Six ownership groups that were previously part of the USL-First Division have joined forces with St. Louis Soccer United to form a new professional soccer league that will begin play in 2010.
The Atlanta Silverbacks, Carolina Railhawks, Miami FC, Minnesota Thunder, Montreal Impact and Vancouver Whitecaps have joined St. Louis in an as-yet-unnamed league that has submitted an application for the sanctioning of the new league as a Division 2 league. The league will apply to be a Division 1 league in Canada.
“This is not your typical new league,” said Montreal owner and league chairman Joey Saputo. “Most of our teams have existed for years. We have united some of the best owners, teams and markets around a new vision for a professional soccer league in North America.
“We look forward to elevating our teams and league in order to give more opportunities to players, coaches, media and sponsors, entertain our fans and play our role in helping soccer truly recognize its potential in the United States and Canada.”
The application for recognition of the new league must still be approved by the U.S. Soccer Federation.
As for the USL, it will continue operation in 2010 with as many as 11 teams. Austin, Cleveland, New York, Puerto Rico, Portland, Rochester, Tampa Bay, Edmonton and Ottawa had representatives at a recent meeting to discuss the future of the USL, while Baltimore and Detroit were also represented.
What do you think of this news? Like the idea of a new league to rival the USL? Hoping these leagues work with MLS to improve player development? Plan on watching any of these teams play in 2010?
Share your thoughts below.
Finally! We now have some teams in the south east! No more travelling to DC or Texas for decent soccer!
What an awful idea…and of course Saputo is part of it. The United States can barely support one major league, and USL/MISL/etc are constantly bleeding cash. They need to unite as one league, not some 6-team joke.
“Some of the best owners,” huh? For those of us watching the MN meltdown, that rings a little hollow. Really hope that the Thunder continue to exist, but it’s not looking good at the moment. . . .
Vancouver is joining MLS in 2011, and Montreal will probably be joining as well in the not too distant future. How is this league supposed to stay afloat once it’s two flag ship teams abandon it?
Division I AND Division II soccer split between two countries is a lot of paperwork… are we seeing the UFL of soccer?
Will there be promotion/relegation? Splitting between Canada is a lot of work.
I’ll be checking out Silverbacks games.
How is MN possibly to be included with this group. Doesn’t this drop the TOA’s credibility? link to is.gd
I would venture to guess that they’ll try to get some type of partnership with MLS. As stated, two are already scheduled to go MLS, and STL United has been bidding for the past few years.
With the MLS reserve league gone, this could be a mechanism to farm out the young guys until they’re ready to play possibly. Once a team moves up to MLS, find a new partner to bring into the fold. I’m sure they could come up with something similar to that. But seeing those names on the list, it smells like something in the pot to get a foot in the door to MLS.
Uh, these aren’t new teams…
There will probably be a bit of a painful readjustment process here, as I don’t think either league is going to be OK on its own. One or the other will go under. Might strengthen the second division in the long run.
The USL will have less established teams than the new league 5 for USL versus 6 for TOA.
In terms of credibility that’s a big deal.
And The USL may be as high as 11, but could also be as low as 7, and that includes 2 expansion franchises in NY and Tampa. Getting 6 expansion sides in one season seems very unlikely (7 if you count STL in TOA) at that , or any level.
Fantastic! St. Louis needs a team of some sort in some league… this is big news for the Midwest.
I guess the Charleston Battery are sticking it out in the USL?
Also, is it me or will the US Open Cup be much more interesting next year because of this?
Probably by poaching a couple USL-2 teams? Or expanding into new markets following next season…
Why does it seem unlikely? They’re all in different markets and unreleated to the others. It would be different if USL and TOA were both trying to get into St. Louis, but that’s not the case.
What precedent do we have for 7 USL-D1 (tier 2) expansion sides in a single off-season? That’s a lot of new teams to try and bring into the fold.
I’d also suggest these are ‘rogue/rebel’ USL sides, not outcasts….they left the USL, not the other way round.
St. Louis is pretty much the Mecca of soccer in this country. It makes me sick that they have to form a below-MLS team when they should have been an original MLS city. It’s almost impossible to believe that two teams in Florida folded without St. Louis ever even getting a team in MLS.
Just another thing MLS has gotten wrong for 14 years, unreal.
Ottawa won’t be joining the USL any time soon. The stadium is years away, if it ever comes. There’s great opposition to the building of the stadium in Ottawa.
Well said. If not “the Mecca” then surely nobody could argue that it is not one of the hot spots. I can’t understand why MLS has no team there.
Does anybody want to know how I feel about all this?
So would this put: MLS on top, Breakoffs 2nd, USL 3rd? Confusion!
Both owners said that they will establish team in the TOA league when they will leave for MLS. Probably in Victoria/Edmonton/Abbotsford for Vancouver and in Quebec for Montreal.
St Louis is not Mecca for soccer. North Carolina, California, and New Jersey have produced much more professional talent.
I was thinking the same thing. The way it looks this would require a lot travel for the proposed teams since they pretty much span all of the US and Canada. With the financial woes the Thunder are facing, how are they going to afford the added travel costs of flying all over the US and Canada?
It’s true, but I think STL United is making due with what they have. They have the backing of AB-InBev with the donation of the soccer park on the Missouri side (huge, as the original plans were out in IL).
This will hopefully get the ball rolling and strengthen any future MLS bid. It’s definitely going to need a lot of organic growth, but it’s start at least.
Why can’t the USL teams keep a team in USL when they move to MLS? With no reserve teams in MLS the USL team could be a feeder.
Look at lower league clubs like Oxford United and Oxford City. United send players to City to get experience. The same with Cambridge United and Cambridge City.
But this is a higher level, so better soccer hopefully. And the silverbacks havent been playing for a few seasons now..
The main problem St. Louis has had with getting into MLS is that they haven’t had a 2nd or 3rd level team since 1995, so there’s no guarantee of financial stability yet. Does that mean they can’t be successful? No. Would having a Tier-2 team for a few years help them out? Absolutely. That’s why Portland and Vancouver ended up with the 2011 teams: not only is the PNW also a soccer hotbed, but all three of their USL teams have proven to be successful, so that makes them a safer bet than St. Louis, where the market is no sure bet.
Would love to see this league and MLS work together. MLS reserve teams could put farm teams in this league, owning rights to the players without hits to MLS salary caps, and with the rights to “call up” players anytime, for any game.
Find a history book (ok, might not have many but at least an article) on soccer in the U.S.
Recent history (especially at the top levels) has been lacking, but the city was a cradle for the game in it’s formative years in the U.S. and youth teams are still upper-tier.
Mecca? Sorry, that’s a bit much. I have no doubt that it’s a soccer hot-spot, and that St. Louis has produced several top notch players, but you have two cities in the Pacific Northwest (Portland, Seattle) in which soccer is extremely popular. Seattle in particular has more adults playing the sport than any other city in the country. The level of adult participation in St. Louis is nowhere near that.
pros; st. louis has a professional team.
maybe the breakoff league can establish some better organization/player development
cons; are they going to play the same 6 teams all year?!? (not counting USOC)
basically there is a divide among the prior USL teams and now they can only play half of the teams they played in years past.
overall: eh, should have broken off with geography in mind, but we will see how different (better) this league is compared to the prior. Anything to shake up the current league system and move it to a more progressive international style i will listen too.
I don’t know about any ties to MLS. One of the main reasons for the split is that in USL the league is owned by a third party and the TOA group feels that the league should be owned by the team owners themselves. This seams like it would be a significant stumbling block to any kind of partnership or association with MLS.
It’s very possible that the team/league ownership issue is a smoke screen and just a lot of talk, but I doubt it.
yea, you’ve had these teams for some time now…
in otherwords nothing more then a minor league team they can “loan” out their players from their MLS side….
hopefully TOA and MLS work something out to where this is a common practice
I am very suspicious of the research that shows Seattle has more adult participation than anywhere else. It is flawed because it only counts formal leagues, which tends to favor upper-class participation and excludes the main form of participation for most hispanic players. Adult pick-up games at the parks in Los Angeles run from dawn until dusk, but they don’t get counted.
Of course, pick-up games played doesn’t translate into season tickets sold, so it is understandable for a league and owner to factor only formal participation into locating a team. Nevertheless, it overstates the question of which city has the most actual participation.
Ottawa and Baltimore wouldn’t be “expansion teams” but would rather be “promoted” from PDL and USL-2, respectively, if they end up in the league, so they’re already part of the USL structure. Only FCNY and the Rowdies would be true expansion teams.
Attendence at the USL as little to do with getting an MLS team. Seattle drew 3-5K and many thought it would fail. The key issue is money. Need owners with money and stadium–See Roth and Allen for Seattle
Maybe Portland can finally win a soccer championship with both Seattle and Vancouver gone. Never mind I am sure they will find a way to screw up the post season
Are we that hard up for pro/rel that we want to see it in a 6 team league?
This is perfect for MLS, they can continue to pick up teams from USL and now this new league. I give it about Two more world cup cycles, MLS will pick the others clean until they have no choice but to join and be considered Division 2. MLS should have enough support to change into regulation/promotion and still keep the playoff system.
God Bless America!
We’ve all been waiting for your opinion. We just got bored and tried to fill in the time with our own meager opinions…
Now please enlighten us so we can hear it and carry forth your words of wisdom into the world.
I’d say the guy over at Hoffenheim who was lighting up the Bundesliga last year is a pretty big notch for St. Louis’ cred as a soccer mecca.
Ok I dug, I found StlouisUnited.com articles from last year when they were bidding to get into MLS.
They got burned. Even with Albert Pujols in the mix it hasn’t worked out. Even though it should have with the great rivalries they’d have from the get go.
Although I’m not convinced a brand new league is the answer, St Louis had better rule the roost if they succeed in forming the league. The fans need to show up in droves. Standing room only. And St Louis United will need to kick to the crap out of everybody in the first year and play better than Chicago or Seattle in their first year. And they should do it with homegrown players. They should win the Lamar Open Cup. They should win it for Lamar himself.
Otherwise its just talk.
Who’s that and what’s the St Louis connection?
Please
What does it mean to be a “Division 1″ league and a “Division 2″ league?
Stupid idea. Second tier soccer has to become regionalized in this country. Travel is going to eat up most of the budget of this new venture. We need a strong second level league that has 5-6 divisions, with the winners of each division going to a playoff of some kind to crown one champion. Would build local rivalries and cut back on travel.
Division 1 is the top team in a multi-tier league
Division 2 is one step below in ranking and/or quality.
Usually the top 2 or three teams at the end of each season are promoted from Div 2 to Div 1.
Bottom teams in Div 1 are relegated ( de-moted ) to Div 2.
This seems like a bad idea. I think it will just diminish all levels below MLS. What will this mean for my hometown Charleston Battery?! I need my cheap beer on Friday’s before the match!
You have no clue…New York is probably the only city that comes close to the history of soccer in St. Louis. Do some research. They were playing soccer in St Louis when fur trading was the top industry in the PNW. Most of the 1950 WC team was from St Louis.
Corporate Flounders
Thou hast a name, new USL offshoot league, and that name is “Disaster.”
Honestly, unless the league owners are ESPN, I can’t see how this is an improvement to the USL or a rival to the MLS.
Should the USSF be trying to help sort this mess out? If no relagation, perhaps what is needed is farming a la MLB.
Where will my Riverhounds be playing?
From the arguments presented here, I’d say St. Louis WAS a mecca of soccer, not “is.”
Not denigrating the St. Louis love, which seems very sincere, I just don’t see how it’s rational to call a city a soccer mecca when it hasn’t supported a pro team at any significant level in years.
Regardless of corporate cowardice, if it were that popular in St. Louis, public demand would’ve led to it flourising above the PDL level.
Question. They are starting in 2010. Will that be in the spring and play like the other US leagues or are they gonna try to go to a Aug/Sep to May schedule?
That would definitely make them different, possibly more marketable?
These franchises are hardly outcasts. It’s not the USL forced them out. They left not wanting the scraps the USL offered them. They’re renegades more than outcasts.
but seeing as their is no promotion or relegation, whats the point of labeling themselves thusly…
are they looking at MLS to be the top dogs, and they are fighting for next best with USL???
agreed, traveling that much to face the same 6 teams will doom the league….
they need to develop several other markets and push from there….
renegades that might find themselves scrapping even further then before….
IF they succeed it’ll be interesting, but more likely with the limited teams in the league, they will simply bleed money until they fold… this isnt good… the leagues in the US need to compromise and work together if this country is to change its take on the sport
See ya when I see ya. No hard feelings.
But let’s just sort of give a Yanki-Yank review of the franchises in question (just for kicks):
Good luck with your new league when Vancouver heads to MLS.
Montreal Inmpact: Uncel Joey Saputo didn’t have any interest in the MLS model (blasted it publicly in fact–the business model as well as the play). Then he wanted in and expected and discount when he filed his bid. Now he is at the vanguard of the breakaway league.
Carolina Railhawks: Ownership is delusional (you want an automatic berth to Champion’s League play for winning a second division league–are they on crack and crystal meth??). They have a nice, intimate venue, get great friendlies with Latin (especially the Mexican clubs), have an impressive front office and sweet production studio at the stadium. In my opinion, Carolina is rolling the dice more than anyone. MLS is not an alternative for them. It never will be. They have decided to hitch their wagon to a league that might not be around in two to three years. Say what you want about the USL pro divisions-They have evolved, shed teams but it still exists. Might not be able to say the same about the league that Carolina has decided to align itself with.
Minnesota Thunder: a club with fantastic fans that deserve mad props–can’t make payroll since September and release it’s players and front office staff. Employees are using their personal credit cards to pay operational expenses. Thier participation and thier owners quotes about it in the new league are like a bad joke. The only thing Mr. Johnson is missing is, a multicolored outfit, a bright red nose and big funny-looking shoes. Enough, already…
St. Louis: That “team” hasn’t even kicked a ball yet–won’t miss them. any. In fact, they don’t deserve any more mention. Movin on…
Miami: Want to fold because they are bleeding money. Then they want to be in on MLS with Claure. Then they want “protection” from MLS. Then wants back in on MLS. Nuff said about the Americas’ team.
Atlanta: Boris don’t have the best rep, does he? Word is that he didn’t do right by his players and front office when he pulled the plug on the USL1 men’s side. But hey–Dude is smart. He got a boatload of money for Khandji from MLS and Energy Drink FC.
I got $5 bucks that says that the USL will be still around when some of the clubs that manage to survive come back asking to kiss and make up after the new league proabably goes belly up.
Did the teams that might not make it learn anything from the indoor debacle of the MISL(NISL)/Xtreme Soccer divorce???
My guess is they know they won’t get talent superior to MLS so they are creatively stating they’ll have lesser quality. They will be what a Division 2 league would be if there were such a thing in MLS. Which there isn’t.
Sounds like what they do in Brazil
Agreed
This entire bru-ha-ha is bunk
kiss make up and join and strengthen the USL or cough up the cash join MLS and start that Dynasty
its unbelievable that they continue to battle with MLS by making stupid propositions like this
# 1 priority should be joining best league in continent as a second division(MLS), but no we are going to try to make the best league in the country fail when it isnt even possible…..sure go ahead
Well, that’s fine. But how much soccer is going on there now? Very little.
Not glad to see a rival to USL. I don’t think this is one of those situations where a fractious setup is beneficial to US soccer. All these leagues need to have a closer relationship
This has mls2 written all over it, but instead of centralised ownership it will be decentralised – the clubs will be in charge, much like EPL.
Don Garber will have to start selling MLS ownership to the team franchise holders and give them more control over regulations, or the breakaway group will sweep up!
It’s a smart move by Saputo because Garber is hindering growth of the pro game by putting a limit of 20 teams on MLS – the Impact and STLUtd groups are obviously upset and this gives them a strong bargaining chip in future negotiations.
Expect more ambitious cities to be cherry-picked for inclusion in the off-season – how about USA2018 bid cities San Diego, Nashville and Detroit to build their soccer base? Or Des Moines to join Ottowa as a promoted PDL team?
This is where soccer takes off in US public consciousness!
I don’t understand this. Division 2 (whether it’s USL or TOA or whatever) will only succeed when it can get as many teams as possible under one umbrella. Breaking out and forming new, rival leagues, isn’t going to help.
I know Portland is not included in the TOA group and is still a part of USL. However, it seems like the teams in the TOA league are the potential MLS expansion cities. Just look at the footprint MLS will have with those cities included. Along with the management differences, perhaps this is a way to keep a stable USL while having the other soccer markets grow and then become part of MLS. Also maybe Portland will join the TOA league later.
Considering Portland will be in MLS after next season, I don’t think thats going to happen.
I mean real soon…like 1 month.
Ok. I’m confused as to why there is no Relegation/promotion system among the US Soccer tier. It seems that the US pro soccer system would earn much more respect worldwide if this were the case, as this is the way practically all of the leagues in Europe work and many throughout the rest of the world (not too familiar with South American, African, Asian leagues). It seems that there would be much more competition among pro teams in the US and players would have more to play for (i.e. to keep their team above relegation, or to fight for promotion, which would gain revenue for all leagues/teams).
Sure it would be unfair due to the extreme revenue gaps between some USL-1/TOA squads and MLS squads but there are models of that in the EPL and all over Europe (just look at the Big Four in the EPL versus someone like Hull City, Birmingham City or one of the other bottom teams).
It seems to me that the USSF is really just a figurehead and has no real say as to how the leagues work and this is not the way European leagues work, the football federation in each country dictates how the leagues work and also dole out punishments/fines/suspensions.
Again, I think that to earn more worldwide respect, and perhaps, more competition among US players for USMNT spots this should be the model for the future. The USSF needs to take more of a role in making this so. But then again we are a capitalist country and as such money is a huge factor.
I think we also have to keep in mind that Pro Soccer in the US is a relatively recent thing compared to other leagues throughout the world. So, fine tuning everything will take more time.
I kind of agree with this but see my later post.
I mean to say that the USSF doesn’t dole out fines/suspensions/punishments another reason the USSF seems to be a figurehead. It seems pretty hands off in dealing with pro leagues.
I also think that as higher league teams get relegated they will bring revenue to the lower leagues simply by fan following and ticket sales to see the games, and it is the converse with the promoted teams, as they are promoted they will gain revenue because they may pick up fans or ticket sales form playing games in higher leagues will contribute to overall revenue.
We just have to make sure that if this model takes off, fans have to be fans and not ditch them when they get relegated, as is common in most US professional sports (let’s face it the US is the home of the “fair-weather fan”, fans in Europe are fans for life, and there is often bloodshed because of those rivalries).
Not to say that I want bloodshed. Just an example of fan dedication.
*(from above) which will contribute*
Awesome its great to hear.It seems that there would be much more competition among pro teams in the US and players would have more to play for (i.e. to keep their team above relegation, or to fight for promotion, which would gain revenue for all leagues/teams.
Could be a step to becoming MLS2 (without relegation/promotion). Also apparently Saputo is still in discussions with the USL.
Shame my most hated team could disappear because of his incompetence. Well. Kinda a shame.
Glad to have footy back in ATL…btw, the Silverbacks only sat out this just concluded season.
You’re assuming those ownership groups are the same? Perhaps in Baltimore, but I don’t think the PDL Fury are anything to do with USL 1 candidates from Ottawa.
In addition to FC NY and Tampa, the other two mentioned sides in Edmonton and Detroit would also be true expansion sides, meaning 5 or 6.
They should start some sort of relegation with the mls and the usl. It would bring the best of the usl to the mls and the worst of the mls to the usl
If you think St. Louis is the American “mecca” of soccer, you’re absolutely crazy. You don’t even have an MLS club.
Seattle is the city that averages over 30,000 fans per game.