Brazil 1, South Africa 0: The game-winning goal

Dani Alves (GettyImages)

South Africa fought hard and pushed Brazil to the brink in Thursday's Confederation's Cup semifinals, but ultimately a questionable free kick call and a brilliant shot by Barcelona's Dani Alves kept South Africa from pulling off the second upset of the semifinals.

Now we could focus on Ramires going down like a sniper shot him (U.S. fans will remember these same antics leading to the free kick that produced Brazil's first goal vs. the United States), but instead we will watch Alves hit a beautiful free kick.

What did you think of the goal? Disappointed to see that free kick called? Are you liking the U.S. national team's chances in the final after seeing Brazil struggle vs. South Africa?

Share your thoughts below.

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67 Responses to Brazil 1, South Africa 0: The game-winning goal

  1. Paulo says:

    I think we’ll lose (Brazil will likely rebound from a moribund performance). Not trying to be pessimistic … just realistic.

    Go Red, White, and Blue!

  2. Paulo says:

    Ps. In case anyone here doesn’t know: Freddy Adu tweets all the time … he’s a child, but it’s funny to keep up with his day-to-day thoughts throughout the tournament: link to twitter.com

  3. ko'd says:

    I have heard criticism in the past that Dempsey dives/flops. I haven’t seen much (if any) of that. On the whole, I think the United States plays with integrity. They don’t roll around on the ground like they were hit by a truck, even if there IS a tough foul on them.

    Brazil is notorious for flopping when a defender’s foot gets within 2 yards of them. And that is how they score goals like the one last night? Or the first goal against the United States a week ago? In my opinion, it is disgraceful. For all the step-overs and perfect touches, it is all ruined by what can be aptly described as “cheating.”

    The United States may lose more often. And they may not get the free-kick calls in dangerous places. But at least they play the game with some dignity.

  4. Paulo says:

    Ps2. I’m Brazilian-born and I’d like NOTHING more than for the US to destroy them in the final.

  5. ko'd says:

    And Paulo…last time I checked, the majority of the people on this blog said that the U.S. would lose to Egypt. And to Spain. You don’t get to say “Go Red, White, and Blue” after a comment like “I think we’ll lose (Brazil will likely rebound from a moribund performance). Not trying to be pessimistic … just realistic.”

  6. geoffersen says:

    I like our chances against a team we’ve recently seen, especially right after we’ve shut down a better team. I really hope to see a Clark / Feilhaber midfield.

  7. Paulo says:

    I agree that Brazil flops, but it’s not as bad (or as obvious, should I say) as the Italians …

    It’s disgraceful, but it’s part of the game. I actually think that once Team USA learns to “flop” and “waste time” like Brazil, Italy, Germany, etc … THAT is when we’ll know that the team has reached the upper echelons of soccer …

  8. Paulo says:

    ko’d:

    I’m a bigger fan of Team USA then you’ll EVER be, believe me …

  9. Branden says:

    All you Italian haters should have watched the Italy/Brazil game… It was pretty clear that Brazil was flopping and diving a whole lot more than the Italians.

  10. ko'd says:

    Absolutely not. I think I might struggle to support a team that “flops” and “wastes time.” It may be a part of the game, but in a lot of parts of the world, racism is a part of the game. That doesn’t mean that it should continue to be a part of the game.

    I think players should be disciplined with suspensions if post-game review shows that there is no contact on called-fouls. It might be hard to determine whether there is really a foul when there IS contact, but look at the Bradley foul before Brazil went ahead of the U.S. 1-0. No contact. At all.

  11. Felix says:

    I think people are going to realize how much our Nats will miss Michael Bradley in the next game. Nobody in the Nats pool is as solid and well-rounded in the midfield as Bradley Jr. is.

    I’m not as confidant without him playing.

  12. K1p says:

    I hope to see Clark / Feilhaber also. Shame about the Bradley red tho, I think they were working great together.

  13. ko'd says:

    Paulo, you have no support for that assertion. None. And the only evidence we have is what you have said so far on this blog. I won’t even make the directly contradictory statement that I am a bigger fan than you are because 1) I have no support for that because I don’t know you and 2) how do you measure that type of thing.

    The only real evidence we have is that you are predicting a loss based on “realism.” The team must love that attitude.

  14. Paulo says:

    Ives:

    What is the review process for referees post-game?

    How the F is this Uruguayan Ref still calling high-level games …

    The call on Bradley was absolutely criminal.

  15. Paulo says:

    ko’d:

    Ok, let’s just drop it and assume that we’re both huge fans … otherwise we wouldn’t even be on this blog, correct?

    My opinion is that we’ll lose based on the assumption that 1)Brazil will play a better game against us then it did against South Africa, 2)We will really feel the loss of Bradley … and his ability to break up plays will not be substituted by whoever comes in to take his place, 3)Unlike vs Spain, we don’t have an advantage against Brazil’s size, 4)There tends to be a letdown after a huge win.

    Yes, you can come in here and tell me that Team USA is supremely confident, Feilhaber will posses the ball better than Bradley, etc etc and we will win the game. I sure as HECK hope that happens … but my gut feeling is that we’ll lose a close game.

  16. thedoc says:

    i dont usually notice to many flops/dives from the US. but i sure saw donnovan try a few times vs spain.

  17. Rossi is Judas says:

    Whether you love or hate Brazil, that was a spectacular thing to see. Brazil provides yet another magical moment.

    GO USA!!!

  18. Luke in NC says:

    I just gotta get it out and say that i’m still pissed about the BS red card.

    Star players/teams always get some favor now and then….but is it just me or is soccer way more biased toward its big stars than most sports?

    Then number of crap calls (that have such a huge impact) against us and for teams like Brazil seem criminal and can sap the joy out of the sport.

    Regardless, you definitely gotta give credit to Brazil for making the most out of the penalties they “win.”

  19. Josh says:

    The final will be a study in contrasts: Brazil gets all the calls, even on the worst flops, while the US gets the red cards, even on the cleanest tackles.

    Being the host nation kept South Africa in the other semifinal–Brazil’s flopping would have earned any other team three reds. (I kid, and I don’t want to take away from SA’s tough performance!)

  20. ko'd says:

    Paulo, fair enough. I like that we can take pride in our passion for the team.

    As for free discussion, I disagree with some of your assumptions. I am not convinced that Brazil will play a better game than it did against South Africa, just because it played poorly. I see some real problems with the current Brazil team–problems that have been highlighted by other viewers/commenters/analysts, but not exploited by the U.S. team last time.

    I agree that we will miss Bradley. He has been influential in a lot of our goals, and has controlled play in the midfield. But I am not ready to say that his loss, if using Feilhaber as a replacement, dooms us. By the way, I am going out on a limb here and saying that Michael Bradley may prove to be one of the greatest players in MNT history at National and club team levels–but that is a pure aside.

    We may not have a size advantage, but I am not sure that Brazil, conversely, therefore has the size advantage. We have some big boys on the back line: Spector, DeMerit, Gooch, and Boacanegra. Free kicks? Sure-that’s a Brazil strength and lately, a bit of a weakness for the U.S. That much is clear. But I am pretty confident in the way the USMNT has turned things around, worked on organization, etc. I don’t feel that size will be critical to the game’s outcome.

    Finally, sometimes there is a letdown after a huge win. But the U.S. had a huge win against Egypt, and then beat Spain. Looking at the way they played in both games, I have a good feeling about their direction and, more importantly, their focus. I don’t just think the U.S. CAN beat Brazil. Technically, any team CAN beat Brazil. I think the team is READY to beat Brazil.

  21. saladyears says:

    One of my favorite US flops in recent memory was late in the Spain game, Jozy had the ball by himself on the sideline in the offensive third with no support within about 20 yards of him. A Spain defender came over and *barely* grazed him. Jozy fell over like he was rooted in concrete and tossed off the Brooklyn Bridge.

    Both my brother and I burst out laughing when this happened as he got the call from Jorge.

  22. ko'd says:

    Luke in NC: I totally agree. It makes me so angry. I am a pretty clear-headed person (I think) but I am starting to think there is some type of conspiracy. 3 reds in 4 games? All three were questionable red cards, 1 was definitely a yellow card (Klejstan), but Bradley’s card was ridiculous. Someone mentioned that between Gooch, DeMerit, Clark and Bradley, there were two previous fouls the ENTIRE game against Spain.

    I wish there was some appeal process for the red card, but my impression is that it is just going through the motions. The standard is too high. The refs change the complexion of the game, and they have no business doing that. As Donovan said after the Italy game, 22 players come ready to perform, and the referee simply doesn’t.

  23. Man fan says:

    I’m wondering if the weather will have any influence on the game. Remember, it’s the southern hemisphere’s late fall. It was in the 30s for the US v. Spain game.

    Did the cold temps have some impact on how sluggish Spain looked at the outset? Did it have a similar effect on Brazil?

    If it gets really chilly, could that help our boys surprise Brazil early if they, too, are hampered by the cold?

  24. Mike says:

    On the whole, the US team doesn’t flop…..but Dempsey sure looks like he picked a lot up from the EPL. He actually does 2 flops: one where he realizes that he can’t make a move to get past a defender, and one when he’s already been stripped.

    Both flops require him to lay prone on the ground for 30 second clips. Yes!

  25. NJ Guy No Longer Stuck in DC says:

    @ko’d…brilliant post.

    I was going to recommend the same thing; post-game yellows for players who go down without being touched (simulation). I can think of a few examples where players were clearly trying to gain a huge advantage – Egypt’s keeper against Brazil in the beginning of the game, some Brazilians, and frankly LD’s flop at the end against Spain. Players would stop if they found out that an extra yellow and caution accumulation would keep them out (e.g. LD would be out of the final). I’m not saying he should be out of the final, I’m saying that next year’s WC or internationals after the WC need to start the rule.

    I was thinking less along the lines of racism and more ice hockey. Fighting was eliminated from the international game a long time ago, and it has largely disappeared from important NHL games because of the game misconduct rules/instigator rules, 3rd man in etc. And when this was done many people said it’s part of the game, the culture, you can’t stop it etc. etc. And the game is so much better now that the rules have been implemented.

    Soccer can be the same way. There is nothing worse than big tournaments being decided by reds, dodgy penalty kicks and free kicks within danger distance; simulated injuries to the head or knee when the replays show a player wasn’t even breathed on, etc. There is so much pressure on referees already.

  26. BossTweed says:

    ko’d:

    Per your early comments; you’re an idiot. How else should one make a prediction EXCEPT in accordance with “realism”. Predicting that you’re team will lose doesn’t mean you want them to lose. All he was doing was acknowledging that the US beating Brazil would be an upset. If you can’t accept that, it doesn’t make you a better fan, just delusional.

  27. Rapido says:

    There was nothing questionable about that free kick. It was a foul.

  28. Mike says:

    Can’t we have meaningful debates without people calling each other idiots?

  29. Union James says:

    Having played the beautiful game it breaks my heart to see all this flopping and that the fans have just adopted it as part of the game. I wish players were carded more for “sniper” dives. It is pretty pathetic when the WWE has more realistic contact then soccer games. Now that I am not blinded by pure joy I also am really PO’d about that red card against M Bradley. Any other ref in the world knows that it probably wasn’t even a foul. Just some ref trying to slow down the stars and stripes. GO USMNT!!!

  30. dman23 says:

    CALL IN JONES TO REPLACE BRADLEY FOR SUNDAY….HAHA

  31. Josh says:

    If the goal was a good as that scarf is dumb it would be up for Goal of the Century.

  32. Rastafari says:

    Watch those swift footed Brasilieros flipity flop on the wings..

    O Jogo Bonito.. porra

  33. ko'd says:

    BossTweed,

    First, thanks for joining the discussion by immediately calling me names. You seem like a class act. I am sure you would do the same thing if we were having this conversation at an official U.S. Soccer Bar, in person.

    Second, you weren’t paying attention, and completely missed the context of what I said. I stated, and I am sure Paulo will agree with me on this (we already made nice): “The only real evidence we have is that you are predicting a loss based on ‘realism.'” I was referring to evidence of who was the bigger U.S. fan, not evidence supporting a prediction that the U.S. would lose. Indeed, if you read further, Paulo and I then engaged in a discussion of what evidence there was to predict a U.S. loss. It was fruitful. Your comment was functionally worthless.

    And yes, I still believe, as I have for the past week and a half, that real fans wouldn’t predict that their team will lose. That’s my opinion-others clearly disagree. But it doesn’t make me an idiot.

    Congratulations on adding absolutely nothing to the present discussion.

  34. Drew_ROC says:

    The more I learn about FIFA’s corruption and the way these games are refereed, the more dislike I obtain for the international game.

    I suppose in the end it makes it all that much more important to be so much better than the other teams that a twelfth man with a whistle can’t take you down. Being even or slightly better isn’t enough to win you tournaments

  35. andacagar says:

    That was a terrible foul call,especially that close to the goal at that time in the game. I’ve seen worse fouls not called at all. Matter of fact a couple of runs that S.A. made in which their players were cut from behind to stop the fast break that could have been yellow or even red.

  36. mvk says:

    Brazil doesnt flop, the US gets a fair shake on red card calls, and Micheal Jackson didnt sleep with children

  37. EA says:

    I think there is a fine line between simulation, and flopping to get a call.

    A good example is Jozy’s earned PK in the Italy game. He WAS fouled, but he embellished it to ensure that we got the call.

    I’m actually okay with it, and I do it when I play competitive games. If my jersey is getting tugged, or my ankle is getting stepped on, I’m going to ground more often than not, because I can’t trust the referee to get the call right.

    That’s what it looked like Ramires did in that specific instance to me.

    Now, stuff like Toni (or Iaquinta?) vs. Australia in 2006, or Eto’o in the Champions League final a couple of years back???

    That stuff has to go, and I think post game reviews with fines/suspensions would solve it quick.

  38. Fireball says:

    Anyone else think that’s not the most flattering action shot of Dani Alves?

  39. Michael F. - SBI Mafia Original says:

    Brazil’s play is getting worse. Our play is getting better. Brazil had one less day of rest. We have one more day of rest. I’m just saying.

    More importantly, my wife is Brazilian. I’m American. Please God, oh please God, let this be the day! I want our 2 boys (1 and 3) to want to play for the USA and not be motivated to pull a Rossi!

    A win here could do it!

  40. Paulo says:

    ko’d, BossTweed:

    Come on guys, make up!

    I’ll disagree with ko’d in his argument that a “real fan” wouldn’t predict his team losing … I think of myself as a true fan even though I think we’ll lose. But I can see his side as well … and I definitely don’t feel good about calling the loss.

  41. Michael Cuello says:

    I’m really worried about today’s game with the referee; I only hoping that his decisions don’t influence the game. Is it that difficult really? Just call a fair game, that’s all we ask.

    About the being a fan thing, I’m a huge fan; Brazil is the favorite, so what? I go USA all the way and it’s being this way even when the odds are not in our favor. That’s what makes an upset sweeter, the fact that you can say “I told you so”.

  42. Pico says:

    To all those complaining about flopping in football and your “I am holier than thou” attitude. It is part of the game and the more American players apply their trade in the bigger leagues the more they are going to learn from it and use it to their advantage. Jozy already does it. Dempsey does it too. Donovan sometimes does it and he is not even in Europe.

    The funny thing is that the day the US gets a favorable call in a big game under the same circumstances, those same detractors are going to be lauding the player’s ingenuity and savvy to pull that off.

    And it is not just an issue with football but you see it all the time in the NBA and NFL. Players trying to embellish in order to try to get a call.

    Like anything, it is maddening and frustrating when it goes against your team, but you are willing to look the other way when it benefits you. There is a word for it and it starts with “h”.

    Cheers

    P.S. And do not try to make an analogy between flopping and racism. One if part of the game and the other one is a social disease.

  43. wally says:

    Michael F: Congrats on the Brazilian wife!!

  44. bafana says:

    it was a garbage free kick call – Brazil mugged Pienaar all game long with very few of them called. I am sick of hearing of “jogo bonito” – it died in Brazil a long time ago (at least with the Selecao). More hype than anything with the most overrated player of all time in Kaka.

  45. BossTweed says:

    Ko’d,

    I thought long and hard about calling you an idiot, because I knew I would get your first paragraph response. Internet etiquette is overly sensitive to namecalling when it serves to call attention and is actually backed up with substance. Yes, I believe I would have said that in soccer bar in real life because I find your point preposterous, but that is not the argument.

    Your initial comment, to which I was referring, HAD no context. It was in direct response to Paulo’s prediction that the US would lose. The fact that you and Paulo “made nice”, which I noted, is completely irrelevant. He seems to be a much easier going guy than I and more dismissive of idiotic responses than I.

    “I still believe, as I have for the past week and a half, that real fans wouldn’t predict that their team will lose.” – ko’d

    THIS, and only this, is what makes you an idiot. You’re effectively telling people they aren’t fans because they acknowledge that a US win would be an upset. I am reduced to namecalling because there is no substantive debate that could possibly sway you. This is an “opinion” so ridiculous that it can’t even be argued against. In fact, I am in utter disbelief that you can even call yourself a real fan by this definition. Not predicting the US to lose is logically equivalent to predicting the US to win. You, therefore, if you are a “real fan” by your definition, predict the US to win every game. If this was a true prediction, that you believed with some certainty, you might be willing to even bet on it. I don’t believe you would do that.

    I am neither disputing your soccer knowledge, nor your fandom. But unless you can admit that statement was ill-conceived, you are an idiot, by the literal definition of the word.

  46. Greg says:

    Issuing cards or other punishment after games sounds like a good idea but I think it’s a slippery slope that FIFA will discuss. In assessing whether or not a player flopped, you’d have to determine what his intentions were to call it fairly because a black and white rule wouldn’t work. If you look at the ‘foul’ that led to the first goal of the Brazil v. US game, I think the guy just tripped and it was never his intention to draw a call. If some FIFA official then suspended the guy for flopping because there was no contact, you’d have quite a few unhappy Brazilians.

    We all can probably agree that trying to determine intention when issuing red cards for dangerous tackles is incredibly sticky so why would FIFA put themselves in another tough situation?

  47. ko'd says:

    Pico, you are kidding, right? First of all, you state that I am projecting some type of “holier than thou” attitude. That’s an unsupportable assumption. You say that to cast doubt on my argument by suggesting that I am biased. I CRINGED and turned away when Donovan embellished the bump at the end of the Spain game. You ASSUMED that I was a hypocrite, without knowing. I hate diving in any sport. Diving and winning games by flopping does not show who the deserving team is on the day, regardless of whether it is “my” team.

    And second, could you please quote the exact sentence in which I drew an analogy between flopping and racism? Best I could tell, I said “It may be a part of the game, but in a lot of parts of the world, racism is a part of the game. That doesn’t mean that it should continue to be a part of the game.” I didn’t say flopping was like racism. I pointed out a part of the game that shouldn’t be a part of the game, even if it is often found in the game. Occasionally, performance-enhancing substances are found “in the game,” but that does not mean that we should not take measures to prevent that from happening.

    Your “P.S.” was an insult, and about as close to a “holier than thou” attitude as you will find on this thread. I know that racism is far more serious than flopping will ever be. All I said was that neither belonged in the beautiful game.

  48. augustinho says:

    Oh pity, I´m so sorry about the five times champ, 4 times-in-the-finals of confed cups, so mean and flopping brazil. What a

    contrast against the victim USA. Oh and someone even said that Italy & germany included in the same diving consortia

    all vs kpoor good old US.

    It doesn´t come to paulo´s, josh etc mind that south americans are acute dribblers and refs

    do NOT call many fouls but SOME should be

    whistled at last! Game after game be it Egypt, italy, brazil or spain it´s the same

    salestalk of commentators. Cut that talk, go down to the pitch vs brazil and play more soccer. Or should the yellows line up marta too?

  49. royce says:

    the brazil goal did not come on a flop. that was a rash challenge by a defender who didn’t know he and his teammates had the player under control. that play showed a total lack of feel for the stage of the match and removed control of the outcome from south africa’s play to the referee’s whistle.

    arguably, south africa should have already been up at least a goal by that time. poor finishing, and questionable attacking decisions late in the match unnecessarily gave brazil additional positions and increased the pressure on the south african defense.

    i think that if they made it into overtime, which was clearly the coach’s plan, who knows what would have happened. what we do know is that a combination of poor calls (i’ve seen some references to the muggings of pienaar and other SA midfielders that went unnoticed by the referee), poor attacking judgment, and undisciplined defending around the box spelled their downfall.

  50. Rastafari says:

    What will happen if Brazil is unable to beat the USA in this match? Will it be considered another “upset”?

  51. ko'd says:

    BossTweed,

    You’re right. When you have nothing substantive on which to base your argument, you are “reduced” to name-calling. You said it.

    “Your initial comment, to which I was referring, HAD no context.”

    Oops. You are wrong. My comment stated:
    ———————-
    “Paulo, you have no support for that assertion. None. And the only evidence we have is what you have said so far on this blog. I won’t even make the directly contradictory statement that I am a bigger fan than you are because 1) I have no support for that because I don’t know you and 2) how do you measure that type of thing.

    The only real evidence we have is that you are predicting a loss based on “realism.” The team must love that attitude.”
    —————-
    I was responding to
    —————-
    ko’d:

    I’m a bigger fan of Team USA then you’ll EVER be, believe me …
    —————–

    And when I said that I still don’t believe that “real fans” predict a loss, I still agree. I didn’t say that the win wouldn’t be an upset. Those are two different things, although it is clear that you are simply too dense to understand nuance.

    We have sparred in the past. You have failed miserably. I predict that you will continue to lose. But the difference is I don’t think name-calling is appropriate, especially when we are just having a discussion and I acknowledge that I am stating my own opinion, which others are entitled to disagree with.

    The great thing about being a “fan” that predicts a loss is that you can never lose. If they win, you can revel in it. If they lose, you can say “I told you so.” It’s fun to never be wrong, huh?

    By the way, you can argue against my opinion. For example:

    1) KO’d, I disagree. True fans understand the team’s weakness. I predicted a loss, based on the knowledge I have, but that doesn’t mean I won’t cheer my tail off for them and believe they can win. I merely predicted a FACT, based on what I knew. I still love this team and will watch the game knowing they can win if they do the right things.

    My opinion is neither irrational nor unassailable. You just resorted to name-calling because it was easier and involved lower levels of thinking.

  52. chg says:

    Post-game reviews are the easy answer to all the flopping. Diving still would go on in finals, but it would be greatly curtailed in other games. All cards should also be reviewed post-game. The obvious next step is to base ref assignments on how often an official was tricked by a dive or handed out bad cards.

    I really don’t understand why this hasn’t been implemented already. I know US sports leagues are at the forefront of applying technology to sports, but it’s shocking the rest of the world is literally an entire generation behind and still hasn’t recognized an easy solution to often lamented problem.

  53. Brett says:

    It sucks but when you win 5 world cups, you earn the benefit of the doubt that when you go down, you were fouled.

    Is it fair? No. Such is life…

    The key is to leave no doubt.

  54. BossTweed says:

    Ko’d,

    Just an aside: “…involved lower levels of thinking.” This type of comment is what garners responses that you have a “holier-than-thou” attitude, which I would not dispute. I am guilty of the same, but I readily admit that, for better or for worse.

    Secondly, we are not on the same page as to what this argument is even about. I could care less if you or Paulo is the bigger fan. That’s kind of a silly argument to have, but not one with out a definitive answer — one of you HAS to be the bigger fan, by any definition. What I’m arguing is your reasoning that real fans can’t predict losses. Let’s just lose the term “real fans” because nobody knows what that means, and just summarize your argument as “fans don’t predict losses”. I am, sincerely, not trying to oversimplify your argument as a means of disputing, just trying to clarify.

    While your “clarification” of your argument came later, the initial post to which I was referring, which, still, has no context was:

    “And Paulo…last time I checked, the majority of the people on this blog said that the U.S. would lose to Egypt. And to Spain. You don’t get to say “Go Red, White, and Blue” after a comment like “I think we’ll lose (Brazil will likely rebound from a moribund performance). Not trying to be pessimistic … just realistic.”

    Once again, this boils down to (and tell me if I’m oversimplifying), a fan cannot predict losses.

    Tell me where I go wrong in this logic:

    1) If you are a fan (by your definition), you do not predict the US to lose, ever

    2) Assuming you maintain some sort of prediction, if you are a fan, you predict the US to win (or tie), always.

    3) If this prediction is, in fact, an intelligent one (and here is where I deem you an idiot; that is, one lacking intelligence), you believe the odds are in your favor in predicting a win, always.

    4) If you believe the odds are stacked in your favor, you would be willings to risk something more substantive, and thereby, more rewarding, than your mere word on the fate of a USMNT game.

    Suppose, hypothetically, the USMNT schedule for this summer was Brazil, Spain, Netherlands, Germany; ten games a piece against each opponent. I refuse to believe that even the most delusional of US fans (even YOU ko’d!) would risk anything of value on that fact that the US would win all 40 games.

    If your prediction is that the US would win anything less than all 40 games, you are predicting a US loss, and by your definition, are not a fan.

    If your prediction is that the US WOULD win all 40 games, than I think you are an idiot — one lacking intelligence — and you would lose a lot of money.

    If you think this hypothetical schedule has no place in this argument, than you are admitting that being a fan is dependent on schedule.

    I rest my case.

  55. ko'd says:

    Tell me what is wrong with this picture, BossTweed.

    “I am reduced to namecalling because there is no substantive debate that could possibly sway you. This is an “opinion” so ridiculous that it can’t even be argued against.”

    Then you said…

    “Tell me where I go wrong in this logic:
    1) If you are a fan (by your definition), you do not predict the US to lose, ever
    2) Assuming you maintain some sort of prediction, if you are a fan, you predict the US to win (or tie), always.
    3) If this prediction is, in fact, an intelligent one (and here is where I deem you an idiot; that is, one lacking intelligence), you believe the odds are in your favor in predicting a win, always.
    4) If you believe the odds are stacked in your favor, you would be willings to risk something more substantive, and thereby, more rewarding, than your mere word on the fate of a USMNT game.

    Suppose, hypothetically, the USMNT schedule for this summer was Brazil, Spain, Netherlands, Germany; ten games a piece against each opponent. I refuse to believe that even the most delusional of US fans (even YOU ko’d!) would risk anything of value on that fact that the US would win all 40 games.

    If your prediction is that the US would win anything less than all 40 games, you are predicting a US loss, and by your definition, are not a fan.
    If your prediction is that the US WOULD win all 40 games, than I think you are an idiot — one lacking intelligence — and you would lose a lot of money.
    If you think this hypothetical schedule has no place in this argument, than you are admitting that being a fan is dependent on schedule.”

    So please reiterate why name-calling is appropriate, when you so ably deconstructed my assertion? Hey, I am not contending that I am incontrovertibly right (that’s why we have discussion boards). But you took the easy way out by calling me a name.

    I still disagree with you, but am tired of fighting this battle. I am ready to move on, now.

  56. ko'd says:

    Oh, and BossTweed, if you are going to go all “dictionary” on me, here is what Merriam-Webster’s has to say about “name-calling.”:

    “the use of offensive names especially to win an argument or to induce rejection or condemnation (as of a person or project) without objective consideration of the facts”

    Ding, ding, ding!

  57. BossTweed says:

    I suppose I sold myself short; I didn’t think I’d be able to construct an argument against such a “low level of thinking”. But I did, and you just refused to respond to it because you’re “tired”. It doesn’t take much on your part, just enumerate 1, 2, 3, or 4, where my logic went wrong, and tell me why.

  58. ko'd says:

    BossTweed, I have been arguing my position for a week and a half. I have already wasted too much time today doing this. I actually should be working. SO, if you are willing to wait until after work and save your “see you can’t come up with anything” counter, I will be happy to address, point-by-point, why I feel that I am correct.

    Honestly, though, you have proven to be more acrimonious than interested in having a discussion.

  59. BossTweed says:

    ko’d,

    That’s fine by me. If you write something tonight after work, I will read it, and respond.

  60. ko'd says:

    Happy to. By the by, I appreciate the fact that you are either a) a philosophy major or b) attend(ed) law school. Maybe I am off base…but if you meet either criteria, I am really disappointed that you chose to call me an idiot right off the bat.

  61. Roman says:

    It was a foul, the close-up replay makes it clear. Yes the Samba boys flop, but that one was a faoul at a bad time . . . and an absurd free kick.

    That said I was hoping Brazil would win. Our boys need to be tested by the best early and often to progress. To be the best you have to beat the best. One down, one more to go.

  62. James says:

    Anyone else think that photo should be a “you write the caption” or whatever its called?

  63. JReinhold says:

    KO’d,
    Someone on the internet that you will never meet called you a name, who cares.

    Anybody who thinks the US doesn’t flop is delusional, they just don’t have terrible MLS ref’s calling these games that will award them for it =P. Donavon’s flop at the end of the Spain game, that led to the yellow for dissent, was pretty good though. He made a tap look like Shaq hit him in the face with a tree trunk. Anyways, we can’t complain about flopping in soccer while Manu is still in the NBA.

    Go US! =)

  64. Peter Bering says:

    The dumb and misguided “flopping”-obsession on this thread is annoying. Many years ago dirty players could destroy both games and careers of more talented ones with no consequences. Reforms have made most games far better. Good referees usually see through the real fakers. That some fall extra hard in order to underline real fouls is not a problem, just a slightly comical sideshow. Referees care about the action and not about the results of them.

  65. Jack K. - SBI MAFIA ORIGINAL says:

    I agree that Brazil does tend to flop, but I always hear the same about the Nats. My English friend is talking about the high number of penalties called in our favor. Also, the Italians are infamous for flopping but we are also infamous for complaining about everything, just look at the comments here.

    Always complaining about referees, non calls, red cards, flopping, unsportmenship… the list goes on. I could make a longer list about the complaining we do we ever we play in the Azteca.

  66. ko'd says:

    JReinhold,

    Forgive my belief in a sense of respect, no matter the form of media.

    “Which led to the yellow for dissent”? Yes, Donovan was clearly responsible for Pique opening his mouth.

    “we can’t complain about flopping in soccer while Manu is still in the NBA”? Manu is from Argentina.

  67. LD576 says:

    Didn’t anybody here see Donovan pull a Dida when he was tapped against Spain. He deserves an Oscar for that acting. It sounds like the majority of US fans are homers and turn a blind eye when one of their own does it, but love to accuse other countries as they take a high moral ground and say, “one of our boys would never do such a thing, its just un-american”