childish' by flat out saying that he wont do business with a rival. how is this any different than chelsea buying players with no intention of playing them just so that rivals (man u/arsenal) cant buy them? it happens

one can also argue that by keeping these players and benching them or keeping them while they're unhappy might be a selfish move. look at the alternative: lets just say that they allow one or both of these players to go to NY (for whatever compensation) and these two teams end up playing in the playoffs and NY wins. at that point it looks like keeping them and benching them was the right move.

as i mentioned earlier - nobody will win this pissing match....

[brett]

Ives- i think you did this to spark conversation.... this post truely is pointless, as its bringing to the table an arguement we've all heard a million times

can you honestly blame the fans for going irate when a coach (who is suppose to bring our team to the next level) bails on them?? on top of that try to bring over players either in contract or legally "discovered" by the fire?? this is farce...

personally im with the other guy who posted it... if you dont want to play for the Fire, then theres the door... i truely was hoping the Fire wouldve traded Conde for Richards... yes theres a loss in skill, but more cap wouldve been available and we wouldve filled in a very impt RM role (rolfe couldve pushed up top).... Marmol has stated that he will play for either team, and the fire are bent on obtaining him.... the 135k wouldnt have been out of our price range by any means...

Overall, can anyone blame the fire fans for getting up in arms when this topic comes up?? its like pouring gas onto a fire and not expecting an explosion....

[EDB]

Connor,

you can not look at it as Osorio was with in his rights through one view , and then say Chicago is being pricks through another. Osorio was with in his rights , was smart and got to NY where he wanted to be , but it was easliy a prick thing to do given the short time he was with the club. Much like Chicago are being pricks about Marmol.

[Steve]

'From my understanding, there have been reports that New York was willing to compensate Chicago for Marmol and Chicago said no.'

Connor do you work in the MLS offices? Do you have info, that noones else does? I can make things up too it doesn't make them true.

If we're being pricks we're being pricks. New York had nothing on their roster that they could offer for Conde, and I'm pretty sure you're not offering us any draft choices. Or si that more of your 'inside info.'?

[Alejandro Ruiz]

"But MLS is low-balling Marmol because Chicago does not want to pay him the amount the Red Bulls can."

Source? Or is this just conjecture?

Even...if this is true. Why should the Fire do the NYRB any favors? To be nice? Because the NYRB really, really need the players and the transfer deadline is in 5 days? Pfft!

Anyway, this is Marmol not the second coming of Puska. I don't think it's going to make or break either team's season.

[Matt]

@brett

How is the post pointless? Far from it. Ives provided some valuable new information about the Osorio situation. It may put your FO in an unflattering light (and the RBNY FO as well) it's not pointless.

[Connor]

True, but the Chicago got compensation from Osorio. It is not like he left them without getting them a shitload of cash, an major allocation and a first round draft pick. I mean he was in his rights but he certainly did not try and damage the fire by leaving, he actually probably helped them. Those allocations are a big deal and I am actually kind of mad that we dont have it anymore especially if he could have just left.

My point is that teams do business in sports, but it seems that especially with discovery claims, teams keep pissing New York off. I remember when the team tried to sign Matt Jansen, but Columbus had signed a discovery for him but could not sign him anyway. So in order to surrender his rights they wanted us to give them Eddie Gaven or some crazy amount of draft picks in return for this guys signature (a guy they could not even sign).

I know teams also do not want to help the competition and I can understand not wanting to trade Conde (IMO the best defender in the league). We would all like to have him but that will not have him and we moved on. The Marmol situation is different because New York is apparently willing to provide offers to Chicago, but by all accounts Hauptman has just said that Chicago will not deal with New York.

It seems like New York keeps trying to provide compensation and actually give the Fire value for the people they want, and Hauptman is just being the big cry baby in this instance and refuses to do any business with New York.

Sports teams do business and because of the Fire's owner and apparent temper, it seems as though New York and Chicago will not do business even if it makes sense for both teams. And even though New York more than compensated for the coach that they took.

[Giuseppe]

seriously? We're the one's not willing to let it go? Fire fans are definitely not the embittered parties here. Yeah it sucks, most of us our over it. Hauptman doesn't want to deal with the RB because he feels like they screwed him? Too bad, deal with it. It's business. If I go to buy myself a big slice of NY Pizza and it tastes greasy and studid, I don't go buy more of it....and you guys are hurting the Marmol situation more than anyone, sure we'll put Marmol first in line, if he won't accept a contract he doesn't get to play. RBNY on the other hand our like a kid walking through a toystore with their new favorite toy even though mommy already told them they couldn't have it. But JCO's going to clutch onto it until he gets forced to leave no matter how bad he wants it. Aw, now I am actually crying, it's really just so damn precious....

[martha c]

Right, JCO walked out on two contracts but the Fire are the bad guys!!!

Hes a nice guy because he LET the Fire get SOME compensation before he QUIT on them.

Who invited Guppy to the training site and allowed him access to practices ?

Must have been Hauptman...

Glad you got OSORIOS wife's position on the matter cause it was her decision and she wears the pants in that family.

Osorio is a snake and now he NJ Red Metros's snake.

Just hurry up and pack Marmols bags before you get the Fires property injured.

[michael]

This discussion will get us nowhere--for either side. Stop writing about it already.

[inkedAG]

I love what irishapple21 said.

Aside from "Duh, duh-duh and DUH" all Fire fans can say is "JCO TRAITOR" "RBNY POACHERS!" "Duh, duh-duh and duh."

You guys got close to a mil in compensation!! Hush!

[Dante]

Fire fans should be angry at Guppy for all of this. The guy has lied to them numerous times, but they still support him and claim he is a nice guy. Anyone who does business like this isn't a nice guy. Also, don't you think Guppy saw the contract being given to Osorio by AEG and he STILL didn't say anything about that clause to take it out.

The Fire fans are too busy making useless noise and sounding like children instead of listening to the facts.

Also, if you read a recent article, it looks like Hauptman isn't entirely happy with Guppy either.

[Beto]

I'm guessing Ive's posts these pro Bull stories every once in a while to get in the good graces of RBNY and get a little more access. Maybe he's pining for a scoop on the replacement for de grandpre.

[inkedAG]

One more thing:

Great work Ives!!! Keep giving us the scoops!

[Alejandro Ruiz]

WHOAH!
Who said Fire fans support Guppy?

[joe k]

bradley?

didn't he move from fire to new york when AEG owned both?

[Mark]

Conde and Marmol are owned by Chicago, they can do what they want with them. Forgetting the Osorio saga, would you willingly signficiantly strengthen one of your conference rivals?

[sal]

Gotta love how NY fans paint Fire fans as the whiners in this situation. We are over Osorio, we have Conde and will continue having him for the the rest of his contract and the 2 years after that if we want, and we also have the rights to Marmol if he ever decides to sign with MLS' offer.

We are in the drivers seat looking back at you guys in the rearview. About as far from "whining" and "crybaby" as it gets. You guys on the other hand...

[mikeK]

Ives-

What of the Marmol dibacle?

[Alejandro Ruiz]

Anyway, great troll by Ives.
I'm sure this will draw a few hundred or more pageviews.

[giuseppe]

alejandro! don't be too loud about how we feel about Guppy, if we're lucky they might just take him off our hands for us

[Matt]

Fantastic post Ives and don't listen to the rest of the people telling you not to write about it. Judging from the reaction in the comments, you can see that this is a topic that stirs up a lot of passion on both sides and that's exactly what MLS needs.

[Steve]

None of us are willing to let go. That's what makes us fans, if we were rational it wouldn't make a difference.

It would be as simple as NY got their coach, the coach got his city, and Chicago got the player.

More importantly how do I get a company to hire me to do nothing to keep me away from another company?

[Beto]

I'd rethink Conde or Marmol if the RedBulls had to take Guppy with them and had to put him an a decision making role for the team.

[nate]

Is this a repuatable journalistic website or a fanboy blog?

[Topher]

I'm an impartial fan (DC) and I have to say the Chicago organization looks ridiculous. Give it up. Look what you walk away with, and Hamlett deserved a shot anyways. I don't see Hamlett as a drop of from Osorio at all. You might say Osorio has a better ability to bring in talent from South American, but he has only brought in one player. But I have to say I agree with not letting Conde go. All a player would need to do is whine and complain to change teams. No player would value their contract. That would be a dangerous decision for the league.

[Topher]

I'm an impartial fan (DC) and I have to say the Chicago organization looks ridiculous. Give it up. Look what you walk away with, and Hamlett deserved a shot anyways. I don't see Hamlett as a drop of from Osorio at all. You might say Osorio has a better ability to bring in talent from South American, but he has only brought in one player. But I have to say I agree with not letting Conde go. All a player would need to do is whine and complain to change teams. No player would value their contract. That would be dangerous.

[blah]

As a DC United fan, this saga is fun to watch.

[kahlva]

Anybody else roll their eyes at all this a little?

So the Chicago coach left and went to New York - evidently acting much cooler than most of you thought before. I understand feeling bad and a little bitter, but this incensed? It's not like he ran off with your wife or anything.

Also, Conde is acting childish and so is Hauptman. If Marmol thinks the MLS salary is too low (the salaries are usually too low, welcome to the MLS), then he should play somewhere else.

I just hope for quality soccer on the field...

[kahlva]

Anybody else roll their eyes at all this a little?

So the Chicago coach left and went to New York - evidently acting much cooler than most of you thought before. I understand feeling bad and a little bitter, but this incensed? It's not like he ran off with your wife or anything.

Also, Conde is acting childish and so is Hauptman. If Marmol thinks the MLS salary is too low (the salaries are usually too low, welcome to the MLS), then he should play somewhere else.

I just hope for quality soccer on the field...

[El Rey]

I. Guppy and AEG screwed up when they came up with that freaked up contract. I think we should thank out lucky starts that we got such a sweet deal for Judas Osorio. Our FO is stupid for approving the contract (Fire Guppy) the RBNY FO is Stupid for shelling out the $ and picks (already fired their moron).
II. Not fair to blame our new owner for tampering with Millonarios contract since he was not here. Again FIRE GUPPY
III. The league is low balling Marmol not the FIRE. The Fire has enough room to pay him the $135k he wants. You can’t blame the Fire for what the league does.
IV. Conde signed with the FIRE and regardless of what anyone says the FIRE want to keep him because he is a good player. Same reason why the REVS kept T-shirt. He makes our team better so we want to keep him. He signed a contract (thank good Guppy didn’t have a release clause in it – FIRE GUPPY) so that is that. Would NYRB be willing to let Angel or Jozy leave just because they all of a sudden want to play for DC. Probably not
V. The FIRE put a claim in on Marmol after his trial with the team last year. The LEAGUE could not come to an agreement with him so he did not sign. The fire thought enough of him to put in a discovery claim. I think it very unlikely that they put that claim in thinking that 4 months later they would be able to screw the red cows.
VI. I remember Ives saying that he is not a Red Bulls fan so I believe is unbiased, but I think he got the Red Bulls side but did not speak to anyone at the FIRE FO. Am I correct Ives?
VII. As a fan I love this stuff. I agree the rivalry should have come from on filed activity. But this sudden hatred between our two team will insure three great games come game time
VIII. And thank you NY for making sure that Lider is fit healthy and ready to play. The only thing that would make this better is if he and Conde score a goal against your team and Osorio leaves half way through the season because his wife decides she like the weather in DC better.

[El rey]

I. Guppy and AEG screwed up when they came up with that freaked up contract. I think we should thank out lucky starts that we got such a sweet deal for Judas Osorio. Our FO is stupid for approving the contract (Fire Guppy) the RBNY FO is Stupid for shelling out the $ and picks (already fired their moron).
II. Not fair to blame our new owner for tampering with Millonarios contract since he was not here. Again FIRE GUPPY
III. The league is low balling Marmol not the FIRE. The Fire has enough room to pay him the $135k he wants. You can’t blame the Fire for what the league does.
IV. Conde signed with the FIRE and regardless of what anyone says the FIRE want to keep him because he is a good player. Same reason why the REVS kept T-shirt. He makes our team better so we want to keep him. He signed a contract (thank good Guppy didn’t have a release clause in it – FIRE GUPPY) so that is that. Would NYRB be willing to let Angel or Jozy leave just because they all of a sudden want to play for DC. Probably not
V. The FIRE put a claim in on Marmol after his trial with the team last year. The LEAGUE could not come to an agreement with him so he did not sign. The fire thought enough of him to put in a discovery claim. I think it very unlikely that they put that claim in thinking that 4 months later they would be able to screw the red cows.
VI. I remember Ives saying that he is not a Red Bulls fan so I believe is unbiased, but I think he got the Red Bulls side but did not speak to anyone at the FIRE FO. Am I correct Ives?
VII. As a fan I love this stuff. I agree the rivalry should have come from on filed activity. But this sudden hatred between our two team will insure three great games come game time
VIII. And thank you NY for making sure that Lider is fit healthy and ready to play. The only thing that would make this better is if he and Conde score a goal against your team and Osorio leaves half way through the season because his wife decides she like the weather in DC better.

[Modibo]

I can't wait until JCO is persona non grata in NYC in three, six, nine, however many months. Will it be because:

a) RBNY fails to make a mark in '08?
b) he fails to bring in any of his rumored foreign talent?
c) he brings in foreign talent and it doesn't work out (see "a" above)?
d) he turns his back on NY to go somewhere else?
e) all of the above?

Who knows? Tune in this season for answers to these and more persistent questions!

[Steve]

Easy on Ives.

Every actor in this play has a little villain in them (NYRB mgmt, Osorio, Guppy, Conde, Hauptman) depending on each of our perspectives.

Throwing an article with a new angle to it is fine by me. Its not his fault if we all want to rehash the same arguments.

[Mikemike]

With Marmol,
I think the issue is that he is in danger of not even playing in MLS, never the less for NY. Chicago is kind of doing the psycho ex girlfriend "if I can't have him then no can" deal.

That is damaging for the league, and the MLS honchos must intervene. If this guy is good, he should be playing in OUR league.

More than anything, this situation with Chicago/NY is making me realize that MLS is not ready to do away with single entity.

-Mike

[kco]

Popcorn: $4

Drink: $3.50

Waiting for the Climax: Priceless

[Dominghosa]

I'm partial. But ummmm....so WHAT A COMEBACK BY BAYERN MUNCHEN!

[Dominghosa]

IMPARTIAL

[Chris]

I think Marmol should agree to a contract that is $5 over what Chicago has in cap room and all this will be over. RBNY signs him and we can all move on. You can keep Conde at this point the dude is probably not match fit anyhow.

[Drew]

Interesting article. This provides even more evidence of Guppy being a complete imbecile and incompetent GM. I'm a Fire fan & it doesn't sound like he handled the JCO/Millonarios negotiations well at all. Giving him an out clause for nothing is stupid (I'm mean, what's the point of the contract then???) and not discussing his intentions w/Millonarios is shady. Yet again, all this seems to ultimately be Guppy's fault by creating the out clause.

That said, if JCO did indeed tell Hauptman that he was committed to the Fire when he bought the team, as one poster here mentioned, and then bolted a few weeks later, I could see why Hauptman would feel betrayed. And since it'd be a clear lie, would definitely bring JCO's character into question. Yes, I understand that players/coaches bolt all the time, but if Hauptman doesn't respect JCO or NY for "taking" his coach, it's completely w/in his right not to deal with them. The White Sox, as an example, rarely deal with Boras. It's a business decision that they made even though he works with many of the top players in the league, and they're doing just fine ('05 WS). While it may be petty for Hauptman to choose not to deal w/them, it's his club and his right if he doesn't like the other side (why help your enemies??? I believe we can all understand that feeling, no matter what club you root for). There are plenty of other teams w/which to deal.

It's a similar situation for Conde & Marmol. Just because they may prefer to play in NY, Chicago owns their rights and can do whatever they please. I get, for soccer reasons, why the Fire wouldn't want to help a very strong offensive NY team with a top notch defensive player in Conde. If NY suddenly had a strong defense, wouldn't that very much complicate Chicago's efforts w/in their conference? Same w/Marmol...if he's so good, why would the Fire let him go to NY??? I mean, most NY fans post about how it's just business and JCO chose to leave, it's his right blah blah blah, but then cry foul when Chicago decides to keep it's talent, how it's not the right thing to do by the players, blah blah blah. Why isn't that just business too? Anyhow, Chicago looks really strong and really really deep, so maybe if the MLS & Marmol come to an agreement we'll end up trading someone else. But just not to NY...Haahahahahahaha. :)

[rpks08]

I would like to point out that Hauptman did not own the team when we took Osorio. I would like to point out that at least we have an Owner who is so committed to his team and does not use it as a way to make a giant profit. He has improved my team with great vigor and what seems to be great success. I would like to point out that this is what Major League Soccer needs, owners who are all buddy buddy with each other. New Yorkers think they are the greatest, is this what Alexander Hamilton left the city with? arrogance. Chicago will always be treated as the younger smaller brother of New York, but when it came to saving this country during the 20th century it was our shoulders that carried trade and service for the rest of the country. We are better than you New York and will always be!

[giusepp]

mikemike-
scroll up, read some posts, and then hit google for me. Blame Marmol not playing on Marmol and the MLS...the fire has nothing to do with it.

[brett]

Matt- its pointless b/c this topic is old and forgotten... the current topics between the two are Conde and Marmol... rarely do you see anyone talk about JCO (unless its a lil' jab at watching him fail from time to time)... starting up an old fire is nothing more then getting a fan fueled battle on the internet.... this topic is pointless

Topher - the JCO train has come and gone... just some bitterness gets rooted from time to time... as one of us posted before the fire organization is about "Tradition, Honor and Passion".... while some were skeptical of Hamlett i relished in the fact that we have a coach who is fire through and through... and he seems to be doing a good job... he's holding onto Conde, b/c quite frankly he's too valuable to trade off (altho i wouldnt have objected to picking up richards).... he's (and the FO) are holding onto Marmol's rights b/c they truely feel he'll add to the team... its as simple as that, but people seem to be making it out that the "big bad fire organization" is out to ruin players' careers and not aid the redbulls...

ok, we wont aid the redbulls, thats apparent... but who would aid a rival... of course this wouldnt occur in other leagues, b/c the player has the decision... but rules are rules... a reasonable redbulls fan proposed a great idea in another thread about it... but i wont repost it here

[Michael F.]

What are Fire fans still crying about?
You got $500,000, an allocation and a draft pick for a coach who didn't want to be there and who was nice enough to LET you get compensation.

Stop whining like a bunch of 12-year-old school girls.

It will all be settled on the pitch.

[VirginiaMan]

Jokerman, I assume you named yourself with irony in mind? Because calling RBNY Tinkerbulls is hi-larious. I'm a DC United fan and I'm finding it hard not to dislike the Fire right now. Your organization is clearly vindicative, not to mention the fact that your star player is US Soccer's favorite guy, C-Blanco.

[Steve]

Chris you better make that Marmol contract $300,005 more than what the Fire have in cap space or else we'll just use that 300K allocation you gave us for Osorio. ;-)

We're real pricks out here in the midwest.

[EDB]

I love how the NYRB fans are now like Osorio let you get compensation.
If I'm Osorio, I know I'm not guarenteed the postion so its in my best interest to try and meet while I have this contract with the Fire.

He barigns and gets it. Then NYRB say ok we want to hire you. At this point he met while under contract. NY says i want to hire you. Then they both agree to avoid league problems , and you know there would be some, they give chicago compensation