Red Bulls Update

It's been a long time coming but it's time for another update on the Red Bulls.

The team heads down to South Carolina today ahead of the Charleston Cup. I was able to head down to Red Bulls training on Thursday and here are some tidbits:

Lider Marmol was rehabbing on the side and looked pretty healthy. At least healthier than you would expect someone with a major hamstring injury to be. How healthy? At one point he was juggling a medicine ball, not exactly something you do well if you have a bad hammy.

Marmol appears borderline depressed about his uncertain status with MLS. He clearly wants to sign with the Red Bulls but has accepted the fact that he could wind up with the Chicago Fire.

I asked Juan Carlos Osorio about the fact that the club has yet to announce a major signing this off-season, and whether this was a cause for concern with the season set to start in a month. Osorio stated clearly that he has two international players the club is in position to sign. He also stated that the two players would join the team before the end of the transfer period (which ends April 15). He wouldn't give names but it is safe to say that one of the players is the attacking midfielder the club is in dire need of.

Osorio is traveling to South America this weekend to look at some more players. He will not be with the Red Bulls for their exhibition match on Saturday.

Mike Magee is enjoying a very strong preseason and could very well have earned a starting central midfield role. There is reason for cautious optimism since Magee has enjoyed stellar preseasons in the past. If he stays healthy and focused, this could be his breakout season.

Clifton native Teddy Niziolek has left camp. It had less to do with the fact that Columbus wanted compensation for him as it did with the fact that the Red Bulls had other options at his positions. Ultimately, Niziolek could play center back and d-mid, but neither good enough to stand out in the coaches minds.

For those of you wondering, Jose de Jesus Mendoza has left the building. No, he's not dead, just not with the Red Bulls anymore. As I told you from my reports in Austria, he just wasn't that impressive.

Eric Brunner looked pretty good on Thursday, including an nice run and long-range blast for a goal. He is settling in well but I'm still not sure about him getting minutes early on in the season.

Speaking of rookies doing well, no rookie has increased his stock more this preseason than Luke Sassano, who enjoyed a monster of a game in the Red Bull's 3-2 exhibition win against Red Bull Salzburg. He had a goal and assist in that match and I believe he's pushing for a starting job in place of the injured Dane Richards.

Hunter Freeman's foray at the left back spot for the U.S. Under-23 team is NOT something you will see with the Red Bulls. Osorio prefers left-footed players to play on the left side (he's sort of the anti-Nowak in that regard).

Kevin Goldthwaite's good preseason continues and I would say he's the safe bet to start on opening day.

So what does the Red Bulls opening day lineup look like if the opener were today? Here's my take:

-----------------Angel-------Altidore-----------

Van Den Bergh--------Magee----------Freeman

--------------Stammler----Reyna----------------

Goldthwaite----------Parke--------------Mendes

-----------------------Conway---------------------

What variations could we see? Reyna in Magee's spot and Sassano in Reyna's spot is the only other variation I see (though it wouldn't shock me if Oscar Echeverry started). I know I had discussed rookie Danleigh Borman starting on the left flank and Van Den Bergh starting in central midfield, but I think for the start of the season you will see Van Den Bergh on the left. He might only be able to give the team 60 to 70 minutes in that very demanding 3-5-2 wing role but the job is Van Den Bergh until a new player arrives.

That's all for now. Share your thoughts on the state of the Red Bulls below.

Comments

[Dave Martinez]

A bad happy? (hammy?)

BTW - if we have DVB on the left flank - does that nullify the need for an LB with a L foot in a 3-5-2? Not as important for those crosses now is it?

Great update Ives. Thanks for the info.

[Dannyc58]

Awesome. Thank you Ives.

[josh]

don't want to nitpick, but in the past when this team played with three in the back parke was usually on the right with mendes in the middle

[Craig]

Other than Angel and Altidore up top, the rest of that team doesn't scare anyone in the league. The RedBulls better hope to bring in those 2 internationals and have them click right away, or it's going to be a long season.

[Frimp]

Thanks for the update Ives. I may be one of few, but I'm feeling ok with possible lineups for the start of the season. RBNY says they're streaming the CarolinCup games at www.USLLive.com...

[Christian]

Ives,

what are the chances Chicago will pass on Marmol, thus allowing us to sign him?

Will they sign him just to spite us? or they did actually look at him to contribute this season?

Thanks in advance.

[guillermo]

My heart is breaking over poor Lidar's borderline depression. He should thank his carpet bagging coach for the position he is in.

[Rocco]

Thanks Ives,

The Anti-Nowak. Funny. How is Reyna doing? Healthy?

On a side note - Is the new training facility being built yet? Its 5 min from my house, I need to take a pass by there.

[tommymcb]

VDB may start at left mid? I remember last year.
1)Reyna passes to VDB.
2) VDB turns it over right away.
3) Thousands says that Reyna sucks.
4) Thousands point out that VDB is a good locker room guy.

[kpugs]

I need Magee to bring it in the regular season. A while back I mentioned that though I couldn't pinpoint the dates, there was a stretch of games a few seasons ago where Magee was just plain effective in the midfield, ranging the width of the field. If he can regain that form he would be a great option for the team in 2008.

If he can't he's basically useless.

[Ives]

Josh, it has been Parke in the middle and Mendes on the right ALL preseason. Parke is the preferred central defender option.

[Ives]

Christian, Chicago will sign him to use him, not to spite the Red Bulls. No team can afford to waste salary cap space on vendettas, and Marmol did spend six weeks training with the Fire so Denis Hamlett is aware that the player is effective.

Now, will Chicago pay what it takes to get him? If not, then I think the Red Bulls can step in and get him.

[Ives]

And Guillermo, blaming Osorio for the wacky rules of MLS is a bit much, isn't it?

[J.C]

Ives,

"Marmol appears borderline depressed about his uncertain status with MLS. He clearly wants to sign with the Red Bulls but has accepted the fact that he could wind up with the Chicago Fire."

How could you possibly know this? Where is a quote of him even slightly implying that? Maybe he is "Borderline Depressed" due to his sidelining injury.

Jumping to conclusions once again

[dpm]

From yesterday's Red Balls update:

"For me, the two teams are good and, whether it's New York or Chicago, I will try to do the best I can and give my all," Marmol said.

So who are we to believe?

[mdh]

I'll believe the horse's mouth, over a biased interpretation.

[Rob C]

Craig above says that other than Altidore/Angel up top, this isn't a scary team. I'll say this, Angel/Altidore up top is really all this team needs in terms of being scary. That's a borderline European caliber strike partnership. All the rest of the team needs to do is be serviceable...hold possession, make good passes and get the ball to the strikers. Reyna and Magee have done well with that this pre-season, if you've been following. Also, in addition to that, what team is truly "scary" in MLS? Anyone can beat anyone else on a given night; there's no Real Madrid or Manchester United-type team in MLS where an opponent walks onto the field and is truly intimidated. To me, Red Bull currently looks like a real solid MLS squad with great forwards. If the coaching improves the defense, I love this team's chances.

Also, Tommymcb, I disagree totally on van den Bergh. I thought he was great all season last year and didn't turn the ball over a lot at all. He was the team's most reliable crosser, and he also has a good shot from distance. I like vdB and hope they keep him.

Good to hear reinforcements in the form of international players are on the way. Thanks Ives and go RBNY.

[RK]

So, where did Mendoza end up?

[Ives]

JC, the "borderline depressed" remark was about him not knowing what will happen next, particularly after not having been with a team for six months, not about him having to go to Chicago.

As for him preferring to play for the Red Bulls, why would he state that publicly when there's a good chance he'll wind up with the Fire? And why would that help matters for either side, Marmol stating he only wants to play for the Red Bulls? It wouldn't. MLS has already established that Chicago will have first crack at him.

Ask yourself this question (I'm talking to the handful of folks who made their comments on here the first comments they've ever made on SBI): If Marmol really didn't care where he wound up, and the chances were stronger that he'd wind up with Chicago, then why is he still with the Red Bulls? And why is he traveling with the Red Bulls to Charleston?

The situation will sort itself out soon enough, but those of you who refuse to believe that Marmol doesn't have a preference in where he would rather play really are living in denial.

[mgp]

Thanks Ives.

If you posted this previously, and I missed it apologies, but any update on Matt Kassell? It seems like he's going to Maryland...

[mdh]

"The situation will sort itself out soon enough, but those of you who refuse to believe that Marmol doesn't have a preference in where he would rather play really are living in denial."

Maybe this has something to do with the fact that NYRB are playing exhibitions, and that the Fire returned from their Mexican matches on Wednesday for closed practices. Game experience with MLS talent will prepare him no matter where he ends up playing.

But hey, I've never been a reporter and thus don't have the accumulated talents of one -- including telepathy.

[Jerry]

What the heck is wrong with these freaking Fire fans? Are you all really that dense? I think it's pretty obvious that Marmol isnt going to say outright that he wants to sign with the red bulls.

Are any of you with the red bulls? Any of you speak to Marmal? I'll take the word of the reporter who was actually in Austria and has probably talked to Marmol a few times by now over some retards in Chicago sitting on their computer pretending they know whats going.

[Mogens Agesen]

I agree with Rob C's judgement of Van Den Bergh. He was clearly one of the best player on the team last season, very good vision and great crosses, I never could understand all the chatter about Van Den Bergh being to slow for MLS, his soccer brain is superb and much quicker than most other players in MLS and that mental quickness combined with superb vision in my opinion makes him one of the best players in the league. I remember Van Den Bergh playing left fullback in several games last season where he more than held his own against fast oponents because he knows how to play a faster oponent and he often overlapped and maded great crosses and still got back to defend. I am not surprised that Osorio has not traded Van Den Bergh.

[tommymcb]

Rob C,

VDB has a very good head for the game. He always knows what he is supposed to do, and he is a good crosser. The cross to Woly in the box that set up a free kick was spectacular. My problem is that many times his body does not seem able to do what his mind wants him to do.

The game that sticks out is the on in Houston where they got blown out. Thats the game where Angel and Reyna got benched in the second half. VDB got owned that game. He would get the pass, look up, and the defender would take it away. After that game, VDB rode the pine for a while. He only got back on the field after no one else was able to step up at LB. The second half of his season was up and down.

If the Bulls had a great LM that could get Reyna's passes and make more out of it, the Bull's would instantly be a much better team.

[groovester]

Robc says "I'll say this, Angel/Altidore up top is really all this team needs in terms of being scary."

I agree, however, how many games will Altidore play this season, 15 or 16, before he leaves for the olympics and then transfers?

[philly2010]

Any new rumors about Matt Kassel?

[Ives]

Regarding Van Den Bergh, while he is definitely a good option as a left winger in a 4-4-2, the position requires different qualities in a 3-5-2. It remains unclear whether VDB's lack of speed and his conditiioning will allow him to be a 90-minute player covering most of the left flank in a 3-5-2.

And no, Van Den Bergh's presence on the left doesn't change Osorio's desire for a left-footed defender to play the left back role. Osorio wants players who can pass with their stronger foot near the sideline, you can strip someone of the ball and get an outlet pass out more quickly rather than having to switch feet, particularly with long passes.

[EDB]

I am a Fire fan , and I believe Marmol most likely prefers RBNY because he has been trianing with them for a while now.

However, all this stuff about wacky rules and unfair is well unfair. The rules where in place before the trial started. JCO knew in advance about them and also knew the fire would not be friendly with him or his new club. To act as all this is shocking is what I find most laughable.

[dpm]

I agree it doesn't make sense for Marmol to specify which team he prefers, but that doesn't mean it's time to start projecting moods onto him regarding the situation. If we're going to speculate, who's to say he's not travelling with the team to be able to eat, work out, and stay in a hotel on the team's dime?

As for taking the word of the reporter who has traveled with the team and blah blah blah, I'll pass. I appreciate this site a lot, but I prefer taking those reports with some salt, thanks.

[Aguinaga]

Jerry, you don't post on another board using the handle "Voice of Reason II" by any chance, do you? ;) Moving on, have been waiting for this update since you mentioned it yesterday Señor Galarcep. Muy agradecido.

[Smith]

Dosn't anyone else find Fire fans as amusing as I do? Their sense of moral outrage is a never ending source of laughter.

[RK]

" And why is he traveling with the Red Bulls to Charleston?"

It's a great town? :)

[Ives]

EDB, when I made the comment about the league's wacky rules, that isn't unfair. MLS has rules not found anywhere else in the world, which is how you can have a player completely dumbfounded by them. Marmol thought he could just come here and sign with the Red Bulls, only to learn that wasn't the case.

The discovery system, as it is set up, does serve a purpose. The problem is when teams take advantage of it to try and block other teams. In the Marmol case this isn't so, at least to my knowledge. Chicago had Marmol in camp last year and Denis Hamlett surely knows who he is and what he brings.

So no, I'm not taking sides in the Marmol case. He goes where he goes, but I do know that he would prefer to play for the Red Bulls. And it's for the same reason Wilman Conde wants to be a Red Bull. Will he state that publicly? Of course not, it does him no good to say so.

[BeautifulGame]

Hey Rocco:
I live in Hanover, NJ, site of the new training facility.
In our town's "state of the town adress", the facility was discussed.
It seems the hold up is some NJ state red tape related to COAH (Council for Affordable Housing). Mayor Francioli called it a minor snag.

[guillermo]

Ives,

I just couldn't pass up another shot at JCO, that carpet bagging weasel deserves everything he gets.

I also find it humorous that you feel the need to defend him so vigorously.

[Rocco]

Beautiful game,

Thanks for the update. I live in Morristown. It looks like its going to be awesome. I can't wait to be able to go over and catch them practice once in awhile, if they allow it.

[Ives]

Guillermo, when exactly did I defend Osorio in this post?

[BeautifulGame]

Rocco:
You and me both, bud.
Wouldn't it be friggin great to maybe meet some of the guys - shake a hand, get an autograph, whatever!

[guillermo]

"And Guillermo, blaming Osorio for the wacky rules of MLS is a bit much, isn't it?"

JCO should be well aware of the rules, I'm not blamimg him for the silly rules. I'm blaming him for screwing up and NYRB getting the claim in after the Fire. Yet JCO acts like it's some big conspiracy to get back at him.

[Amit]

Maybe we Red Bulls fans should stay calm. There are definitely talented, youngish players on the team. JCO seems rather smug about the way the team will shape up. I just want to see the Red Bulls in some sort of international competition next year. I'm getting really jealous of Houston, L.A., D.C., etc.

[Ives]

Guillermo, YOU blamed Osorio for Marmol being unhappy with his current situation. I blamed it on MLS rules that exist nowhere else in the world. I guess you can say I defended Osorio there but that's because you went after him when the topic had nothing to do with Osorio.

[RK]

Ives, since you are around, what happened w/ Mendoza?

[Ives]

RK, I added it to the post. Mendoza just wasn't good enough. He had decent size and some quickness but just never seemed to pass well or link up with the forwards well. It was pretty odd to see a player with his resume look so useless. I suppose we now know how he had so many other MLS trials and never caught on.

[guillermo]

The topic has plenty to do with JCO, he's the head coach of the team which is trying to sign him AND the former head coach of the team which entered the claim on him.

I'll blame him all day for not knowing the rules.

[RK]

Sorry, missed it back up there. I watched him with America in 2000, and only remembered his name because he was -that- bad. I give credit to NYRB and MLS for realizing it, and not just putting him on a roster because of his supposed pedigree.

[Ives]

Guillermo, just admit that you hate the guy and move on. Marmol came here believing he could just sign with the Red Bulls, not having a clue about the discovery process and the fact that a team he had no intention of joining could somehow have his rights within the league.

You can blame Osorio for not getting in the discovery claim on time, though I wonder how much Jeff Agoos had to do with that one.

[EDB]

Ives, my problem isn't with you pointing them out. Its the fact that NYRB should have forseen this occurance. They do know the rules.

Maybe RBNY did tell Marmol if he came for a trial this could happen I'm not sure. I just find it odd that JCO who has been in the league for a while, would bring him in then comment on the rules like he did in a prior peace of yours.

[guillermo]

What EDB said is 100% correct.

And for the record I don't hate JCO, I just want to see him lose.....alot.

[EDB]

Ives,

Sorry it was a NY Times piece

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/sports/soccer/04soccer.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

"“When I first saw him in Chicago, I wanted to sign him,” Osorio said Sunday during an interview in Salzburg. “Now I know I want to sign him. He is a good player and can distribute the ball. The problem is we do not know what will happen with the league. It is kind of silly, but what can we do with these rules?”"

[VictorM]

Unless reinforcements come in, that's a depressing line up. Basically the same mediocre team we had last year. Yet, all other teams in the east seemed much improved (at least on paper).

If we stumble by with another .500 or so season, expect lots of crowds in the lower teens.

[Cindy]

my goodness how some people just don't let things go and just keep repeating themselves...

[brett]

i just hope the fire make a decision soon. we still have cap space, and would like to see more depth in the back-line... if not Marmol, then someone with promise

If the fire have no intent on using him then they wont sign him.... simple as that
they wouldnt bother wasting the cap space for someone they have no faith in

[Jon E]

I agree that most of the Fire fans jumping on Ives for "defending Osorio" didn't do a good job reading Ives's post.

Still, I think that a lot of this mess IS Osorio's fault. First, he jumped ship on the Fire and then (apparently) expected to have no problem signing a player that he'd scouted, recruited, and trialled for the Fire. Second, he seems not to have explained the possible pitfalls of the discovery system to Marmol until AFTER everybody involved fell into the pits. Maybe that's not what happened, but to an outsider, that's what it looks like.

(FWIW, I'm a Galaxy fan, so I neither have a stake in this fight nor any reason to think that coaches and GMs won't at least occasionally screw up decisions about whom to sign and how best to sign them.)

[alex]

You're going to play goldwaite in a 3-back formation? That sounds dangerous.

[Dannyc58]

Rocco/BeautfilGame,

I'm near Saint Barnabus hospital, see you guys at the practice facility!

-Dan

[Tim F.]

I can't wait until the lineup is this:

-----------------Angel-------Altidore-----------

New Guy--------New Guy----------Richards

--------------Stammler----Reyna----------------

New Guy/Conde -----Parke/Mendes-----Freeman

-----------------------Conway---------------------

[MasterShake]

Ives,

I cannot really understand how Goldthwaite is impressing JCO. Was I watching the same games last season?? He is simply atrocious.

[MasterShake]

Tim F. I agree with you, except swap Reyna with New Guy and the New Guy on the left should be VDB, he is pretty impressive.

[aristotle]

I have been asking about the possibility of Claudio Reyna as the creative midfielder for some time, and there doesn't seem to be a clear answer coming from anyone. Again, he was the best creative midfielder we ever had at the national team level before being converted by European teams, and Ives has commented on how well he has been doing in the pre-season in that role. So, is he going to be playing that role or is it going to someone else?

The last time I asked a couple of people reacted like it was a stupid question because Ives had said he was doing well in that role. Now I see he is commenting on the "dire need" of an attacking midfielder again. Does this mean NYRB will be playing with a creative midfielder AND an attacking midfielder, or is the attacking midfielder we keep hearing about going to takeover as both?

[aristotle]

One more thing. How about a new Cup to play for? We could call it the Hate Shield, and it would take place between NYRB and Chicago each year.

[Joamiq]

I'll put money on dpm and mdh being the same person.

[Denis]

I agree with Tim F and MasterShake. That "New Guy" at left back should be Scott Palguta. Ives doesn't mention him as being in SC but the Rhinos website says he was loaned to NYRB for the Carolina Challenge Cup. He must still be in the running for a roster spot. Saw him play twice last year. In a word, "STUD."

[Russ]

Palguta would fit the bill nicely. He's a Jersey guy, big and tough. The Bulls took him to LA and Austria so maybe there's a deal in the wings.

[Eugene]

Gotta agree with Craig. If this is our starting 11 we're in trouble.

Lets be serious for a second. VDB was too slow last year and now he's a year older. Hunter Freeman plays well as right back, now we're moving him to right mid?! Has anyone seen his play with the U-23s on the left side? This guy can't play as a wing, no way. Mike Magee wasn't even dressing for most matches last year, now we's our starting attacking mid?

Uh oh.

[Eugene]

"we's" should be "he's"