With Portland and Vancouver set to join MLS in 2011, and Montreal preparing to be announced as team 19, we are moving ever closer to that magic number of 20 MLS teams.
Our question to you this morning is a simple one. Which city do you think should be awarded the 20th MLS franchise? Should it be in the Southeast, where no team currently resides, or should New York get a second team? Love the idea of a team in Las Vegas, or is sunny San Diego a better destination?
Cast your vote here:
Which city did you pick? Which city do you think would be the worst pick?
Share your thoughts below.
Detroit
Gotta see what each of em have to offer before i vote
Baltimore – because DC United will move here and re-brand when they get a stadium south of M&T.
glad to see Montreals getting a team tho, its going to be nuts for derby games between TFC and Montreal scum
St. Louis I guess, surely Charlotte and Vegas are not in the running. Charlotte can’t support an NBA team and Raleigh can’t support an NHL team…
Minneapolis!
MLS needs to find a way to get down here south Florida. There are way too many soccer fans here.
Ok, can we get Atlanta,St. Louis,Miami, and a second NY team in the league before we add another Canadian team? Seriously.
St. Louis. Have you seen how nuts the soccer community is there for AC St. Louis? That could be translatable for an MLS team there.
And, if anybody thnks the MLS can work in Atlanta, two words: Atlanta Chiefs. Nobody cared about soccer much then, and they still don’t now, even with significant demographical changes there.
I’d like to see St Louis for #20. Both the southeast and southwest could really use some more teams but I wouldn’t mind seeing them come in together. So maybe 21 & 22 are Atlanta and Miami and 23 & 24 are Phoenix and San Diego or something like that. But I think 20 top level teams is stretching the current US talent pool a little already.
Nashville. Music City FC!
Odgenville or North Haverbrook.
Yea St Louis and Miami should be next. Miami/Ft. Laud has huge market of soccer fans. You can give me all the excuses why it wont work; but the fans are here.
Agree! That’s why I voted for Miami
Living in NW NC, I’d have to go with Charlotte. There’s absolutely NOTHING for soccer fans around here in hundreds of miles.
I’m German and used to play soccer in a club for over 10 years when I lived there and I’ve missed it ever since I moved here. Watching soccer on TV is all I have, would love to drive down to Charlotte occasionally and see some live soccer, even if it’s just MLS, heh.
Montreal will be BRILLIANT for the league though, guarantee they are profitable within the first 3 years if not right away. Vancouver was the questionable one.
I think Charlotte has the ability to support pro teams, it just depends on the ownership. The town loves the NFL Panthers and they sell out every game every year. The old Hornets set NBA attendance records and were in the top 5 in attendance for a decade straight. The Bobcats suffered from an embittered fan base and poor ownership.
I’m not positive an MLS team would be successful, but I think it has much more to do with the ownership group than Charlotte’s ability to support a team, of which it is more than capable.
If those cities had investors, existing fan bases, the way Vancouver and Montreal do then I think that would be an easy choice.
As it stands, adding another Canadian team just means more money for the league. Which in turn will make it easier to bring in any of the above.
I don’t see it as either or … but why not do both?
NY’s second team should be upstate.
Ottawa or Montreal
both have Monorail service straight to the stadiums
St. Louis is one of the historic soccer hotbeds in the US. One only needs to look at the success of Seattle and Portand to see what happens when MLS taps into such a region. It would be a disgrace if St. Louis does not get an MLS club (I’m born and raised in CA)
Minneapolis would be a great choice. There and St.L are two other places I see supporting a MLS franchise.
St. Louis and Detroit would be idiocy…no money, people moving away from each with regularity…you might as well put the team in Buffalo.
You will never be seen as a national league unless you include the one region you’ve ignored – the Southeast.
It has to be Atlanta. It’s the #8 TV market, and it is the only 1 in the Top 10 that doesn’t have a team.
There are great youth leagues, high school programs, and numerous bars that fill up on Saturdays to watch Pro Matches. 50,000+ fans showed up twice, within a few weeks of each other, last Summer to watch matches at the GA Dome.
I know – many factors – can they get a stadium built? Who will own it? Etc., etc. But if MLS goes somewhere else, they are missing a huge opportunity.
Atlanta has not stopped growing…any of the other candidate cities listed are either way behind, or in decline.
Anywhere BUT that is EAST of the Mississippi. Too many West coast teams already.
You’ve had your chance a few times.
the next one should be St. louis hands down. they r closer than any other team in this list and already have a team in a good fan base. Miami i dont think have a team anymore and dont have ownership but do have fans and thats it.
What about giving San Antonio another try? 1.5 million metro population, largely Hispanic, only one professional team.
You’ve gotta stop this league at 24, not 20. Three divisions of 8 teams, West, Central, and East… 3 division winners make the playoffs and next 5 wild cards… home and away with 7 conference teams, one match against 16 other teams, 30 game season.
St. Louis has to be the 20th, with Miami, Atlanta, NY, and one more (San Fran? Vegas?) filling the league out. Our country’s just too large to stop at 20.
true i think we fillied up the map already in the west
St. Louis or Atlanta
I was in Vegas during last summer and temperatures were averaging 110 F during the day and 90 F at night. There is no way you can play in that type of heat.
I think it really boils down to whether or not MLS is trying to be an actual national league, with fans able to identify with a team in their region, or if they are simply giving the team to areas that have produced talent throughout the years. I certainly think St. Louis is deserving, but with teams in Kansas City and Chicago already I think MLS would make a mistake placing another midwest team before addressing an area of the country that also produces a number of quality players and is currently alienating soccer fans.
By the way, I think that the entire league the Chiefs played in folded. Maybe people didn’t care much in the 60′s and 70′s, but Atlanta is a completely different city now than it was then. People have and will support the Silverbacks and with Arthur Blank’s money people will support an Atlanta MLS team. The city itself has everything that any other MLS city does. I’m just tired of not really caring about MLS because there’s no team close enough for me to go see.
Buffalo?
The Chiefs? You’re basing this on 35 years ago?
What about the 50,000 fans that showed up to watch AC Milan and Club America last summer? They didn’t care?
There are several-hundred thousand hispanics that live here, tens of thousands Africans, and several-hundred thousand kids who grew up playing the sport here. That has ALL changed since the mid-70s.
You are wrong, wrong, wrong.
Portland hasn’t started playing yet, so I don’t know how you can claim success there.
Seattle is a growing, affluent city…St. Louis is a shrinking, blue collar, city. Not even remotely the same. I could care less what it was like in the first half of last century. It is not a “soccer hotbed” now.
This comes straight from a marketing standpoint. I always felt the league would get stronger the faster they built true rivalrys that could travel to each other. Basically to get the “English” feel. With that all said, and up front I’m a Chicago Fire fan, I would love to see St. Louis and Milwaukee get teams. The fire already have fans that travel well, if there was a team in either of these cities, an INSTANT rival would be born. Milwaukee especially, being only an hour away. Both games, would soon be a hot ticket and sellouts would follow.
If these model could be adopted and regions focused on I think fan excitement would build faster towards the league….
Indianapolis! Home of Carmel United. We would have a great fan base and stadium to play in.
The people have spoken, but we all know it’s the Benjamin’s that do the talking.
Though I reside out West now the South will always be home. So naturally my vote went to Atlanta. I would love to see a legit effort to develop and promote a new franchise there. The city is great. The culture is there and players would love to be there. I say all this but I still have my reservations if a MLS team could work. Despite the success of the Braves and the mediocrity of the other pro teams in ATL it’s so damn hard to break into the fanatism of GT and UGA football. In all honesty St. Louis has deserved a team and the success of AC St. Louis will guage if they can come into MLS:
The Silverbacks still drew decent crowds…and they had ZERO marketing push. Both of their stadium locations were horrible and in run down parts of town…and people still showed up.
Put a stadium in North Fulton County, where people from East Cobb, Gwinnett, Forsyth, and Cherokee can all reach easily and you’ll pack them in!
The roadtripper in me is hoping for either Las Vegas or Miami but it’s going to St. Louis for sure…
Rochester has a NASL/USSF team, and a soccer specific stadium. though the investor/owners have been horrid. Back in the day they were really good in the USL and could hang with the best of MLS.
The location would be good too since they could pull fans from both Buffalo and Syracuse without intruding to much on TFC & Red Bull
yes because Montreal can get 50k out to CCL games and has large regular support as well as can provide more coverage to national television in canada. Can those other cities promise the same thing? Stop singing this song, its over and done with and was a great move
So, white people don’t like soccer?
Sninho, unfortunately for you Atlanta has shown itself to be the least dedicated sports town in America. Braves playoff games repeatedly do not sell out. Hawks playoff games do not sell out. Plus, Atlanta is HOT as hell in the summer which has been a big problem for the former Florida franchises and Dallas. Surprising that people don’t want to sit outisde in 100 degree weather.
St. Louis is the obvious choice. It has repeatedly produced some of the best soccer talent this country has to offer. The fans are dedicated to their teams. And in contrast to what another poster wrote, I think it’s proximity to KC is a positive to that franchise and to the league.
The Southeast has done nothing to prove it deserves a team.
And capturing the hispanic audience has worked SO well for existing MLS teams…
Raliegh you can draw from all of NC plus the Richmond VA area…plus it’s a big college down surrounded by a lot of quality college teams, both male and female. It would be eay to fill 20-25K
Belmar, NJ
Agreed. There are several worthy candidates on the list, but whoever is chosen has to have the right organization and facilities in place, or at least in the pipeline.
St. Louis or Phoenix; travel works out well, they have a few natural regional rivals, they both have soccer-positive populations, and both have enough flat land to pop a stadium right out.
You forgot about Brockway.
As a Fire fan as well, I couldn’t agree anymore especially with Milwaukee.
Well said man. This is AMERICA’s domestic league after all ;]
just in case anyone forgot.
It baffles me that so many folks oppose Montreal — this is a business, and the Montreal Impact are a surefire financial success. You want more teams in the US? Fine. You need a strong MLS for that, and adding the Impact makes MLS stronger. It’s that simple.
As far as #20, I think the league does need to begin building a footprint in the Southeast (& that’s no disrespect to St Louis, Minneapolis, San Diego, or several other cities that I think would be successful markets). As a former resident of both North Carolina & Georgia (now a Revs season ticket holder in Boston), I lean toward Raleigh-Durham over Charlotte or Atlanta, based on my experience with each area’s sports teams & fan support. No support for the NHL Hurricanes? Not in the packed, screaming loud arena I went to…. the Thrashers, on the other hand, make me worry about ATL’s potential, despite the overall size of that market. I volunteered for three years with the WUSA Courage, and given the support they got, against the odds, I’d pick the Triangle out of this bunch….
Thank you for making this about race….. (not you Steve, I’m talking about The Gentleman Masher)…I mean race aside, I’m white, and I’d be at every singly match if we got an Atlanta team. Call me crazy, but other white people like myself might show up too!
After living in the triangle from 2004-2006, I voted for other–meaning Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill. A smaller area population wise, but certainly an area that loves soccer. Used to go to the UNC women’s games and they drew really well. Don’t buy the argument that they are disqualified because they don’t support hockey. Nobody grows up playing hockey in NC. The goal instead is to draw the folks who sell out Cameron, the Smith Center, and the NC State area for bball in the wintertime. Also, NC is a hotbed for immigration from Mexico. (I’m from Cali and now live in Seattle, so this is not some hometown bias). Build a real stadium in Cary and I think they’d draw 15k-20k regularly.
People aren’t opposed to Montreal. The whole premise of this discussion is the assumption that Montreal gets the 19th team.
The Southeast could use “more teams?” How about ONE team?! Ugh. This is my last complaining post about the South not having a team.
Montreal – 2012 (Done Deal)
STL – 2013 (Need that long to get financing together, have stadium land and plans)
Atlanta – 2014 (Investor but need to get better organized)
Chivas USA relocate to San Diego – 2014
NYC – 2015 (Stadium approval first, MLS franchise 2nd; stadium approval will take forever)
TOTAL – 22 MLS Teams
NASL/USL exp.: San Antonio, Birmingham, Ottawa…
Yeah forget about Las Vegas. That’s a dumb idea. St. Louis should get the team. Montreal will be a success.
St. Louis makes the most sense. Natural rivalry with KC, drive-able to Chicago and Columbus. Being a Chicago fan I’d love to show that Chi-town is better than the STL.
Mark – Soccer fans are not baseball fans…Braves attendance and MLS attendance are unrelated.
Hawks playoffs games do sell out…don’t know where you made that up.
Regardless – St. Louis also HAS NOT repeatedly produced the best soccer talent. St. Louis University…a small, Catholic, school in St. Louis has. Name one other native that isn’t in their 80s and isn’t named Steve Ralston.
Still…managing to get the two tired stereotypes about St. Louis being some soccer mecca, and Atlanta being a bad sports town into the same post…nice work!
Why not use the final two spots to establish the concept of promotion and relegation. Create a playoff to decide who gets the spots, but then institute a system whereby the bottom two teams are relegated provided that there are two teams that fulfill certain requirements regarding their stadium, revenue, payroll, etc.?
It will never happen, but a guy can dream, can’t he?
Agreed. We filled up the NORTH of the map too (Canada) but that’s just my opinion
The Northeast may seem well covered, but I can’t help thinking that the league still needs a team in NYC. I know there’s a stadium that is PATH accessible, but there are a lot of immigrants who would support an NYC team that wouldn’t travel to NJ. The only real consideration here is whether a stadium for a new team in Queens would hurt or help NYRB. I think San Diego could use a team, but moving Chivas makes more sense than expansion there. St. Louis is a sentimental favorite, but it’s a small market and the planned suburban venue is not that far from the Fire’s own stadium.
Its very simple and everyone on her should just stop commenting, it has to be St Louis because they are the only area with a willing ownership group. Its not about location or what is best, its only about money and ownership and until you have that combination there will be no team. St Louis is the only market remotely close to achieving this.
Hell yeah man, you’re my hero. Atlanta FC, here we come!
A team in Queens would add a great rivalry for NY and draw tons of support. But St. Louis or another city should get a team first. Maybe Queens as a 21st, 22nd team.
Jon, you skinny bastard, I couldn’t agree more. Bring on a Milwaukee team and it will be an instant rivalry. We would travel up there in hoards.
idjit
Chivas USA re-brand and move to San Diego. Play at Qualcomm
And what an opinion it is!
Agree. It’s also close to Chicago and Columbus. Imagine MLS in Milwaukee, Chicago, Indy, Columbus, KC, and St. Louis. Wow.
Zach – you didn’t bother to read this part:
“Several-hundred thousand kids who grew up playing the sport here.”
I guess that’s the white people, if you want. I’m 31, and I started playing soccer when I was 6…
My point is primarily that Atlanta isn’t entirely composed of Southern College Football fans…although there are alot! It’s a diverse city with sports fans of all interests and backgrounds.
Well said. Very profound.
Baltimore, they already have a USL team with a sister English soccer team support, the city already is looking to build a soccer specific stadium and have paid for the studies to be made something certain mls teams nearby have not really done, they have fans.
I definitely agree with you man, I just wanted to point out that we have white people too! But yeah youth soccer is HUGE in the suburban Atlanta area. A lot of 16-25 year olds would be very very supportive (i.e. attend) games regularly if MLS gave Atlanta a team.
Not entirely accurate. True, the Wilpons are struggling since the Madoff scandal, but they might jump back in the fray. Plus, MLS is trying to interest foreign teams to invest. What location would be more attractive for a big European team than New York City? All MLS has to do is say yes to NYC and an ownership group would be there — with a fine location in Queens that is highway, subway and commuter-rail accessible.
I think the population in Minneapolis/St. Paul would be quick to embrace a soccer team.
1000 votes in a matter of minutes and STL hold 40% of them. Looks like we overwhelmingly want STL to be #20. Hear that Don?
As someone who has lived all over the state of Florida…Florida does not make sense. Florida has WAY too much to do on a beautiful Saturday afternoon in the summer especially if you are in a major city. The casual fan just wouldn’t go. Put this team in a blue collar city that has a tradition of fanaticsm and it will blossom. Long term Atlanta makes sense, short term give it to St. Louis or some place like Indianapolis.
B’more or St. Lous. I don’t think there are any other options. Both cities are soccer crazy with great traditions and natural player pools. B’more would only add more to the Northeast rivalries which will really heat up now the Philly is around as the bridge between DC and NY/NJ/New England. St. Louis really speaks for itself and would be the best place in my opinion. Natural rival for the Fire, and St. Louis is second to none as a soccer hot bed in the production of talent. So I’d be happy with either one but St. Louis is more likely because of the work they have already done.
I completely agree with you. I’ve lived in Charlotte for twelve years and we can definitely support teams. As a city, we voted down the publicly financed basketball arena and still have bad tastes in our mouths from George Shinn (Hornets owner). That, combined with the high prices (and let’s face it, the NBA is boring) is why the Bobcats aren’t supported. Most people that live in Charlotte, aren’t from here, so a lot of people have allegiances to major sports teams when they move here. That is why I think soccer could work in Charlotte. Fans generally don’t have allegiances to MLS teams so someone who moved their family here from the north could easily adopt a Charlotte team as their own.
Okay, what’s MLS’ motivation for putting teams in Canada besides MONEY? Please answer that for me. Is MLS just a big brother looking to help out our neighbors to the North? Nah, we knew Toronto would have good attendance…so we gave them a team. Same with Vancouver, so we’re giving them a team.
You tell me the motivation besides money? If Canada had like 10 more cities that could draw as well as Toronto has done, they’d start their own league now wouldn’t they?
Meanwhile markets like Atlanta, St. Louis, New Orleans (maybe) are missing out on getting a team because we’re giving them to Canada!! In America’s league. Understand why people are upset now? Probably not.
I’d be at the games in ATL also. In fact I think many people would be there. I don’t see a problem with getting 15000 fans a game.
Plus we have 2 stadiums already built (would need to add some seats) but options are there.
Silverbacks park-would need a grass field (hate playing on the turf) and they would need to complete it to the 15000 capacity (20000 with temp seating.)
The new stadium in Kennesaw for the Beat–only 8500 so would need to double (don’t know if it can.)
I want the NY Cosmos to return via the Paul Kemsley rumors, but anything but Las Vegas and Charlotte would satisfy me.
Like many people have said before, San Diego really shouldn’t be an expansion, but rather a relocation of Chivas. Phoenix could potentially but that relocation as well.
In terms of who really deserves the 20th franchise, well I really can’t say until we see full expansion bids. A city can have all the soccer passion in the world, but if you can’t build a stadium or get enough funding, then you jeopardize the league.
It’s no hotter than LA during the summer and thanks for straight up making up your “facts.” Good thing you’re not on the decision committee
24 teams in the end…..St Louis, Florida, San Diego, BC, and NY2 (most likely cosmos) to be added within a decade……The Triangle (NC) area would be cool though
I picked St. Louis. Atlanta and Phoenix would be tied for worst pick. Atlanta is like an armpit in the summer and Phoenix is like having a blow dryer aimed at your face.
Gentle MAsher–Atl has 2 stadiums. The new one for the Beat (only 8500…don’t know if can expand???) and the Silverbacks Park (designed to be expandable up to 20000–and better location.)
I’m from Madison and would travel to Milwaukee in a heartbeat if we had a MLS team there. (I know we have indoor in MKE, but i’m not too interested in that)
The English League is ENGLAND’s domestic league – doesn’t stop Welsh teams like Cardiff competing in it.
Yeah I’m not sure which option Atlanta would take for which stadium to use, but I’d say that it would have to be somewhere in the suburbs. Kennesaw, Marietta, somewhere like that. It would be Atlanta’s team in name only, we’d have to play in a suburb because heaven forbid they try to stick the team in the Georgia Dome. I doubt that would even be allowed anyway.
I like it.
StL vs Chi
Mont vs Toronto
NY vs NY
I would throw LA vs Chivas but that doesn’t even sell out a playoff game yet.
Montreal, Bring back the Manic name !!!!
#20 should obviously go to Omaha.
Gotta vote San Diego. Was a kid there and cheered on the Sockers (Julie Veee and Alan Mayer FTW!); played in the local leagues and stupidly turned down a chance to play with the Nomads before moving. Good soccer tradition going back a long way, and not too brutally hot during the summer months.
Playing a summer schedule in Vegas, Phoenix, even Atlanta? Craziness. My second choice would be St Louis.
St. Louis for me – Historically rich in US soccer lore, great fanbase already there, and it seems determined support from the “higher ups.”
The real question is: What happens after we get our 20? Does the league just expand to 22, 24 – 30? Or do we start seeing a system of moving teams around in divisions. I think exceeding 20 teams is a bit much and ensures you don’t get the home and away games you need to build relations with other teams (good and bad).
However, there are enough regions and states in the US (and Canada I suppose) where you can afford to bring in 10 more teams within the next 5-7 years given the right amount of growth within the league, demand, and proof of others’ success.
That’s all well and good, but does not translate to success. Just because one community may be more affluent than another doesn’t equate to anything.
There is a stronger fanbase in other areas than Atlanta and the South, it’s obvious. STL is having a tough go w/AB and a few other corporations, but it’s mostly flight into the suburbs, not completely leaving the area. All those soccer families are still here.
STL has something Atlanta never could, and that’s history. Soccer is ingrained into the history of the area, and that’s something that can be bought.
Ottawa.
Nashville! for shure!
Another vote for Minneapolis! Anyone millionaires looking to step up and invest in a team/stadium?
It has to be St. Louis. Although they need to make it actually in St. Louis (not Collinsville-that should be a non-starter). Miami or Atlanta (or both eventually) surely make sense as well at some point but they’re next in line. I’d even put Minneapolis-St.Paul above them though because soccer is tough sport to play in the SW heat. Of course St. Louis is not much better in the summer so I suppose the weather isn’t a factor.
This is by far my favorite post of this thread–i love the plan. Takes into consideration the country’s size, builds rivalries, lays out a plan for scheduling…well done.
Would love a team here in Charlotte. I think with the right ownership group it could work here. Doesn’t necessarily translate to MLS attendance but tonight Mexico is playing Iceland at BankofAmerica Stadium. They are expecting close to 70k.
I’d keep it at the Sliverbacks Park. The base is there and it’s an easy drive down 85 for the Gwinnett people, easy drive from East ATL (Stone Moutain, Tucker) Easy drive from downtown plus MArta stops right on the other side of 285, the Marietta/Cobb people can get there easy. It really only causes trouble for South Atlanta (past the airport–though with Marta???),Douglasville out West (again–stop at the MArta station and ride???) and the Kennesaw area.
The original plan for Remax included the ability to inrease seating in the south end and norht end… you can easily have 15K by the first season…the real issue I see is the parking… it is a 1 way in, 1 way out bottleneck if not controlled… and yes indeed, the turf needs to go… I play on it weekly and it is bad shape.
STL all the way! Anybody see the Miracle Match? ’nuff said!
If MLS has learned anything over the last few years its that teams with urban stadiums in cities with young, diverse populations do the best. So wherever they go, this needs to be the case.
It seems pretty close to a sure thing.
Don’t worry about more teams in Canada after that. The whole reason we need MLS is that the soccer market outside of those three cities drastically drops off.
I wouldn’t even favor expanding to another Canadian city after this… as I doubt it would be successful.
The league will not stop at 20 teams. There will be 24 teams spread across the US and Canada. If the Championship can have 24 teams, why can’t the MLS? It even works with the stupid two conferences, you could play each of the 11 other teams in your conference home and away and the 12 teams in the other conference once each for a 34 game season.
Garber will make it happen as the $40 Million per franchise fee is what is floating this league.
St. Louis for sure for #20. I’d like to see Chivas USA move to San Diego.
I understand certain regions wanting to be represented, but what’s the chance of success? Florida already imploded, and the South is NFL/SEC country. Nothing wrong with it, but any other organization struggles. Especially hockey, which would be a good idea of how MLS would fair there as a niche sport.
It makes a lot of sense for St. Louis (obviously I’m 100% biased) on multiple fronts. The natural rivalries with Chicago and KC would be easy appeal. KC could probably use the I-70 rivalry more in MLS than NFL or MLB, and the two cities really get up to go at each other in any way possible.
I don’t know how successful the ACSTL experiment will be in the NASL. Obviously I hope it’s great and I think a good grass roots support will be there, but over the long haul any success would be a derivative of the promise of MLS coming to town. It would be a good time to capitalize on St. Louis sooner than later while the Rams are pathetic and the Blues continue to blow it. The best thing to add legitimacy to the ACSTL project would be an MLS bid…but that is not likely soon I don’t think.
Actually, in a 24 team league the Conferences would make sense for the first time as you could keep home and way games with your geographic rivals. I posted about it further down, just check that out.
A littl help–Where would St. Louis put their stadium? I recall an early plan was in Ilinois. will the new plan call for a more central location??
Don’t worry, Chivas will be there in four years time.
I just won the lottery and would love to!!!
Seriously though, there’s a large population in the twin cities as well as many many college students that have an interest in soccer.
St Louis. Strong soccer community and it creates a nice set of teams in Chicago, KC and St Louis. Great rivalries within easy driving distance.
Eh whatever. A ridiculous amount of Canadians live nearly in America as close to the border as they are.
Canada is America’s hat.
Yeah Minneapolis!
If the Twin Cities did get a soccer team, they’d have to play at a good location (i.e., not Blaine, not Bloomington). I think putting a soccer stadium across the Mississippi from downtown St. Paul–maybe Harriet Island area–would be a great place. It’s a beautiful area and there’s a decent latino population nearby.
Unfortunately, between the Gophers, Twins, and Vikings, I think the Twin Cities is stadiumed out, which means the team will be playing in the suburbs somewhere.
*can’t be bought.
Well, I think you have your facts wrong there. Let’s start a list:
Taylor Twellman
Brad Davis
Tim Ream
Pat Noonan
Brian McBride – played youth ball
Jack Jewsbery
There are a lot…
Chris Klein, Pat Noonan, Taylor Twellman, Brad Davis, Jack Jewsbury…not the best but not bad.
And get your facts straight, it’s not just SLU. Some of the best youth clubs in the country.
On top of the Braves and Hawks, there’s the Thrashers as well that struggle.
LOL, if the team were in Buffalo it would be great, because much like the Sabres, it’d be former Toronto fans that don’t want to pay for over-inflated tickets and see a better quality team at the same time!
You’d probably bankrupt most interested owners the first time they’re relegated unfortunately. We can dream though.
The Red Bulls already have Philly and DC to have as close rivals. The fan base in the NY/NJ area is big enough to support 2 teams.
i’m a little bit the same- would love to see the south better represented. but anybody who tries to deny the hate by pointy football fans and media are deluded. someone else talked about cities that ‘deserve’ a team, or have a history of producing great players and St Louis is certainly that, but it’s all about success going forward: a stadium, a business plan, a fan base, and natural rivalry would help. is pujols still involved in a possible St Louis bid?
What about a team in a sizeable market with an ownership group that has proven success in running an NBA, AHL, and WNBA team…? What about putting a team into a 23,000 seat stadium in the center of the 7th largest city in America that is currently used for soccer and is one renovation away from top-level MLS readiness?
San Antonio, people…
Read the article, believe the hype…
link to mysanantonio.com
and to kptx…
i also want to add that the Carolinas produce good soccer talent thru college and USL. And the weather is generally pretty nice there.
Sorry Zach but:
“It’s no hotter than LA during the summer and thanks for straight up making up your ‘facts.’”
Is way wrong. See:
link to weather.com
Vs.
link to weather.com
And that isn’t even factoring humidity which makes a big difference.
Masher: “Soccer fans are not baseball fans…Braves attendance and MLS attendance are unrelated.” But what facts have you to prove that this is the case for Atlanta? Since MLS clearly doesn’t exist in Atlanta you asserting conjecture.
“Regardless – St. Louis also HAS NOT repeatedly produced the best soccer talent. St. Louis University…a small, Catholic, school in St. Louis has.”
-I’m in D.C. but I’ll tell you their high schools SLU High, C.B.C. and DeSmet regularly churn out the best high school teams in the country. SLUniversity is not exactly small with 13000 students for a private school but I suppose that’s relative and entirely impertinent.
“Name one other native that isn’t in their 80s and isn’t named Steve Ralston.”
-Frank Simek. Taylor Twellman. Brad Davis. I could go on and those are just the guys from this cycle. McBride went to St. Louis University.
Montreal ! Bring back the Manic name !!!
It doesn’t matter what we think it should be… What matters is what Beckham thinks the next team should be. And in that I see the potential of it being most likely in either Miami, or NYC2. However, I feel Miami may have a better chance.
I like keeping it at 20 teams for a while. The league wouldn’t dilute the talent pool and some weaker teams could be relocated to better markets.
Anheuser Busch donated Soccer Park to the ownership group. It’s located in Fenton, MO which is easily accessible to the city (and conveniently to all the soccer minivans from the burbs).
They’d be able to do a lot with it given the chance, but obviously right now kind of sitting on their hands waiting. Pujols was in line if they got MLS to be an investor as well.
How about the Detroit Tropics?
can someone please explain to me how exactly we know that STL already has a great fan base? There was a Superliga game on a beautiful Saturday there last summer and 2,000 people showed up, if that.
So you also think Detroit?
HELL Yes! Bring it to The D!
Geography lesson: Chicago to St. Louis is a 5 hour drive. How is that “not that far from the Fire’s own stadium”
The clear favorite is St. Louis, which I voted for as well. Old Salts know – in the darkest days of Mordor, as we awaited the darkest of them all……
….there were two places in the US that generated the Lion’s share of US Nat team players, and genuine European professional prospects – where public HS soccer was scintillating. Central New Jersey, and the St. Louis / St. Charles area.
Honor the roots of our faith.
San Diego would be a terrible place for a team. MLS is looking for passionate fans, and urban stadia. You don’t get that in laid-back Cali (ditto Florida), and there is no urban, it’s just massive sprawl.
Either give it to StL (a city with actual soccer history), or a real NY team to bring some more rivalries to the East.
Stay out of the South, what’s the point? College football is king, not too much population or money down there, and soccer will just be laughed at as some liberal-sissy sport.
i hope you’re not actually driving
A few thoughts:
- Chivas’ owner has indicated in the past that Chivas is NOT looking at San Diego as a place to relocate. For (1) LA is the central cultural and demographic mecca for the Mexican-American population in the US and (2) LA is a bigger media market than San Diego (the same reason the Clippers aren’t going back to San Diego).
- If MLS is supposed to represent two countries totaling well over 300 million people in the richest sports market in the world then 20 teams is simply not going to be enough as the sport and the league grows. I know the argument for keeping the 20 team format (home and away format for 38 games) but this is going to prove cumbersome over the long haul and vast swaths of tens of millions of people, especially in the Southeast and Southwest US, who could be potential fans will be left out. Yes, not every city deserves a team just because they’re a large market but there must be some kind of compromise with FIFA, right? At least until the secondary professional leagues mature and provide a real outlet for promotion/relegation.
- In the meantime Atlanta doesn’t make sense without a corresponding driveable market like Charlotte, Raleigh/Durham, or even Tampa or New Orleans to generate a true rivalry. Geographic continuity is essential, even if large regions of the country are not covered right now as a result. Isolated markets are a financial death drain on the league.
- As a DCU fan it sickens me to see the never-ending saga with the new stadium but a move to Baltimore and rebranding might actually make sense if a new stadium actually gets built over there. If DC’s stadium issues drag on for years to come it will be in the league’s best interests to cut ties and persue their interests where they’re wanted. Maybe THEN D.C. officials will understand what they’ve lost when it’s gone and an organic lower-level DC franchise with committed local owners can grow in its place.
Plus – also installing a highspeed line between Chicago and STL and improving the one in between KC and STL. Plus Megabus, there are cheap options readily available for those looking to enjoy themselves on the trip.
Honestly, none of these markets look like smart investments (except maybe St. Louis). I’d rather see the league play it safe, focus on existing franchises, and avoid diluting the talent pool before planning expansions beyond those already laid out.
Atlanta and Miami’s fanbases are historic letdowns though their potential markets make them tempting. Las Vegas and Charlotte, though? No chance.
FC New Paltz
STL for sure. No question.
Sacramento. It has a vibrant downtown area with room for a stadium and a sports-starved population.
I disagree. The demographics of the west coast make it easier to have soccer teams. Why do you think there are too many?
I disagree with the premise here – that MLS will stop at 20 – or the “magic number” as the writer states. Someday (and hopefully soon) the American soccer culture is going to grow out of this British poser identity. England has 20 clubs in the Premiership, so that’s why we should? England is smaller than Arkansas.
As the economics of this game grows, virtually every one of the top 40 markets is going to be eligible to field a club that can put 20,000 people in the stands. I think it is quite likely MLS continues to grow-and grow- and grow as the years go on – and probable “stops” around 32.
Most of these cities listed will have MLS teams eventually. The 20th franchise should go to an ownership group that can get a stadium built, and finance the ramp up period. Simple as that.
Picture this:
Two Tables, 20-15 teams each, 30-40 total clubs from cities all over the country with plenty local rivalries too.
Promotion/Relegation into top flight division. Two teams drop, top regular season club from second division is promoted with next four having playoff for the second promotion spot.
With games in nearly every local market across country you could expand TV contracts and have more money to pay players and develop new talent.
Increased talent and player developmnet spills over to National team player pool. We kick azz in WC 2018 or 2022, one of which will be held in the States. I can’t wait, can you? Then why do accept slow growth and mediocratiy. I want it now.
Though St louis is the favorite. Baltimore is the most logical.
1) they ALREADY have a foreign club that works with them through their usl team
2) The city wants them and ALREADY have been planning for a stadium
3)They have FANS fill m&T bank stadium at chelsea and ac milan game
4) They have many youth teams that have been successful and are built for youth soccer development. Also Chelsea helps sponsor the highly successful baltimore bays youth team.
5)Would only add to the rivalry on the eastern seaboard
every successful professional sport in the US has two teams in the NYC area…. if the red bulls find success with the new arena the probability of a new team in ny only increases. i dream of hitting the lottery and trying to put a team in the poughkeepsie area haha
Houston is no better than Atlanta for summer weather.
A man after my own heart!
Although so many despise the conference style, I think it is best for the US for competition, traveling, and scheduling.
Furthermore, it can build into it other tournaments like the Open Cup and the CCL.
Ultimately MLS will go with the team with the best financial backing regardless of where it is. I really wish Aurther Blank in Atlanta would take a big step out and make a serious bid for a team with a plan for a stadium and a good marketing plan.
If they were to build a stadium in Atlanta, they will have to give it a cover for the stands to give shade during the hot summer, and play a lot of night games.
FOR THE 3920893082907TH TIME, ST. LOUIS!!!!!!!!
Bingo.
Periodically, I jokingly suggest MLS go over to a city-sharing scheme. This would let the league move towards a schedule that’s more in line with most other countries. Warm weather cities like Atlanta and Phoenix, maybe San Diego, cities in Florida, perhaps Birmingham, New Orleans could host teams for a couple of months. Then we could skip the worst heat in the summer, too. Of course, that’s when MLS gets its biggest crowds….
Sorry Drew – you are dreaming.
Indy would make a good USL market.
wont happen.
are there any regulations on the amount of teams you can have? i always figured the league would get to 30-32 teams eventually like the NFL, NBA, or MLB.
More teams teams -> more tv airtime -> more revenue -> better players -> better league
If Baltimore were all that logical DC United would be more enthusiastic about the city’s efforts to lure them there.
It just hasn’t been done right. Dallas put a stadium on the far north-white-suburban part dallas for example. I think early on MLS just thought “oh, if we build it they will come” and didn’t put in the active effort to approach the latino audience. I like what Chivas USA has been trying to do the last few years though.
Charlotte has a decent pro soccer history, too. (See: Carolina Lightnin’)
haha
haha
haha
It has to be Atlanta. People go on about how “Atlanta couldn’t support a team”, but consider that Atlanta is essentially the heart of the Southeast. It’s located almost dead center of the region. Much like the Braves, if you put a soccer team in Atlanta, people will flock from ALL OVER the Southeast to see them.
I live in Tennessee, and I would gladly make a 3 1/2 hour drive every few weeks or so to see a team in Atlanta.
Like a lot of midnight games
Er, why would Charlotte fail to “satisfy” you?
I think the bigger concern about Atlanta is about 4 months of relentless heat and humidity.
lmfao!!! zing!
I gotta say Montreal on this one but if their was an SSS within the 5 borroughs I’d go with NY. No disrespect to Atlanta but they just do not support. I’ve seen way to many empty seats at playoff games to even think about MLS in the ATL. Let the Silverbacks (are they even still playing)do the grassroots thing and when they can build up a hardcore following and then we can talk.
only if they bild the stadium downtown or in West County. If they put the stadium in illinois as proposed they will have the same attendance as FC Dallas.
St. Louis. It’s driving distance from Chicago and the Fire need another team that is less than a 7 hour drive away. The way to grow the league is through rivalries and St. Louis, Detroit and Minneapolis could all be successful if the situation is handled properly. However, based on St. Louis contribution to the history of the game in this country, I believe if all other things are equal that they should get first dibs.
My two cents, but I believe that youth soccer participation has zero to do with a team succeeding or not. The AYSO league on the Chicago lakefront has scheduled it’s season ending tournament on the SAME DAY as the US/England World Cup match. Speaks volumes about what those guys think about supporting the sport in this country. I have Fire season tickets and in my opinion the core people who come back season after season are adult males who like to drink a bit and curse a lot. In my experience, your youth soccer families make up only a small percentage of the crowd so awarding a team to a city based upon number of kids playing soccer is a mistake. Might be different in other cities, but that’s the story in Chicago.
Living in Phoenix…I’d love a team here. And completely agree with many of the posts above about developing rivalrys. Put a team here in Phoenix and you intantly create something with the Galaxy and the Goats at the Home Depot Center. As far as the detraction of the heat…well we’ve got a Dome here that’s used for the Crap NFL team, which in the past has packed in fans for Soccer matches.
It’ll nice to be see some Southern presence.
Born and Raised in LA…gotta see some love here in ATL.
However, the real money maker would be St. Louis…
Agreed. Am I wrong, or does Houston seem to play more of it’s games at night than Dallas does?
I wouldn’t put a new franchise in San Diego, I’d rather someone buy Chivas USA and just move them.
I voted for Miami, I think a team could do well – if everything was done correctly.
But if this new USL St. Louis team does well, I’d be open to them as well.
I think MRF can rightfully claim that Portland is already a success. At the D2 level they averaged over 9k last year. With the buzz of MLS in 2011 and the fact to get seat priority for MLS tickets you need to buy season tickets this year will drive the average well over 10k this season. Yes, no MLS success in Portland yet, but soccer success? “We are coming…”
Vancouver is a success in the region as well because in the stadium they played in last season was at full capacity for all if not most of the season. Again, D2 level here.
I’m not saying at all that St. Louis doesn’t deserve an MLS team, but what I am saying is that somewhere in the south (Atlanta, Nashville, New Orleans, Miami, Charlotte) is definitely more deserving than some of the places that even already have teams. San Jose? Really?? I mean, I understand they were one of the original teams, but so was Tampa Bay so why don’t they deserve a team? I think a southern team would draw tremendously because we typically support like a region. Instead of a place like New York which typically only draws from New York or New Jersey fans, a team in Atlanta would draw from Georgia, Tennessee, North and South Carolina, Alabama, even Florida at times. People do get excited about Braves baseball, but you’re talking about 162 games, during the summer, many during the day, and when you’ve been making the postseason every year but only win one world series, fans tend to get a little jaded. The Falcons have been selling out and the Hawks are getting closer to selling out, they’ve just been so bad lately that no one cared until recently. Again, not trying to say that St. Louis doesn’t deserve a team, despite the fact I have a personal grudge against the city, but the entire Southern Region deserves to be heard and represented.
New York Cosmos playing in NYC.
Atlanta has the investor, Arthur Blank founder of Home Depot, one of the richest owners in the NFL. He spearheaded the Atlanta bid that went to Portland and Vancouver.
Why not Albuquerque? There’s a large hispanic population and soccer does very well here. It’s a no-brainer onve another stadium is built.
Sorry people….Walla Walla, WA for me!
Atlanta has an owner that wants an MLS team there. His bid included negotiations with Kennesaw State University to receive the land that the WPS team has now to build a stadium there. Last I heard, St. Louis couldn’t get anyone to build them a stadium.
I’ve thought the same thing about expansion in Canada. After Vancouver, the number of cities for a thriving MLS club is limited.
A quick look at the three largest metro areas after Vancouver reveals Ottawa, Calgary, and Edmonton all just slightly over 1 million in the region. Large enough, but for most MLS cities not big enough. Granted, Ottawa is comparable in size to the SLC metro region. Anyway, after Montreal, less likely.
It should go to whatever city has an owner able to commit the money with a valid stadium. Right now, it seems that St. Louis is best-positioned for that followed by Atlanta and maybe Miami.
I’d like to have a team in the southeast as the league eventually needs a presence there, but there needs to be a commitment. I haven’t seen that from any group interested in Florida now.
I’m from NJ, live in NY and a season ticket holder for the Bulls… so with that said, can we hold off on another NY team until we actually have the _current_ team selling out more games or having a larger season ticket holder base?
Just a thought.
The southeast needs a team. Atlanta is notoriously terrible at supporting their pro sports teams, so Charlotte seems to be the default choice.
I use to live in Rochester and was thinking the same thing. Good soccer city!
NO LOVE FOR NEW JERSEY? … what has happened to SBI? :=)
I voted for Miami because I live here. But i agree St.Louis is the obvious choice with Minneapolis being second. I’m from MPLS and there’s more support for athletics in MN than in Miami. I don’t know why Miami can’t get it done but it can’t. The NASL team even gave up on Miami and moved to Ft. Lauderdale. it’s a sad situation in Miami -Dade when even with Barcelona backing there’s only apathy.
Maybe this is stupid, but why does MLS need 20 teams? It came out that only two operated in the black, so why expand? Over-expansion in the NHL diluted the talent pool, spent lots of money on uninterested markets and generally hurt the game. It didn’t help professional soccer’s first-go round in the States, either.
I vote no expansion, develop the markets and talent (which isn’t that deep) that we have for a few years.
stop putting teams in Canada lets focus on the U.S. first…
The only logic, and maybe the biggest reason, that I see conferences working is to keep things local thus allowing for greater fans to go to home and away games. However, 24 teams is not enough to cover an area where a fan feels it is worth it time-wise, money-wise, and value-wise to travel to see a team play when it costs him $300.
A single league with no conferences allows there to be a true champion. Having to only play the teams in your half and then waiting for their winner to find the champion doesn’t make sense. I think the West coast was a stronger division last year and should of been represented better. Same problem I have with the bowl games for College football – no true champion or way to gauge it. You can go undefeated and still not face what’s perceived as the best opponent.
I want a single table league with a lot of praise going to the league winner (most points at the end of the season), a league tournament, and a multi-league tournament (MLS, USL, NASL, lower leagues).
and for that matter, it should go to either Charlotte, St. Louis, or NY
Wow, I can actually reply today. Check wiki — average temps are in Atlanta and DC are quite similar during the summer. The real difference is that the bumper seasons are nicer. And yeah, if the AC capital of the US, Houston, can have a team…
That location can’t handle something so big. There’s not enough parking or roads. Pipe dream is the Doraville Ford plant…really, though, we all know that it depends on what Arthur Blank wants and can afford.
They need a better ownership though. It’d be great if Golisano could step up to head the effort.
Aaron, I don’t mean to be rude but have you ever visited Atlanta? Or any nearby suburbs? I’m highly doubtful or else you’d know your crticism, while constructive, is completely wrong about Atlanta (both in it’s soccer history and whether or not it could field a succesful/quality team)
I noticed earlier that someone had mentioned our horrendous run with the Atlanta Chiefs, but they neglected to mention our relatively succesful runs with the A-league(and later USL) teams Atlanta Ruckus and Silverbacks. I remember going to old-school A-league Ruckus games in the late 90′s and the stadium wasnt always packed to capacity, but the passion was amazing. The area also sports severaI extremely succesful club and high school teams that have enjoyed national exposure at the highest levels. So no, I feel like your concerns over our passion and soccer history are unfounded.
Moving on, I know we’re not supposed to make this about race or social demographic – BUT Atlanta and it’s suburbs is one of the most expansive and diverse areas in the USA. You’d be hard-pressed to find me a sizeable group of people with zero interest in a Major League Soccer team for the city.
There are MANY extremely strong youth clubs and high school teams in the Atlanta area already on top of all that, so building up a strong academy program wouldn’t be a problem if the right management was put in place.
I respect your views on St Louis and know you just want a team for your own hometown, but let’s not make this a “my city has better soccer history than yours” argument.
No team in the South. Miami FL is the logical location for # 20.
I’d love to see Atlanta and Charlotte each get one. The South East needs some rep and those cities I believe have populations that would support soccer. I do think you would need both to make it work though, from the idea that regional rivalries help drive interest. Miami has proven to have trouble supporting a soccer franchise I don’t think they are ready to try again. St. Louis has an argument but the midwest has some rep between KC, Chicago, and Columbus.
As an aside I don’t get this idea that latinos won’t support MLS. If you have ever been to a DC United game they make up a large portion of the crowd, and are some of the most vocal. Just because some teams haven’t tapped into the market doesn’t mean they can’t. Heck United games have a Spanish radio broadcast but not an English one and every stadium announcement comes out in English and Spanish.
I’d vote to move Chivas to San Diego before giving them a new team, though I am not sure San Diego is really in need of one.
You people talking about atlanta’s fan base have no ideas what your talking about! The only reason teams like the hawks and thrashers have and had bad attendence is because they were and are bad. The hawks were so bad for so long that people stop caring, if you look at them for the past 3 year their popularity and attendence has gone up because they got better. Let’s not even try to talk about the braves they are one of the most winningest franchises in MLB, people from all over the south support them. They only have the one championship that is why people became a bit jaded but don’t let that fool u. The falcons continue to sell out games, did u all forget how it was with vick? Now Matt Ryan is starting to earn that kind of support.
Atlanta hands down has to be the selection for 20. With Arthur blank as owner the team will prosper… As long a they don’t suck, then they might go through what the hawks had to or so long bit the fans would still support the team. The fan base in atlana and the metro area is there and will show up to games and support the team. If the bid goes to another city it would be completly stupid, Atlanta is a diverse area and would draw fans from that diversity from all over the south..,
Atlanta #20 enough said!
Conferences do help breed stronger rivalries in my opinion, so they are at least good for one thing.
I would love to see a team in Vegas.
Ford plant would be great…good thought.
San Diego baby! The Flash are starting back up and will be playing in the USL next season, so I’m sure if they could find some investors Garber would love a team in America’s finest city
You are delusional if you think fans from Richmond will have any impact on a Raleigh bid. Richmond is closer to DC, anyway.
silly metaphors, silly opinion
I don’t know how anyone can question the fan base of St. Louis…
Go back and read the plan for the Vegas stadium. They addressed the issues of heat with plans to have a retractable roof and air conditioning.
There are all sorts of ways you can play in that heat, it just takes an intelligent and well-funded ownership group, which is exactly the type of group that was assembled and bidding from/for Vegas.
Ehhhhh I definitely don’t think it’s fair to say an MLS team would compare to NHL in Atlanta. I’ve lived here my entire life and MLS excitement would blow NHL out of the water. There is very little to no interest in hockey here for the most part, whereas Atlanta is assuredly one of the top up and coming soccer “hotbeds” in America.
Zing! And Nick comes in for the kill! Just imagine an Atlanta MLS team man. Summers would be so exciting! I know me and you would be at every single game screaming our heads off
Voted for Charlotte, well basically because I live here…. And we are expecting 65,000 for Mexico vs Iceland tonight at BOA Stadium, so I think CHarlotte could support a team…
Like a few posters mentioned, I think the city would adopt a team easier than tring to adopt the Bobcats as your team or the Panthers for that matter and the Panthers draw well…
It could help MLS gain a grasp of the SE part of the country…There is even a great sight for an SSS in uptown, if we ever got so lucky… If there is a movement to bring a team here, someone let me know, I’m all on onboard to do my part despite Charlotte probably having the worst odds of any of these cities…
Can I vote that we wait a couple years before jumping into this? We’re about to have 3 new teams! Let’s let the talent pool build up a little before spreading more. And it might help to increase the number of foreign roster positions as well. But if I must vote, I’d say North Carolina should get a team. It really depends on ownership and stadium location though. I’d like to see some of the proposals before jumping to conclusions
Exactly! Finally someone who actually knows Atlanta and is talking sense. Everyone else has never even been to Atlanta and are just making things up.
I’m an LA fan, but even I will be dissapointed if St. Louis doesn’t get an expansion team.
this is a business just like MLB and the NBA and NHL. You wanna go all insular about the league knock your self out. theres realities and then theres just having your head in the sand.
St. Louis is supposedly soccer-mad, and certainly a good number of players come from that area.
Atlanta has potential should MLS ever decide to expand beyond 20 teams. Don’t expand to the southeast just for the sake of having a team in the southeast.
I don’t know what people think of soccer in San Diego, but my first preference would be to relocate Chivas USA to San Diego over expansion.
New York – I really cringe at the idea of having more than one team in the same city. Okay, so NYRB is in New Jersey. Whatever, close enough. Let’s see how FC New York fares before putting a second MLS team in New York (and it should be _in_ New York City).
Miami – if it’s done right, I’m sure it could work. But do we want to go with “could” over “will”? That FC Miami struggles to draw (though to be fair, that’s as much of their own doing as anything else) and a Miami team already folded out of MLS, not to mention the struggles other pro sports have in Miami, I don’t see this as a soccer city.
Phoenix – Honestly don’t know.
Charlotte – First I’m hearing of it. Can’t say, though USL teams seem to have fared alright in the Carolinas.
Las Vegas – pro sports will never ever work in Las Vegas. Ever.
Jesus. Can you imagine the crazy drunken train rides between cities for games!? AHH Thats what I’m talking about…
Aaron in Stl, stop BLINDLY spewing hate against Atlanta. Good lord you are pissing me off. Look, i will admit St. Louis should get a team! I admit it, i’m not disputing that.
Now to Atlanta, you cannot use NHL’s success/failures as any indication of MLS success. NHL over-expanding themselves…it’s very obvious. Plus, hockey is not a “natural” sport in the South. No colleges in the South have varsity hockey teams because hockey is mostly for the North/Canada.
Give the game of soccer a little more credit. It’s not a niche sport like hockey is. And for the record, the Falcons sell their games out, and the Hawks – despite price gouging on their tickets – are starting to get GREAT attendance compared to earlier years. Maybe go to Atlanta before spewing this crap? I’ve never been to St. Louis and you don’t see me saying “ohhh St. Louis sucks and could never work out.”
Well said.
I’d like to see a team in St. Louis and Miami.
Put a soccer-specific stadium in downtown Raleigh.
MLS needs another flashy, international destination that attracts international attention – only Miami or Las Vegas would work, and a Miami-based has already folded once.
As a Las Vegas local, I can proudly say there’s plenty of support for the game here. I can go down to the park by my house on any given weekend and there’ll be people of all ages playing pick-up games.
Vegas is the largest market in the entire country that does not have a single top division sports team.
Its an international destination that can attract attention from the rest of the world. Would you think an MLS Cup final in Vegas or St. Louis would get more coverage in the rest of the world? Would St. Louis be able to attract a DP like Ronaldinho?
While Vegas doesn’t have the backing right now to pull the last expansion slot, I am convinced Vegas should be the first destination on the list for any teams that will be relocated/re-franchised (the last time we made a bid, the Vegas-based investor group bought a significant chunk of Columbus Crew instead of pushing for another bid the next year)
Couldn’t agree more. The league continues to try and market to suburban moms, but its the exact description of the common fan that you describe that shows up to each game. Well atleast here in Chicago. Give that target market what they want, great crowds and rivalrys and this league will take off…
Your reason for saying “pro sports will never ever work in Las Vegas. Ever” is based off of what?
wait were is there a plan for a MLS stadium in Vegas with a retractable roof??? that would be way to cool.
Milwaukee and St. Louis. I can’t stress that enough. Combine fan bases and its that much easier for sellouts thus making teams profitable. Those games would have instant sell outs when they played each other or the Fire. St. Louis vs KC sellout. Why put a team in Miami (which has failed) or ATL and only pull from one fan base? Focus on regions and this league will finally have a solid base to build on.
I respect that people from random areas want teams, but focus on the business. The sooner MLS becomes extremly profitable, the talent will increase. I only bring that up, because I agree about the analogy of the NHL diluting.
Blind hatred toward the South again. I’m a hardcore conservative and I love college football, yet I would be at every single game if Atlanta got an MLS team.
Liking soccer isn’t a mutually exclusive trait. Although it seems to be the case with some of you. It’s perfectly normal to like soccer + another sport(s).
But I guess I’m just a retarded hick from the South right? We have no money or rational intellect. We live for NASCAR, college football, moonshine, and sex with our sisters. I forgot, my mistake.
i have heard a lot from atlanta fans that makes me think otherwise but a Raleigh-Durham-Cary or Charlotte team sounds great. Fast growing area with limited number of pro sports, especially during the summer. and look at how many MLS players come out of WAKE!, duke and the other NC schools.
Watching the fans there take to the old Hartford Wallers just looks like an opportunity (seriously who plays hockey in NC?, compared to soccer?)
no need to try florida again until 2020
It’s both. Dimwit.
id say help out the fan who don’t already have a team in walking distance but if you want real local rivalries DC-Baltimore-Phily-NY-Boston (in the city) would make a great Accela rivalry. keep building your USL team and it could happen
I mean if you can’t sit down with a cold drink for 2 hours in 90-degree weather and watch a sport you love then I don’t know what to tell you man. That tells me more about how willing a person is to actually watch a game than whether or not the city can support a team.
And I’d be willing to bet Atlantans wouldn’t mind TOO much having to sit in the sunshine and watch good soccer. Doesn’t really seem too bad to me.
i see Miami and the potential Barça ride as a player development team not a spectator league (like MLS is trying to build). Its just a matter of time until Barça or another team is serious about opening up the Caribbean and Florida (great athletes) to soccer.
If i was in charge of that idea it would be serious investment into Miami’s USL team’s youth system with a European partnership.
TAMPA… we had 1,500 fans show up to a preseason game
until this is sorted out.. lets get an MLS CUP in Vegas!
or an All Star game in St. Louis, Atlanta, Minneapolis or Charlotte!
i had a great time in Seattle for the cup but Vegas in November would be so much better!!! the only issue is that their stadium is nowhere near the strip.
Just pointing this out but both of you said something about “It may be different in other places, but that’s how it is in Chicago” when talking about youth soccer affecting MLS.
Right, in CHICAGO. You already have a team – what makes the Fire such a strong team is probably MUCH different than what would drive a team in Atlanta for example (where I’m from and continue to live). I can definitely vouch for the fact that youth soccer would play a tremendous part in supporting and working with an MLS team here, a huge reason why I believe Atlanta deserves and could support MLS soccer.
Btw, my caps use isnt meant to be antagonizing, I’m just trying to get the point across that different areas in the USA are indeed just that, different. So the whole “soccer mom” marketing plan actually is a pretty smart plan of attack for a lot of us.
Agreed with both of you. The so-called “facts” people are spilling on here about Atlanta have been just completely false for the most part. It’s good to see other people sticking up for ATL and providing the REAL facts on the subject.
Being from what Ive seen and stats Ive read the teams that have abandoned this type of attack have done extremely well. Sounders, Toronto, Chicago, LA all go after the target market we are talking about. Not the family experince that MLS was trying to force down peoples throats. Would it work in ATL, I’d have to take your word for it. I’m not sure about the soccer following in the south. But if teams just focus on the soccer moms and AYSO and happy happy fun time experience it will turn away the 20-40 male sports fan, that likes to drink, curse and be loud at soccer games. Thats all I think we are trying to say. Does AYSO cause the younger generation to like the game? yes. But many abandon the game once HS hits. Its just not as big as a factor in the markets Ive mentioned.
LOL, and I can’t stress enough how wrong you are about pulling from multiple areas for Atlanta. I live in Cobb County, a suburb of Atlanta so let me just shed some light on the nearby geography for you.
How would Atlanta only draw from one area is my main question. You realize the closest team to us here is DC United? Like I said, I live in suburban Atlanta and affluent areas of SC, NC, and TN are all less than 3 hours drive from me. Birmingham and Auburn, Alabama are also no more than 3 hours away. Not to mention the people we actually already have living here in one of the top up and coming youth soccer areas in the US.
Games either in the actual city of Atlanta, or better yet in one of the nearby suburbs like Gwinnett or Kennesaw, would consistently sell out with passionate fans filling the stadium from areas all around us.
So you’re mistaken in your assumption that Atlanta wouldn’t draw from other areas. I respect that the midwest wants as many MLS teams as they can possibly fit, but there are some other soccer fans that would like a nearby team as well.
St. Louis should have been given a team a long time ago. That they haven’t by now is a travesty. Not only do you have a city with a rich tradition in soccer, but you’d be setting up a natural derby rivalry with both Chicago and Kansas City – something the league needs to grow.
Having St. Louis as the 20th team would take care of the soccer cities MLS needs. After that, then you can look at your Atlantas, your Miamis, whatever.
I had that thought too. It’s the only city among the serious candidates with no MLB team to compete for fans during the summer. Might make some sense if there was a stadium in place. Wouldn’t want the games at the Alamodome.
No your missing the point. I understand ATL would pull from all of the south. But if the MLS would focus on where teams fans could travel to each game home and away, you pull from TWO MLS fan bases. Again I respect people want teams in their area. FL has had teams and they were in great markets. But they failed. Would it fail in ATL, one only knows. I’m not saying there isn’t soccer fans down there. I’m saying by putting teams next to each other, you allow both home and away fan bases to buy tickets thus doubling your exposure. People in multiple cities can make the arguement you make. Your biased because your from ATL. Again I respect you want a team. Fight for it, I’m not telling you not to. But from a business standpoint it doesn’t make sense to have satallites dotting through out the entire US.
I say miami. why? because they are alot of latinos in miami of course. espcially from central america and mexico. Also is close to the famous beaches like south beach. A great spot for tourist. It would even be great for big events. such as the mls cup, mls all star games.
After reading these comments what is painfully obvious here is that it sucks to be a fan of MLS and not live near one of it’s teams, and you would die to have a team in your market.
I would piss my pants if MLS brought a team within 3 hours of Birmingham, AL.
I’ve met two Charlotte USMNT supporters (I believe AO), and they were very knowledgeable and passionate. If there are growing factions of supporters just like those two throughout Charlotte, then maybe MLS will flourish there. But when we see that only TFC and SSFC are profitable, with huge markets like LA, NY/NJ and Chi-town in the black, then we have to be selective.
The questions to ask: which cities have a history of support? which cities have soccer-loving immigrant populations? and which cities have non-condescending, young American sports fans?
I simply don’t know if Charlotte has that. Where’s the evidence?
Jay Dubs wrote: “More teams -> more tv airtime -> more revenue -> better players -> better league”
You make no argument for this position. Why is this true? Why wouldn’t the average talent level per team decrease with a dramatic increase in the number of teams? There are just not that many good North American players.
I think MLS should stop at 20 for 5-6 years, and certainly not go to 30 for another 15-20 years. I could see 24 teams in 2020, though.
St. Louis also couldn’t do anything in the World Cup until they got players from Philly
San Francisco!
Just upgrade the Rhinos and get a Rivalry with Columbus/Toronto going on. As an upstater I would love to see that but realistically probably a 2nd NYC outfit would draw better.
While I agree that St. Louis has the history, there is NO team south of DC/Columbus and East of Texas. While I voted for Charlotte, I think the best choice would be somewhere in the Triangle region (Raleigh/Durham etc.). And for those that say that the region hasn’t taken to the Hurricanes are crazy. Yes, the early seasons didn’t have the support, but one season of a playoff run, and people follow them religiously! And these are people that never played hockey growing up. Now add in the fact that many play soccer growing up, I think it would be great to have a team in the region. I think the possibility of a Raleigh/Charlotte v. DC/Atlanta/Nashville/Baltimore Rivalry. (I know, that includes a few more expansions.) And to top it off, Raleigh/Charlotte in the summer is no where close to the temperatures in Florida, or even Atlanta.
a 6 hour drive is hardly a darby… At least NY is 45 minutes from philly
Yes, I have been to Atlanta (actually went to a Silverbacks game before vs. Nashville Metros back in the day)…the city is a logistical nightmare. Traffic is horrendous.
I’m actually not originally an STL native, just been there for awhile now. And it’s silly for you to assume that just because there’s diversity in Atlanta, that there’s not just as much in STL.
Also not dabbling in ‘race’ part – but STL has a growing Hispanic population, as well as a giant Bosnian community which incidentally is huge in the growing support of ACSTL. Like others have said before, the ‘soccer’ infrastructure is here. Not saying Atlanta couldn’t do it, but I think STL is a more viable option right now.
And what I’m trying to demonstrate is that history matters. Because when the novelty wears off, what happens to the team? Atlanta does not have the best tack record for that, as is demonstrated by various posters here. A city that has a long standing relationship with the sport is better suited to support it long term, through thick and thin.
Yes – that is exactly what I was imagining. Would make it so much easier and enjoyable (and safe while we’re at it)
That is definitely true about the Braves. There are no MLB teams in NC, VA, SC, MS, AL, and then there are only a couple in FL. As someone that lives in NC, if people care about baseball in the region, they are almost always Braves fans.
Dude, grew up in the South. Been there, nice city in parts. Quit assuming things.
Man, that’s a really tough sell though. How are you going to pull all these fans in for a Tuesday/Thursday game? Not happening.
I grew up just south of Nashville, and I’m willing to bet the only people you’d pull from there would be for an occasional game, or if there are club teams there for a tournament/camp that coincide with a game.
And you have to be realistic, any pro sports league (in the U.S.) would need to pull from its immediate Metro area (1-2 hours tops). NFL can use that argument because there are very few games, only on Sundays. In leagues that play 25+ games a season, you can’t rely on somebody from 4-5 hours away to show up consistently. Not in this economy.
I for one def think St. Louis should be # 20. Detroit as a city needs to be revived before MLS would ever consider it…. But say if Eminem was owner it might happen….. MLS wants to add as many notable owners as possible.
I just like how Phoenix is coming in last. Heck, I live here and I also didn’t vote for Phoenix.
There is actually an active fan movement in San Antonio that has been trying to get a MLS team for years. They have even had stadium plans drawn up in the past. The only problem is San Antonio doesn’t even have an ownership group willing to put in for a USL team. If they could get ownership straight San Antonio would be a big success.
Chicago Fire is on the south side of the city (yes it’s ‘Bridgeview’ but it’s literally right on the border of the city limits and uses all of the CTA transit lines and they have suffered trying to lure the Latino audience despite it being in a much more ‘ethnic’ part of the city.
The crowds there are still mostly white even with Blanco the bump was short lived.
It’s silly to base your bets on marketing to certain ethnic groups. If you put out a good team that is fun to watch they will come out. Houston has done that and they do very little marketing to specific groups, they make it all about being appealing to soccer fans which will work every time.
San Diego!!!!! We have the fan base, plus we hate LA.
the fans that attended that Chelsea – AC match were not even primarily from Baltimore, they were basically soccer fans who live anywhere on the east coast – I had friends from NJ and MA make the trip down.. and that area already has DC united. would not work in Baltimore
Atlanta is the worst sports town in America. Braves dont draw, NASCAR never sells out, Falcons are up and down.
I think a Las Vegas team would be a revolutionary idea! MLS would really show the other American pro-sports who’s got some stones…
Can you imagine an All- Star game or an MLS Cup there??? That would be an awesome weekend!
Atlanta or Charlotte. the South needs a team. there is a large soccer following in the South and there are nothing but USL teams for us to follow. there aren’t many professional teams in the South as it is, and an MLS team in the South would really bring a lot more fans to the MLS as people down here are pretty much in need of more pro teams. everyone just follows college teams and are desperate for a good pro team. an MLS team would be perfect! that would be great for the region, the MLS, and American soccer as a whole
i totally agree. thats what i said. there are tons of youth, high school, and college soccer players in these surrounding states with no team to follow. a team down here would really attract a lot more fans to the MLS and would be great for American soccer as a whole
I can completely respect that. Eventually I think MLS will too.
They’ll make a temporary pitch on the South Lawn before they even consider moving to Baltimore.
No more…MLS needs to work on adding the DP’s before diluting the talent pool again!
Forget the tea-bagging old farts in St. Louis…Miami would draw more interest
Wherever the 20th team is I hope it’s somewhere without an established USL/NASL team. If we really want Soccer to grow we need to start supporting second division teams instead of poaching them.
that’s the same idea i had. 3 conferences, call them ‘Pacific, Atlantic, and American’. teams in San Diego, San Antonio, St. Louis, Carolina, and NEW YORK COSMOS…
I’d say the city of St. Louis is back on the rise. All of the kids who grew up in the suburbs are flocking to the new loft districts after graduating college.
And St. Louis still is a soccer hotbed. Everyone plays soccer and everyone knows soccer. The city consistently produces some of the country’s top talent. I really hope the MLS adopts AC St. Louis as their 20th team. The city is ready
I vote for all of the above plus Tampa. MLS needs a presence in as many TV markets as possible. MLS doesn’t have to worry about talent dilution with expansion bc of the global nature of the game. The problem is that there are not enough potential owners with the resources and passion for soccer necessary to build a successful franchise. Any major city where MLS can find a qualified owner and a good stadium situation would be a great addition for the league.
Miami is not a sports town. None of their teams have a good following unless they are winning a championship that season. Plus they won’t build a stadium for the Marlins so why would they build a soccer stadium?
The Florida teams failed bc of the lack of ownership and bad stadiums. The markets were not the problem.
Miami/Ft. Lauderdale deserves another shot. Only this time with competent and well funded ownership. Tampa as well for that matter. After great success stories with the Strikers and Rodwies in the original NASL, MLS came in and made a mess of things in Florida, and then cut and ran “for the good of the league” when things got tough. Fans in KC, Dallas and San Jose should thank their lucky stars AEG and the Hunts were there to save their equally troublesome franchises. Florida got the short straw, as as a result we are labeled as “failed” MLS markets. It’s not a fair label by any means.
Considering there are ZERO teams in the Southeast US, it would makes sense to expand back into the area sooner rather than later, because with all the top class foreign soccer on TV these days, MLS is becoming more and more irrelevant here as time goes on.
I think all the cities mentioned(except a second NYC area team, one is plenty) would be great additions to MLS. With the right venues(roofed and A/C), even Phoenix and Vegas could thrive.
Ummm.. The Marlins new ballpark is already 30% completed. Check your facts chief. The Dolphins have a great following, and the Heat draw 17K+ every night. The Panthers may be a poor draw but would you go see a team that hasn’t made the NHL playoffs, let alone won a playoff game, in nearly a decade? The Marlins don’t draw well either, but the TV ratings are terrific. The worst stadium in baseball keeps people away. Who wants to sit in the heat and rain for 3 hours when you can watch on TV? The new ballpark, with a retractable roof and A/C, will bring people out.
I do agree a stadium is needed. Claure/Barcelona’s plan of playing at FIU would have been terrible. It could be new or it could be a revamped Lockhart(again, only this time with the Fort Lauderdale Strikers playing there), but a new SSS is vital to any new South Florida MLS team. I hope someone steps up and brings MLS back to the area.
Like others have said, regardless of city preference, the plan itself has have dynamic owners, good location and stadium, all that good stuff. That being said, my choices after Montreal would be St. Louis by a good bit, and mayybe Miami if an exciting monster bid is put together. If I was MLS I’d need a Southeast city to show some grassroots support for a team like Philly did before they got one. The cities there just don’t have a great history with professional non-college sports in my opinion. But I’d love them to get one eventually. After Montreal and another one I think MLS should chill on the expansion for a little while
Why Not Tampa Bay as the location for the South East, They could built a stadium next to legends field and Raymond James Stadium, where the old big Sombrero used to be. They have a rich soccer history with the Rowdies and they seem to have a pretty deep management group that includes Hank Steinbrenner as an advisor.
15k a game in Atlanta? No way. I live here in Atlanta and have been to many Silverbacks games and Atlanta would have trouble putting 8k in the seats. As much as I would love to see it, Atlanta does NOT need the next MLS franchise.
I seem to recall hearing Herndon Stadium was put up for sale some time in the last year, I think that would be the best option if it were affordable imo.
Personally I think that for an Atlanta team to be successful in the long-term it needs to be on MARTA and in the middle of the city so supporters from all the suburbs can make it without driving 100 miles.
Plus that location is close enough to Tech that their AA might be willing to kick in some money and start up GT soccer clubs
St. Louis should have had an MLS team by now. The fact that they haven’t is a travesty. St. Louis has a rich, deep soccer background that no one in America can match. Plus, there would be natural derbies with both Chicago and Kansas City, something the league needs to build upon for success.
St. Louis should be given the 20th MLS team to secure the soccer markets. After that, then we can discuss whether the Atlantas, the Miamis, and other questionable markets are worth the risk
The silverbacks attendance in 2007 was around 2500. What makes you think that suddenly because they put an MLS franchise in Atlanta that people are going to come out in droves? Atlanta is not a place that can support an MLS team. I truly believe that. The argument about the strong youth clubs just doesn’t transfer to Atlanta. This city has shown time and time again that it just doesn’t have top support for any of its teams, particularly when times are tough. Even the Atlanta Braves have trouble filling seats anymore comparatively. Atlanta is NOT a great sports town. While I love this city, I don’t think the MLS should come here.
They would of been if they had someone with money interested. MLS is afraid of another Horowitz coming in and ruining two fine franchises like the Miami Fusion. The next investor with deep pockets and/or with a plan to build a privately funded stadium are going to win the expansion slot. My bet is one of these 3 : Atlanta (Arthur Blank), San Diego (fifth wealthiest city in the US)or Tampa Bay (Steinbrenner)
Why not ask for a unicorn while you’re at it? That’s as likely to happen as your pipe dream for soccer.
That was ten years ago. If the markets wern’t the problem, then there could have been better ownership to come along to tap into these markets. The fact none has stepped forward suggests Florida is something of a mirage.
Arthur Blank has been silent since he pulled his bid off the table. What proof do you have that the Steinbrenners are interested in soccer in Tampa? And where’s anybody in San Diego to step up tp the plate.
At least Jeff Cooper is working non stop to bring a Division 1 team to St. Louis. That’s more than can be said for any of the above.
LA is the central cultural mecca — YES. Demographic center — NO. Remember downtown San Diego is only 15 minutes from Tijuana, and the Mexican border is well-connected via freeway and light rail. A relocated Chivas would draw fanaticos from two countries in a diverse 5-million-plus metropolitan area.
St. Louis isn’t shrinking. Where on Earth are you getting your numbers from? There are 3 million people here, including a large immigrant population who love soccer. Start looking at where MLS and USMNT players are from, and you’ll see how much St. Louis is still a hotbed.
its derby, not darby. stop trying to sound foreign.
I would love to see MLS back in South Florida.
This is a ridiculous poll.
No Tampa Bay? Really? Charlotte???? But no Tampa? Las Vegas, but no Tampa??? Phoenix!!!! But no Tampa!!! Atlanta, San Diego….dear God, but no Tampa???
Miami, which can’t draw flies, but no Tampa Bay Rowdies, who are already drawing close to 1,500 fans for PRE-SEASON FRIENDLIES, without any advertising or marketing!!!???
Did I mention that this is a ridiculous poll?
“What proof do you have that the Steinbrenners are interested in soccer in Tampa?”
Hank Steinbrenner is on the Tampa Bay Rowdies advisory board.
Thanks to the Steinbrenners, the Rowdies are playing the 2010 season at Steinbrenner Field in downtown Tampa, and not out in the boondocks at some nameless college or high school field that would have been their fate otherwise.
The Steinbrenners have connections with the Tampa Bay Rowdies going back to the 1970′s.
St. Louis’ soccer history isn’t any deeper or richer than a lot of other cities not in MLS, and not as deep or as rich as Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Chicago, etc.
Frankly St. Louis hasn’t been a major player in USA soccer since the 1950′s. St. Louis never drew well in the NASL. St. Louis soccer peaked pre-WWII.
St. Louis will have to prove itself in the here and now, just like any other city.
Victor, you are ignorant.
Go look up the attendance records: Tampa and Miami were not the worse in MLS, not by a long shot. In reality the “problem markets” are still in MLS, and we all know who they are.
Florida did not “implode”; MLS screwed up and blamed Florida for its own incompetence. Miami and Tampa were not the worst in attendance in MLS – go look it up. If it had been a question of attendance, San Jose, Colorado, Dallas, Kansas City would be gone. Tampa was cut because it had no owner and Miami was cut because it had a bad owner. Uncle Phil and Hunt had favorite cities – San Jose, Dallas, Kansas City, etc – and Tampa and Miami weren’t on their list of favorites.
1,500 fans each for at least three or four friendlies, so far, IIRC.
Imagine what they will do once the advertising and marketing starts and the regular season begins.
Ottawa! Nuff said…