Chicago Fire vs. NY Red Bulls: The feud, the details and the owner who can't let go

It was one of the most interesting stories of the MLS off-season. Juan Carlos Osorio's abrupt departure from the Chicago Fire to the New York Red Bulls and the subsequent feud that followed. It is a feud taken up by both team's fans and waged by the teams, well at least one team.

You see, Chicago hasn't let it go. More to the point, the Fire's new owner, Andrew Hauptman, hasn't let it go. Ever since Osorio said thanks, but no thanks to staying with the Fire, Hauptman has labled the Red Bulls, and Osorio specifically, as Public Enemy No. 1 in Chicago. According to multiple sources in MLS, Hauptman has told his team officials that the Fire will not do business of any kind with the Red Bulls.

While this shouldn't come as that much of a surprise, Hauptman's recent public declarations about his contempt for Osorio's departure have kicked up some embers on a flame that looked like it might fade. However, in his attempt to discredit Osorio and portray him as a villain to a Fire fanbase that already thinks Osorio is the devil, Hauptman has opened the door to providing a clearer, and more accurate description of the circumstances surrounding Osorio departure from Chicago.

In multiple profiles on Hauptman written in Chicago newspapers recently, the Fire owner made reference to a clause in Osorio's contract with the Fire that would have allowed Osorio to leave his job. In neither case did Hauptman bother to point out that the fact that Osorio did not exercise that option, and in fact, helped the Fire secure a compensation package that was higher than any paid for a departing coach in the history of MLS.

Yes, you read that right. Osorio's contract with the Fire included a clause that would have allowed him to resign, and after 30 days, he would have been free to take a position with any other team in the world, MLS or otherwise. The poorly-constructed contract, which came courtesy of Chicago's previous owners AEG, left the door open for Osorio to walk away.

After initially being denied permission to speak with the Red Bulls about the job vacated by former coach Bruce Arena, Osorio used the escape clause as a bargaining tool. What started as a mild interest in the Red Bulls position turned into a strong desire to leave Chicago as Hauptman's handling of the situation left Osorio eager to leave the club. With the escape clause as the ideal bargaining chip, Osorio made it clear to Chicago. Either the Fire let him interview with the Red Bulls and let the Red Bulls pay compensation if they hired him, or he would walk away and Chicago would receive nothing upon him being hired by the Red Bulls.

The Fire relented and eventually negotiated a considerable compensation package with the Red Bulls that included cash (which some sources put at approximately $500,000), a major allocation ($300,000) and the Red Bulls first-round draft pick. A hefty price and a price that would not have been paid if Osorio had not felt a sense of obligation to see Chicago compensated.

Chicago accepted that compensation from the Red Bulls, but that didn't stop the Fire, and specifically Hauptman, from pressing the league to investigate the Red Bulls for tampering. According to sources, MLS proceeded with an investigation, interviewing several of the parties involved in Osorio's move to the Red Bulls. The league never did penalize the Red Bulls for the alledged tampering.

Perhaps the most ironic aspect of Chicago's bitterness regarding Osorio's departure is the fact that the circumstances surrounding the Fire's courtship of Osorio from Colombian club Millonarios were just as, if not more, questionable than Osorio's departure to the Red Bull. According to sources, Fire president John Guppy traveled to Colombia to meet with Osorio and watch his training sessions without ever speaking to anybody at Millonarios (and also spoke to Osorio about the Fire head coaching job before he had even fired Dave Sarachan). The Fire never asked for permission to speak to Osorio while he was still Millonarios coach nor did Chicago offer any compensation when Osorio was let out of his contract by Millonarios.

Not exactly the actions of a club that should be crying foul about tampering now, are they? If anything, some would call Osorio's subsequent departure from the Fire to the Red Bulls a touch of karma. I know Millonarios fans would.

So what now? There is no what now, not when it comes to the Fire and Red Bulls. There is merely contempt and anymosity and while there is nothing wrong with a good old soccer feud, there is just something wrong about a feud not born out of on-field battles, but off-field disputes.

Comments

[sal]

Oh the irony!

I'll spell it out for you...

"Ives: The reporter who can't let go"

[oniosack]

How much you want to bet Fire fans come in here and try and discredit you and act like brats.

They should be ashamed of their organization not defending it. Putting petty egos over the best interests of their club.

To any Fire fan responding, go f**k yourself i won't read it.

[Allan]

This makes Osorio look opportunistic.

[Ben]

front office mouthpiece
Clap Clap.. clap clap clap

[suicidallawyer]

I don't root for either team, so I'm impatial. But, it sounds like Osorio is quite the gentleman and that the Fire don't understand that ruthless modern business practices work both ways.

Legend has it that the original Chicago Fire was started by Mrs. O'Leary's cow. I guess it's only fair that the new Chicago Fire got extinguished by a pair of red Bulls!!!

Go AjaX!

[Chris]

Ives, why no mention of Conde and Marmol wanting to play in NY and Chicago acting like little girls regarding that situation?

[Pat]

good piece, one point, its unfair to insinuate hauptman with hypocrisy for possibly tampering with osorio's contract at millionarios then turning around and looking at the red bulls for the same thing. aeg would be the culprit w/ millionarios not hauptman.

[eshad15]

A touch of bias Ives? Obviously both sides are going to paint themselves out to be in the right, but in all reality this goes much deeper than just Osorio going to the Red Bulls. Bob Bradley should come to mind as should the ongoing conflict with Conde. The fact is that Fire fans in general are pissed off that the Red Bulls are continually delving into the Fire organization. The most important thing about this entire story is that the Fire now have an owner who cares just as much as Section 8 does and is not going to put up with the bs that AEG did.

[JSquaredNY]

Wow, pretty pathetic Chicago...

[Tom in Newark]

You know that just adds something to the ridiculousness of Fire fans' self righteous behavior throughout this whole saga. In the professional soccer world, coaches and player leave all the time for rival clubs. It is one thing to boo the departed, yet another to raise the dispute to the level of a Hatfields and McCoys feud, especially coming from owner & management.

[Fire Ron Guenther]

Show us your silverware, Red Bull fans.

[Tom in Newark]

You know, Fire fans shouldn't invoke AEG in one post and then completely forget about it in the next. You can't have it both ways. John Guppy was then and still is with the Fire. His role in the whole fiasco deserves a closer look. His lack of professionalism set this up.

[Al17]

As a Fire fan it's tiring to read the cheap shots that a few have been so quick to post. Fire fans were not made aware of this clause in Osorio's contract 'til now so for many of us this now falls under "Who was the dumbass to allow him the 30 day out clause in his contract?" AEG and Guppy or primarily AEG? In my mind if you don't want to be here, I say use the door, so I could care less about the fact he left however, this puts the whole issue on a different level. In other words, someone from the Fire lied to us Fire fans. That's who I'm pissed at.

[eshad15]

I love how you paint Osorio out to be an upright guy who was doing a great thing for the Fire by getting them some compensation. When in reality he was still copping out of a 3 year contract, it seems to me that he knew he was screwing over the Fire organization by leaving so he felt bad and tried to make up for it somewhat.

[kpugs]

Waaaaaaahhhhh!

My coach doesn't want to be here!

Waaaaaaaaaaah!

We got a ridiculous and unfair compensation package!

Waaaaaaaaaaah!

The referee gave us that Eastern Conference win!

Waaaaaaaaaaah!

Woah...sorry guys, my buddy is a Fire fan and he hijacked the keyboard. Funny how all they do is cry, cry, cry. You got an absurd compensation for him, and HE DIDN'T WANT TO STAY IN CHICAGO. Stop crying about it, he would have left no matter what. Jeebus.

[eshad15]

I think the fact that John Guppy is still with the Fire is a moot point to most Fire fans considering they have been calling for him to be fired for a long time.

[Javier]

how did he "cop out?" it was a clause in the contract.

face it people, the Fire and their fans are going to refuse to ignore the facts and act like children...worth a shot by Ives to point things out objectively, but naturally, there are going to be close-minded people out there...sad.

[Matt]

Nice scoop Ives. But I suspect you'll probably just get a lot of bitter Fire fans calling you a homer. The truth hurts.

[Mighty]

Good lvoe it!!!! Now Give us Conde and leave marmol alone... and lets have el Classico joven. Fire Vs. Red Bulls

[Jay-Z]

Ives...

Source?

Oh...right...

[dabull]

Ives,

Part of the animosity on the part of Fire fans toward Osorio was that he left the team after less than year for what many MLS fans consider a lesser team. If he went to a European team, most fans would be saying good luck. Also, one of his main excuses for leaving was that his wife did not like it in Chicago because of the 'small Columbian population. That is a surprising statement to make coming from a husband who has dragged his wife from England to Columbia to Chicago and now to New Jersey. If he had truely cared about his wife, he might have actually done a little research on the Columbian community in Chicago and discussed it with his wife. Seems a little wierd to most fans. The Chicago Fire have a history of "Tradtion, Honor, Passion" that fans take very seriously. In abruptly leaving Chicago after less than one season and failing to give a logical explanation, it is very clear to most Fire fans that Osorio has very little respect to the "Tradition, Honor, Passion" of the Chicago Fire.

Fans are also very displeased over the Conde situation as well. If Osorio and Conde had to be together that badly, Osorio should have stayed in Chicago. Conde is going to have problems in advancing his career if he continues to refuse to play for any other coach besides Osorio.

To a much lesser extent there is the Lider Marmol situation. Osorio brought Marmol to the attention of the Chicago Fire FO when he was still the coach. Due to some issues they couldn't sign him at the end of last season. They still wanted to sign him, so they put a discovery claim on him after Osorio had left and apparently just before NYRB did. Everything the Fire did was within the rules, and the FO has said they intend to sign him. Just tell NYRB thanks for keeping him in shape for us.

Ives, if you want things to die, maybe you shouldn't be writing articles about them.

[adam]

look at the big picture in terms of where the league is going/growing. the sport is like this EVERYWHERE else in the world. teams are always looking at someone else's players or staff while trying to make their team better (as long as they play within the rules). its feuds like this that actually push the old "making-rules-as-we-go" and "crossing-bridges-when-we-get-there" MLS to start taking a more professional approach from top to bottom.

ives brings up a good point about 'weak' contracts - i promise you this won't happen again. JCO did nothing wrong as per his written contract. sure its a nice little pissing match between chicago and ny that will never have a clear winner, but it now pushes all parts of MLS to up their game a bit.

[EDB]

I think it was more like Osorio , wanted to interview and wasnt sure he would get the job. Otherwise when the fire refused he could have resigned right then. Instead he negotiated the right to interview.

Also, like mentioned above you can't blame the owner when AEG where the owners when Guppy went to columbia.

In the End I'm glad the owner is pissed, the new info on the contract is going to make fire fans hate Guppy more. And Conde should be playing this weekend.

[guillermo]

My sources tell me Hauptman's contempt for Osorio comes from conversations with JCO that occurred after Hauptman took over from AEG. Osorio let it be known to the new owner that he was committed to the Fire organization. Hauptman took it personally when JCO decided to go back on his word. The contract clause not withstanding, Hauptman expected his coach live up to his commitment for more than 16 weeks.

What I don't quite get is, if the clause was cut and dried as an out clause why didn't NYRB just wait the 30 days and hire JCO. Are they stupid enough to give the Fire a compensation package when they didn't have to?

The entire scenario in which the Fire acquired Osorio tells me one thing. That is that BOTH John Guppy AND Osorio are weasles.

[Greg]

Happy now Chicago fans? You're FO is in the WRONG and Osorio didn;t have to get you ANYTHING as compensation. He did it anyway. THESE ARE FACTS. YOU HAVE NO CASE.

Your front office lied to you, and Hauptman is a nutter.

[Mighty]

I smell Fire Fans..... Red Bulls Baby!!!

[EDB]

Ives,

If the Fire let Osorio interview, and then Osorio resigns and signs 30 days later don't you think that would have caused a much greater problem in the MLS and that's the reason the NYRB decided to give compensation?

[Paul]

Without even trying to understand the arguments on either side, I must say that anything that ratchets up a rivalry is good for MLS.

[dabull]

Well, if Osorio could have left for nothing, doesn't it make the Fire FO look GOOD for basically getting a couple draft picks and $800,000 from the Red Bulls??

Looking at it from a different angle, doesn't it make the Red Bulls FO look BAD if they gave up $800,000 and a couple drafts to get a coach they could have gotten for NOTHING??

[THE Nick]

After reading everything from both sides and taking a look at this situation, it's nice knowing that Osorio is a stand up guy...and that Red Bull are in the clear, and it's the Fire FO and fans who are making asses of themselves. . . pathetic...

[frank]

i'm not a fan of either team, quakes fan here.so aeg screwing sh!t up again? no that never happens with them! the worst part in all this is the fact that 2 very good players are in the middle of all this crap. i say just play , and move on , everyone.

[Bob S]

Ives supporting the Red Bulls, well I'll be! I also remember you mentioning that Osorio never looked at MLS as a stepping stone to something bigger which was a complete lie. Love the site but hot damn I could do without the pandering.

[RedLine55]

Yup, this article will DEFINITELY help the embers die down... JCO might be opportunistic, but he's got nothin' on Ives!

[Connor]

Guillermo...New York did not wait the 30 days and hire JCO because JCO was actually decent and got Chicago more than they deserved. He decided not to opt out and rather have New York basically buy him from Chicago when they did not need to based off of the contract.

New York fans should probably be angrier at Osorio than Chicago fans after this. We gave up a major allocation for no reason?

Seriously Chicago is being over dramatic and ridiculous. They have a coach and they have a good team this year. Marmol does not want to play for them and to keep him from playing soccer is not hurting the Red Bulls as much as it is hurting the player. He wants to sign a contract here and play in New York but Hauptman is unwilling to trade the discovery filing and let New York get Marmol.

Marmol wont get to play BECAUSE of Chicago.

[anotherbodymurdered]

sal says it all in the first comment. You get good adsense $ from these flamewars, Ives?

[David Martinez]

Ives is purty damn impartial.

Didnt he say he doesnt even own an MLS jersey?

:P

Look, if this is the situation, it is simply business.

I think the Bulls should sign Innes, forget Marmol, and leave this mess behind us. Like any good businesss man, Hauptman will realize that cutting off your nose to spite your face (not trading with the bulls or withholding trades in fear of red bulls receiving a Fire player) is not a good business strategy.

I cant talk though. I am as biased as they come over this situation.

[EDB]

Connor,

Marmol actually won't be able to play because he's asking for more money then MLS will pay him. Also, the Fire are with in thier rights, NYRB or his agent should have let him know about it prior to him going to train with them

[mdh]

Odienos mas

[frank]

and Sal- the poster who can't stop reading and posting.

[Alejandro Ruiz]

You think Steinbrenner would put up with this crap without holding a grudge? Didn't think so.
http://tinyurl.com/48qy4l

[ag nigrin]

Most of the Chica fans posting here are a bunch of whiners... whaaaaaaa, whaaaaaa and whaaaaa like kpugs writes... Osorio always wanted to come back to NYC where he has family and friends...when the new owner took over Osorio smelled a rat (when he initially was not granted an interview for the recently vacated RB job) and got the hell out... You can't blame him for wanting to leave... now they are shafting Conde and Marmol... sounds like JPO made the right move...

[dabull]

"Marmol wont get to play BECAUSE of Chicago."

Reality check here, if Marmol won't get to play because of MARMOL! If MLS offers him a contract to play and he doesn't sign it, that's HIS fault. I'm not defended MLS complicated rules, they are what they are so we all have to deal with it.

I just think its amusing to think about what NYRB fans would be saying if the roles were reversed. Everybody can get up on their high horse and say the other is an asshole, but you would be saying the exact same things if Chicago did it to you.

[frank]

jokerman(great name?!) ives didn't even name the players in the article. the fans did. your genius of an owner is the one screwing the players. read before talking crap.

[Matt]

Invasion of the BigSoccer morons. Batten down the hatches!

[irishapple21]

Fire fans are kind of like fundamentalists. They believe what they believe with no evidence to support them and will never ever bow to reason. It is useless to converse with them.

[Greg]

I find it funny that all unbiased parties have sided with RBNY and JCO so far. Tells you something abut those delusional half-wits in the midwest.

[guillermo]

Connor,

JCO is definetly not in the clear here. He decided he wanted to pursue the NYRB job after the Red Bulls floated the idea of hiring a coach who was under contract to another team. The compensation package was due to no great sense of dignity from Osorio. When he decided he wanted to go to NY and hid behind his wife and family as an excuse he did not know for sure that he was going to get the NY job.

If you recall, before the compensation package or trade was announced, JCO had yet to come to an agreement with NYRB. The Fire front office hastily announced he was leaving before the deal with NY was done. NYRB should be pissed at their front office for not waiting the 30 days, if indeed that time frame is accurate.

There really is no right and wrong in the whole thing. Fire fans will be blame JCO and NYRB while the NY side will paint the picture through red bull colored glasses. The fact is that BOTH Guppy and JCO acted less than professionally, and now the new owner is not happy about it understandably.

[EDB]

I whish people would stop saying the players are getting screwed.

1 has a contract and is getting paid. the other if they want to play in the MLs needs to abide by the rules of MLS. If he wants he can go ply his trade in other leagues.

[Connor]

EDB-

Of course Chicago is within their rights to not take Marmol if they think he is getting a salary that is too high. But MLS is low-balling Marmol because Chicago does not want to pay him the amount the Red Bulls can. From my understanding, there have been reports that New York was willing to compensate Chicago for Marmol and Chicago said no. Teams have done deals like that in the past. I believe Kenny Cooper was supposed to go to KC but Dallas gave them something and got Cooper.

If Marmol clearly does not want to play for Chicago...which is clear because he does not train with them, then Chicago should be reasonable and take some draft picks or something and let us sign him.

Yes Chicago is within their rights in respect to the situation, but that does not mean that they are not being pricks about it to both Marmol and the Red Bulls.

[dabull]

Fire fans were actually over this for the most part. I haven't heard too much JCO bashing in a while. Ives took two lines out of an article and made a huge leap basically saying all Chicago fans wake-up every morning cursing Osorio and should get over it. Ives, we are over it. I suggest you do the same. Great piece of journalism, Ives.

Also, Guppy being a dumbass and screwing things up?? We've know that for years! Great scoop there Ives, surprised you couldn't pick that up when he worked for the Metrostars.