Under-20 World Cup: USA vs. South Korea (Matchday Commentary)

USA CrestSouthKoreaLogo 

The U.S. Under-20 national team has its fate in its own hands. A win or a tie today vs. South Korea (12:45pm, ESPN2) in its final Under-20 World Cup group match will put the Americans into the second round of the tournament. A loss would leave seriously jeopardize the U.S. team's chances of advancing.

The Americans will be coming in with confidence after a stunning 4-1 victory against Cameroon in its last group match. South Korea comes in off a 1-1 tie vs. Germany.

I will be providing commentary throughout the match so please feel free to follow along here. As always, you are welcome to share your thoughts and opinions in the comments section below.

Enjoy the action (Commentary after the jump):

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FINAL- That's all for me. Please feel free to share your thoughts (and anger and disappointment) on today's match in the comments section below. Thanks for following along.

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FINAL- South Korea 3, USA 0. An awful, awful performance and now the Americans need a series of things to take place in the remaining games of the first round in order to sneak into the second round. As bad as they looked, does anybody want them in the second round? 

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91st minute- USA needs to try and find  goal here in order to have a better shot at the second round. Four minutes of stoppage time remain.

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88th minute- USA fans can look on the bright side. The Under-17 World Cup is coming soon and the US team in that age group is much more highly regarded (and I wonder if it could have done a better job in the U-20 tournament). Okay, I'm kidding. A little.

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86th minute- Still 3-0. Americans holding onto third place in the group right now.

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80th minute- Thomas Rongen is sure to hear a lot criticism for the team's performance in this tournament, as he should, but you have to wonder whether the talent just isn't there in this cycle. Would a different formation and lineup have made the difference? I'm not so sure after watching these guys play.

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78th minute- Yellow card for Brek Shea for a two-footed challenge. That would be a red card on some days. WOW.

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76th minute- Yellow for Davies, after pulling down a Korean attacker after being stripped. This game has turned Gold Cup Final ugly.

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75th minute- GOAL KOREA!!! And it's 3-0. This is over and the tourney just may be over for the USA.

Germany leads Cameroon 3-0 though, so USA is still poised for third place in the group if it can keep the scoreline 3-0.

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74th minute- PENALTY to Korea and Opara gets a second yellow card.

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72nd minute- Kyle Davies for Jared Jeffrey. Davies moves to left back and Flores pushes forward into a left wing role.

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71st minute- Duka with a poor shot after a nice move.

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70th minute- Korea comes close after ripping the US defense apart again with a nice pass.

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68th minute- It looks as though Rosetti thought he had already booked Opara, when he had booked Agbossoumonde earlier in the match. At least he corrected that mistake.

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66th minute- Korea draws a foul in the arc and Opara gets a yellow after originally being shown a red. Flores with the original foul. Not sure how Opara gets a yellow when it was Flores who committed the foul. Dangerous free kick for Korea.

Opara misses the next match, if there is one.

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64th minute- A better sequence from the USA, but they can't find a shot on frame.

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63rd minute- Shea with a shank of a shot.

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62nd minute- Diskerud is in for Arguez, and Williams stays on the field.

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60th minute- Diskerud is coming on.

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59th minute- Cruz shot BLOCKED.

How does Korea win so many balls in the air against a defense as big as the U.S. team's?

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58th minute- Williams beaten again, badly, but the Korea cross can't find a shooter. Rongen needs to get Williams off the field.

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57th minute- Another US turnover. This looks hopeless.

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55th minute- Korea's defensive organization is impressive. They stay compact and every player is adept at being able to close down his opponent.

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54th minute- More possession for the USA this half, but still no real good chances being created.

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52nd minute- South Korea subs in a striker for a right back, and we just might see Korea push hard for a third goal.

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51st minute- Flores gets down the flank but his cross is blocked. Still waiting for a good cross in for the USA.

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50th minute- Korea with another attacking surge, but it is ended by a bad shot. U.S. midfield still being outplayed.

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48th minute- The corner leads to nothing, but Korea did get a shot. Amazing how many corners have led to shots for South Korea.

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48th minute- Arguez gets stripped and them commits a foul, earning a yellow card.

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47th minute- Cruz with a cross easily caught.

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46th minute- We're back.

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HALFTIME- Peri Marosevic comes in for Tony Taylor. That's the only sub for the USA. 

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HALFTIME- In the group's other match, Germany is leading Cameroon 1-0. Cameroon was issued a red card just before halftime so it looks like a good bet that the Americans can hold onto third place in the group if it can keep the score 2-0 or score a goal. 

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HALFTIME- What moves could Rongen make? He could take Peri Marosevic out of the Witness Protection Program, or wherever he's been hiding the FC Dallas striker. Diskerud has to come into this match. Who comes out? Cruz and Shea are the leading candidates. Williams has been horrid today so you shouldn't rule out a sub involving him. 

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HALFTIME- South Korea 2, USA 0. The Koreans are dominating possession and the American defense has committed blunders at the wrong time. As for the U.S. attack? It's been non-existent. 

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45th Minute- USA can't wait for the halftime whistle. South Korea is moving the ball around with ease.

Rongen needs to make some changes. Williams looks lost today and the three-man midfield is being thoroughly dominated by South Korea.

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43rd Minute- The U.S. defense has been exposed here. Korea is in complete control.

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42nd Minute- Korea is knocking it around with easy, squeezing the life out of this game as the Americans fail to apply any real pressure.

GOAL KOREA!!! Williams is beaten by Bo Kyung Kim and South Korea is up 2-0.

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40th Minute- Taylor needs to stop going to ground so easily. Rosetti is a slightly better ref than the college refs Taylor is probably used to.

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39th Minute- A better sequence from the USA, but Cruz's cross is too weak and the Korean keeper smothers it.

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36th Minute- Shea has a high work rate, but he's also a turnover machine. At what point does Rongen make a change?

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35th Minute- Koreans dominating possession.

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32nd Minute- Ref Rosetti has more successful tackles than any U.S. player so far.

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30th Minute- Another Korea corner.

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29th Minute- Agbossoumonde with a yellow for a high boot. His first of the tournament.

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27th Minute- Not to single him out, but Brek Shea has yet to do much with the ball, which is shockin considering how much of the ball he's had in this tournament.

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25th Minute- A closer look at the goal shows the corner actually hitting Williams in the back. Agbossoumonde fails to clear it, leaving the ball for Korea to finish.

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23rd Minute- GOAL SOUTH KOREA!!!!! Another corner that isn't cleared, this time the Americans are punished. South Korea 1, USA 0.

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22nd Minute- The way Korea is playing I'd say the Americans might be better off playing four midfielders. The lack of pressure from Korean defenders would make it easy to break their defense down, but they can't string passes together with the current group.

Another Korea corner.

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21st Minute- WOW, Korea hits a point-blank shot off the underside of the crossbar, bounces down and out. The shot was blocked by Brian Perk onto the crossbar, before bouncing down and landing in Perk's hands.

Arguez follows with a shot from distance that forces a save.

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20th Minute- Korea corner.

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19th Minute- Early indications are that the Korean forwards don't really have the speed to separate from the American centerbacks. It will take a pretty sharp passing sequence to break down the U.S. defense (Korea has already done it once).

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17th Minute- The U.S. team's strength and tenacity will create some chances at some point, but right now they're struggling to create.

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15th Minute- Koreans look content to knock the ball around in midfield. Do they know they need a win today?

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14th Minute- Opara called for a foul. He's on a yellow so a yellow today would mean he misses the next match, assuming the USA advances.

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12th Minute- Arguez heads the corner away. Korea looks decent early on. Americans still haven't gotten going.

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11th Minute- Korea corner kick.

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10th Minute- Korea's 17 with a good shot from distance, forcing a save from Perk, who was in good position to catch it.

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9th Minute- Not a ton of pressure from the Koreans. Can the USA take advantage and knock the ball around? Still waiting for a good sequences of passes.

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7th Minute- Koreans unlock the U.S. defense, but a centering pass finds nobody and the Americans avoid some danger.

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6th Minute- Cruz tries a shot from distance but it goes wide. Nice pass from Duka to spring him down the right wing.

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5th Minute- Koreans showing some nice poise on the ball early, knocking it around from the back. Americans have yet to have any real possession.

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3rd Minute- If we were doing a drinking game, and we're not since this is a U-20 tournament, passes by U.S. centerbacks that don't reach anybody would be one.

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1st Minute- And we're off.

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PRE-GAME- Hey, it's Mikkel Diskerud's birthday today. Maybe he can get a goal off the bench as a present.

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PRE-GAME- Roberto Rosetti is the referee, the Italian ref is one of the best in the world so that's a good sign.

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PRE-GAME- And we hear that familiar South Korean chant. Brings back great memories of the 2002 World Cup.

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PRE-GAME- LA Galaxy fans will remember South Korea head coach Hong Myung Bo, a former Galaxy defender.

Hey, a Fernando Clavijo sighting in the stands.

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PRE-GAME- There had been some concern about Tony Taylor's hamstring but he's ready to go. No Mikkel Diskerud for a second straight match, but you would imagine he will see some time in the second half.

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PRE-GAME- Here is the USA's starting lineup:

———Shea———–Taylor————-Cruz——–

——————Duka————Jeffrey—————

————————–Arguez————————-

Flores——Agbossoumonde—Opara——–Williams

————————–Perk—————————-

If that lineup looks familiar, it should. It's the same starting XI that beat Cameroon.

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This entry was posted in U.S. Youth National Teams, Under-20 World Cup. Bookmark the permalink.

300 Responses to Under-20 World Cup: USA vs. South Korea (Matchday Commentary)

  1. Lee says:

    Mix should see some time today

  2. CapeCodFutbol says:

    GoGoGo USA! Korea has always been a challenge for the U.S.

  3. dena says:

    Back to the all white kits, seems someone is getting the hint.

  4. elmatador says:

    It seems to me that they play the 4-1-4-1. Arguez helping in defense and Shea and Cruz playing the wings and Taylor the lone forward. At least that’s what it seem to me vs Cameroon. Go USA!!!

  5. wes says:

    Lets go guys, DUKA REP THE JERZ

  6. CapeCodFutbol says:

    “Dae-Han-Min-Guk”…

    Such memories!

  7. LA Metro says:

    Is anyone else having trouble seeing it on ESPN 360?

  8. Dman says:

    THE ALL WHITE KITS NEED TO BE THE OFFICAL NORMAL JERSEY

    maybe my superstition but we tend to play much much better in them

  9. Richard says:

    any feeds other than 360?

  10. jpc says:

    LA Metro,

    Yeah, not sure what’s going on here. just a black screen

  11. Supsam says:

    yea 360 is not working at the moment for the USA game. The german cameroon one is though :]

  12. CapeCodFutbol says:

    Yowza Flores undressed and danger from Korea down the right. (Cut back cross doesn’t find anyone).

  13. Joe B says:

    drinking game: every unproductive touch from taylor

  14. DCK says:

    any alternatives to EPSN360? I can’t get it on my computer…

  15. dena says:

    When will these guys learn to put the right weight behind the ball, half of our passes are talking to long to be completed.

  16. CapeCodFutbol says:

    And Rio takes the Olympics…

  17. Joe B says:

    oiy . nice grit from shea and cruz

  18. wes says:

    opara is a beast

  19. Mig says:

    sheesh, what a mess so far.

  20. wes says:

    wow that was so close

  21. Joe B says:

    whhhhooooooah. how was that not in??

  22. CapeCodFutbol says:

    Srsly how is that not a goal?

  23. Rekro says:

    That was TOO close, we need to clear those balls out quicker.

  24. Mig says:

    hell of a save by perk

  25. CapeCodFutbol says:

    Hideous.

  26. wes says:

    how the ef do we let the same thing happen, the ball squirts through on a low corner

  27. Rekro says:

    And there it is……..*sigh*

  28. Jamie Z. says:

    Ooph.

  29. Angel says:

    I hate this crap why the USA always have to give the other team half of the field. Korea is going to kill us if the USA doesn’t pressure. Like always Stupid coach that we have. SEE GOAL from Korea Damn it Rongen get you Sht together

  30. CapeCodFutbol says:

    Two times where after a corner Korean players have had plenty of time to put a shot on frame. No closing down on either.

  31. wilbur06 says:

    wow we cannot deal with corners.

  32. Goalscorer24 says:

    It looks like Korea is playing with a loaded midfield the way Germany did against us. The 4 3 3 that Rognen is using will make it difficult for US to keep possession.

  33. LA Metro says:

    Btw, 360 is suddenly working. Just in time for the goal.

  34. wes says:

    wow nice finish shea

  35. CapeCodFutbol says:

    WTF did Shea think he was offsides?!?

  36. Joe B says:

    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh. damn it .. nice run and ball in .. who played that ball in?

  37. afrim says:

    williams is such crap

  38. CapeCodFutbol says:

    @ Joe B – I think it was Jefferies that played the ball through the Shea.

    We will see Mix bc Duka hasn’t brought his form from the Cameroon game to this one, imo.

  39. Judging Amy says:

    AHHHHHhH!!! so frustrating! is korea this good or r we making it look that way? decision making has been poor.

  40. Paul says:

    360 is up

  41. CapeCodFutbol says:

    Ives right on, maybe it will be Mix for Shea later.
    @ Judging Amy – South Korea is almost always a difficult matchup for us. However, we started off with a ridiculous defensive posture (despite the formation). Let’s see how things change from here.

    Gale with a yellow.

  42. WK, San Jose says:

    why is shea still on the field at this point? his finishing is terrible- we’ve got another option in marosevic

  43. wes says:

    we need to even this up before half, the koreans are gonna bunker in for the 2nd

  44. Jamie Z. says:

    Sorry, Angel. I’m going to have to call you out on this one. Obviously there are things that we need to be doing better in order to prevent goals like this in the future, but can we PLEASE stop calling our coaches “stupid” whenever there’s a poor passage of play or disconnect on the field? Rongen is not stupid, nor is Bradley or anyone else within the National Team setup. Throwing the coach under the bus every time something happens we don’t like is myopic, reactionary, and certainly no way to come to a better understanding of the deficiencies within a program. It’s actually just “stupid.”

  45. Jacob A says:

    Flores is having a terrible game

  46. CapeCodFutbol says:

    Nice shoulder block from the ref on Duka. Fair play, Shea played a nice ball back into Taylor in the box but TT unable to run onto it.

  47. Bobby R says:

    Jorge Flores is craaaaaaaap. How is it that a country of 300 mil cannot create a single quality left back at any level?

    PS Rongen sucks balls too. How many tournaments does he need to blow before he’s canned? 10? 20?

  48. Braden says:

    I think you’re unfairly picking on Shea. Every player has been a turnover machine so far. Shea’s probably having trouble picking out a teammate that doesn’t suck.

  49. Sean says:

    I’m sorry but Rongen is an idiot. Why the hell is Shea playing out wide and Taylor playing target forward when Taylor should be out wide and Shea playing target forward? Also Taylor is playing like a Black Clint Dempsey, in the bad sense of playing like Clint Dempsey

  50. aristotle says:

    This U.S. team is total garbage. It doesn’t say much for Korea that they haven’t put this game away yet.
    The U.S. defense plays like a bunch of deer caught in headlights.

  51. mix says:

    im sorry, but brek shea is awful. i have not seen one good thing from him during the whole tournament. is he really the best striker we have? and how can bryan arguez not get playing time with hertha, arent they in the drop zone?

  52. Jamie Z. says:

    Taylor with a dive in the area. I don’t like to see that from American players.

  53. WK, San Jose says:

    Uh, what?! never mind sean, don’t elaborate- you’ll just get into worse trouble.

  54. CapeCodFutbol says:

    Korea with their 2nd

  55. Jamie Z. says:

    Ouch. Two down.

  56. WK, San Jose says:

    well, rongen has got to make a change now, whether he wanted to or not.

  57. Rekro says:

    Look a second goal, I guess you guys will find a way to blame that on Shea too.

  58. aristotle says:

    I guess to be fair though, this type of performance at this level is to be expected. Where do young American players have to play that allows them to develop?

    This game is well over. Embarrassing. I can’t imagine how this team beat Cameroon! This game could easily be 10-0 score if Korea didn’t miss so many chances. This game has looked like a professional team against a high school team right from the start.

  59. Angel says:

    I told you This F up Coach suck, did he ever teach this guy the basic of passing the ball right. Freaking Korea is killing us a Team that Lost to Cameroon FUKKKKKKKKKKKK I hate this

  60. A. Ruiz says:

    Wow, Korea just made the US team look like a group of traffic cones with the 2nd goal. How many passes did they complete?

    Is sueƱo seriously playing LB? What is wrong with American coaches?

  61. s.p.c says:

    rekro: you’ve got it almost right: but the second goal is shared blame between rongen and shea.

  62. Dman says:

    4-3-3 not ideal for any US team…..of course we scored 4 goals when cameroon started pressing

  63. wes says:

    they look out of it, i hope there is an inspirational speech at halftime

  64. jpc says:

    This team has zero impact players. They are wasteful w/ the ball, and dumb off it.

    Duka is clearly the best player, and there is absolutely nothing special about him

  65. Conor Casey's knee says:

    Hopefully people will realize that USA plays good against poor coached teams(Cameroon) and would get smoked by any good coached team(Germany, SK)

    It’s the same way with the senior team. Unless ofcourse we bunker all game and pull a miracle out of our butts.

  66. This Guy says:

    Why is everyone on here so critical of Brek Shea?
    He’s been the only one creating anything close to a chance.
    Don’t let the Brit announcer dictate the way the match is actually going. The Brit announcer has sounded pretty idiotic for about a week now in every match.

  67. Joe B says:

    i’m glad im not the only who thinks shea is bringing alot more to the table than taylor is

    move shea up top and get taylor out of there .. would be nice to see someone with a workrate as our pivot

    also: who else is excited to see how powers can really turn this game around next half! (j/k)

  68. Jamie Z. says:

    Time to get Mix into the mix.

  69. CapeCodFutbol says:

    Aristotle & Angel have taken the early lead in the trolling / hyperbole competition.

  70. wes says:

    on a lesser note…. can anyone explain to me why the rest of the world excluding north america gets FIFA 10 now and we don’t get it until the 20th? anyone know how to get a european copy?

  71. CapeCodFutbol says:

    @this guy

    I’m not listening to the Brit announcer; I have the Spanish feed after that ridiculous commentary in the CMR game. However, I do wonder wtf you are watching if you think Shea has been having a good game. They’ve all sucked, and he’s turned it over more than most.

  72. 49ers says:

    How can one NOT blame the coaches? Stringing together passes to maintain possession is a reoccurring problem for American teams. It ain’t that hard. See? Korea is doing it. We play ugly football and that is clearly a reflection of our poor coaching.

  73. mix says:

    what game are you guys watching? the only chances shea creates are ones for the other team after he consistently gives the ball away!

  74. beto says:

    How is Rongen still coaching?

    What the system needs is better coaching top to bottom?

  75. wes says:

    shea plays like berbatov, with no skill. haha he’s in slow motion

  76. AdamTheRed says:

    OF COURSE THE 3 MAN MIDFIELD IS GETTING BEAT. Rongen, you my friend are an ass clown.

  77. A. Ruiz says:

    So how come Korea and Japan have learned proper soccer in the last 30 years while the US team is still playing kick and chase?

    Pathetic.

  78. This Guy says:

    OMG! We will never win another match let alone score ever again!
    Fire Bradley! Fire Rongen! Bench Shea! Bring in Vincenzo Bernardo! Call in Robbie Rogers with a doctored birth certificate!

    This is getting old and I doubt anyone in here could coach the Brazilian squad to the 2nd stage.

  79. aristotle says:

    To blame coaches for this train wreck of a team seems pretty silly. Should a coach have to teach you not to panic 40 yards from your goal and kick the ball out for a corner as soon as an opposing player comes toward you? Is it really the coaches fault that they play like frightened children?

    Korea has just realized what a joke this team is and are really going to come after them now. I have not seen any U.S. team this embarrassing since the U.S. team that played in it’s first World Cup in forty years back in the 1990 World Cup.

  80. afrim says:

    european copies wont work on your system..different formats.

    4-3-3 only works if u have 3 absolute class holding mids and strong flank players. not many teams/clubs around the world can pull it off

  81. shea is weak says:

    Brek Shea is looking unbelievably overhyped\overrated.

  82. This Guy says:

    We need to hire 49ers as the next coach. He knows so much more than Rongen.

  83. Angel says:

    Rongen is at the begining wasn’t even playing a 4-3-3 he was playin 5-4-1 with taylor a top as a lone stricker plus this taylor suck big time.. Flores and everyone their passes are either long, short, too hard or too soft and the keep giving it away. Please Rongen get your act together and please stop defending this coach can you see how our players are playing… or what kind of game are u guys at watching

  84. 49ers says:

    This Guy. Thank you for your cute comment. Fact it, we’re still under-performing outside of CONCACAF. But yah, we have the best coaches, best players, best fans, etc… Must be bad luck.

  85. Braden says:

    @capecodfutbol

    Yea, but Shea’s essentially playing as a winger and MOST of his turnovers have been near the Korean goal. What’s killing us is the bad passing by Arguez and Jeffrey in the middle of the field. Korea excels on breakaways where the defense is off balance, and their giveaways are making this game a foregone conclusion.

  86. CapeCodFutbol says:

    Oooh 49ers quickly trying to find his way to the top of the trolling / hyperbole leaderboard.

    Good luck sir!

    (Just an aside, but rather than trying to turn this half into a referendum on everything, why not focus on the game?).

  87. This Guy says:

    With the exception of Cruz, name one player in that 1st half that was better than Brek Shea? that’s not Korean?

  88. Adam in Irvine says:

    Germany is up 1-0, at least if they win by enough, that will put is in third place. That at least gives us a chance to move on if we can score in the second half.

  89. CapeCodFutbol says:

    @Braden – fair enough. There have been plenty of poor performers, and I can definitely understand that it feels like piling on bc people talk about Shea so much.

  90. JSmiley says:

    Germany is up 1-0 and Cameroon is down a man. Germany win would probably give us 3rd and would be enough to get through to the round of 16 as one of the four best third-place teams.

  91. Angel says:

    I tell you something Wilmir Cabrera should take this team, I bet the USA U17 can kick the F out this USA U20 butt. The U17 have more skill and know how to play real South American Football Soccer. This Colombian guy is the Best Coach the USA had What the U17 World Cup and you’ll see how they play. Rongen & Bradley are the same style of playing. THey both suck.

  92. Jules says:

    This is what I imagine went on right before the tournament:
    Coach: How ’bout everyone introduce themselves to the group.

    Guy1: Ok, I’ll go first. My name is Tony

    All: Hi Tony.

    Guy2: Hi, I’m Bryan.

    All: Hi Bryan.

    Guy3: Well… you see where this is going right?

    Have these guys ever played together because it doesn’t look like it at all.

  93. 49ers says:

    Thanks for noticing Cape. I’m glad you are excited about the prospects of our national team with such mediocre coaching. I can call you a lot of things, but I’ll be nice and just say you are very ‘optimistic.’

  94. This Guy says:

    When Rongen brings this squad out (minus Tony Taylor) in the 2nd half and they win this match the trolling will end.
    We could have won in Azteca and some would still be calling for Bradley to be fired. Hell, Bradley coached us to the Finals of the Confederations Cup and many still doubt him.
    This gets old and stupid quick. Coaching a squad at this level is not like coaching you 10 year olds community team. You youngsters will learn soon enough though.

  95. Justin O says:

    Adam – I don’t think 3 points will be enough to have a chance at a third place spot.

  96. CapeCodFutbol says:

    @49ers:

    Thanks!

  97. wes says:

    well if by some miracle we come out and grab a quick goal, we can unleash fury to even it up… cheers to a dream!

  98. andy says:

    dae han min guk!!

  99. jig says:

    “Sorry, Angel. I’m going to have to call you out on this one. Obviously there are things that we need to be doing better in order to prevent goals like this in the future, but can we PLEASE stop calling our coaches “stupid” whenever there’s a poor passage of play or disconnect on the field? Rongen is not stupid, nor is Bradley or anyone else within the National Team setup. Throwing the coach under the bus every time something happens we don’t like is myopic, reactionary, and certainly no way to come to a better understanding of the deficiencies within a program. It’s actually just “stupid.”

    Ah, Jamie Z., finally a voice of reason. Thank you.

  100. Goalscorer24 says:

    It is sad whenever the US team seems to hold their destiny in their own hands they fold. The Korean’s have always been a problem for the US. Well at least Germany is helping us.

  101. CapeCodFutbol says:

    @ This Guy — couldn’t agree more with your last comment. Cheers, and may Peri bang a pair in!

  102. This Guy says:

    I believe our U17s could beat this U20 squad.

  103. 49ers says:

    Bradley coached us to finals of CONFED cup???!!! Are you serious? Minus the miracle against Egypt, the US would have been out of the knocked out in the group stage.

  104. wilbur06 says:

    im not sure we have the fullbacks to play an effective 4-3-3

  105. Joe B says:

    posted by this guy:

    “We could have won in Azteca and some would still be calling for Bradley to be fired.”

    A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position.[1] To “attack a straw man” is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the “straw man”), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[1] [2]

  106. Adam in Irvine says:

    Adam – I don’t think 3 points will be enough to have a chance at a third place spot.

    Posted by: Justin O | October 02, 2009 at 01:45 PM

    ——————————-

    There are a few scenarios that allow us to squeeze through to the next round with 3 points, but I agree they’re unlikely. Just trying to put a silver lining out there as these games help get me through work.

  107. Angel says:

    @ this guy:
    Really be honest tell me are you really happy with how the USNMT senior is performing now how this U20 is doing. I see you like to be very optimistic not only you but a lot of USA fan are like you. Don’t have any passion for the game that you only it count is the win and not the style of playing. I bet you don’t care if the USA is playing bad as long they win. But not me I want the USA to win all the time but if we loose at least we loose playing well and a beautiful Futball soccer with a lot of Guts…

  108. Jamie Z. says:

    I love the way a group of armchair coaches feel qualified to make sweeping generalizations about players they’ve seen for all of 45 minutes and about career coaches who have a far more intimate knowledge of players and their habits than they do.

    One of the characteristics of players at this age is their inconsistency — at any given moment, you are just as likely to see the worst a player has to offer as the best they have to offer. Today’s heroes are tomorrow’s goats and vice versa. It’s like watching Clint Dempsey times ten…or eleven. Rongen is in the unhappy position of not only bringing up these players to work as a team, but of having to make individual player selections in view of the myriad variables that may effect a player on any given day. That’s not as easy as many of you boneheads seem to take for granted. I’m not saying he’s above reproach, but I do think he’s being unfairly judged by the majority of the people following this match.

    I never expect an online forum or messageboard to carry thoughtful, insightful discussion across the board, but I’d rather we not cater to the lowest common denominator with a bunch of reactionary spouting.

  109. JSmiley says:

    There will be a handful of 3rd-place teams on three points, so goal difference will be important. Of course, a draw would make that irrelevant.

  110. Judging Amy says:

    man this has got to be one of the worst performances i’ve seen from a us team at any level.
    the team looked like it came out playing for the tie. unmotivated and lacking a sense of purpose.
    the individual performances have been poor. the tactics have been inexplicably absent (why are we dropping back so much after being down a goal? presumably to play the counter, right? then why is there no support for our forwards after they receive the few balls that get to them? why do we hold up the play when the other team turns it over?)
    ah well the boys are young and talented there’ll be more tournaments for them.

  111. Goalscorer24 says:

    How many times can Flores kick the ball right at a Korean defender?!

  112. 49ers says:

    Not reactionary. This isn’t the first disappointing performance, Jamie.

  113. This Guy says:

    49ers,
    I don’t know if you heard about it but we beat Spain to make it to the Finals, so yeah, Bradley coached us to the Finals.

    It’s funny how things go wrong and it’s Bradley’s fault but when things go right it is the player and fate that did it, not Bradley.

  114. CapeCodFutbol says:

    Better start to the 2nd half for the boys. Pull one back!

  115. Bobby R says:

    Arguez = embarrassing.

    And I’ve never seen a player in the US uniform that has looked as inept as Flores. I mean the kid even looks like he’s going to cry at any moment.

    Rongen is the antithesis of what US soccer needs in a coach. He’s a terrible judge of talent, a terrible motivator, and a terrible tactician.

  116. jig says:

    Amen, Jamie Z.!

  117. 49ers says:

    This Guy–the win against Spain was one of the great joys of my life, but we were extremely lucky. Spain was peppering Howard with shots.

  118. afrim says:

    williams should change his name to “YooSook”

  119. aristotle says:

    That play by Cruz sums up the whole U.S. performance. Appears to be scared of his own shadow.

  120. This Guy says:

    Angel,
    I get concerned about these matches but I don’t have kneejerk reactions like most on here do.
    My passion shouldn’t be questioned though. I haven’t missed a match since 1994.

  121. Angel says:

    see what happen when they pass the ball they try to pick up the ball instead of holding possesion Jeffrey you suck

  122. wes says:

    damnit we needed a goal on that counter

  123. This Guy says:

    49ers,
    Exactly my point. USMNT wins and it’s luck or the players but, never Bradley.
    We lose and it’s always Bradley.

  124. jig says:

    Let’s be honest with ourselves, Cruz just ain’t very good. The guy didnt start playing soccer until he was 13 or 14. It actually takes a fair amount of technical ability to control a pass with that much pace. Cruz simply isnt at that level. You can’t blame him, it’s just a fact. The pathetic thing is that he’s supposed to be one of the best and brightest in this entire nation.

  125. CapeCodFutbol says:

    Mix on for Arguez.

  126. This Guy says:

    Mix!

  127. Judging Amy says:

    49ers,
    Exactly my point. USMNT wins and it’s luck or the players but, never Bradley.
    We lose and it’s always Bradley.

    Posted by: This Guy | October 02, 2009 at 02:00 PM

    I dont think thats necessarily true. Sure there’s a minority who’ll never be satisfied with anything BB does, but I think most nats fans realize that BBs at the least a decent coach and are able to give him props when he performs well.

  128. Jamie Z. says:

    Not reactionary. This isn’t the first disappointing performance, Jamie.

    Posted by: 49ers | October 02, 2009 at 01:54 PM

    I have already stated I don’t think Rongen is above reproach, but I have seen Rongen-coached teams play fluid attacking football against powers like Brazil and Argentina.

    Sometimes, it makes more sense to tweak a formula than to throw it out the window. It’s a characteristic of reactionary thinkers to assume that any hypothetical course of action taken in preference to a failed course of action would have yielded significantly better results.

  129. Angel says:

    Well guy I been playing since I was 18 yrs old and today I turn 42 is my birthday and I will really would like my team to play with passion and intelligence but like I said is how the had been coach. I been watching world cup since Argentine in 78 I know this game and I love it.

  130. 49ers says:

    Dude. . . Bradley is lost. Beasley wasn’t getting any time at Rangers b/c of a string of poor performances yet Bradley starts him in the Confed. Explain that.

  131. wes says:

    anyone feel that we need to be makin cross field passes? the koreans are triplin our wingers

  132. aristotle says:

    Perhaps Brick Shea would be a better name.

  133. Angel says:

    Can I least have my USA team play good today and give that as birthday present is that much to ask, For a team that people had it as one of top team in this U20 world Cup. Not to mention that Costa Rica & Honduras are that close to go to the next stage.

  134. jpc says:

    Jorge Flores is terrible. Brek Shea is good, but he’s so lazy w/ his passes, as is most of this team (especially the backs)

  135. Jamie Z. says:

    Angel – Who NOT suck on the team? If everybody SUCK how you expect us win?

  136. Conor Casey's knee says:

    So, when is it time to call out the coaches?

    People who love the players will call out the coaches and vice versa.

    When is the right time?

  137. wes says:

    was that a mistake by the ref?

  138. This Guy says:

    This ref is an idiot. That’s only his 1st yellow

  139. Judging Amy says:

    sigh…straight red? thoughts?

  140. 49ers says:

    Jamie is a real a-hole mocking Angel for his grammatical mistakes. Real classy.

  141. jig says:

    awful decision by the referee. I’m of the mind that the players are responsible for what happens on the field (shocking, according to most of you), but that was not Flores’ fault.

  142. 49ers says:

    Its never the right time to call out the coaches. If you do, you are just being reactionary and are not true fan.

  143. This Guy says:

    Come on you Yanks!
    we can still get a point

  144. This Guy says:

    I wanna punch this Brit announcer in his crooked teeth. This guy is an idiot with no clue what’s going on

  145. Nathaniel says:

    2-0 germany in the 68th. if that score holds we are thru.

  146. aristotle says:

    The announcer seems really disappointed that there wasn’t at least one U.S. player thrown out.

  147. Angel says:

    Jamie Z. at the begining I though we will get a win but I started to watch this game and I lost it cause the way the are playing. See how they are loosing their cool. That what make them suck…But I love my USA

  148. Judging Amy says:

    One goal would completely change this game. Come on kids…

  149. CapeCodFutbol says:

    @Conor’s Casey Knee —

    As you predicted before the tournament that we would crash and burn with “no chance” to make it to the 2nd round… are you sweating right now? ;-)

  150. wes says:

    lets get some goals!!!!!!!!!!

  151. This Guy says:

    Def. for Mid?

  152. aristotle says:

    Well, it looks like there is at least one area of play in which the U.S. is competitive with Korea., finishing.

  153. Joe B says:

    jeffrey hasnt offered too much today… lets see if davies can turn it up a notch .. lets at least get one here!

  154. This Guy says:

    Horrible call!

  155. aristotle says:

    Hyperbole? Really?

  156. wes says:

    it looked like opara was tryin to box him out

  157. Joe B says:

    penalty yes. but yellow??????

  158. CapeCodFutbol says:

    @Conor’s Casey Knee:
    Ok you can stop sweating now

  159. Rekro says:

    Game Over…..disgraceful performance.

  160. Judging Amy says:

    Clumsy Ike. Clumsy. Maybe this game is just a nightmare…

  161. jrb says:

    Well Opara just booked his spot in the MLS Draft…NONE of these players can hope for a European contract…even Duka who has been entirely invisible today.

  162. Angel says:

    @49ers:
    thank for backing me up, I don’t care if the mocking me for my grammatical mistakes but is all good. All I know that I love me team and is suck that we are loosing with this style of playing.

  163. wes says:

    the korean went flyin in the air when opara was tryin to get position, im not too sure about that

  164. This Guy says:

    That ref was determined to get that red card out.

  165. Mig says:

    Well, this is pretty embarrassing.

  166. Jamie Z. says:

    Jamie is a real a-hole mocking Angel for his grammatical mistakes. Real classy.

    Posted by: 49ers | October 02, 2009 at 02:08 PM

    Yep, I’m a real jerk.

    I love that not throwing Rongen under the bus makes me a Rongen apologist. What I’m in favor of is making a reasonable assessment of a team’s performance after a competition, taking stock of it’s strengths and weaknesses, and drawing up a gameplan for the future with that in mind. If it ends up being the case that Rongen is not the man to take us forward, then by all means, we should proceed accordingly. And this may be the case this time around. We have not looked good in two of our three matches this tournament. But hyperbole and scapegoating is not a very productive method of diagnosing a problem and THAT is what I take issue with. It doesn’t fix anything.

  167. Bobby R says:

    Sunil Gulati is watching this thinking “thank god I live in a country where this result will appear on page D12 and I’ll never have to answer for my failure to develop my country’s vast pool of soccer talent. Whew. And anyways it’s just a part time job, back to my lesson plans.”

  168. Braden says:

    I think we can all probably agree that Rongen should be fired. It might not be his fault, but two 3-0 blowouts in a major tournament should be enough to lose any international coach his job.

    I am thoroughly embarrassed by this performance.

  169. Angel says:

    That is not a penalty, Freaking Referring suck big time. Of Course he want his Italy to move to the next stage a best 3rd place.

  170. sucram89 says:

    there goes the all white jersey theory.

  171. madmax says:

    Korea clearly better side, team speed, skills, quickness to ball. Too many USA players having bad games, can’t list them all.

  172. Ed says:

    No wonder Korea wins all those diving medals at the Olympics, they get a lot of practice on the soccer field.

  173. Not_Amused says:

    They can’t even string a set of passes together, its like they’ve never played together before. Its pretty amazing how bad they’ve been on defense and attack.

  174. This Guy says:

    Anybody else listening to this British Clown commentating?

  175. Nathaniel says:

    3-0 germany in the 78th. if that score holds we are thru.

  176. CapeCodFutbol says:

    Korea was better on the day. I thought it would be a tough match for the U.S. before the game. Unfortunately things unraveled and we have the 3-0. Well played Korea.

  177. Robert Smith says:

    one thing that falls on the coaches, especially for young players, is discipline. This team lacks it and now they’re embarassing US Soccer.

  178. pflavin says:

    worst officiated game ever opara didn’t touch the player on the first yellow. his second yellow the striker jumped into him and opara was between the man and the ball and shea’s yellow card was all ball. announcers are anti-american as well

  179. dilly dally says:

    Another beached whale.

  180. Not_Amused says:

    Yes, Rongen needs to go and honestly the whole residency at Bradenton needs to be looked at. What have been the benefits of it? No youth team has won anything of merit.

    And yes that was a penalty, he had no intention of playing the ball.

    (SBI-Blaming Bradenton is pretty absurd. I you want to know what the point of Bradenton is you might want to take a look at the current U.S. national team roster. That might open your eyes a bit.)

  181. wes says:

    if an american team ever flew in the air and whined on the ground as much as some of these opponents i’ve watched… i would be disgraced. its ef’in pathetic

  182. Tony in Quakeland says:

    I’m a Rongen Agnostic, but it certainly seems like time to get fresh blood in the youth coaching ranks.

  183. Joe B says:

    ugh .. sad display here in the 2nd

    down two after 60 mins: a quality side would have set up shop and owned possession till the final whistle …

    we are clearly not a quality side

  184. Braden says:

    I’d say the British clown has been pretty accurate. We’ve been dismal. We hardly deserve to be on the same field as Korea. I’d say the Honduran U-20 team would probably represent CONCACAF better than we have. He’s just calling it like it is.

  185. aristotle says:

    Why would anyone want this team to go through? Isn’t this enough embarrassment? This is NOT just a nightmare game.

  186. Judging Amy says:

    Anybody else listening to this British Clown commentating?

    Posted by: This Guy | October 02, 2009 at 02:20 PM

    Haven’t been paying close attention but it seems like he’s just talking about how bad we’re playing. Which is true.

  187. This Guy says:

    There’s only one way we go through and that’s if Costa Rica loses by 2.

  188. dnyce says:

    What a joke of a team…

  189. Kevin says:

    I though the commentator has been quite fair. The US have been very poor.

    As for that challenge by Shea a moment ago, that SHOULD have been a red card.

  190. Conor Casey's knee says:

    We are only through if Costa Rica does not get a result.

    We advance because another team loses worse than we do?

    Yeah, I am not sweating =)

  191. Not_Amused says:

    The other thing that annoys me is the constant attempt by our players trying to be fancy on the field, just play simple. Why try and take on two players? why not pass it to the open man? Its the EA Sports FIFA culture, they think its a video game and they are playing as Ronaldo.

  192. Rekro says:

    I think the real question is if we want to go through.
    After this performance I’m not sure, I don’t see us playing any better and the teams in the next round will be a lot tougher opponents.

  193. Judging Amy says:

    Fair point on Rongen Ives. This disaster can’t be laid entirely on him.

  194. Jamie Z. says:

    Why would anyone want this team to go through? Isn’t this enough embarrassment? This is NOT just a nightmare game.

    Posted by: aristotle | October 02, 2009 at 02:23 PM

    You could have easily said that during the first round of the Confederations Cup.

  195. moosecat says:

    ok the coaches aren’t stupid. can i say the entire USSF is scary smart to keep all their jobs while producing zero results.

  196. baquito alyeska says:

    man, that commentator was frustrating. next time ESPN hires that guy, can we at least pair him up with Wynalda so I can listen to Wynalda argue with him?

    not sure why the ref called the PK on Opara for being run into. Opara had as much right to be on that spot on the pitch, in fact he was there first and was making a play for the ball. bad ref is bad.

  197. Not_Amused says:

    why can’t this be laid entirely on him? He chooses his tactics and he chooses his players to play to his tactics? If the players aren’t the right ones, then its the fault of the guy who choose them, unless of course these are the only u20 american players available.

  198. Braden says:

    @Ives

    Does it really matter whether it’s the talent or Rongen? He seems like an average coach, and his team in Canada wasn’t bad, but it’s not a lifetime appointment and losing this big might provide the perfect opportunity to see if someone else in this country can coach U-20s.

  199. Gitecmo says:

    We just got served a steaming pot of Kim Kim Koo with spicy whoop ass sauce.

  200. kobao says:

    gotta agree with you Jamie Z.

    I’ve done my fair share of hating in the past (mostly Bradley hating) but while i may disagree with their strategy these are not dumb people. They have lived and breathed the game their entire life and know infinitely more about it than a lot of us ever could.

    As for the Korea game, what more to say than flat and disapointing?

  201. Conor Casey's knee says:

    I also wonder hoe good SK would be if they didnt hire so many foreign coaches.

    If they stuck with homegrown coaches would they be as good as they are today?

  202. This Guy says:

    That Shea challenge was clean.
    Some of you must be from the new age football where diving is okay and CRonaldo is the best player in the World.
    Ignorant.
    That Shea challenge was a typical Maldini/Baresi challenge that would have gotten applause 10 years ago.

  203. aristotle says:

    Jamie Z:

    That is a really ridiculous comparison. Don’t compare this sad excuse for a team with the USMNT.

  204. Mig says:

    yes, I don’t think it is an knee-jerk reaction to say that Rongen should get canned. This is unacceptable. And I’ve been a fan of his. Did I mention that this is not ok? Wow.

  205. Not_Amused says:

    not sure why the ref called the PK on Opara for being run into. Opara had as much right to be on that spot on the pitch, in fact he was there first and was making a play for the ball. bad ref is bad.

    Posted by: baquito alyeska | October 02, 2009 at 02:28 PM

    Have you even seen a match in your life? He ran into the korean not the other way around.

  206. Angel says:

    of course Ives will no say anything bad against Rongen nor Bob Bradley even tho he know that they both suck as coaches for the USA. Rongen did good job last U20 World Cup because he had Zizzo, Altidore, M. Bradley, Adu, Robbie Roger, Statela, who are better player back then.

    (SBI-Don’t be an idiot. If you read this site with any frequency you would know I criticized Rongen after the first game.)

  207. Jamie Z. says:

    ok the coaches aren’t stupid. can i say the entire USSF is scary smart to keep all their jobs while producing zero results.

    Posted by: moosecat | October 02, 2009 at 02:28 PM

    Zero results? Just what do you consider a result. We made the World Cup quarters in 2002 and just made it to the finals of the Confederations Cup. I’d say the US are actually punching above our weight in recent competitions. We’re a fledgling soccer nation and people expect us to be the big boys overnight with no growing pains. That’s not how it works. Sometimes it takes time to do things right.

  208. Hopper says:

    Brek Shea = Terrible.

    Why does this dude continue to play? He sucks for FC Dallas, and he hasn’t done a positive thing this whole tournament.

  209. fischy says:

    The only good that can come out of this game is that this group of players gets a real wake-up call. Maybe, they get an idea of what it takes to to play at the international level — the fitness required, the cohesion and discipline of 11 players working together, and the sheer skill that is needed to play at this level.

    I don’t know if this group of players has it in them, but they will need a lot more practice than they’ve been getting. They need to be fitter, and they need to be more skillful with the ball.

    Otherwise, we’ll just have to wait for the U17s to grow up. Hopefully, they are better at this game. Watching Ike Opara — who some have claimed would have been the first pick in the last MLS draft — makes me wonder if there is any real ability and understanding of the game in this country. He has not been good. If he’s the best defender in college, we’re in trouble….

  210. Hush says:

    What are the avearage ages on the U.S squad?? Most Koreans are right at 20yrs old. The Germans had a few that were up there too. I can think of atleast 10 players that are 19-20yrs old that could of played in this game for the U.S!:) I’m going to have to check the average age on each team in this group.

  211. This Guy says:

    The EuroSPort British commentator is spot on it’s the other one on the ITV/S1 channel that is the clown

  212. ahm says:

    Joe B you are my idol. I normally get annoyed with the people who constantly whine about the US coaches instead of asking for some responsibility from the players but you my friend are different. Instead of coming in with a silly claim or a FIRE BB post you instead provide us with a wikipedia definition of the straw man fallacy which I guess you hope will sharpen our skills in the debate squad? Anyway I was wondering if you could please tell me what the title of the appropriate fallacy is when someone presents an unprovable opinion as a fact. To be extra kind I’ll give this example, “BB should be fired, we need a a real coach from the international scene, then we’d be much better.” I’ve been wondering what the name for this is, a statement which can in no way be proven either correct or false but somehow the speaker (or in this scenario every whiner out there) takes to be fact. Help me out here my friend

  213. Nathaniel says:

    Germany 3-0 FINAL

  214. Not_Amused says:

    Zero results? Just what do you consider a result. We made the World Cup quarters in 2002 and just made it to the finals of the Confederations Cup. I’d say the US are actually punching above our weight in recent competitions. We’re a fledgling soccer nation and people expect us to be the big boys overnight with no growing pains. That’s not how it works. Sometimes it takes time to do things right.

    Posted by: Jamie Z. | October 02, 2009 at 02:32 PM

    Thats BS Jamie, we lost to SOUTH KOREA!!!! not Brazil, not Argentina, not France, SOUTH KOREA!!!

    I don’t expect a US team to those nations mentioned above, i do expect them to win or at least compete against teams like South Korea. which obviously didn’t happen today.

  215. senevada says:

    wow that was really awful.

  216. Jamie Z. says:

    Jamie Z:

    That is a really ridiculous comparison. Don’t compare this sad excuse for a team with the USMNT.

    Posted by: aristotle | October 02, 2009 at 02:31 PM

    Good idea. Let’s just write them off wholesale. I’m actually going to start a petition to send them all to the guillotine. That’ll show ‘em!

  217. This Guy says:

    ahm,
    Preach on!

  218. aristotle says:

    Jamie Z:

    Interesting that you should mention the 2002 World Cup. The 2002 coach was labeled an imbecile, moron, arrogant, etc. for not advancing out of the 2006 Cup first round in the hardest group in the tournament and with nightmare officiating against him, Bradley gets lots of credit for taking the team backwards.

  219. This Guy says:

    We need Costa Rica to lose by 2 for the US to move on.

  220. Hush says:

    Average age for the U.S squad is 18yrs. Some 19yr old on the squad too. A few 17yr olds also on the squad. Korea average right at 20yrs old!???…. The U.S team looked like an MLS team today!lol Very sloppy!

  221. ahm says:

    By the way I’m not even a huge BB supporter I’m just tired of the coaching staff taking all the blame and the players who never see the field are revered as being the answer. Could someone else do a better job? Almost positively but people griping really isn’t going to change anything so some more insightful opinions rather than the standard “HE SUCKS” would be a nice change. I will admit, it is a little bit like a town’s youth team having a coach with his son on the squad but that isn’t his or Jr.’s fault so lets just move on.

  222. JSmiley says:

    OK, it’s final. And Cameroon loses 3-0 and US finishes third.

    Here’s what’s needed (two of these three have to happen):

    1) England-Uzbekistan draw, or the winner does not improve to a goal difference of -2 or better.

    2) Costa Rica loses by two goals, or by 1-0

    3) Hungary gets blown out by UAE, by four goals, and S. Africa does not win

  223. Aaron says:

    Good to know that these kids have probably already peaked. Here’s to the 17’s…much more expectation with those little buggers.

  224. This Guy says:

    Let throw in some MLS bashing while we are at it.
    I don’t watch MLS because it’s inferior to Europe! Fire Bradley! Fire Rongen! Call in Bernardo! Adu should be at ManU by now! Beasley is garbage (usually shouted from the couch of a Fat American)!

  225. madmax says:

    One of the skill sets that jump out is what each team did from wide positions. For example, early in the match Shea put three or four balls over everyone’s head. Not to pick on him because nearly the entire USA team has poor ball skills.

    As for this game, Korea was just quicker to the ball, more skillful, and better organized, long hopeful balls had no chance. If US scouted their previous match they would have seen these strengths.

  226. KyleFeller says:

    Shea is solid, he’s the only person out of this group that looks like he could turn into a real player.

  227. ELAC says:

    We are a team of limited means of improvement. Limited talent. Limited coaching.

  228. Tony in Quakeland says:

    I am crying tears of joy that we are having homicidal arguments about the coach of our U20 team! We’ve come a long way as a soccer nation…

  229. jrb says:

    Funny considering 95% of this team most likely played their last game ever in a USA shirt.

  230. jrb says:

    Diskerud might be the only one with a chance…terrible team…talent pool is obviously lacking…but Rongen’s fault too…limited adjustments.

  231. This Guy says:

    SBI needs an anger management link.
    Some of you have some serious issues that you need to deal with.
    3 matches and know it alls can tell the future of these kids?
    More ignorance

  232. wes says:

    Anyone else feel that if Opara had Onyewu next to him, that we would be pretty diesel

  233. aristotle says:

    Tony in Quakeland:

    Judging what kind of soccer nation we are based on comments here is a bit silly don’t you think. This isn’t exactly a meeting of the great minds of soccer having a serious discussion on the state of American soccer.

  234. This Guy says:

    I don’t see how any of these players will ever be able to hold down a job once they manage to screw up their soccer futures within the coming months. They will probably all end up homeless. I feel so bad for all of these kids since posters on SBI have already determined their futures for them.

  235. Chris de RBNY says:

    I was in Germany in 2006 and I noticed that the SK fans are the best fans in the world. Sad that it’s us that lost to them, but glad that they got some joy.

  236. Judging Amy says:

    Let throw in some MLS bashing while we are at it.
    I don’t watch MLS because it’s inferior to Europe! Fire Bradley! Fire Rongen! Call in Bernardo! Adu should be at ManU by now! Beasley is garbage (usually shouted from the couch of a Fat American)!

    Posted by: This Guy | October 02, 2009 at 02:43 PM

    MLS is inferior to most European leagues but I still watch it. We shouldn’t fire Bradley. Rongen’s time “might” be up. No on Bernardo. No on Adu. Beasley’s form is in tatters right now and his Nats days are probably over, but he was once such a sick player (I’m in pretty good shape).

    Just wanted to see how I stacked up in terms of your definition of a toolbag US Nats fan haha.

  237. fischy says:

    When Rongen brings this squad out (minus Tony Taylor) in the 2nd half and they win this match the trolling will end.

    Posted by: This Guy | October 02, 2009 at 01:45 PM

    I believe our U17s could beat this U20 squad.

    Posted by: This Guy | October 02, 2009 at 01:49 PM
    —————————————————-

    Normally, the saying holds true about opinions and a–h0les — that everyone’s got one. Sometimes, however, some of us have two opinions.

  238. This Guy says:

    SK didn’t beat us in 2006.

  239. The Truth says:

    @This Guy

    That Shea challenge was clean.
    Some of you must be from the new age football where diving is okay and CRonaldo is the best player in the World.
    Ignorant.
    That Shea challenge was a typical Maldini/Baresi challenge that would have gotten applause 10 years ago.

    LOL – a two-footed jumping lunge with no intention of playing the ball is clean? In what weird reality do you live in?

  240. brandon says:

    kyle – please let me know how brek shea is solid. He has started 3 straight games in an attacking role and he has scored no goals, he has had no assists, and has yet to beat someone in a one on one situation, let alone deliver any quality balls from a wing position.

  241. This Guy says:

    Maybe you meant to lie and say that you were in South Korea in 2002 not Germany in 2006. I was in Germany in 2006 and didn’t see any South Korean fans. I saw alot of American fans though.

  242. This Guy says:

    The Truth,
    When did you start watching soccer?
    Last year probably?

  243. This Guy says:

    TheTruth,
    Another thing is Brek Shea got all ball on that challenge and no player. That was a clean challenge.

  244. Judging Amy says:

    SBI needs an anger management link.
    Some of you have some serious issues that you need to deal with.
    3 matches and know it alls can tell the future of these kids?
    More ignorance

    Posted by: This Guy | October 02, 2009 at 02:49 PM

    The Truth,
    When did you start watching soccer?
    Last year probably?

    Posted by: This Guy | October 02, 2009 at 02:56 PM

    I like it I like it.

  245. JSmiley says:

    Ownby’s “meaningless” goal in added time was the difference between 3rd and 4th place.

  246. fischy says:

    worst officiated game ever opara didn’t touch the player on the first yellow. his second yellow the striker jumped into him and opara was between the man and the ball and shea’s yellow card was all ball. announcers are anti-american as well

    Posted by: pflavin | October 02, 2009 at 02:22 PM
    ———————————————

    Well, I’d say that is one of the best 3 or 4 refs in all of FIFA. He’s consistently great. As for the cards — Opara certainly hit the guy on the first. Of course, the reason he hit the guy might have been because Flores had already tripped him, making it hard for Opara to miss him. The ref did get that one wrong. On the other hand, Opara probably deserved a red for the last foul anyway. He jumped between the defender and the ball and made no effort to play the ball. And there was only the one announcer.

  247. Zac in Indy says:

    @tony. i was just thinking that when i got to the last post.

    Otherwise, I’m glad I’m at work and now don’t have to waste my friday night watching that debacle. That was Gawd Awful.

  248. baquito alyeska says:

    @Not_Amused

    I’ll have to rewatch the play sometime to see if you internet insult is worth it. Immediately before turning off my TV I saw the Korean player turn into Opara’s path to the ball. Grats on the internet insult though, those are always awesome.

    Break Shea left me wondering: is it possible that a person’s second touch be worst than their first touch?

  249. g-dub says:

    Quoting Ives…

    “Thomas Rongen is sure to hear a lot of criticism for the team’s performance in this tournament, as he should, but you have to wonder whether the talent just isn’t there in this cycle. Would a different formation and lineup have made the difference? I’m not so sure after watching these guys play.”

    Agreed about the talent in this cycle. But given that fact it reflects even more poorly on Rongen – clinging to a system that’s difficult for the kids to play, and a challenge to hold midfield in, when all we needed was a tie in this game to advance! To me that’s a coach not properly approaching the game situation.

  250. Sushant Rao says:

    I just watched the 2nd half. There were sooo many long balls that went nowhere. I kept wondering why the US team thought long balls were working. Williams was visibly gassed in the 2nd half.

    I always wondered if a Coach should pick a formation so that the best XI are on the field OR pick the right tactical formation and then pick the right XI for that formation.

    Having watched the game against Cameroon and the 2nd half of the game vs S. Korea, the US has such little possession that we’re better off going with a 4-2-3-1 and keeping the ball a little.

    Even if we get through to the next stage, I bet Rongen comes out with a 4-3-3 :-(

  251. alex says:

    I just think these guys are not comfortable in this system ,it does not suit there styles and that comes down to the coach, I don’t see why Davies doesn’t start if he’s healthy enough to be a sub, this team lacked experience and leadership, it sooo obvious no one was getting on anyone for giving the ball away, or encouraging eachother, that comes down to coaching and picking the right squad which rongen did not do, if we are to take the u20’s seriously then so should the coach and the team and from this display I don’t think so. Rongen should lose his job, its not enough to get there anymore, we want results and we want a team that looks like they know what they are doing. South Korea Looked so confident and so sound, and those kids probably all play in there domestic league, but they are nutured in there system and are tactically aware and sound, our system is so broken becuase we have guys playing every where and on three completly different levels, that needs to change, I think part of making this squad should be you have to be a pro, and I love the they look like an MLS team comments, obviously people who say that don’t watch DC United or Houston, or Chicago, teams that can play the ball around and are technically sound, that type of enironment would have definetly helped some of these guys especially Opara, and Williams who thinks he’s to good for an MLS team. The game today was a disgrace. Eachone of these guys should man up from Rongen on down. I hope they get eliminated so that we dn’t have to put ourselves through another dismal performance.

  252. This Guy says:

    Well, I’d say that is one of the best 3 or 4 refs in all of FIFA. He’s consistently great. As for the cards — Opara certainly hit the guy on the first. Of course, the reason he hit the guy might have been because Flores had already tripped him, making it hard for Opara to miss him. The ref did get that one wrong. On the other hand, Opara probably deserved a red for the last foul anyway. He jumped between the defender and the ball and made no effort to play the ball. And there was only the one announcer.

    Posted by: fischy

    Thanks for your opinion but you’re just some kid on SBI. Why should we listen to you?

  253. julio says:

    Thomas Rogain (I know it’s Roggen) has to take the blame for this. There is no way a team can be so inconsistent without it having to do something with the coach. He has lost them.

  254. SoccerJohn says:

    So, what does it mean for our men’s national team, that the U20 squad looks so poor? Altidore and Adu would have made a difference, but isn’t the weakness of the existing squad cause for concern?

  255. This Guy says:

    @SoccerJohn,
    I think with the U17 being so strong and the NT being relatively young that it will balance itself out in the end.

  256. fischy says:

    Shea is solid, he’s the only person out of this group that looks like he could turn into a real player.

    Posted by: KyleFeller | October 02, 2009 at 02:44 PM
    ——————————————————————

    Well, he’s physically solid — built strong. He’s a long way from being real player.

    As for that tackle — it doesn’t matter that he got the ball. The two-footed jump/slide is a guaranteed card. It’s presumed reckless.

  257. This Guy says:

    @fischy
    What I’m saying is that Football worldwide has gotten so soft that it’s a commonly called foul and card today. It wasn’t like that 5-10 years ago and many of the greats of the game wouldn’t last a half in today’s matches because of all this garbage. It’s just like getting tripped up or kicked in the shin: It’s happened to me alot and I’ve never felt so much pain that I drop to the ground and roll around. If you watch a college soccer match you won’t see one player, not one hit the pitch or fall down. Soccer/Football is just getting gay to be honest.

  258. The Truth says:

    Thanks for your opinion but you’re just some kid on SBI. Why should we listen to you?

    Posted by: This Guy | October 02, 2009 at 03:01 PM

    Sort of applies to you too mr-rose-tinted-on the USSF payroll guy. And by the way, why even speak of Maldini or Baresi, I seriously doubt you watched any football prior to 1994 like most Americans.

  259. This Guy says:

    @The Truth,
    I grew up in Italy. I doubt you know me or what I’ve done.

  260. Fedorov Cadmius says:

    I guess US Soccer has a lame future with these players.

  261. Austin says:

    yes i want them in the 2nd round of course b/c im a fan of all U.S. national teams, but this is unexcusable….they were supposedly the easiest of the group…..where is the consistancy from rhongen and his players

    maybe if they get through they can bring back the mojo from the game against cameroon

    P.S. i would like to see the scenarios on how they could advance

  262. Chris de RBNY says:

    “. . . I was in Germany in 2006 and didn’t see any South Korean fans.”

    I went to more games than just the US games. Korea got 4 points but still managed to get eliminated in group play.

  263. The Truth says:

    @The Truth,
    I grew up in Italy. I doubt you know me or what I’ve done.

    LOL, you don’t know anyone else out here or what they’ve done but you throw aspersions around too. Pot meet kettle. But, here’s where you claim to be some former stud pro player who was unfortunately before his time, was an All-American in college and also have 25 US soccer coaching licenses blah blah blah and played with half the current USMNT when they were kids. Whatever dude.

  264. This Guy says:

    @Chris
    I only watched the matches in KTown.

    @Austin
    It’s posted on the previous page.
    2 of these must happen:

    UAE must win by 5 goals
    England and Uzbek neither can win by 3
    Costa Rica must lose by 2

  265. BellusLudas says:

    Adios Thomas…nice knowing you ;-)

  266. madmax says:

    From the few games I watched, Korea, Ghana, Germany and Spain seem to be the most likely, and Egypt as the home side.

    The Brit announcer had a monkey on his back as England looked even worse in their game against Ghana.

  267. This Guy says:

    @TheTruth
    I never claimed to be pro or anything. I played until I was 15 and then quit playing when I moved to the States for good. My father was American so I moved to Indianapolis with him when he got a job at the Speedway. I joined the Army outta high school because I felt American and I felt pride. I got out of the Army 6 months ago after 12 years in. I was Airborne Infantry, stationed most of my time in Italy with the 173rd.
    Anything else you wanna know?

  268. celangto3 says:

    Im sorry to hear all of your comments. Is like some of the players are actually in Queaker land like a writer said. No good player or foward could actually work or look any good with this midfield. The midfield dont target there foward. Taylor nor Marosevic could do anything onless they drop and play midfield. Usually Taylor does that I have seen him play but there were concerns about Taylor hamstring and he had to sit out, and there goes the game. There is not much a foward can do, you cant blame theme after all is a team. And this foward are more talented then Altidore or Adu so stop comparing that with this midfield not even them could have done anything. If Taylor is out tell me what happend after he did came out NOTHING!! HE IS NOT THE PROBLEM IS THE MIDFIEL AND THE DEFENCE GAVE OUT 7 GOALS!!!!

  269. Austin says:

    federov, you obviously are not a fan of the US

    this guy said it correctly…..the US(mens) team itself is EXTREMELY young, rhongen is an awful NATIONAL TEAM coach and some like duka on U-20’s still have potential, U-17 team is great, adu, altidore, bernardo, boths garzas, and a. wallace were not called up and they have great futures ahead of them, so US Soccer is in no apparent danger in the future…..if the US team does not advance in this tournament my friend rongen has to go, no doubt…..are future is not in danger but he is dangerous seeing that tournaments like this can ruin players like Brek Shea and Ike Opara for the rest of there careers

  270. cjbrown says:

    hate to say it but hope they do not get another game. If they play a really good team, they could be the first USA team in ages to really get shelled. (Putting aside the 5-0 in the Gold Cup final). I certainly do not see any future talent here. Then again, maybe Wrongen rejected the nextSubotic but he has no other country to play for.

  271. Tony in Quakeland says:

    aristotle: Umm, joking. Chose to make a wise crack rather than join the anger fest.

  272. Juan Carlos Osorio says:

    hmmmm…I see that the US Coach followed my suggestions.

  273. Mig says:

    See, it doesn’t matter that this group is not that talented. Here’s what good footballing nations do when they show like they have this tourney: they sack the coach. France is, of course, the exception. Players not good enough? Well Rongen picked ‘em. Formation not right….ditto. Bad officiating? Can’t hide behind that on this one. Utter lack of discipline? Yup, that’s coaching too.

    No malice, but a soccer coach does NOT survive that debacle.

  274. Xander Crews says:

    Alright, so it’s the U20 World Cup. It doesn’t mean that the senior team is in dire straits in the near future, because so much of the core group of the senior squad is so young, and reportedly the U17 team is exceptional. Let’s not forget that two others who are age-eligible for this team are Altidore and Adu…

    Still, the thing that annoys me the most about US Soccer is its over-reliance on the same retread coaches. Rongen has always been a horrible coach, yet he still seems to find work with US Soccer. You can’t tell me that with all the quality youth teams and the quality colleges out there that US Soccer can’t come up with someone better?

  275. advocat says:

    We are witnessing another USSf failure. Look at the player selection. Not a one has a soccer brain. Probably soccer IQ deficient. The simplest passing maneuvers unattainable. The soccer basics of geometry and timing are devoid. How were these players selected? were they the fastest? The tallest? It is obvious that nothing was learned from the Adu fiasco. The future of US soccer is bleak. Although it has been observed that the American brain lacks the quick, spontaneous, improvisational brain power, player selection flaws are also extant.

  276. Sloman says:

    I was embarrassed to see such an unorganized and undisciplined gang representing our country. Skill is not the lacking factor. Cameroon likewise played without organization and we won big. Germany left their best players at home, played with organization and won big. Korea was a better organized and better disciplined TEAM, they won big. We had good players playing pick-up soccer.

  277. The Truth says:

    To all the clowns (ie. ‘This Guy’) who think the Brek Shea challenge was “clean” or legal – I’ll quote an official from the English Premiership.

    “A player who jumps into a tackle two-footed is not in control of himself and therefore if he makes contact with the player, ball and player, or if the referee determines there to be excessive malice in the challenge, he will be dismissed.

    “There has been no ‘clampdown’ on the tackle or new directive issued referees are simply applying the law as it has always stood.”

    link to independent.co.uk

    It is ILLEGAL to dive in with a two-footed tackle, regardless of if you get the ball or not. This is evident everytime you watch the EPL, Serie A, La Liga or whatever and you see a player called for a foul when he does it. Frankly Shea was lucky he didn’t get sent off and to claim that Maldini and Baresi did this on a regular basis is total bs.

  278. Sloman says:

    I was embarrassed to see such an unorganized and undisciplined gang representing our country. Individual skill is not the lacking factor. Cameroon likewise played without organization and we won big. Germany left their best players at home, played with organization and won big. Korea was a better organized and better disciplined TEAM, they won big. We had good players playing pick-up soccer.

  279. Andy in Atlanta says:

    For as bad as we have played…. and as frustrating as the team has been to watch… We only need to Costa Rica to lose 1-0 or by two clear goals and we are on to the second round…

    Just recall the Confed Cup…teams can grow as a tourney progresses… it is all well and good to play 3 up front but I think we need to go with the old 442 and boss the midfield a little bit.

  280. Zero says:

    in order to advance, the US must be within the top 4 3rd placed teams

    4 groups are now done

    A ITA 4 pts, -1 GD, 4 GF

    B NGA 3 pts, -2 GD, 3 GF

    C USA 3 pts, -3 GD, 4 GF

    D UZB 1 pt , -4 GD, 2 GF

    from the above, ITA is definitely in and UZB is definitely out

    Group E is currently

    BRA 1-1-0, 4 pts, +5 GD, 5 GF

    CZE 1-1-0, 4 pts, +1 GD, 2 GF

    CSC 1-0-1, 3 pts, -2 GD, 3 GF

    AUS 0-0-2, 0 pts, -4 GD, 1 GF

    matches CSC vs CZE & AUS vs BRA

    Group F is currently

    UAE 1-1-0, 4 pts, +1 GD, 3 GF

    HON 1-0-1, 3 pts, +2 GD, 3 GF

    HUN 1-0-1, 3 pts, +1 GD, 4 GF

    RSA 0-1-1, 1 pt , -4 GD, 2 GF

    matches HUN vs UAE & RSA vs HON

    so Group F first

    if HON wins or ties, RSA is out

    if RSA wins, then they move to 4 points and are in at least as a 3rd place team

    if HUN wins or ties, they are in

    If UAE wins (UAE already in at least as a 3rd placed side with 4 points)

    then HUN could drop if they lose by more than 4 goals. not very likely, This group probably has 3 teams coming from it

    Group E next

    AUS is already out

    it’s all down to Costa Rica (CSC)

    BRA and CZE are already in at least a 3rd place spot by having 4 points

    CSC win or tie and they are in

    If CSC loses to CZE, then the US may sneak in, depending on the score

    CSC is already at a -2GD, so a loss would only increase that (and confirm NGA advancing as the top 3rd place team at 3 points with the highest GD of -2)

    If CSC loses by 2 or more, then the US would get in.

    If CSC loses by 1, and they score 2 goals, then they are in and the US is out (GF being the tiebreak after GD). If CSC scores one goal and loses by 1 (a 2-1 loss), then they have an identical record in GD and GF, and the next tiebreak is fair play.

    So, the US better be hoping for the czechs to win tomorrow

  281. TimN says:

    I didn’t get to see this game, but I really don’t need to. The scores tell it all. 3-0 losses to both Germany and South Korea tell me this U-20 group isn’t ready for prime time. I sure hope the MNT system can somehow avoid needing to call up guys from this cycle, because if they have to, it tells me there are many more years of 2nd tier status for the US Senior MNT to come. Pathetic…

    I’ve never been a big fan of the youth development system in the US. There’s WAY TOO MUCH emphasis on things being result based, rather than skill based. In Holland for example, youth players don’t even compete in tourneys that mean anything until they are 14 or older. In the US, there are 8, 9, 10 year-old kids playing on traveling teams that are all about winning, rather than skill development. It’s ridiculous. As well, all of these “select” leagues that we have here cater to the wealthy that can afford it. Poorer kids who could possibly be great soccer players often don’t get a chance to participate in our youth system because they don’t have the often $1000+ needed to join and travel with a team.

  282. Frank says:

    You have to know how to pass the ball to win at this, or any, level. Our pass completions per attempt probably looked similar to bad NFL QB (<50%) as opposed to a soccer game.

  283. r.benjamin says:

    This game was awful all around.

    The play of the LB and RB was astrocious.

    CBs not much better. Midfield put nothing togeher. Forwards contributed weak efforts.

    I actually think Shea, the keeper, Duka and maybe Opara are the only ones with any chance at all of ever playing for the Sr team. and thats a stretch. I cant see Williams or Flores even in the MLS.

    Rongren’s formation made so sense either. Shea and Taylor or Cruz up top and add another MF. They had zero possession in the middle.

  284. Neuwerld says:

    Ugh, oh man, I don’t think it’s on the coach. Most of these guys just aren’t that good.

  285. chelski002 says:

    That player should receive a red card a a three game ban. That aint no soccer player. The kind of player I hated my whole life. Nothing to do with the game. The class players need to be protected. Might as well start at the junior level with enforcement. If you want to watch bad wrestling, then watch Rugby, NFL, or UFC.

  286. 123 says:

    Your right U-17 could have done better

  287. EA says:

    “I cant see Williams or Flores even in the MLS.”

    I suggest you don’t watch a Chivas USA game anytime soon.

  288. madmax says:

    I haven’t read a lot of post game yet, but I believe Rongen has not accepted any responsibility for the performance.

  289. Ed says:

    Rongen to DC United? ;)

  290. Tim says:

    This team was horrendous and I most definitely don’t want to see them play again

  291. madmax says:

    Good fall back,
    England was worse.

  292. timF says:

    Why is there no pressure on Rongen? Why does he get a pass? Becuase Freddy Adu and Altidore got him to the quarters in 07?

    If you are going to just blame the players, then why did Hackworth get fired for the u17 tourney? Some of those players are now u20s and got the same results. The difference: Hackworth got fired after the u17 tourney. Someone said its because Rongen has done well in previous tournaments. Well Hackworth won his 2005 u17 group with 7 points beating Italy, Korea DPR and drawing Ivory Coast. Far better a result than Rongen’s 07 group.

  293. Austin says:

    we played horribly that first game and third game….but we are not knocked out yet for 1 and 2 they did have one win atleast and a big win

    3. WHICH IS MOST IMPORTANT to those saying they cant pass….FIFA possesion had US with 51, that means the passing cant get too awful

    people are flipping out for no reason about the future of US soccer….our US mens team is young, adu, altidore, wallace, g garza, s garza, bernardo were not called up, we have talent on this team, but we have an ignorant coach….AND OUR U-17/U-18 team is unbelievable, i was looking at it on ussoccer.com and we have two chelsea youths, two arsenal youths, and one barcelona youth……calm down, its really starting to annoy me when people start whining about the future of USsoccer

  294. Austin says:

    EA, williams doesnt play in MLS….Flores and Mayen play for Chivas USA, cruz for houston, marosevic for chicago, and shea, lambo, davies for dallas

  295. madmax says:

    Rongen should not get a pass for the Korea game based on talent, roster, etc. Good preparation and tactics can often even these out. The USA was not ready for Korea’s quickness, they were unprepared.

    If you saw the Czech vs Brazil match you saw how an lesser team on talent could neutralize the other with preparedness and tactics. Czechs played ugly but got a point.

    Why Rongen walks free on this is beyond belief.

  296. EA says:

    @ Austin…

    That was my point. Flores is ALREADY in MLS.

  297. Alex G says:

    This is a disgraceful performance, I cant believe this team, no hearth, no ambitions, the only thing they had to do was tie the game, awful and discouraging.

  298. Nats fan says:

    Let throw in some MLS bashing while we are at it.
    I don’t watch MLS because it’s inferior to Europe! Fire Bradley! Fire Rongen! Call in Bernardo! Adu should be at ManU by now! Beasley is garbage (usually shouted from the couch of a Fat American)!

    Posted by: This Guy | October 02, 2009 at 02:43 PM

    MLS is inferior to most European leagues but I still watch it. We shouldn’t fire Bradley. Rongen’s time “might” be up. No on Bernardo. No on Adu. Beasley’s form is in tatters right now and his Nats days are probably over, but he was once such a sick player (I’m in pretty good shape).

    Just wanted to see how I stacked up in terms of your definition of a toolbag US Nats fan haha.

    Posted by: Judging Amy | October 02, 2009 at 02:52 PM

    Judging Amy (never liked that show): A little more thoughtful than some other fans but on MLS you still make “This Guy”‘s point. Is MLS SUPPOSED to be on par with most leagues in Europe? The league is less than 15 years old, soccer is MAYBE the 5th most popular team sport in this country and yet the sport has still grown leaps and bounds in this country over that time despite barely being on most U.S. sports fans radar. A large part of that has been the steady, consistent growth and improvement in the quality of play and support of MLS. The better the domestic league does the better the USMNT team will ultimately be since they groom our young talent. Most top European clubs won’t be taking any of our elite players into their academies so let’s support and build up what we have instead of just casually dismissing it out of hand.