There isn't going to be a bigger story involving an American soccer player this summer than the one surrounding Clint Dempsey and his club future.
After tallying his 22nd goal in all competitions to rescue yet another point for Fulham against Chelsea on Monday, Dempsey's stock continues to grow in value as he heads toward the final year of his Fulham contract. His contract status means the Cottagers could be forced to sell him in order to avoid the risk of losing him to a free transfer in a year.
Fresh reports out of the UK suggest that Arsenal have kept a watchful eye on Dempsey and are set to make a £10 million move to try and acquire the in-form American from London rival Fulham.
Here is my Fox Soccer column on Dempsey and why his banner year will mean a likely exit from Craven Cottage.
Give the column a read and let us know where you think Dempsey will wind up. Like the idea of Arsenal buying Dempsey, or are you hoping he lands somewhere else in the Premier League? Would you like him to stay at Fulham?
Share your thoughts below.
As a Fulham supporter, I can’t stand the idea of him playing for another EPL side; and, I think there is risk for him moving to a bigger, deep EPL club where his place is not guaranteed. All it takes is a dip in form and he may not have the vote of confidence Fulham managers have shown in the past three years–he could end up on the bench.
I’m biased, but I’d rather he stay at Fulham or move to another league’s “big club”, like a Roma perhaps. I think he could do very well in Italy.
As a Fulham fan I want him to stay w/ the club, get a nice contract, and see Fulham get a bit more ambitious to make a run for a spot in the UCL.
As a USMNT fan (and overall Dempsey obsessor) I think it could be a good move for him as well as interest in the sport on the US. I don’t think he’d be a certain bench warmer either (or if he is, not very long). He doesn’t look like a player who should be “getting on up there” in years.
the confidence fulham managers have shown in him? he has fought for a starting spot virtually every year, not including this year.
I would put Arsenal at the head of the pack for his services, although I wouldn’t count out Newcastle if they’re able to make it to the Champions League. Or he could stay put at Fulham…why make a change to something that’s working so well?
It’s nice to see American strikers scoring goals. It has been awhile since fans have had the opportunity to see this. Deuce and Herculez Gomez give me hope that the US will have the quality to play an attacking style going into World Cup qualifying.
As a Gunners and USMNT fan, it would be a dream to see Dempsey at Arsenal. That said, will Wenger really spend that kind of money on a 29 year old?
I hope Spurs make a move for him.
He could play ahead of Modric in Van Der Vaarts spot.
I will be surprised if Dempsey ends up moving to Arsenal. I would really love to see him as a feature player for a CL squad in Germany or Italy.
The transfer of Arshavin makes a nice little Dempsey-shaped hole on the left of the Arsenal attack.
10 mil is a laugh. The man has scored 20 goals this season.
Dempsey’s game is not really suited as much for the Italian game – not that I think he couldn’t succeed, just that i don’t think it’s the best course of action.
Additionally, if Dempsey is going to leave he’ll do so for Champions League football, so why would he go to Roma, who are 6th in a league that gets 3 CL spots?
I think Arsenal would be a fantastic place for him. I think he could start on the wing opposite Walcott right now, and even if/when Podolski comes over the summer, I think Dempsey is faster, tougher, and better with the ball at his feet. Competition will only make him better.
There’s only one team in London, and Duece looks good in red!
——-Adebayor ——–
——–Dempsey——-
Bale ————-Lennon
—–Modric—Parker—-
BAE-Kaboul-Gallas-Walker
——–Friedel———-
He bought Arteta last year. We all know Arsene loves his teenagers, but the man knows quality.
I hope Newcastle gets into the Champions League and buys Dempsey. Why? Newcastle has a strong tradition, a great coach and is striving upward, not trying to hang onto a place in the top tier of the EPL. (Here’s the Guardian on their manager Alan Pardew: link to guardian.co.uk )
Not to mention, I was in Newcastle once as a kid, and as a grownup I love Newcastle Brown Ale.
Dude has got “mad hops” in that photo. Next time you interview him Ives ask him what his vertical is.
I don’t care where he ends up as long as he becomes the most expensive US player ever and the most highly compensated by a good margin.
My favorite tidbit from the article isn’t on Dempsey but Tim Ream. I love hearing that Bolton are playing him as a defensive midfielder, I think that is his true position, maximizing his talent at both defending and distribution, and minimizing his occasional blunders in the backline.
You didn’t know Dempsey walks on air as well?
I wouldn’t like to see him at Hotspur because their midfield is incredibly deep. You want him to compete with Rafael Van Der Vaart for the starting AM position? Not likely that he’d play as often as we’d want. I want him to go to a club where he’ll make an immediate impact.
agreed, he certainly hasn’t showed any signs of age, in fact quite the opposite. he has been sharper and more crisp each year, and he is obviously at his peak. i think he will remain at this level for another 3-4 years barring any injuries, which he has avoided quite well
When Jack Wilshere comes back from injury for Arsenal, the Gunners will have a packed midfield. Rosicky is back in form. Arteta and Song have played outstanding this season. On the wings Oxford-Chamberlain has proved his worth and Walcott has become more consistent. And then there’s Ramsey, Gervinho, plus the possibility of Podolski. Dempsey will be in a dogfight for playing time. I think he can get minutes, but he will have to fight for them like never before.
I agree that moving comes with risk of losing playing time. But Dempsey has been through several regime changes at Fulham that saw him relegated to the bench, and he always forced his way back into the line up. So long as he doesn’t over-step his potential (i.e. moving to Chelsea) I think a move to a stronger team could be very beneficial to him.
I agree with you, if he moves it will break my heart as a Fulham fan and UMNT supporter, and it would be worse to have to root against him because he lands w/ another EPL team.
I’m wondering too what Fulham would do, obviously you can’t replace 22 goals, but they do have young talent.
If they have true Europa or Champions League ambitions they’ll be wise to hang on to him. They’re expanding the Cottage by 5,000 seats and adding suites which means extra revenue to pay higher wage bills. We’ll see.
Also if he goes, Fulham has always had an American play a major role, would they bring in a Holden if Bolton drops? Or maybe a young American looking to jump over like Shea?
Um…
Yawn. I thought the article was weak, Ives. Just being honest. Nothing new that hasn’t been written before either here or elsewhere. I was hoping for some new insight, an exclusive interview, something. Anyway, he’ll definitely jet. I don’t think Chelsea is a reach. Deuce has met every challenge he ever faced. He’s earned his spot in college, at the MLS combine, with the Revs and with ever single coach at Fulham. No reason to think he’s be a bench player at a top 4 team. I think that’s naive. He makes himself indispensable.
I just want to start by saying, Clint Dempsey is the man. To me, he emodies everything I want American soccer to be.
Also, I agree with MemphisRogues, Deuce will have to battle hard to get PT at Arsenal. But that will be the case at any club that is playing UCL football next season.
But battling hard is nothing new for Deuce. He’s had to prove himself to every new manager that has come through Fulham’s revolving door. And I don’t think any of us doubt that, regardless of where he plays next season, Dempsey will find his way onto the pitch.
For anyone who’s interested, this past Monday I wrote a piece on Dempsey’s possible destinations entitled, “Clint Dempsey, An American Badass Who’s Handling Life Up On His Own.” If you click the link under my name and scroll down the page a bit, you can check it out. Thanks.
Spot on. Exactly. Takes about a month for the new managers to understand how important he is to the team. Only one who ever had confidence in Deuce from the start was Cookie..the guy who brought him to the Cottage.
Gooch was a player on the rise whose early career moves were applauded right up until he started grabbing further upward for Newcastle and ACM and his career’s not been the same since, though it’s stabilized in Portugal.
I also see the Ba-Cisse transition at Newcastle as illustrative, you don’t even have to be playing badly to be replaced. He has repeatedly risen back to the top at Fulham but I’m not sure it’s so easy if you move upwards and, say, start fighting Rooney or van Persie or the like for time.
As a Fulham fan I’m probably biased but with an improving team around him I’d argue this is his sweet spot in terms of playing time and ability to produce, from which the USA is benefitting.
I also think the argument that he needs out to get Europe is historically false, how quickly people forget…
I think the Newcastle idea is intriguing. I know there’s no evidence substantiating it but he’d be a great addition to them should they crack the top 4 come season’s end.
Can’t see Adebayor on the club next year due to his wages, and think they’ll go for a striker over an attacking midfielder like Deuce.
Would rather see him land anyplace other than arsenal.
based on the rumors going around, i think Schalke, Arsenal and Valencia should be the only teams in consideration. Malaga, Sevilla, and Roma i would pass on.
“Right now, I’m thinking about Europe and playing in Champions League, and at least experiencing that in my career, being in Champions League,” Dempsey told FOX Soccer a year ago. “That’s a goal. That’s every player’s goal. Every player wants to win trophies and play at the highest level possible.”
Well, almost every soccer player…
I’d require a lengthy set of months of playing and being healthy from Holden (an “O’Brien Period”) before I transfer him in. He has been shut down for the year, appeared in one game this season, before that it was like March 2011, the deJong injury before that….
I know right? If the fee for Torres was worth 5x as much and Deuce scores 5x as many goals as Torres….
10 million.. what a bloody steal… you would think Dempsey would be offended, but no he is a worker. that gets.sh*t.done
I think Wilshere and Ramsey are more like true Midfielders, while Song is somewhat more of a DM that likes to join the attack often. In Wenger’s 4-3-3/4-5-1 this puts the three of them at the holding role, and not competing with Duece for minutes. Theo prob has the right side locked up unless Oxlade-Chamberlain can match him for pace and become more consistent (unlikely). So, assuming RVP has locked down the striker role–Duece would be fighting Gervinho and O-C for a spot on the left, and Arteta and Rosicky for the AM role. Podolski would be pretty good competition though I’m not sure how he fits.
I’m sure his ability to walk on air doesn’t hurt his value either.
I’d like to see him go to a bigger club, but not Arsenal. I’d prefer he left England altogether. I’d love to see him get a crack in Italy or Spain.
I’m sure he knows quality, but he sure doesn’t spend money on it, unless they are aged 18 to 22…
No way Fulham sell him for 10 million. The arses are so cheap. They’ll never get him, but some other smarter club might
Yeah dude, are you saying Dempsey would start ahead of Van Der Vaart? More likely he’d be Van Der Vaart’s sub, since he rarely plays the full 90…
First off, Torres, when not injured, was still a great player and at least twice as good as Dempsey ever will be when he was sold to Chelsea. It’s changed since then, but his transfer fee was obviously not based on his form at Chelsea, since that’s not possible. And second, Dempsey would be worth about 30 million pounds if he was English…
Pretty sure those knee surgeries had a lot to do with the lack of playing time. Maybe AC Milan wouldn’t have worked out regardless, but to say that it was a bad move that de-stabilized his career, without even mentioning the knee injuries, is just insane.
Yes he’s had to prove himself in the past, but that was at clubs where competition isn’t as fierce as at a CL level club…
Not Landon Donovan…
Agreed, I know Ives made the point that this team is not be European material, but I assume he meant UCL. They can still qualify this year for the Europa Leage, although it’s an outside shot. And I would whole heartedly disagree.
This team is much better and plays much more attractive football then the Fulham team that lost to Atletico Madrid in the Europa League FINALS. They beat Hamburg, in Hamburg in the semis, and took down Donetsk the holders, Juventus, Wolfsburg, Roma, etc. along the way.
Give this team a summer to gel under Jol and with the young talent, experienced core of Hangeland/Hughes/Schwarzer/Dempsey/Murphy, skill players like Dembele and Ruiz, good target forwards like Pogrebnyak, it’s certainly possible to get into the top 6. This team is better than Newcastle and, very likely, Liverpool next year if they can keep everyone and have them buy in.
Especially if they improve their road form but that’s for another post.
16 million US dollars is a hefty transfer fee for a player like Dempsey, especially to a club like Fulham that doesn’t often sell sought-after players.
That was also the asking price (10 M GBP ~ 15 M USD) last summer and Arsenal didn’t bite …
I disagree with the twice the player remark. Hard to measure some of that but Dempsey has been fantastic on a plucky but mediocre (as much as a I love Fulham) team. In short, he’s done a lot with a little.
Torres, if memory serves, was showing signs of struggling in the lead-up to being sold and even at the time it was deemed a crazy transfer fee. Further, ESPN stats show that the season before he was sold, he scored one more goal in all competitions than Dempsey has already in this season. His best year was his first in the prem in 07/08 when he scored 31 goals in all competitions. After that it went 22, 23, 13, and 8 for the current season.
(I posted this below before realizing you guys were talking about Newcastle here)
I hope Newcastle gets into the Champions League and buys Dempsey. Why? Newcastle has a strong tradition, a great coach and is striving upward, not trying to hang onto a place in the top tier of the EPL. (Here’s the Guardian on their manager Alan Pardew: link to guardian.co.uk )
Not to mention, I was in Newcastle once as a kid, and as a grownup I love Newcastle Brown Ale.
They aren’t really. I believe that was just one game and it was a bit of a desperation, bunker down move against Man City if I remember correctly.
Dempsey > Van Der Vaart
I am convinced Schalke would be a perfect fit for Dempsey, virtually guaranteed a Champion’s league slot next season. Dutch Coach Huub Stevens has done a great job already in a short time with Schalke. He is tough but likable guy who I think Dempsey would like. Schalke is fairly international for a Bundesliga team, so Dempsy not speaking German is not a problem (Raul spoke no German when he moved to Schalke.) Actually, lot of Spanish speakers on the team Dempsey could speak Spanish with.
Schalke has one of the best stadiums in Europe, Veltins-Arena (opened in 2001, 61,000 capacity, almost always sold out), with a roof that can be closed for bad weather and one of the few in the world with a pitch that can slide outside the stadium during the week for full sunshine to keep it high quality.
Most importantly, the team has lot of talent with the potential to go deep into the Champion’s League next season, but would not swallow up Dempsey and he could expect to be a key player/starter for the next few years.
agreed. when i saw the list of clubs interested in him, Schalke stood out. for one, they were one of three clubs (the others Arsenal and Valencia) who will likely be in the CL. second, Jones is there. third, raul and huntelaar would be a great pairing with deuce. not to mention farfan is likely to leave, so dempsey slides right in.
Dempsey fan first, club fan second….just waiting to see which club I will be supporting next year
I will root for the clubs with the US guys…if Dempsey goes to a new club you can count me in for a new jersey and +1 for TV ratings…..so his transfer fee will practically pay for itself
That being said…its great for the USMNT if we can have a few teams with US players so they have some time playing with each other….so there are a few good options in Germany. BUT having a US player like him on one of the top 4 teams in the EPL…if he can keep doing well….that would be HUGE.
As an Arsenal supporter and huge Dempsey fan, it would be great to see him get a run with the Gunners. Even though Clint consistently leads Fulham in goals scored, Jol was the first manager Dempsey played for at the club who immediately put Clint in the first XI. Wenger spending the cash to bring him in will give Dempsey the benefit of the doubt and he will have the opportunity to show his class in all four competitions Arsenal play in.
Gooners or bust. Else go to Spain, Grmany, or France.
It is always a trade off when you give up security for opportunity. Dempsey has indicated he wants to play Champions League football before he retires. That probably won”t happen at Fulham. Yes, he does face the chance he will ride the pine on a bigger team with more stars, but I believe he can step up his game another notch and not only thrive on a big team but become an important player for that team…aka .. a star. He is probably already a star, the British press just hasn’t given him the hype they do for other players. But when you are FORTH in scoring( and moving up!!) in one of the top leagues in the world, people tend to notice you.
It’s not just Arsenal that has him in the sights, but also Totenham, AC Milan, at least one or two Bundesliga teams, an unnamed Spanish Giant and, if you would believe the British Press yesterday,, Manchester United, who have thrown their hat into the Dempsey ring.
Yes, it’s going to be an interesting summer.
Clint Dempsey should stay at Fulham. While nobody at the club would hold it against him if he leaves, he should stay and become a true club legend. Who knows, there might be another statue of an American at the Cottage by the time he retires.
Coming from a U.S. and Arsenal fan, I can’t see Dempsey fitting in with the Gunners. He’s a scrapper, but technically not up to snuff to play with a top-four club, in my opinion. However, I understand his desire to play Champions League.
Can’t fault the guy for wanting to reach the top level. And maybe he’ll prove me (and others) wrong with a transfer and follow up success. But from my standpoint, he ought to stick it out with Fulham and retire as a club legend. The Cottagers are always bouncing up and down the table, but they’re a solid Europa League team. No shame in that.
Oh man… Just hope he gets playing time wherever he goes, but the atmosphere and the chemistry between Fulham and Dempsey is incomparable.
And also, that would be the first time Fulham will not have an american player on the squad since 2004. The end of an era, my friends.
If I am Fulham…Im selling his stock asap.
Every time Ives posts something about Clint everyone comments about their perception of his lack of ability to gain playing time. It’s ridiculous, Fulham is a top 10 EPL team…easy. That’s a fairly new position for them.
How did such a team rise from the relegation zone to off and on Europa League status? Clint Dempsey. Fulham is on the cusp of becoming the new Arsenal. Look over the last 4 or 5 years and you’ll notice that the only consistent person behind the team is Clint, he has lead the team just about every year in scoring and has to start each season on the bench..until the last season or two. Every time a new manager comes to the Cottage he again has to prove why he is the heart of the team, and every year he is successful.
it would be preposterous to think Clint doesn’t have the ability to shine on any team. He is American and almost every manager puts a tally in the negative column for him, but yet he still earns his spot back in the 11 because the negative column is quite bare in Clint’s case.
You have to remember that Clint hasn’t been a professional for a long time, his age isn’t as much as a factor as it is in other professionals. He only has 8 or 9 professional seasons to his name. Compare him to others with the same experience and clearly you would add him to the top of the talent list.
10 million pounds? That’s a disgrace to the game. Since when did 22+ goals cost 10 million GBP? If Fulham somehow let him go for 10 million GBP, who wouldn’t cough up the cash?
I expect him to leave for somewhere in the 16 million GBP range or stay and continue to help Fulham rise in the ranks, perhaps to a top 5 team.
If Spurs make CL, they’re not shelling out that kind of money for a midfielder who wouldn’t start. They’ll be looking for clear upgrades at the other positions, not in midfield where they’re set.
The Deuce is headed to Arsenal and going to fit in nicely behind VanPersie and clean up anything Van can’t find a way to poke in the net. They’ll dump Chamakaka and Gervin-no-goal for a pound a piece. Surely Deuce can do better then those two clowns(They’re actually great players, they have just blown their chances). Cheers Demps, put a couple more in the back of the net this season and get ready to find a new North London flat.
Umm… who says Arsenal will be playing CL next year?
wenger and Klinsman are good friends. A good word from Klinsi might go a long way.
You kind of make him sound like a pedo. : )
Dempsey to Barcelona!
I’m sorry, but when Torres when playing at his best, he was one of the best strikers in the world. Dempsey will never be one of the best players in the world, no slight to him at all. Dempsey is also older than Torres, so Torres was light years better than Dempsey when they were the same age. There’s nothing wrong with being worse than Torres when he was a goal machine. And also, much of his issues with Liverpool were due to injury…
+1
There are so many things wrong with that post. Fulham is the new Arsenal? Fulham a top 5 team with Dempsey? He’s 29, and has like three years more at the top. I’m not saying he won’t do great a big club, but come on. Top 5? Good lord, are you the same person that said Everton could win the league if Donovan stayed full time?
People forget that after ACM got Gooch in they sat him behind Nesta, giving him 1 sub appearance in their first 10 competitive games. He wasn’t hurt then! He then got hurt in October playing for the US, which I’ve often argued was part wet field part disuse. ACM was the “disuser.”
I think they’re part to blame for his knee — rather than the other way around — so I think it’s illustrative of the risks of getting in over your head.
Similar things have happened to quality players like Beasley, and he in particular has never been the same phenomenon since that Man City/Rangers/etc. running aground. It’s not just a problem for players like EJ or Adu who don’t even get a European toehold, it’s a problem for elite players who suddenly lose PT and perhaps risk injury.
I think it’s a good fan and club atmosphere for him, and I think with the young talent Jol’s bringing in this could be back to the Hodgson years soon, borderline Europa like you’re saying. Like what I see from Progrebnyak.
Murphy has looked awful to me this year, ditto Senderos. Fulham needs to manage the ageing aspect of the team to remain competitive. I think they need some freshening, that the start of the year reflected an old core going over the hill. That does not speak for Dempsey but in order for FFC to stay even where they are they need more Progrebnyaks, in particular defensively. That bunch with Murphy that had the glory years is showing its age.
I agree. He is 29 years old and has guarenteed himself a starting role for the next few years at Craven Cottage with an upper half EPL team. He can make good money with a good club and retire a legend.
I agree Fulham is not the new Arsenal.
Outside of these guys:
Dempsey (out of contract 2013)
Dembele (out of contract 2013)
Ruiz
Hangeland (out of contract 2013)
Diarra
The rest are just overachieving
journeymen players. Schwarzer is 39,
Frei looks promising and still only 18.
Can you elaborate:
“He’s a scrapper, but technically not up to snuff to play with a top-four club, in my opinion.”
What do you think he is missing technically? Finishing? Winning the ball in the 50-50 situation? The air game? Dribbling and getting past defenders? Throw ins?
Scratching my head about this one.
Thats 10 million POUNDS which comes to about $15.9 mil right now. Used to be 2:1 not too long ago so its hard to gauge comparisons between now and a few years ago when the rate was more pro british. It’s historically around 1.5:1 pounds:US dollars. I don’t think any team outside of City or Chelsea in England are just spending freely anymore. I think when it’s all said and done don’t be surprised to see a 15mil pound ($23.86 mil) fee IMO
I would love to see him move to an Italian side. Ride the improved pub from Bradley & leverage it based on this seasons results.
@The Imperative Voice
FWIW, Ba has hardly been replaced at NUFC. The 4-3-3 being employed with Ba-Cisse-HBA has been the best attacking I’ve seen from Newcastle all year. Ba is still playing at a very high level, he’s just not the one slotting home these days.
They’re the hottest team in the Premier League right now, 5 points and 6 goals ahead of Spurs, 5 points and 17 goals ahead of Newcastle. They’ll be playing CL football next year.
exactly how i feel.
I think Dempsey is better than his 22 goals. In the EPL average teams do not always look to win and often Dempsey has had to be a part of a unmotivated attack. If he was with one of the bigger clubs (Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U, or Man City …) and was part of a club that takes the field to win every game and attacks all 90 minutes, who knows how many more goals he could score.
Not technically up to snuff? That’s nuts, his touch and technical skills are fantastic.
At some point you have to take that next step, even if it means risking playing time. Sure he could stick around with Fulham and always play, but as a competitor you always look for the next challenge.
If Dempsey has the chance, he should try to reach the next level with a club qualified for the CL group stage. Who knows ? he could thrive and become an even bigger star. And if he does fizzle, I could see him returning to Fulham in a couple of years time.
Maybe at age 38 or so, return to the USA and dominate MLS.
As a Fulham and Dempsey fan, sadly I must support this version of events. And it’s absolutely maddening every time. I can’t think of any reason other than that he’s American, because he certainly deserves his starting spot. Yet he has to re-prove himself to every new Fulham manager in a way that other players do not. In that sense I have to give credit to Owen Coyle at Bolton, he worked in Holden, but now that he knows Americans can in fact play, he has thrown Ream right into the fire. Things are even worse elsewhere than they are at Fulham. Harry Redknapp simply does NOT trust American field players at all (although of course Tottenham have to be ecstatic with how Brad Friedel has performed for htem), probably because the Americans he saw back in his days with the NASL Seattle Sounders were terrible… it’s not like US players could have improved in the last 30 years right? And what about Aston Villa, it seems like Americans usually get the short end of the stick there as well.
You do remember correctly. He’s a CB, that’s where he’s playing almost all of the time, and that’s where he should continue to play.
Aside from Fulham, I think the following are the best possible fits for Dempsey:
England: Liverpool, Chelsea, Newcastle, Manchester United (not Tottenham and certainly not Arsenal)
Germany: Schalke
Spain: Valencia
Italy: Roma
At first I thought Arsenal would be a bad choice for Dempsey, because of RVP. But, when you think about it, Dempsey is better suited playing behind the striker, so I don’t think he would necessarily have to fight RVP for playing time. More likely he’d have to fight for a midfield spot, but who would go? Arteta? Rosicky? Walcott? Wilshire has hardly played because of injury, but Wenger wouldn’t sell him. Obviously MU, Spurs, Man City, would be bad choices. Though you could argue that City could be without both Balotelli and Tevez after this year. And Spurs could use a striker if they can’t sign Adebayor. Maybe Liverpool would sell Carroll and buy Dempsey?
I like how this entire conversation is based on unfounded rumors. Anyone notice Wenger was not even quoted in the article Ives linked to? It’s all speculation at this point people. Not one source has been cited.
gooch was never good enough. too big, too immobile, poor with his feet. was never gonna work unless he sat and learned. plus he got hurt. he was out of his depth from the beginning.