It was bound to happen eventually, but not like this.
The U.S. men's national team's unbeaten streak against Mexico on American soil began modestly enough back in 2000, when Mexico fielded a patchwork team consisting of the players from just two Mexican league teams. Nobody seemed to care though as the American rattled off a 3-0 victory.
Some nine years and 11 meetings on American soil without a win later, Mexico FINALLY exacted revenge and it did so in brutal fashion, taking apart an understrength and inexperienced U.S. team made up of mostly younger MLS players hoping to make the fringes of the 2010 World Cup team.
Just how strong or weak the U.S. team was is of little consequence to a Mexican team that wasn't at full-strength either. What matters to Mexicans after Sunday's 5-0 thrashing of the United States is that the jinx is over, or so it seems, and 'El Tri' has reason to feel good about its national team program just a few months after Mexico's entire national team program was in a world of hurt following another coach firing and terrible start to World Cup qualifying.
So just what went wrong? How did a U.S. team that had allowed three goals in five previous Gold Cup games (and three goals in its five previous meetings vs. Mexico) suddenly surrender five goals in 33 minutes?
It was simple. It faced a team capable of ripping its defense apart if only it could score that first goal. While the first goal came on a questionable penalty call (Jay Heaps did catch an elbow in the face, but he also had a handful of jersey before the elbow), it cannot be denied that Mexico was already beginning to find cracks in the U.S. defense before Gerardo Torrado's 57th minute penalty kick.
When Javier Aguirre replaced the ineffective Alberto Medina with the extremely dangerous Carlos Vela, and moved Giovani Dos Santos to a roaming playmaker role, the stage was set for the slaughter. The Americans had a handful of chances before that change to score the first goal and put the pressure on Mexico, which is what the U.S. had done so successfully for much of its home unbeaten streak, but those chances were wasted by terrible finishing.
Yes, the penalty changed matters, but assuming the U.S. defense could have held up against Mexico's speedy assault without that call is a big assumption considering the chances Mexico created just before the penalty. In the end, the result wasn't as much about one penalty as it was about one team being perfectly-suited to expose the weakness of the other.
Could this result spark Mexico? It certainly could, but losing 5-0 could also light a fire under a U.S. program that may have grown too accustomed to beating Mexico. Listening to Brian Ching after the game and seeing the anger in his face, tells me there may yet be some value in the lesson learned from Sunday's loss.
Does the loss erase what has been an otherwise great summer for the U.S. national team? Not really, though it might feel that way the day after the slaughter. Once the dust settles and we begin to take stock of what we learned this summer, the U.S. team will still come away having made significant progress and having learned plenty about the talent pool a year before the 2010 World Cup.
For those of you who missed it, here is my piece on the USA-Mexico game for ESPN. The player grades are at the bottom of that piece. I won't re-post them here. I'll only add that of my grade comments I probably overdid the Troy Perkins comments. It's way too early to say that he's locked up the No. 3 goalkeeper spot, but he's certainly put himself in position for it, something I definitely didn't see coming.
If you haven't seen the highlights (er, lowlights), and if you're ready to watch the carnage one more time, here is the video:
What did you think of Sunday's match? Are you angry and irate, or have you put the loss into perspective? Does the result make you even more anxious for August 12th to get here? Do you see the Americans copying Mexico by finally breaking their losing streak in Mexico?
Share your thoughts on the Gold Cup final, and the entire tournament, in the comments section below.
I can’t stand Lalas but what he said post-game was right on for me. Perspective is the key word. On top of all that, all that matters is that we qualify for South Africa and we are in good shape for that.
I will say it does blow having all the Mexican supports here at work holding up their hand at me… and they aren’t saying hi
Well, this hurts. The only solace I can see from this is motivation for the Aug 12 game for us and the fact that they had far more of their first team (Pardo, Ochoa, Torrado, GDS) than we did. Aug 12 can’t come soon enough. Its time for US to end their string at Azteca!!
First of all, people need to stop saying this is our C team because its not. Its our B team. Our A team consists of the 23 players that will be taken to the World Cup. The next 23, which is pretty much who Bradley brought to the Gold Cup, is our B team.
While we are at it, people also need to stop saying Mexico had half their starters playing. They didn’t. That team consisted of A team’s bench and B team. They are more like the Clarks, the Klijsteins, and the Bornsteins if compared to the US players. Torrado would be the only one that may be starting. First choice gk is still Sanchez (lets hope it stays that way b/c the other one is better). Gio and Vela are both not starters right now although they should be after that performance. Castillo, Gio, Vela, and Guardado will never start all at the same time so either Vela or Gio will not be starting on the 12th.
When you lose 5-0 to your rivals, the coach needs to take some of the blame along with the players. I don’t blame him for the team he brought and the players he started, but 5-0 is just embarrasing and when you lose that badly, something is wrong tactically. Why do we decide to play no defense with 30 minutes left to play when it is only 1-0? Is Bradley the one that told Beckerman, Pause, Pearce, and Heaps to not defend anymore? Or did the players decide on their own? If they did, Bradley should have done something. Now I’m not saying the loss is all Bradley’s fault because clearly, we didn’t have the players to match Mexico’s players but he needs to take some blame.
Now on to the players. Besides the normal A team players that played in this tournament, I do not want to see anyone else play for the national team in a meaningful game ever again. Not Rogers, not Marshall, not Holden. They are not good enough. Ching was horrible yesterday but I feel bad for him for having to play with these players that give up so easily in a final vs their biggest rival. I hope he starts on the 12th and yes, he is still better than both Altidore and Davies.
I think the result was expected but the scoreline is what got many fans upset. I’m looking forward to the 12th and I have a good feeling we will take this one.
I’m disappointed in the result, but still convinced the U.S. can win next month at Azteca. This game will definitely make Mexico more confident though, which seems to have been a problem for them recently.
I still don’t understand why Vela had so much green around him which lead to the chances before, and ultimately to, the second goal. Where was Heaps?
ives,
why does your staff keep taking down my post, about how bad the mexican fans were yesterday… i was at the game, as i am sure many fans of the site were…
it was an ugly scene..bottles thrown…beer spraying.. I had things thrown at me at least 10 times…
bring in the big guns boys, were going to assualt them like they wouldn’t believe at the Azteca…
Can I say one thing? what we needed on that field…was Landon Donovan he brings so much emotion and pride to a mexico match I really do think he could have been a mexico killer in that match.
NOW those players have been baptized by the international game. If you wanna continue to play with the big boys, you’ve gotta figure out how to get better from this. But that was the point of this Gold Cup for Bradley all along–to see who could help us down the road and who couldn’t. Some of these guys merit a WC qualifying callup down the road if we can clinch early; most just wilted and need to step up their games if they want future callups. Is anybody really shocked by this?
I don’t know how much bearing it has on Aug. 12. If Aguirre takes a hint from this game and starts Vela and Dos Santos, then the US could be in a lot of trouble. On the other hand, Mexico won’t have Jay Heaps to kick around anymore.
It sucks losing to Mexico, but we learned that our B-/C+ team is basically better than almost everybody else in CONCACAF, which is an improvement from 7-8 years ago.
Thought Perkins was mediocre. Positioning problems, not a great distributor, has a hard time communicating with his midfield. Frankly, I’d rather see either Hahnemann or a very young US GK in South Korea. The drop-off from Howard/Guzan to Perkins is absolutely enormous.
Perkins has improved in Norway but isn’t good enough for the international level.
I still chalk this up to the Manager.
May I point out that we have had 2 finals where the team lost its legs in the 2nd half. Why? Because Bradley is not using his personnel to give him some legs at the end.
He still makes changes way too late. The Manager has a lot to learn from this.
The players? Again, the manager should have had them prepared mentally and tactically for the circumstance.
Robbie Rogers had a couple of chances he should have finished. Son…you are a professional, take your chances like one. Blowing balls over the goal just is not good enough. At minimum, put it on frame for God’s sake.
That’s what happens when you bring a team that’s not fit to win a competition that you’re all but expected to win. It sucks because its so easy to make excuses about this game but thats what Mexican fans want us to do so they can jump all over us. Hopefully our real squad is pissed and ready to set things straight so this horrendous tournament is avenged.
If the Mexicans can get so excited about beating a “C” U.S. team, then fine. There’s but a handful of guys that we were fielding in this tourney that will have any chance of heading to South Africa.
If they want to say “The streak is over. Ole’!,” then whatever. I think if they’re being honest with themselves they know that had they been playing the U.S. team that just finished the Confed Cup, NO FREAKIN WAY a 5-0 win would have happened, and probably no win at all.
I was not angry at all…. i understand who was on the field…. i am glad this young players got to experience the good tings and being trash by Mexico…. now just look up and move one… Aug 12 is right around the corner… and will see how strong US has become by their reaction!!
I was trashed by the Mexican fans…. they threw bear at me and some dude came and scream at my girl….. they threw a beer bottle at us…. but you know what i left… and congratulate them… i have never trash them with anything… but we have to be the better dudes and smile back at them….
US fans showed up and support it their team…… One day maybe my grandson… will be able to attend a game where US fans will pack the place up.
Aug. 12….. i am really thinking about going down there….. i know US team will show up angry at what happen in NY………….
So their JV beat our JV. Big deal. It stinks, but get over it. Probably will have very good benefits for those that were on the field and totally lost the plot in that 33 minute shelling. The real metric of where things stand will be decided on Aug. 12 and I favor our boys to end that long standing streak that day.
I posted this in yesterday’s comments, but really late, but I think the points are still important.
Oh noes…. a group of MLS and Scandanavian hacks lost to some of Mexico’s starters.
Oh… The horror!!!
Please. Argentina lost a WORLD CUP QUALIFIER to Bolivia, 6-1.
Bad losses happen.
Reality check:
The only players that are higher than third-choice at their position are:
1. Brian Ching
2. Heath Pearce (and he IS third choice behind Bocanegra and Bornstein, and from what I’ve seen from Edgar Castillo… it looks like Heath may be moving down….)
Aaaaaaaand we’re done.
Seriously, look at some of these guys:
RB-Spector-Dolo-Hejduk-Wynne-Simek-Moor-HEAPS
CB-Gooch-DeMerit-(Bocanegra)-Califf-Conrad-GOODSON-MARSHALL
CM-Bradley-(Jones)-Edu-Clark-Feilhaber-Torres-Mastroeni-Holden-Kljestan-BECKERMAN-a few others I’m not thinking of-PAUSE
F-Ching-Altidore-Davies-(Donovan-Dempsey)-Casey-Johnson-Adu-Rolfe(?)-ARNAUD
Some of these guys are WAAAAAAAAY down the list.
I’ll pick a true second string, for argument’s sake:
GK-Guzan
D-Cherundolo-Califf-Conrad(?)-Bornstein
M-Kljestan (or Holden, if you prefer)-Clark-Feilhaber (or maybe Edu-Torres???)-Beasley
F-Davies-Eddie Johnson (or Cooper/Adu?)
Look at the 15 or so players I have listed. Not one is a full time starter. In fact, once Jones is added to the team, none really have any claim to a starting position. Yet, none of those players were on the field today.
Do you really think THAT team (the team above) would have a problem with the Mexico team we saw today?
Yes, losing 5-0 sucks. Losing 5-0 to a rival sucks even more.
But save the drama and hyperbole, folks.
Wake me up when Mexico drops 5 on Timmy, Deuce, Landon and Gooch.
Two finals, two choke jobs. Nice to see them make both tourney finals, but I think both games spoke volumes on how much further each group of players still has to grow. I am not sure how anyone could call this a B team though, when most of the players were earning their first caps or first starts in this tourney.
Japan, IMO 11 of your best players are considered your A team, not the 23 man group, thats crazy.
Let’s never speak of this game again. I want to erase it from my memory. I can’t wait until Aug. 12 when Sam’s Army goes down to Mexico and kicks some @$$.
Ives, any word on what the “special announcement” will be by Don Garber at the All-Star game press conference?
link to web.mlsnet.com
I’m hearing it concerns an expansion team in Montreal.
I think anyone involved should be embarassed. You shouldn’t loss by 5 goals period, but in a final it is even more embarassing. I was embarassed watching it. I live 5 minutes from the stadium and am glad I didn’t go. Seems a combination of a couple factor. Bradley was clearly out coached as he did nothing to break the stailmate during the half, were as Aguirre did. Then once the goal was conceded pretty much everyone but Perkins and Ching laid down and took it. Bradley again made poor and ill timed substitutions, (not that he had any options due to poor team selection). He basicially handcuffed himself by having no additional options for defenders on the flank and Mexico burned them.
I think it is a sad end to a fantastic run by the team but honestly such a lopsided defeat must kill most of the confidence these guys built over the tournament.
The Nats really are a feast or famine situation and it usually seems to come down to coaching and tactics. If Bradley gets it right the team looks unstoppable, but when he gets it wrong it is embarassing. They needed a spark or a stop gap and when Bradley looked down his bench he had nothing and that is his fault. It doesn;t erase all the good from this summer but it doesn’t make me feel secure that he is the right man for the job either.
@Japan Aguirre would have to be an idiot not to give Dos Santos, Vela and a few other of the top players from yesterday’s team starting roles for the Aug. 12 match or substitute roles.
Mexico hasn’t exactly been overwhelming in WCQ so far, which is why Aguirre has his job in the first place.
So in reality there are more “A” team players who were on the field yesterday for Mexico than the US (just one: Ching).
Our JV team played well for as long as it could. This loss was bound to happen, but I am embarrased by the way the US laid down in the 2nd half…they should be ashamed of themselves. Losing 3-0 or 3-1 is fine when you are outmatched talent wise, but these kids gave up in the last 10 minutes and thats uncalled for. However I am not dwelling on this whatsoever and none of us should. The same thing happened in Copa America…we should not judge until after the world cup next year when the ultimate test is before us. Our program as a whole is miles ahead of where it was before both of these summer tournaments and that bodes well for next year. We should all forget yesterday happened as soon as possible especialy since Azteca looms in 2 week where we can exact our revenge, nothing less than a point should satisfy us.
ives,
why does your staff keep taking down my post, about how bad the mexican fans were yesterday… i was at the game, as i am sure many fans of the site were…
it was an ugly scene..bottles thrown…beer spraying.. I had things thrown at me at least 10 times…
It was awesome, being 1 of about 35 US Supporters in the crowd for this game.
Way to go guys!
Though Mexico wasn’t at full strength it was much closer then the US in all aspects. Additionally relying on Mexican league players is a much better option then relying on MLS players who showed everything that wrong with the MLS. Bradley refusal to make adjustments before losing momentum is also a huge reason why the collapse occured, he simply want bring on subs until around the 65-70 minute range. Regardless of the mistakes players or the coach made once Bradley sent home Feilhaber and Davies you simply had to wonder what he was thinking as all the quality on the team was gone. So what do the regular US players take out of this? For Ching I guess you cann’t blame him for upsetting but will Donovan, Onyewu and others feel the same way? They already want to win down there do they really need extra motivation? Is Bradley playing head games? did he just not want to play any of his guns so close to the August 12th match? I think US Soccer and MLS has to focus on getting its US players up to speed to the international level. For the USMNT they can’t get too caught up in this lost considering who was playing or in loosing or tieing in Azteca. That said there are still plenty of questions to be asked about yesterday’s game and why they couldn’t shoot straight and totally imploded on its self. I blame on the players lack of big game experience. when things finally went wrong against a big opponent they simply didn’t know what to do. Mexico ain’t Haiti or Honduras! If this bunch wants to ever play on the National Team again they are going to have to make massive improvements on their game.
Do people really believe Brad Guzan is better than Perkins? I don’t buy that at all.
Ives,
Great environment at the game, but extremely dissapointing.
I am a youth coach (National D)and was trying to point out all the niceties of high standard soccer to my 13 yr old son. Even he started pointing out how we lacked “second defender” cover in many of the goals we conceded. For example on the 4th goal none of our players challenged Mexico at the top of the box which allowed their forward to sneak in. The wing backs were non existent (I fully agree with your Heaps rating). The two successive unsuccessful off-side traps after we conceded the first goal (Perkins came up big) really left me with a feeling that our team was genuinely scared.
Fact is in order for us to be world class we need to be consistent. In South Africa, we were extremely lucky to make it to the semis (winning big against Egypt and Italy losing big against Brazil) and made the best of our second chance. Also, in 2002 we were fortunate that Korea beat Portugal – Poland had killed us, allowing us to advance.
I am not into couda, shouda – but we need to play consistently.
Lalas did push keeping things in perspective, but he wasn’t fair about it. He stressed that this isn’t the US’s A team, but to keep things in perspective, this isn’t Mexico’s A team either. I don’t know how many times people like Ives can stress this yet the readers can’t comprehend it.
And to clarify another comment, Pardo did not play this tournament.
Hats off to Mexico. They took care of business. And what’s with the repeated comments on roudy Mexican fans? I wasn’t at the match but it seemed that every other camera pan of Sam’s Army showed fans in the group giving people the finger. There’s bad apples in every bunch.
CBR, since when did a “team” consist of only 11 players? It includes everyone in the squad. If you were BB and was asked to bring your A team to South Africa, you’re only going to bring 11 players?
AUGUST 12… oh man oh man… we will sing of that day for years…
oh and someone please slap Bretos
Amen Kyle!!..
@KyleFeller I understand how you feel. I was at the Honduras match at RFK, and it felt like there were a 75/25 split between Honduras/US fans, if not worse. During the National Anthem for both teams, the difference in support was quite shocking! Good for US supporters, the Catracho team didn’t give their supporters much to cheer about.
There were some beer cups thrown at RFK from the upper level down to the field and lower level stands in the last 10 minutes of the game, as it became clear the US would win. Sounds like the Meadowlands yesterday was worse.
I think EA hit teh nail on the head in terms of how deep we were reaching into the pool.
One thing I wonder about is why people are hating (mostly yesterday) on the FSC broadcasters, Bretos and whatshisname. I thought they weren’t that bad, and definitely better than their counterparts at ESPN (Harkes and Delacama. All Harkes and Delacama can talk about is how Tim Howard is one of the “top 5″ keepers in England, how Dempsey plays for Fulham, and how Alitdore is young. I kind of enjoyed the FSC guys talk about the other team’s players, something that is totally lacking on ESPN broadcasts of most USMNT matches. And you can’t say their tactical insight is worse than the ESPN guys
1. This was our B-/C+ team. List our starters and bench subs for our first choice team. List the same for our second choice team. Chad Marshall is the only guy who makes the B team. Perkins makes third GK–maybe.
That said, that doesn’t excuse a major butt-kicking by El Tri. Ives, you make a great point about a team designed to exploit the team it faced. Their frontline speed was the single biggest deficit with our backline.
2. I was never convinced we were going to win in Azteca. Folks–get a wakeup call–we’re like 1 tie and 20 losses in our last 21 matches there. I thought a good result for us would be a draw (and a bad result for Mexico). But if they get a win now (not unexpected), you’ve got to believe the El Tri will be on a high, looking at two consecutive wins over the USA.
3. Putting Heaps on the team was a mistake. If you’re going to put someone who has no NT future, than at least pick a guy who’s having a better season (like Namoff). I don’t blame the loss on Heaps. But he was clearly overmatched most of the time he was on the field and for what purpose? It’s not like we blooded him for the future or added to our depth. Drew Moor (despite his poor play at the Copa) would have been a better choice–at least he has a potential future with the NT.
4. I’d have moved Holden to central midfield. Pause really disappointed me this tournament. Against good teams, he really didn’t impress.
Can we stop saying this was a young team!! Their average age was 26 or 27 years old! The starting forwards average age was 30! So seriously, stop it. It was a team of very bad players + Holden.
First off I gotta give props where props are due:
Frank-Enjoy your earnings my friend. $I could use 5 bills myself right about now.
Christian: You might be right. “Sometimes the more things chance the more they stay the same”. I consider yesterday to be another “reality check”.
Props to Mexico and their supporters on their HUGE demolition of our side yesterday.
Having handled that business onto trying to evaluate a result that I can’t describe as being anything other than an utter failure.
I am still trying to process the smackdown debacle that was yesterday (shocker, when I woke up this morning no miracles had taken place and the result was just as humilitating as it was yesterday).
It wasn’t just being outclassed and embarrassed–it was the squad’s lack of mental fortitude of mental toughness. I am not doubting their efforts. I am not even doubting their heart. It now seems painfully clear that most of them were in over their heads but if you don’t have a chance to fail and get a smackdown then you will never know if you can bounce back from adversity; Yesterday, the US couldn’t do it.
They fell apart after the penalty. Will any of the players benefit from the painful experience–I sure as heck hope so. But it was not just one guy. It was several guys. They went from competing to being routed in what seemed like it was light speed.
Some guys showed me that they are not ready for a BIG international game yet. Maybe one day they will be. Hopefully one day they will be. But they aren’t ready now. Sometimes the only way to accelerate the process is to be taken to the woodshed. That sort of beating either makes you stronger or completely underminds your confidence. The future will tell us a little about which guys can advance and which guys can’t play at even the semi-elite CONCACAF level.
I was bitterly angry over the result yesterday. I am still very disraught over it today. Yes, it hurts more because it is Mexico. I understand the nature of the squads that both sides fielded but let’s keep it real. Outside of Panama what team that has recently made it to a WCQ hex brought all of their big boys??? But you still have to respond better than they did yesterday.
What this says about the match in Azteca, I don’t know. I don’t think that we will know until after we see that result. Motivation via humiliation for the US? Or Mexico, after sending a “B” second team, finding it’s mojo?
Will this be a case of one B team’s result inspiring it’s A team to obtain a better result in an even higher profile match or will it be the case of B team’s result adding more pressure on a A team that clearly didn’t need the stakes raised for the match in Azeca.
Which is to say that. The stakes are most definitely raised for the Azteca date. I didn’t really anticipcate that was going to be possible prior to yesterday. If you are the US you gotta go to Azteca and get the stench off of the program from yesterday’s preformance. You have to get a good result (preferably WIN). If you are Mexico, do you really want to be embarrassed at home by not taking all three points after you B team came to the States and provided such a dominant performance? There is more pressure on both A teams now. We’ll see if it is just “more of the same” and if one of the clubs is going to step up with another “statement” performance…
First of all, people need to stop saying this is our C team because its not. Its our B team. Our A team consists of the 23 players that will be taken to the World Cup. The next 23, which is pretty much who Bradley brought to the Gold Cup, is our B team.
Posted by: japan | July 27, 2009 at 10:23 AM
Sorry, you are wrong here. “A” team are your starters (and a couple subs) “B” team are your reserves (rest of 23 + a couple). Some of these players are not even “C” team(Heaps, Pause)
Yes, it was a whipping. Mexico played well after Vela came in. However, I was surprised that this U.S. team even made it to the championship game. I have been a Bradley critic, but do not think it is deserved here for yesterday. He got some lower level guys some experience and saw how they would represent. Some of these guys will learn the lessons and some will fade away. The ones that learn will be pointing to this game in future interviews when they are asked about their road to making it on the USMNT. Also, it would be nice to see the Davies, the Altidores, the Feilhabers etc., but they need to be with their clubs far more than they needed to be at the Gold Cup. That’s why they are not here and that’s a good thing. Finally, anyone who thinks we’re going to go to Mexico and drub them is just pissed off about yesterday and is not thinking clearly yet. I expect a better performance by the USMNT at Azteca, for sure, but even before yesterday, that was going to be a tough game.
David, you live 5 min from the stadium and you didn’t go? Shame on you!
EA, I agree with you. Most of the starters for the US yesterday are WAY down the depth chart. I don’t know the Mexican team as well, but my impression is that they were playing more regular starters — or at least guys closer to becoming regular starters.
The other thing to remember is that the USMNT as a whole is not as bad as the 5-0 scoreline. Similarly, the USMNT is not as good as the 2-0 game again Spain earlier this summer. The truth is somewhere in between, and we’ll get a better sense come Aug. 12.
Mighty, what’s really funny is many grandchildren of the Mexican fans you encountered will be part of that pro-US crowd you envision. I bet they will also exhibit a lot more class and respect for others than their immigrant generation ancestors.
This was an MLS team in this tourney, and not even the best MLS team we could have fielded.
Got our asses kicked – move on.
Bill Murray, I agree Vela and Dos Santos should be starting but it won’t happen unless Aguirre benches Castillo or Guardado which I don’t see happening.
Now I won’t pretend like I know everything about Mexico and their line ups and stuff becasue I don’t but I believe non of their usual back 5 were not starting. Add Guardado, another 3 mids, Gio, and Castillo and that is probably what you’ll see on the 12th with Vela coming off the bench. Maybe they will put Vela up front and bring Gio to right mid if they want to be super adventureous but I don’t see that happening.
@ Japan…..
Since when do you put 23 players on the field from one team? Pretty sure the starting 11 + maybe 1-2 subs are considered the “A” team. Then the rest of the subs are “B” team quality, hence they are not first choice. EA did a very good job showing how far down the list the players from the Gold Cup really are for the US.
Let Mexico and their fans think they are better than the US now after this result. I find it amusing. At the same time it enrages me how the team on the field just gave up. I saw the look on Chingy’s face after the game during his interview, he was super pist. I just hope that is the way the rest of the “A” team feels and it fuels them for the game on August 12th.
Well he wanted to blood the kids. They ended up soaked. The only player besides Ching that’s worth taking to Azteca is Holden. Adios! By the way thanks Bob..2 finals and only chatter to show for it!
meyers, a “team” consists of all the players in the squad. Not only the starting line up and the subs who come on.
I don’t think Bob Bradley could’ve done much to change the outcome of the game yesterday outside of calling in the big guns for the final. I very much respect him for playing the same team in the final. Like the saying goes, “You gotta dance with the one what brung you.”
Mexico wasn’t fielding their A team, but they have more depth than we do. I couldn’t bring myself to watch after the 3rd goal was scored. I watch a very interesting Monster Quest about giant bears. I figured if I was going to watch someone get mauled, better it was a Canadian hunter than my own soccer team.
I think this will give our A team even more motivation to go down to Azteca and $#*& them in their stupid !$$#$.
I witnessed some beer bottle throwing yesterday when one of our guys was about to take a corner.
I don’t hate the Mexican national team as a whole, I just hate their ignorant, crass, classless, violent fans. I also hate our guys having to play an away game in New York. That disgusts me.
I took my 6 year old daughter to the game and had a great time. No problems with the mexican supporters that surrounded us in the stadium or in the parking lot. There are always going to be drunks that get out of hand, but over all, it was a great atmosphere. I was prepared to see the US lose, but never imagined 5 zip.
Would have been nice if the stadium didn’t run out of drinks at half-time.
No more excuses about rosters, fatigue, bad penalty call, etc… The fact is we were annihilated by our biggest rival in a cup final. It was an embarrassment. Possibly the worst game I have watched by US Nats. I didn’t really expect this team to win, but to lose like that was unacceptable.
Some blame has to go to Bob Bradley as far as not making tactical adjustments once the Mexicans began blowing through our midfield and back line. Does he realize that a little emotion and sideline coaching are part of the job description? Light a fire under somebody’s ass (Beckerman, Pause, Heaps?) as far marking Dos Santos/Vela out of the game, or bring on someone specifically for that task (not Quaranta).
As we talk about B/C team, how much better is the A team? In my mind, not a whole lot more. Yes, with the advent of MLS we now have far more depth on each position than ever before but the gap between the first choice and #3 isn’t that great. Of course there are exceptions – Tim Howard, Donovan.
Agreed yesterday we fell apart. But during the course of the tournament our team fared just as well as the “A” team!
the complete destruction of our back line was something i haven’t seen in years. it was brutal and credit where due. But, I’m simply shocked that a US defense could lose its composure in such a complete fashion.
Justin G, where did I say that 23 players would be on the field. I am saying the 23 players the coach brings is the “team.”
First choice players are not the same thing as A team. I wouldn’t have a problem with people saying that was our 3rd choice players or 3rd string players.
While I was supremely disappointed, now, I day later i think it was VERY GOOD that we got trashed. It will remove complacency that began creeping in that even our “C” team can walk over any CONCACAF competition. It can’t, and our opponents deserve respect every time we play them IF we want to win.
I think Spain benefited mightily by timely lesson from Americans ahead of the the World Cup. Same applies to us.
Now, lets take a breath and relax. Yes, some players, that unless something changes, are clearly below international level. And there are players that are still young, or young enough, and displayed enough potential not to write them off just yet. With enough growing they can get to the first team level (hopefully). Its Holden, Rogers, Sacha, Quaranta, Cooper, Marshall, Adu, Goodson. Skies are not falling.
Meyers is right and Japan is an idiot!!
To EA | July 27, 2009 at 10:30 AM
Well said! Good analysis.
Johnny G,
To put things in perspective, you should try going to Fenway wearing a Yankees logo and you can apply your same adjectives to their fans. Or try to root for the Redskins at a Giants game.
It is not just the Mexicans, there are stupid people in every group.
Cheers
caca, so there’s only 14-15 players on a team?
In Argentina, Boca fans throw feathers and other crap on the River Plate fans and players….Can we throw beans in Azteca?? or is that insensitive Ives!?!?! Whatever happened to freedom of expression!
Agree with JustinG that this is our C team because none of these guys are going to be in South Africa in 2010. Might want to think of it as our “C lineup” Japan. For instance, Mexico had a LOT of guys who are probably going to be on the squad when they play us on August 12th, but everyone is still said this was a Mexican B team.
i disagree 100% that this is our B team. you are smoking crack if you think that. B team means that more than 1 or 2 players will be on the A team. this is a C+ team.
A Team:
Onyewu, Boca, Spector, Dolo, Dempsey, LD, Altidore, Davies, Bradley, Jones, Edu, etc.
B Team:
Szetela, Adu, Torres, Cooper, Feilhaber, Ching, Casey, Califf, Whitbread, White, Hill, Ferrari, Zimmerman, Hedjuk, Orozco, etc.
C Team:
Beckerman, Heaps, Marshall, Goodson, Holden, Rogers, Arnaud, Pearce, Pause, etc.
Obviously there is some overlap between the A and B teams. But aside from Holden and Ching, no one has a chance of being called in for the A team that was on this squad. I would dare say they hardly have a chance to make the B team.
wjmooner, “C line up” would be ok with me
I went to the Gold Cup final in ’07 in Chicago. I can say without a doubt, the Mexican fans are absolutely the most ignorant, drunken, disrespectful bunch of losers I have ever encountered. I will never attend a U.S./Mexico match on our soil again. It’s not even fun to watch anymore (even when we win, which is 90% of the time).
although yes this was our b or c team whatever you want to call it based on your opinion what makes up a team (11 players, 11 + subs, or 23 WC roster).
This tourney did show us that we do have weakness in depth at certain positions.
Specifically Wing mids, landy and dempsey have this locked but outside that we have very few to pick from. Sure we can put non-natural players out there (Benny, Holden, Torres) the only other natural wing players we have are rogers and beasley. I guess for sake of argument landy and dempsey are not really natural wing players.
Forwards. Ching just seems rusty, love the guy but just seemed out of synch during the torney maybe bc of surrounding players. Outside him all we have is Jozy and Davies (yes you can argue other players but on a high caliber internationall level I don’t see them succeeding)
The one benefit is that these 2 positions seem to work with each other Landy and Dempsey can push up to forward if needed.
Here is hopes to the developement of Adu, Rogers, Eddie Johnson, and Charles Renken
Please, any poster who claims Ching is better than Altidore and Davies should be ignored immediately. Too bad he keeps posting drivel over and over again.
The Gold Cup is meaningless. We played a bunch of kids for Bradley to evaluate and found out most of them are pretty poor. It sucks to lose, particularly to Mexico, so badly, but it doesn’t matter.
Can’t wait for August 12.
Wow Ives, a 5.0 for both Goodson and Marshall is just comical. They were the central defenders on a team that allowed five goals. Look, we all know Heaps and Pearce were brutal, but Goodson and Marshall let the Mexican counter-attack get by them all second half. Just a brutal performance by both, with or without help from the center or the side.
@ Japan……Ok, that was not our 1st or 2nd choice team. I personally think it was a mixture of 3rd and 4th choice, depending on the position. But no biggie, like I said, let Mexico enjoy winning the meaningless tourney.
@ Min, Princeton, NJ …..duing the course of the tourney our team fared just as well as the “A” team??!! Dude, after US-Mexico-and Costa Rica (which we didn’t play) the talent drop off of the other teams in the region is huge. We did so well because the caliber of our 3rd choice team is much higher than that of the 1st choice teams we played. You can’t compare how we did to how the 1st choice team would have fared. If we had the team that played against Spain/Brazil for the entire tourney we would have won the first 3-4 games 5-0 or 6-0.
I only got to watch the 2nd half of yesterday’s game. I swear it looked like we were playing a man down. Numerous times it appeared as though there were only 3 defenders.
Oh well, I was not expecting this group to get as far as they did. Still, doesn’t excuse the lack of character shown in the last 30+ minutes.
Man up boys, or you’ll never see the pitch once BB is gone as coach/manager/Gulati’s whipping boy.
Kinda sums up the lack of experience
Four players have appeared in a CONCACAF final round qualifying match.
Eight of 23 players have appeared in a qualifying match for the 2010 FIFA World Cup.
Eight players have made at least one appearance in 2009.
Seven players are seeking their first appearance for the U.S.
16 players have five or fewer caps.
15 of the 23 players ply their trade in Major League Soccer.
The roster averages eight caps per player. By contrast, in the other two Gold Cups with 23-man rosters, the U.S. team averaged 26 caps/player (2007) and 28 caps/player (2005).
Ching leads the roster with nine goals. All other players on the roster have scored a combined nine goals.
Two players, Cherundolo and Conrad, have appeared in a FIFA World Cup match.
Two players, Parkhurst and Ching, were on the 2007 Gold Cup champion team.
Three players, Cherundolo, Conrad and Quaranta, were on the 2005 Gold Cup champion team.
Five players were on the 2008 U.S. Olympic Team for the Beijing Games.
The average age on the roster is 26, 1.2 years older than the U.S. squad at the FIFA Confederations Cup.
Go to your favorite club team’s homepage and click on first team. Players like Diaby and Ramsey from Arsenal are listed on the first team and they surely are not in the starting line up nor regular subs that come on. According to many of your logic, they should be listed under reserves. Please tell me why they are not.
I have yet to hear a proper reason why I am wrong so please keep them coming.
Japan..you’re a tool bro loll
The real losers are the so-called USMNT supporters who live within a four-hour drive of Giants Stadium and didn’t bother to show up to support their team in a cup final, regardless of whether it was B, C, D, F or Z team. The only letters that matter are U, S and A.
Ives has a good point about how the Mexican players reacted when they the final whistle had blown, they were shocked that they had beaten us. There was one goal the Mexican federation had at the beginning of the tournament, that was to send a team to win the Gold Cup.
IMO, Mexico acted as though they upset us on our home field. Just a couple of problems with that, “home” field relatively speaking wasn’t true with a majority of the fans being Mexico supporters. For the casual fan not knowing the game was played in Giants Stadium, they would have said the game was in Mexico.
Anytime there are more opposing team fans than home fans, should it really be called a home game? Was this really an upset? Not for me. Mexico knew what they wanted when they sent this list of players to the Gold Cup.
Disappointing on many levels on my end, I hope that we do the same to them on August 12 (end their winning streak on Mexican soil).
I still think this was a great tournament for our guys. Let’s be honest, none of these guys are gonna make it to the WC (except possibly Ching and Holden). So to make it this far for a bunch of MLS guys is pretty cool, and is something that probably couldn’t have been acheived 2 or 4 years ago.
I’m disappointed w/ how it ended, but what we saw was a bunch of MLS players playing MLS style, 110 MPH at all times, and they eventually got tired. They learned a huge lesson of how international soccer is played by a good Mexican team w/ a bunch of guys that will be at the WC, assuming they qualify.
Lesson learned, and they all will be better players going forward
Never seen so much made over a more meaningless result.
Yesterday was meaningless.
Breaking news… Mexico’s B team is 5 goals better than our C/D team. Big whoop.
People need to quit calling this our B team, though. Our B team is listed below. How many of these guys were out there yesterday?
———–Guzan————–
Cherundolo—Demerit—Califf—-Bornstein
Torres——Edu——Feilhaber—-Beasley
——Ching/Davies——-Casey/Johnson—–
Sour grapes my ass. Facts are facts.
By my count, we had no fewer than 9 players in our starting XI who are no better than 4th in their individual positional depth chart.
We were without 23 of our 25 best players. This cannot be overstated.
Here is a list of names of guys who weren’t out there yesterday: Tim Howard, Brad Guzan, Marcus Hahnemann, Jonathan Spector, Steve Cherundolo, Frankie Hejduk, Marvell Wynne, Oguchi Onyewu, Carlos Bocanegra, Jay Demerit, Dan Califf, Jimmy Conrad, Jonathan Bornstein, Clint Dempsey, Jose Francisco Torres, Sacha Kljestan, Michael Bradley, Jermaine Jones, Maurice Edu, Ricardo Clark, Benny Feilhaber, Freddy Adu, Landon Donovan, Damarcus Beasley, Jozy Altidore, Charlie Davies, Conor Casey, Eddie Johnson.
I actually felt sorry for Mexico watching them celebrate yesterday. I think they are delusional.
Thank Jesus…. that Beer ran out at half time…. or else…. i would of end up drunk from all the beer those drunk Mexicans threw at me….
Aug 12….!!! Cant wait…
Sams Army still have to learn how to support our team better….. there where people that want to sit down… asking others to sit… we had people not chanting…. we had people leaving early…. fans stick with their team till the end….
and enough having this dudes that don’t care sit with us… lol
I slept on it, and I’m still pissed. and this morning I’m a little more pissed at Bradley than I was last night. Not for the tactics and late subs in this game, but for the team selection.
Why would you ever select Beckerman (27), Pause (28), Arnaud (29), Heaps(32), and most of the other players who are NOT young and have ZERO chance of ever being effective international players? If you want to stretch you can call a 24 year old Holden and a 22 year old Cronin “young,” fine, but most of these players are in or past their primes and just not any good. So how does it possibly help the national team pool by calling up a bunch of old and untalented players? Aren’t we better off fielding a 24 and under squad, where we have at least the possibility of finding some talent? Why burn a tournament on a bunch of never-weres, never-will-bes?
As for the loss, we were out-played by a team with much better talent. It is that simple.
I am not BB’s fan. I think he did a fairly good job managing this tournament. But some problems remain and they grow into a pattern.
1. Late with substitutions. Sometimes it’s OK, like with the second game with Honduras. Sometimes it’s crucial, like the last game with Mexico.
He already had Quaranta and Cooper up. One of them should have been in at a first opportunity after the penalty. We felt that momentum was changing. A slow-mo substitution is a standard ploy to cool off the opponent. Than a minute later bring in the second one.
Guys, its not my invention. You can see it time after time everywhere. If it’s not coaching 101, than it’s 102 the most.
You can understand a hesitation of bringing in an inferior sub for even a tired star, but in this case subs were on the same level. Fresh legs are good. Coaching 101 again.
Its strange that a solid coach like BB (not brilliant, but quite solid) repeats the same mistake consistently.
2. Teacher’s pets
For unknown from outside reason, BB trusts some under-performing guys more than other under-performing guys.
How come Heaps is preferred over Evans, or Pause is preferred over Quaranta? Or Sacha over Torres, or [this year] Beasley over anybody?
If anybody has ideas, I’ll listen
i don’t want to look back
Its NJ, not NY
Also, I disagree with folks assessment of Perkins.
I should temper that, a bit, in that I’ve never been that impressed with him.
Our goalkeeper depth, to me, is:
Howard-(Friedel)-(Keller)-Hahnemann-Guzan
After that, you can add Perkins to the mix… but if I have a qualifier to play in two weeks and those five aren’t available, give me Matt Reis, or Joe Cannon, or Jon Busch. I think all three are as good or better than Perkins, whether they are part of the NT picture or not.
And yes, I realize that Friedel and Keller are retired from international play, but let Tim Howard get hurt in May of next year, and see if the phone won’t ring.
I think it was a tough loss, but not a calamitous one. I like and respect Bradley’s faith in the kids’ table that got to the final, but they clearly weren’t ready for a hungrier, more experienced Mexico. I’m more disappointed in the players than the coach– Pearce and Rogers almost completely stopped tracking back after the PK, which gave Gio the space to set up goals #2 and #3.
So I can definitely put this in perspective, but the fact is, it’s still the toughest loss we’ve ever suffered on US soil. It’s the end of our decade-long unbeaten streak against Mexico at home. There isn’t going to be a little asterisk next to this game in the stat book to indicate that we had a bunch of kids and old farts out there, Mexico beat the US, straight up.
So… like I said, perspective. At the same time, I’m pretty mad and ready to see the US win at Azteca. To quote the great Ted Leo: “I’m not angry… I will be forever angry.”
I was at the game with my young kids – no problem. A little beer sprayed in celebration. A very few rthings being thrown – but moslt paper airplanes and such. nothing dangerous. No big deal. Some mexicans screaming in my face as we left, but they were smiling.
They earned it I’d say. I think you guys complaining about behaviour need to lightne up – looking for a reason to complain about the Mexican fans I’d say.
We never felt threatened at all.
Disappointing result but i have never been to a soccer game with that kind of environment before. Really something to see.
To the person who noted that the grankids of the mexican fans will be the ones chearing on the US team in the future – I did see several cars driving up with both US and mexican flags waving. And lots of US supporters were latino – so i could see that day coming sooner than you think.
Seriously — STOP CALLING IT A KIDS’ TEAM! The average age of this squad was over 1.5 years more than the squad at Confed Cup. This was a bizarre team, selected for strange reasons.
It hurst to lose that bad. But I am confident we have a good, potent team to beat them at Azteca. If we would have had, Adu, Benny, Davies, Cherundolo in the game and lost like this, them i would be worried. but since they have a lot of players that have started in their A team, we had enough to compete but did not have the depth, to make changes. The difference is that they had more talent in their bench, to make an impact.
On television, I saw a fan with an American jersey jump onto the field towards the Mex team…anyone else see that.
whats worse: entering the pitch or throwing beer
Here is my perspective on it:
1st choice “A” Team:
GK: Howard
DF: Boca, Demerit, Onyewu, Spector, Cherundolo
MF: Donovan, Dempsey, Bradley, Jones, Feilhaber
FW: Altidore, Davies, Ching
2nd choice “B” Team:
GK: Guzan
DF: Pearce, Califf, Simek, Hejduk, Marshall
MF: Edu, Torres, Clark, Beasley, Adu, Kljestan
FW: Cooper, Johnson
3rd choice “C” team:
GK: Perkins
DF: Wynne, Moor, Parkhurst, Bornstein, Conrad, Goodson
MF: Szetela, Mastroeni, Holden, Clark, Rogers
FW: Casey, Rolfe
The rest…..
Heaps, Pause, Quananta, Beckerman, Cronin, Evans, Arnaud, Busch, Robles
9 of the players named to the tournament would be on my 4th choice “D” team. Almost enough for an entire team.
Got to love Ching – my sentiments exactly. Mexico definitely fielded a better team. If Vela and Dos Santos aren’t starting for Mexico, they should be. I hope they don’t start on Aug. 12.
But I think our lack of experience at this level showed. We lost our composure in the end, but the majority of our guys are on their first few caps. Even if you don’t think this was Mexico’s best team, it was certainly much more experienced than ours.
I think it speaks to our tactics as well. When you always play such a defensive lineup, you don’t have the quality attacking players on the field to come back against a good team. The Brazil final was the same way. You can’t just throw Cooper and Quaranta on with 30 minutes left and expect them to dominate Mexico. It wasn’t that the subs were too late, it’s that you need to start a more aggressive team….
The A, B, C team argument is getting pretty old. It’s all up for individual interpretation.
you could say the first 11 are the A team, you could say the first 11 and subs are the A team, you could say the 23 are the A team, ect.
Doesn’t really matter the “level” team we were, those boys get experence. Many of them that might be there only call ups for the USMNT besides maybe a friendly or meaningless WC qualifier.
I could not understand how we stopped playing D after that first goal. On the 2nd and third goals i actually thought there must be on offsides flag up or something, because al least 3 US players just stood dead still after the turnover while the mexican team raced down the field. I dont know if Goodson was affected by that injury or if his legs were just dead after all the minutes in this tournament, or if he was just overwhelmed by the speed and intensity of the situation, but he went from being rock steady to useless right after that first goal.
Relax, it was just a game where Mexico had more urge and a deeper bench to get the result. Mexicans like DRAMA QUEENS will blow everything out of proportion and celebrate like they won the world cup by beating a bunch of MLeSers (Hence why they all hit the streets in Mexico to celebrate) they’re only obsession is beating the USA..If we played Mexico in Mexico as much as we play here in Home soil, I’m sure we’d beat Mexico by now overthere also.
I have total confidence in our starters to beat Mexico any time, what i dont have confidence is in BB’s game management.
Cenote: I refer to the team as a kids’ table not because of their average age, but because of their average experience on the national team. Only 3 players in the squad at Giants Stadium had callups in the double digits, and several players had fewer than five. By contrast, only one or two Mexicans on the pitch yesterday had fewer than ten caps.
VINDICATION. SATISFACTION. DOMINIATION.
VIVA MEXICO!!!!
Cenote: I refer to the team as a kids’ table not because of their average age, but because of their average experience on the national team. Only 3 players in the squad at Giants Stadium had callups in the double digits, and several players had fewer than five. By contrast, only one or two Mexicans on the pitch yesterday had fewer than ten caps.
Posted by: Mike Toole | July 27, 2009 at 11:37 AM
Average age was actually almost 2 years greater than the confed cup team, it’d be more or less the caps.
Also do I need to remind everyone that we kicked out of the WORLD CUP…think about which is more painful? put everything into perspective…we’ve ruled them for 10 years on Aug 12 we can start another 10year trend..and then when they finally beat us, they will go and celebrate in “el Angel” again….what a bunch of morons they are…let’s beat them at the Ass-teca..
I’m with Paul.
Do we really need to look back at this?
It perplexes me on many levels why anyone would want Ching on our A-team,much less even being the waterboy… he is awful, time to face the facts fanboys.
I just want to point out how pathetic the lot of you sound making excuses like little girls.
The fact of the matter is that Mexico’s best players during the tournament were the young ones.
All of them under 21 years old.
Chew on that US fans.
The real losers are the so-called USMNT supporters who live within a four-hour drive of Giants Stadium and didn’t bother to show up to support their team in a cup final
Posted by: chupacabra
——————————————–
Then I’ll step up and proudly claim the #1 loser spot. I pronounce myself, “King of the Losers”. Some of us have other obligations (like kids, putting food on the table, keeping a roof over our heads, etc.) so getting to the tv was the best that we could do. The additional 7 hours (up there and back with good traffic)?!?! Those were penciled in already.
I always find it a bit comical how some people want to pull other people’s fan membership card or set a litmus test.
Let me know where to return my Sam’s Army card. Maybe they can strip me of all of my pre-fatherhood “caps” from supporting the Nats (male/female/youth) over the years.
Seriously, Bro. It isn’t always as simple as you are making it out to be…
Mad props to all of the (“real”) US supporters who made it! Much respect for reprezenting! Whether we win or lose, I always get a bit choked up seeing you guys on tv and fondly remember those of you that I have met in person from different parts of our wonderful country.
Peace!
@Christian-Where the heck is my Costco size box of kleenex with the lotion? That was your job.
You got your props already (comment 7 or something).
Now where’s my box? I’m still not all cried out after yesterday’s smackdown.
Felicidades!
Christian,
I hate to agree with you, but have to. We SHOULD have brought young players — because we have more than enough to equal those of Mexico. For some reason we chose to roll out a bunch of old, mid-tier MLSers. And we got trounced, fari and square.
Well we can all argue how this game means nothing to the US because they fielded a B-team, blah blah blah.
The red flag to me if that clearly Aguirre will be a force to be reckon it. I think he is showing to be the coach who can bring all this talent together and keep it organized and disciplined and of course confident to start being competitive again vs the US.
I think his move at the half may prove that come August 12th, it does not matter if the Mexico A or B team, he is a coach who clearly understands the game and may have the formula to breaking down the American’s game.
So word to the wise, be cautious. be very cautions on August 12th. This is not the same Mexican team. and right now they are beaming with confidence.
This will make Aug 12 that much more fun to watch
This game sucked! I never want to lose but 5-0 just really sucks.
Here are something to think about.
- Who needed this more? Mexico
- Who had more 1st team players play the entire tournament? Mexico
- Who always thinks that they should win this game? Mexico
- Who has a manager that took his team to deep runs or maybe won a UEFA cup? Mexico
- Who had players from Arsenal, Viallreal, Spurs, Pachuca, Club America on the field? Mexico
- Who has a soccer program going to the WC and playing well for over 50 years? Mexico
So with all that said it would seem logical that they win when playing the soccer backwater USMNT. We don’t even call the sport the right name. But they don’t and that EATS THEM UP.
So we might lose at Azteca or not but what does that really mean? Bottomline is the US is getting better and better all the time and with our resources and population make up we will have more and more players of world class potential coming up. This result means nothing in the larger picture. And that also EATS THEM UP.
Yesterday I was just stunned. Today I’m angry. Already tired of hearing about the game from my Mexican co-workers.
I honestly feel like Bob Bradley and/or US Soccer owe fans an apology for that debacle. I can understand losing 2-0, 3-0, or even 4-0. But to stand there on the sidelines and watch our defense get shredded time and again??!? It’s almost beyond comprehension.
The point has already been made but bears repeating: If you’re trying to build MNT depth, why do you bring a bunch of late-20s/early-30s MLS journeymen to a tournament when they are never going to be a factor on any World Cup roster??!? Wouldn’t it be better to bring younger guys to get experience that could actually help the MNT down the road?
@Cenote & JRhode: YES, EXACTLY RIGHT. Thank you
@David: if you live 5 minutes from the stadium, you should have been there. Weak
Second the comments about BB not making changes. Would further it by saying he tends to lock in too early with a “My Guys” approach. We’d do better to rotate players, look what that approach did for Aguirre yesterday under similar circumstances. These two Cup finals are testament to needing a more open mind towards who is on the bench.
I am first going to say that Perkins can not be blamed at all for that thrashing. How can you expect him to keep every shot out when you have no deffence to stop the attack. It just goes to show that Bradley should have had Jozy, Davies, and Feilhaber on the team. You add those three guys and there is no way Mexico would have beat us like that and I realy thing that we would have been up 2-0 at the half.
I was at the game, and I noticed that after the 2nd goal, the team just stopped playing. I was disapointed in the team to play like that in the final, and just plain imbarassed by their performance. I just hope that our A (and not our B) team will get some revenge on Mexico next month, and help us get closer to qualifying, and make there chance farther away.
I will admit Mexico completly out played us, and this group of players need to do something to improve if they want to play the the US team again.
“The red flag to me if that clearly Aguirre will be a force to be reckon it. I think he is showing to be the coach who can bring all this talent together and keep it organized and disciplined and of course confident to start being competitive again vs the US.”
I agree. His presence this cup was astounding. His discipline was superb. He represented Mexico in all it’s glory. Thanks for sharing.
This loss will have no negative affect on the US program. It will light a fire in the training staff and front office that was humiliated yesterday in front of the world.
Mexico will have their head in the clouds, and be extremely over-confident at La Azteca. This game doesn’t change my outlook of that game one bit.
USA beats Mexico convincingly at La Azteca.
Two more comments and I’m done.
It was a freaking CUP FINAL. There was a TROPHY at stake. Screw dancing with who brung you. This team was a joke. Bradley should have called in some reinforcements. Have some respect for the game. An embarassment.
Re: Mexican-American fans supporting the USMNT. Yes, we were starting to see more support from that demographic. Everyone loves a winner, and there were more and more US fans from the Latino community, when we were beating them consistently. Unfortunately, a decade of progress in winning new fans was basically wiped out yesterday.
I cannot look. Let the Mexicans have their day.. BB needs a better Azteca strategy.
Pull one out Bob
oh mexicans… you silly midgets… cheer for now.
The results sucks.. sure… but i got over it pretty quick.. we all know that this might help the teams motiviation down in th Azteca… but what hurts the most is was being in my seats and not seeing another US supporter. there needs to be an improvement on the seperation of fans. i am embarrased of the numbers in the stadium seats
Ives, what if putting the match into perspective *means* being angry and irate?
Bradley couldn’t coach more talent into Jay Heaps, but he sure could have coached organization and maybe just little heart.
Ives:
You have never been more spot on in your analysis. I’ll be down there at the Azteca and I was there yesterday. Can’t wait till we exact our revenge down there with our real team.
Kind of reminds me in Revenge of the Nerds when they brought their TriLambda brothers in to restore order — hoping we can have that kind of effect.
Since I live in San Diego, I can pick up the Mexican channels (Azteca/Televisa). Early in the first half, on the set piece their commentators pointed out a clear penalty in the box against the Americans. Maybe, that would have made a difference…
The reason we lost and will continue to struggle against quality teams is because BB’s game plan is always the same. He has no creativity at all.
I don’t buy this understrength and inexperienced none sense spin. We got beat. That’s all.
Excuses, excuses.
You guys sound like a bunch of Mexican fans after a big loss.
The US got destroyed, it happens. Now suck it up and move on.
Well, it could have been 6-0 or 7-0 if Sacha Kjelstan was playing.
Seeing the Mexican media, there is little mention that this was not the USA’s A team. I think this is good for the USA, that Mexico is overconfident again. Once again, in victory as in defeat, the Mexican show their ignorance of the foe. They will lose in Azteca and return to their regularly scheduled whining and eating huevos a la excuses.
FredMac, I’m glad you felt safe, but my son and I in the lower level did not. The US fan just next to me was beaned by a beer bottle after the second goal (it came from the upper level), and the Mex fan on the other side had beer spray in his eyes. A pre-teen girl behind us was soaked with beer as well. This is why I waited to buy tickets to the 05 Gold Cup final until I knew that Mex lost to Panama; to avoid this.
Anybody who says this wasn’t our “C” team is crazy. The “B” team would be anyone who sits on the bench while the starters play. We had some of those guys here at the beginning of the tournament, and they played well. This was more like the MLS all stars.
Anyway, August 12 in Azteca is what matters. If the Mexicans are taking this game seriously, then their arrogance will only work against them when it counts.
I assume people trashing Perkin’s positioning and general acumen have never been ‘keepers. He made some great saves in that game and his positioning, especially on the 1v1s, was right on. Crappy defending lead to those goals, not crappy goal keeping.
The USMNT had a great opportunmity to win over some sportsfans. In the wake of the ConFed, non-soccer types were actually talking about the sport/team. Instead of putting on a good display of talent and turning those people into fans, we got humiliated by our main rival on our home turf. Big opportunity missed. Until the USSF learns to Market the sport, we will always be outnumbered in the stands.
“I’m not in that locker room and I don’t know what they’re thinking, but if they think the next game’s going to be anything like this they’ve got another thing coming,” Ching
Yeah and hopefully he won’t be coming to Azteca in August. NO player from that game day roster should make the trip south of the border, not one. They can try to work their way back in for later games, but the horrid play that took place needs to be expunged. The midfield and back line guys shouldn’t see a call up until next year at the earliest.
@sandog..U going to Azteca? we are leaving from tijuana on the 11th.
enough with the “insert letter here” team argument. Gettting sooooo old. We lost with the team that had the US jersey on. Regardless, players we don’t usually see but our National team none-the-less. We move on to Aug 12 with different players wearing that jersey.
IMO football uses the designation “First choice Team”, “Second Choice Team” etc. That means the starting eleven who will take the field, next eleven and so forth. This was clearly our Third Choice starting lineup. Please dont confuse a total player pool with starting line ups.
I’m about ready to stop reading posts on this game. Too many wanting to blame Heaps and Pause for everything while giving a pass to their favorites that did no better.
If you want to name “overmatched” people, be sure to include (front to back) Arnaud, Cooper, Holden, Rodgers, Pause Beckerman, Pearce, Heaps and the two central defenders. The only ones that weren’t overmatched were Ching (he is what he is) and the goalie. Oh yeah, one more – Bradley. Once again he was out coached
The red flag to me if that clearly Aguirre will be a force to be reckon it. I think he is showing to be the coach who can bring all this talent together and keep it organized and disciplined and of course confident to start being competitive again vs the US.”
I agree. His presence this cup was astounding. His discipline was superb. He represented Mexico in all it’s glory. Thanks for sharing.
“represented Mexico in all it’s glory” and “disciplined” by trying to kick an oppent in the nuts…sounds about right for Mexico.
When Brazil fields their “B” teams, Olympic team, or their U23 team for the tourneys, they still take pride in winning and graceful when they lose. Whoever was playing for the USMNT should take pride in wearing the jersey, the colors, but to lose 5 goals to nil is downright embarrassing for the US program. I understand three goals to nil, but five, that just a shame.
If Ching wouldn’t have been in the team, some would have declared this a “G” team. Let’s not make excuses this team is not the best US side, but still a good one. Not too mentioned they played together long enough to be able to develop some good chemistry. It was a very poor showing, move on…just don’t make excuses.
Great points joew. Bradley looks like a fool calling in and playing heaps. He brought no leadership and cost us multiple goals. It seems like it would have made more sense to bring in Moor, someone with potential for the nats but this is Bradley were talking about.
“The red flag to me if that clearly Aguirre will be a force to be reckon it. I think he is showing to be the coach who can bring all this talent together and keep it organized and disciplined and of course confident to start being competitive again vs the US.”
DCU,…couldn’t agree more.
Three comments:
1. I believe we would have been better off starting with Quaranta on the right and Holden in the middle with Logan Pause taking a seat on the bench. The midfield was too workmanlike for such an opponent. I think Holden in the middle would have been a better use of his skills and Quaranta might have given us a little more on the right. BB could still have brought Pause on if things started to unravel in the second half.
2. Throughout the Gold Cup I was somewhat encouraged by what I thought was improved and confident shooting by the USA. Quaranta’s goal against Honduras, Holden’s goal against Haiti, Beckerman’s goal against Panama,….we needed Rogers to bury that chance he had in the second half. If he puts that in,…the game is over,….Mexico’s phyche would have been shattered.
3. Brian Ching is a hard worker and a decent guy,…but we have to move on.
Listen, can Mexican soccer fans have your permission to be happy? Pleeeeease?
Mexico wasn’t only taking MAJOR crap from you guys, but also from every Central American fan in this tourney, and through the qualifiers. Something you don’t know because you’re not Mexican.
If you had read what the Costa Rican newspapers where printing on their FRONT PAGE prior to the game vs. Mexico, you would probably understand why it was so sweet to beat them!
Mexico had not beaten the USMT in more than ten years on US soil. NO ONE believed it could be done, ever again!…Except for the eleven players that where on the field yesterday, a handful of supporters and especially THE COACH!
There was not A SINGLE US fan who thought Mexico would win!!!
If you have doubts, go check back on the old Ives pages and you will see! NO ONE mentioning how this was a C squad or whatever!
So IT WAS shocking to win 5-0! One thing that no one mentions, is how it could have been 8 or 9-0, if only both Sabah and Medina would have finished their chances! Also for the last ten minutes of the game Mexico clearly STOPPED attacking the US, and spent their time touching the ball around midfield!
It was also Mexico (NOT COSTA RICA, HONDURAS etc.) who took away the US fifty-eight game consecutive winning streak in CONCACAF tournaments!
And it broke the tie in Gold Cups won, now Mexico has one more!
So water it down all you want, make it seem like it doesn’t matter, etc. IT DOES MATTER! Just read every single Newspaper in the world today, from Argentina to Spain!
About the Mexican team, listen, I will be very surprised if Mexico even starts four of the players from this group on Aug. 12! Maybe Ochoa, Torrado, Gio and Vela and/or Israel Castro, Franco, or Sabah! MAYBE! (Aguirre’s giving out the list ON WEDNESDAY!!!)
And no on will hate you for celebrating a win at Azteca in August. Which you know you will like it was 1999 or 2002 I mean!…If it happens!
And I happen to think it probably will!
And for the whiners about the beer in the stands, it could have been worse! Could have been English, German, Irish Italian, or the Boca Juniors “porra”!
DCUfanTX-You my friend hit it right in the head!… Weather they like it or not!!!
AS much as we loved this team, we couldn’t expect much from them. BB should had called in a few others.
bunch of losers fans !!! , you dont know how to be a gentleman when you lose … what a shame ….
please learn to Aug 12th hahahaha
goodson’s failure to defend on the second goal was unbelievable. that was the worst play i’ve seen in an american uniform in a very long time. unbelievable.
To those posters, like japan, who argue that this was not, in fact, a “C” team, and that the Mexicans didn’t field an “A-” or “B+” team, I disagree. If you make a reasonable US depth chart at every position, no where on the field did we field a player in the top 3 at their position, with the exception of Ching, who in all likelihood has slipped to #2 at his postion (target forward).
Perkins? at best #3, possibly #4. And if Friedel and Keller came of retirement, Perkins would slip to #5 or #6.
Heaps? He’s a mediocre MLSer with no business being on the nats. I can think of about ten guys who should be ahead of him in the US pool depth chart at right back.
Marshall? Probably #3 with potential to move to #2 (behind Gooch, Bocanegra, DeMerit, probably Conrad, maybe Simek).
Goodson? Four or five deep on the depth chart.
Pearce? #3 and falling fast. Bornstein has clearly passed him, Castillo will soon be ahead of him, BB would use Beasley or Hejduk ahead of him. Orozco is probably also ahead of him. And of course Bocanegra may end up moving over to left back. I’d say Pearce now has a less than 10% chance of making the WC squad. He’s gotten his chance and pretty much blown it.
Rogers? Realistically no better than #3, behind Donovan, Torres, possibly Jones, Beasley. Frankly, Holden is more likely to lineup in this spot.
Beckerman and Pause? Pause probably has about ten guys ahead of him, and Beckerman has at least three, probably more. Edu, Clark, Bradley, Feilhaber, Kljestan, Holden, Jones, Szetela. Those guys all can play central mid and are ahead of Beckerman, with the possible exception of Szetela.
Holden? Probably rising, but still clearly behind Dempsey/Donovan, and guys like Jones, Feilhaber, Adu and others who can play on the right. Arguably Holden could rise up to #2 in the depth charts, but going into this tourney no one would have rated him higer than #3 or #4.
Ching? Theoretically a starter before his injury, I think it is clear that while he has certain international qualities, he has lost a step and is showing a bit of age, and has probably been passed by Altidore and Davies, and will have his #2 target forward role threatened by Casey, Cooper, or even a return by McBride after he recovers from injury. So he’s at best #2, and possibly #3 or #4.
Arnaud? Decent MLSer, but not an international, and is WAY down the withdrawn forward depth chart, behind Davies, Altidore, Adu, Eddie Johnson, Donovan and others.
So basically the entire US squad was third or fourth teamers, or in the case of Heaps, Arnaud, Pause, Goodson and Beckerman, even lower. Calling this a C team is almost a compliment.
As to the Mexican squad, maybe they were more B+ team than A- team, but they had at least six guys who are in the top 18 guys for the full national team (inclusing 3-4 guys who are starting quality): Dos Santos, Vela, Ochoa, Torrado, Magallon, Castro, as well as a handful of guys with a legit shot at making the World Cup roster: Franco, Medina, Pinto, Sabah.
So I think we need to have some perspective. The loss hurts, and 5-0 is embarrassing, but these teams were not equivalent levels of the country’s player pools. There is little doubt that the Mexican player pool is deeper. If they had fielded a true C level team, I would still expect them to beat the US team at that level. One thing we learned, I believe, is that though the US pool has gotten deeper over the last eight years, it hasn’t approached the depth of the Mexican pool yet. But I don’t think this game told us much else. We learned a bit about some specific players, but the loss doesn’t tell us anything about the level of the USMNT or about our qualifying prospects.
Personally, I think the “psychological” aspect of the US-Mexico rivalry is an overblown cliche. The US has won in the US because we’re more tactically sound at the international level and our talent level has risen to nearly the level of the Mexicans.
yankiboy, I am surprised you remember all the $ I bet on this game. To be honest I was very nervous in the first half and very frustrated at Medina, the guy sucks. I knew that both Vela and Franco were a step up over Medina and Sabah but I was nervous that the US would score first before they came in. However once Vela came in I knew I was going to collect $500 this week (I already have $200).
The thing is that everyone here was too high on this group of players. They did not matchup on paper with this Mexican team. They had faced subpar competition. Also I do not think that Adu or Feilhaber would have helped, although Davies or Altidore definitely would have.
Another thing is that Gooch, Spector, Bocanegra, Cherundolo would have had problems with both Vela and Dos Santos yesterday. Did you guys notice how Mexico did not cross the ball for headers at all? Aguirre finally figure out that the US defense excels at defending in the air but are very vulnerable on the ground against speedy wingers and it is the same with the US A team defenders. Now throw in Guardado, Castillo, and Blanco with his deliveries and Azteca will be hard for the US. The only reason it will be a tight game is because Mexico’s central defense is decimated by injuries to Marquez, Leo Lopez, and Maza Rodriguez.
I am 100% Mexican and I think that what we saw yesterday was soemthing that we wont see again in a few years. I watch the game in a Mexican channel and something I hate from televisa and TV Azteca is that they think that we are far superiors than US Soccer team. I love my team, El Tri, but i also know that the soccer in the US is better because have invested more time and money. I dont know what is going to happen next month and Ihope we can beat you guys, but, i would not be surprised that we loose due to the great mentality the american teams and palyers have. Go Mexico. P.S. yes some Mexicans are dirty and sometimes i feel ashame of that, but not all of us have lack of education. Viva Mexico and good luck USA.
dejense venir perros !!!!
A loss is a loss. Whether it is 6-1, 5-0, or 1-0. The loss still counts.
There is no need to talk about the ABC teams. The squad for this tourney was compiled of young, inexperienced players. I really think this is going to benefit the US more than Mexico in the long run. Remember 2007 Copa America? How everyone wanted to fire Bradley? Fast forward to 2009 Confederations cup.
Bob Bradley is building the team the way a coach really needs to. Not just for the next match, but for matches in the upcoming years. I know it hurts because the team loss to Mexico. Besides that, the team learned a valuable lesson.
Let Mexico celebrate like they won something big. In reality, they haven’t. I rather have this loss and beat Mexico Aug. 12. That would bring the sad Rancheras to the Mexican team and its fans.
Another thing is that Gooch, Spector, Bocanegra, Cherundolo would have had problems with both Vela and Dos Santos yesterday. Did you guys notice how Mexico did not cross the ball for headers at all? Aguirre finally figure out that the US defense excels at defending in the air but are very vulnerable on the ground against speedy wingers and it is the same with the US A team defenders. Now throw in Guardado, Castillo, and Blanco with his deliveries and Azteca will be hard for the US. The only reason it will be a tight game is because Mexico’s central defense is decimated by injuries to Marquez, Leo Lopez, and Maza Rodriguez.
Wha? You really think that because Jay Heaps and Heath Pearce got burned by Gio and Vela that the same would happen to Spector and Bocanegra? The same two who helped blank Spain as a fullback pair?
To put Mexico’s “B” team on the same level as our “B” team is really doing a disservice to the letter B. seriously, Mexico has far more depth than the U.S., at this point in history and for the forseeable future, so anything past the Best XI plays to Mexico’s favor.
I also think that U.S. players have gotten to the point where beating Mexico is almost a given (outside of Mexico, that is), and that a sort of complacency has filtered down from the national team regulars to the scrubs. Hopefully, yesterday will serve as a wakeup call.
Much as I truly love Stuart Holden, for example, I don’t think Deuce would have rolled over in quite the same manner yesterday afternoon. That’s what separates our “men” from our “boys,” and I think Mexico will be well advised not to expect the same posse of gringos to show up at Azteca next month. It’ll be a completely different game.
All for journalistic integrity and scholastic indifference, Ives. But seriously, did you have to post the video?
I’m not at all worried abotu the result of this game. I’m trying to fugure out how some people can say that team on the field yesterday was our B team. The way I’m looking at it is, “how many of theplayers on the that team would actually make the world cup roster”
The truth is that maybe 1 or 2 people playing for the US would make the world cup roster. Mexico won handly yesterday but let’s be honest for a second, they put out a much better squad than what we did and were expected to win. Of course the shocking part of it is 5 nil. I say let the Mexicans celebrate a victory that in the grand sceme of things is really worthless.
When we beat them in Azteca in August then this Gold Cup victory is all that Mexico will have to our C team and they will watch the world cup at home
Let’s quantify all this A/B/C team stuff. Consider the players that saw time yesterday. Or to make it easier, consider the starters for both teams. How many caps did each of those players have going into this tournament? According to the U.S. Soccer website, three of yesterday’s U.S. starters had no caps (Heaps, Holden, Pause), and six more had four or fewer (Perkins 1, Goodson 2, Marshall 4, Beckerman 3, Rogers 1, Arnaud 2) Only Ching (36) and Pearce (23) had any real experience. That squad was greener than Augusta National in April. The subs (Cronin 0, Quaranta 11, Cooper 4) don’t add much experience. If somebody can do the same for Mexico’s starters and subs, maybe we could get some clarity on this debate.
Ives, just read your post on ESPN. yeah, Ching didn’t set anything on fire, but he deserves at least a 4.5 That still isn’t a good score, but he was clearly the US’s best forward options and played at class above the rest of the team offensively.
Also, while pearce probably deserves his grade, he showed more offensive prowess than a lot of players on the team.
The US winning streak in the US over Mexico started when Mexico dressed a “D” team (club as national team, pumas wasnt it?)……and that gave Mexico havoc……now Mexico got over that hump over a “b” national team….its does matter
I am 100% Mexican and I think that what we saw yesterday was soemthing that we wont see again in a few years. I watch the game in a Mexican channel and something I hate from televisa and TV Azteca is that they think that we are far superiors than US Soccer team. I love my team, El Tri, but i also know that the soccer in the US is better because have invested more time and money. I dont know what is going to happen next month and Ihope we can beat you guys, but, i would not be surprised that we loose due to the great mentality the american teams and palyers have. Go Mexico. P.S. yes some Mexicans are dirty and sometimes i feel ashame of that, but not all of us have lack of education. Viva Mexico and good luck USA.
Luis – Mex Fan, quit being a jerk and giving us Mexican fans a bad name. I think Mexico is going to win on August 12th only because it is at Azteca. I could not say the same in a neutral field. I am shocked at all this “it is okay but we will beat them on August 12th”. It is at Azteca! The US has been horrible on the road WCQ. All of a sudden they are going to beat Mexico at Azteca?
Spain and Brazil underrated the US like Mexico used to do. Mexico will not underestimate the US and this win yesterday will take the media off this teams back and they will be more confident and relaxed. All this talk about the US getting more motivation because of yesterday is sad. There should always be motivation to make the world cup, that is the end goal and if they US is butt hurt and try to take the game to Mexico at Azteca it will back fire. They need to keep their cool heads and hope for a win but settle for a draw.
Luis-Why the hostility, Brother? You’ve got a great team. What’s with the abusive sexual stuff? Take it easy my man. Congratulations on the win.
@Frank-Since you won all that coin, can I a Brutha get a loan? lol.
I think the best times for Mexico are comming. Maybe not before southafrica, but i think is going to be the giant of CONCACAF once more. With dos santos, vela, the little dos santos (played with barcelona already), Ochoa, guardado, barrera, etc. I think the US, Canada, costa rica, el salvador, etc. wont be teams that beat Mexico. If Mexico could invest half of the US budget we could have a much much better team but with no discipline and no mentality, like right now.
@Gerardo Hernandez-Thanks for giving me another good example in how to love your team and respect your opponent at the same time. You sound like a cool guy. You team, as always has the edge in Azteca (anyplace in Mexico) but I hope that the US gives Mexico a better game when we visit this time.
Cuidate, hermano.
ok , no problem, I´ll take it easy , the only thing that botters me a lot !!! is that USA fans are saying that the USA squad was a C+ or D … hahaha please be fair and accept the lose !!! also be ready because in the Azteca you wont beat us , never!!!
@Luis-Never say never, Bro. One day the US will finally win in Azteca. It will happen. I just hope that I am not too old to see it. I’ve been waiting a long time already. Your team played really well yesterday. A lot of USA fans on here have given credit to a team that deserves it. We will see what happens in Atzeca. Until then, enjoy yesterday’s win, hope for many more y calmate muchacho. Good Luck.
First off, I didn’t see the match yesterday, either in person or on TV, so I’m not going to comment on the specifics of the match, because I didn’t see them.
Here’s what bothers me about this result:
- have a little bit of pride when playing your biggest rival. A five-goal thrashing is embarrassing at any level. The players on the field must have a sense of pride for the jersey they are wearing, and 5-nil doesn’t make me think they had any pride.
- the constant bickering about this being a B/C/D team. Folks, does it really matter? They’re representing the colors. If you’re sending a squadron of troops overseas, does it matter if it’s a first/second/third-line division? You’re still expecting them to do their job (no, I’m not comparing playing soccer to going to war – use firefighters if you’d rather to get the metaphor). These guys clearly didn’t.
- the blase manner with which fans are so quick to dismiss this result. You don’t just move on from this. I agree with Brian Ching’s post-game statements 100 percent. People had better be pissed about this – it’s embarrassing.
- Five goals in 33 minutes is inexcusable, but I don’t think all of the blame can be placed on the players on the field. Granted, I didn’t see the game, so I don’t know the flow of the match, but from looking at the game stories, we didn’t use a single substitution on a defender? What kind of manager does that? It’s pretty apparent from the scoreline that our defense was being torched, yet we made NO adjustments to even stop the bleeding? That’s baffling to me…. The points about having some pride? Yeah, that applies to Papa Bradley as well… seems like Bobbo just punched out after the half, no?
I’m actually a lot more calm than I would be if I’d seen the match… but I’m still pissed.
Im really dissapointed, i didnt expect this from the Nats, its discouraging, well, I hope we get done with this in two weeks…
yankiboy … ok , that´s fine you are welcome to come to Mex and enjoy the great game !!
I just want to say one thing more :
cinco a cero hahaha
2 words:
cannon fodder
Well at least you’ve realized the overstatement on Perkins. I thought what we learned from this game is that he definitely played himself out of a trip to S. Africa.
Look playing to Mexico so often it was bound to happen. The facts are the US team beat Mexico in 2002 in the knockout stages. The US beat Mexico 2-0 in 2007 gold cup which landed them on the Confederations Cup. Our youngsters yesterday got the experience of playing in a pretty hostile environment given that most of the crowd was cheering mexico. So yes it is dissapointing but let’s put things into perspective. 5-0 was a great defeat but now we should use it to beat Mexico at home during the qualifiers and more importantly go on a tear into the WC.
My suspicions that Bradley is the wrong coach for the USA continue to grow with this tournament. It looks like Aguirre made all the right half time adjustments and Bradley did not respond. Bradley’s options were limited anyway because he made questionable squad selections for this team (e.g. Heaps in the Finals ?). The USA was lucky to make the final so I guess that in itself is a big accomplishment.
If the USA wins in Azteca (big IF), it will be in spite of Bradley’s coaching, not because of it. Mexico has the better coach and may wind up having the better tactics for the next game.
The Mexican team may have gotten a boost of confidence from this game. But do you think players like Donovan, Dempsey, Bradley, Howard, Gooch, and Bocanegra are going to be less confident because of what happened in a largely meaningless Gold Cup final in which they weren’t even present?
Props to Mexico for the spanking, which every team needs now and then.
Most certainly there were comments about the weakness of the U.S. team prior to the shellacking, many fans were surprised to see that U.S. team do as well as they did. Ives wrote about that early. B team? C team? who cares, they wore our colors and were pounded by the ‘green-meanies’. It happens, hasn’t happened in a while which is more the surprise in my eyes, but clearly that team, much like the team that went to the Copa America a couple of years ago are not the headliners. though that is not an excuse, I truly believe that MNT B team would have beaten our back line yesterday. Dos Santos was on fire and Vela opened the road for him.
So props to Mexico for showing us the reality of that situation on that day.
If Mexico thinks that they’re the best in CONCACAF because they beat our JV (possibly even frosh level) team, they are in for a rude awakening.
The Gold Cup meant nothing to us or else we would have at least kept Adu, Altidore, Bradley, and Dempsey on the roster. This was our chance to get our YOUNG and INEXPERIENCED some playing time, not to win the tourney. Yes, 5-0 is a big loss, but let’s keep it in perspective. Which is hard for a Mexican fan to do, what with their already delusional minds thinking that they are somehow the Kings of CONCACAF.
AUGUST 12TH. MEXICO SUCKS.
Ives…get those humiliating highlights the f*ck off off one of the only respectable US soccer sites we have. We need to take 2 repressitall and forget this ever happened.
This was a C team at best. It means nothing.
A team
—————TIMMY————-
–Cherundolo Gooch Boca Spector–
——-Jones——–Bradley——
–Dempsey—————Donovan–
—————-Ching————
———–Davies—————-
Bench: Edu, Jozy, Holden, DeMerrit, Guzan, Feilhaber, Clark.
Sullivan is great but Bretos loves to perpetuate the MLS and USA inferiority complex.
USA has no leadership on the field. Donovan better take on that role when he returns. Ching must step it up also.
MExicans please stop saying this wasn’t your A 1/2-team! It had players on the roster that started for the A-team!! Torrado,Ochoa,Santos,Vela,Castro,MEgallon,Pinto,Bravo,etc… These are all A-team players and have started with the mexican national team, PURE FACT!!! The mexicans were missing 5 players! While the U.S was missing 4 from a total roster of 22, they only had 2 players that have played in the national team before, but were not present in confederations cup! Out of 19 players in the gold cup, maybe one will be called up, and that would be ching!:)
Mexico wins one game against some U.S kids and all of a sudden their the giants of concacaf!LOL When ever they say 5-0, as Americans you have the right to say 2-0 W.C 2002!!!!That shuld bring them back to reality!
Mexican club finishes 2nd in a tournament that is a preseason warmups for the clubs, and most of the Picante analist start saying that Inter & Milan need improvements because they are looking horrible and what not!! Are these guys retarded?! MExicans have a tendancy of over exaggerating when mexican clubs win!
I’m very proud of the U.S for making it to the final with a bunch of unexperienced young guns, this is something mexicans could have not done!
Hush…
Both Mexicans And Americans over exaggerate a lot. And I mean a big lot.
I have to say I never thought that I would witness a mauling like this. Seeing it in person was something else.
BLAME THIS GUYS:
Brian Ching, Houston
Troy Perkins, Valerenga IF
Jay Heaps, New England Revolution
Chad Marshall, Columbus Crew
Clarence Goodson, IK Start
Heath Pearce, Hansa Rostock
Stuart Holden, Houston Dynamo
Logan Pause, Chicago Fire
Kyle Beckerman, Real Salt Lake
Robbie Rogers, Columbus Crew
Davy Arnaud, Kansas City Wizards
Santino Quaranta Soccer News Topics, DC United Soccer News Topics
Kenny Cooper, FC Dallas
Sam Cronin, Toronto FC
Your resignation from the United States Men’s National Team player pool is hereby enthusiastically accepted.
It’s a tough loss. Mexico played a great game and deserved to win. At the beginning of the tournament, I would have been happy to make the final so we’d have the maximum amount of games to see this group of players. But to make the final and then lose is a tough pill to swallow.
Either way, I’m glad this group of players got lots of playing time so a realistic assessment can be made on whether these guys can help out now or in the future. Clearly some guys did more than others to play themselves into future opportunities.
The first goal was a joke. The player was clearly offside on the second goal. Our right side and center defenders failed on the final three goals.
The USA fans failed by failing to turn out to support these boys when they needed it.
as always the mexican fans are gracious guests.it was a wonderful cultural exchange. at least there was no more beer to throw for goals 4&5. it sucked, but when that happens to the full squad, i will fear mexico. untill then i’ll be reminded of altidore pounding marquez in houston, the crunching tackles in columbus, etc. relax remember who the real sheriffs are
where you there jklins?
Two things suck about this. First is that it gives confidence to the Mexican team ahead of the August 12 qualifier. Not that it matters that much, as our best 11 certainly is capable of beating their best 11, but this has to be a net plus for them.
The second is the Mexican fans. I get tired of their smack talk when they are losing time and time again to our team, so the fact that they got this kind of result makes them positively insufferable. It is funny how a decade of failure has in their minds been swept away by a single lopsided result, not to mention the obvious factor about the relative stregth of the teams. Whatever letters you want to use the undesputable fact is our team had a single player, in Ching, that has ever been used in a meaningful game prior to the tournament. Mexico didn’t have its preferred lineup, but had about half its players seeing regular first team time. Nevermind all that, and it doesn’t excuse the melt down, but it seems to be lost on them as they drag out their old, 1990′s stereotypes about how poorly Americans play soccer. I’ve been hearing it all day today at work. One thing you can count on is Mexican fans having absolutely no class, win, lose or draw and this single reason is why I’ve gone from cheering for them apart from US games to absolutely despising their team.
The upside, of course, is getting a positive result will be all that much more sweeter on August 12 if we can pull it off.
Daniel, no, that’s is not true! Because soccer in the U.S is not our main sport nor do we have analist saying our team is far superior day in day out. Your media is the real drama queen of the Americas. Even the Brazilian & Argentina media doesn’t over exaggerate over their teams!lol
I’ve never heard any American analist say Inter & Milan etc.. need improvements after a preseason game! The Galaxy draw against Milan last week and you didn’t hear analist or fans sayings, yeah we tied MILAN, we are super great,.. Milan needs improments because if they don’t, they will get PWND in serie-A!LOL
Get out of here man!:)
I hate the mexican national team more than I hate the PACKERS & Cardinals!!! Yes, I’m a Bear & Cub fan for life, that should tell you how much I hate their team!lol
Hush.
I got a big shipment of Kleenex boxes coming your way.
Please be a sport and hand them out to all your US buddies so you guys can sit around and cry together and come up with excuses.
From what I’ve seen of the US, there isn’t that much difference between the starters and the reserves. Experience being the advantage for the starting 11.
Same game plan, same defensive strategy.
The US had no answer for Giovani back in February and now the kid is gaining confidence, the only way you’ll be able to stop him is by hacking him down.
This tournament was meaningless because there was no ticket to the Confederations Cup but it’s huge for Mexico because of the confidence boost plus the fact that our young guys have stepped up to the challenge.
You guys can whine all you want but the hypocrisy around here is borderline sad.
All those things you accuse the Mexican supporters of doing, you’re doing them yourselves on this site.
Hope you’ve got some good cheese to go along with that sour grape wine, courtesy of the Mexican National team.
christian, “All those things you accuse the Mexican supporters of doing, you’re doing them yourselves on this site.” I can’t spit at you through this site. It’s one win bro, congrats move on. Q. when is the last time mexi beat spain?
Not to make excuses but what about that first penalty? that was a foul against mexico. how do you call that a penalty? that opened the flood gates. i’m not saying the US would have won but the game would have been much different. i have no confidence in bradley as a coach however. another thing, why are mexico players and fans a like so dirty? it’s perpetuating a stereo-type that paints hispanics in a bad image. i mean if mexico was down 5-0 they would be fouling the crap out of us every chance they got. they tackle so dirty, never get carded for it, and dive like christiano ronaldo and never get called for it. and the fans, throwing beer and piss, classy mexico, classy
Anybody else think the Gold Cup should be held every four years instead of every two? I understand BB’s reasons for next bringing his best team, but we ought to take our regional championship more seriously.
christian, “All those things you accuse the Mexican supporters of doing, you’re doing them yourselves on this site.” I can’t spit at you through this site. It’s one win bro, congrats move on. Q. when is the last time mexi beat spain?
Posted by: harry balsac
Exactly my point.
Most of you think that because you beat a lethargic Spanish team, all of a sudden you’re gonna go down to Azteca and win.
When’s the last time the US beat Brazil?
that wasn’t your point. mex won for the first time in 14 games congrats. now the spanish team wasn’t a worthy opponent.
Bob Bradley is the first major coach to experiment with two at the back. Guus, Klinsi, Special One, are you taking notes?
God help us.
I think the Mexicans made a mistake running up the score there at the end. There was no need for them to score the final 2 goals; the Americans had already given up. I understand that the Mexicans had a lot of pent-up frustrations to let fly (after all, it’s been hard being a Mexican these past few years), but nevertheless it was unwise of their coach to keep sending his players forward in numbers. No matter how much of a “psychological” win this could have been for the Mexicans, the game in Azteca is much more high-stakes and a loss there by Mexico would destroy any “progress” they’ve made by winning on Sunday. If I were Aguirre I wouldn’t have wanted to run the risk of just pissing the USA off. The game was in the bag, respect your opponent and walk away to prepare for the next game. He chose not to do so, we shall see how that works out.
the Americans had already given up.
That’s their fault.
Also, this wasn’t mexico’s B+ squad. it was a b squad as mexico has enough depth to only have to use one of those players as a starter (Torrado)
The fact is that this is a team of B defenders/goalies, a “c” midfield and B-C “forwards”.
Is that better than the US’s – C – goalies and defenders, c – midfield, b – forwards?
Yes, especially on defense. The difference is the mexico “C midfield” is almost as good as the US’s “B midfield”. And for that reason, they owned the game Sunday. The US got dominated in midfield in the second half.
After (re)watching hours on end of the available youtube footage concerning vuvuzelas in the confed cup in SA, I recognized that the sound of the vuvuzelas en masse provoke a kind of mortal discord between the factions of consciousness either pro or anti-vuvuzela. As a fan of the sublime/trancendent/non-human in art and literature, I some how find myself pro-vuvuzela, even though I have a sweet tooth for English chants and supporter culture. The trolling factions on youtube would have it that they’re opposites, but I find them both manifestations of a kind of pagan hive-mind that you can discern in the unintelligible roar of stadiums. I was gutted by the 5-0 (the second gold spelt out clearly hot knife through butter), but was heartened in the first half by the mindless drone of vuvuzelas in Giants Stadium. A bit like the world of Blade Runner, an electric, nameless hum of the urban underground.
Advice:
If you had water or beer fall on you…you can do 2 things. The first is to watch the game comfortably at home. Your second option is to get seats where there is some sort of roof above your head.
It just came to me…you could also wear an umbrella hat
Part of the problem was the double header. The organizers should expect these sort of things given that beer is served during the two matches. Double headers should be avoided.
The Game: Both teams had their B team. The difference was the talent level of the two soccer leagues.
Aug. 12 Match:
Both teams will have their top team and it will be a closer game. The difference will be setting. Estadio Azteca is one of the hardest places to win in the world. Part of it is the capacity to hold 100K fans. Not including the Mexican team, the 3 biggest obstacles will be the heat, smog, and altitude. Only Costa Rica has been able to beat them in a world qualifier. Yet it came on a last minute goal after an error by….you guessed it “Owsbaldo Sanchez”.
I expect Mexico to win by a margin of no more than two goals.
Bradley still has not learned to sub when he sees his team struggling, instead of waiting until the other team scores. In the 2nd half Mexico finally found an effective method to deal with Chings back to goal holding the ball for dsitribution tactic, which was to swarm him from both sides with 2 or 3 defenders. This could render him ineffective in the August 12 game, and I would consider starting Altidore over him for this reason.
Mexico is an average team at best. They put way more money into their league than we do , and their league still sucks. I feel sorry for Mexico. Soccer is all they have, and their not even that good at it. As soccer gets more popular in this country, and our player pool grows, Mexico will have an increasingly difficult time competing with us. It’s only a matter of time.
Americans, your A team does not have the same skills as the Mexican National Team. The Mexican National team was lacking confidence now that we have that, I don’t know what will happen. The U.S. National team is gonna choke at Azteca stadium, that is what I think is gonna happen. They always do.
Ps. The U.S. national team has never beaten Mexico fivr nothing. TAKE THAT!!!!