More mistreatment for Red Bulls fans at Giants Stadium (updated)

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It was supposed to be a day to celebrate soccer, as well as watch an entertaining soccer game. For some unfortunate Red Bulls fans, it was just another day of avoiding harrassment from Giants Stadium security.

Several members of the Red Bulls’ largest supporter’s group, the Empire Supporter’s Club, were ejected and banned from Giants Stadium after altercations with stadium security. It would be foolish to assume that the fans were completely blameless in the incidents, but the clashes with security are the latest in a history of conflict between stadium security and the Red Bulls’ most ardent supporters.

I have spent most of my life in New Jersey and have been to Giants Stadium both as a journalist and, on some occasions, as a sports fan, and it has been clear to me for some time now that there is a different attitude and approach by Giants Stadium security toward soccer fans than there is toward almost any other fan group that visits the venue. This can’t obviously be blamed on every single member of Giants Stadium security, but it can be blamed on a good number of security guards who appear more eager to get involved in confrontations with fans at soccer games than other events like football games.

The events of this weekend did little to dispel that belief. Along with having more than a dozen members of the ESC ejected from Saturday’s match, another Red Bulls fan who was ejected and banned was 2006 Red Bulls fan of the year Thomas Binkley, who was given the boot because of a verbal confrontation with a couple (it should also be noted that Binkley was seated in section 109, not 101, where most of the day’s other hostilities took place). Binkley, a fan who travels from Virginia to attend home games (he is a season-ticket holder) and is one of ESC’s leaders and road trip organizers (and who was interviewed for an ESPN.com story that same day) has now been banned from Giants Stadium by security guards who probably just saw another ‘rowdy’ soccer fan who needed to be put in line.

The mistreatment isn’t limited to Red Bulls matches. International friendlies almost always have their share of incidents and while there are clearly occasions where fans are to blame for problems because of their bad behavior, the combative and hostile attitude of some stadium security sure doesn’t help create a peaceful environment.

While the incidents at international friendlies are one thing, having constant battles between security and the team’s leading supporter’s group is unacceptable. Security at the stadium has helped turn Giants Stadium into a hostile environment for soccer fans who have supported the Red Bulls/MetroStars for the past dozen years and this can be blamed, at least in part, by the fact that the team those fans support do not own the stadium.

Think about it. If you ran the stadium, would you care much about a tenant who doesn’t make you much money, and more importantly, is leaving in a year?

So why are the Red Bulls to blame? Obviously they aren’t the main ones to blame (the New Jersey Sports & Exposition Authority is), but Red Bull New York is the organization that should care about its fans and should be working on the behalf of their fans to seek better treatment. Whether it be by having team liaisons sit in section 101 to help (The club says these exist, though it is unclear what they do), or by working with the NJSEA to establish a better system for fans to appeal when they are ejected and banned, the club could be doing far more than it is currently doing to help its fans deal with an environment that can only be described as hostile (as evidenced by this salutation from one security guard on the far left toward ESC members following Saturday’s match).

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"I know there is a long, complicate history between the security guards at Giants stadium and the ESC," Red Bulls managing director Erik Stover said. "I think it’s unfortunate and its something that we’re going to fix when we move into the new building.

"I think the Sports Authority has a lot of rules and tends to lean towards things being black and white," Stover said. "It’s clear to me that the set of rules doesn’t fit in with everyday soccer life."

Stover acknowledged that there are issues that need to be addressed, but admitted that the Red Bulls are limited in their ability to make real chances in how the NSEA polices the crowd at Red Bulls games.

"I’m just kind of frustrated that I don’t have a simple solution," Stover said. "We’re committed to doing everything we can to make the experience as manageable as possible between now and when we move into Red Bull Park."

(Stover also stated that Red Bulls fans who were ejected and banned who feel they were unjustly ejected should contact the Red Bulls’ fan services department. The club will then look into their incidents to see if they were properly handled.)

Most Red Bulls fans can’t wait for Red Bull Park to be built next year because it promises to be a better game-day experience, and more beautiful home for their soccer team, but many are counting the days until the team moves out of Giants Stadium so that they don’t have to deal with mistreatment by stadium security, and indirectly, the very team they support.

What do you think about the game-day experience at Giants Stadium? Do you feel security is fair in its handling of soccer games and soccer fans? Have you had a bad experience with security at Giants Stadium? Share your thoughts below.

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237 Responses to More mistreatment for Red Bulls fans at Giants Stadium (updated)

  1. Squard says:

    Thank you for bringing this matter to light. I don’t think most of the soccer public realizes how bad security really is at Giants Stadium, especially at soccer games.

  2. Richie B says:

    Having never been to a game there and this story being the only thing I’ve ever heard about this issue my only opinion is that the person who ran onto the field during the USA-Argentina friendly is an idiot, what did he expect to happen and why in the world should we feel sorry for him?

    Good luck to RBNY fans in riding out the main problem with stadium security until the new stadium is built.

  3. Dr. Rockzo, The Rock N' Roll Clown says:

    It’s the same crap in New England. Security are taught to equate passionate support (or Tifo) with hooliganism and there’s no one from the clubs or higher up in the security organization to step in and teach them otherwise.

  4. Brian H says:

    You run on the field. You are asking for trouble.

    I saw that incident in person, and I dont’ think he was manhandled. He had to be tackled to be caught. The worst thing the guy did was knock his arm down when I he tried to wave to the crowd.

    Your insinuating that he got “beat up” in the tunnel after leaving the field. Do you have evidence of this?

    ..

    That being said.. I hate the security at the meadowlands. But that kid running on the field is a poor example of mistreatment.

  5. MasterShake says:

    Thank You.

    I was right in the middle of the scuffle, luckily I didn’t get banned (probably because I am white and don’t look “dangerous”). The guards were out looking for trouble, instigating every time. They use profanity toward us and racial slurs, but banned Binkley because he cursed at some couple who come once a year to watch Beckham play? They are not trained to calm the situation down, there was a world of difference when State Troopers showed up to diffuse the situation, they were polite and respectful, while the NJSEA guards were acting like little children.

    They dont care about soccer or soccer fans, they get to abuse some people every other weekend and they get pleasure out of it. There was no need for what happened, innocent bystanders were being trampled and caught in the middle of the scuffle and an innocent girl was elbowed in the head by one of the guards.

  6. DoctorK says:

    Thanks, Ives, for being the sole member of the local media to bring our plight to light.

  7. Sergio says:

    This mistreatment has been going on since day 1. It is ne of the many reasons why support hasnt grown as much as it should. People show passion and they get thrown out. Granted sometimes people need to be thrown out but from what I witness 9 times out of ten they can look the other way or come in and do alittle more investigating than grabbing the nearest person(not the culprit) and throwing them out.

    Having abit of a less agressive approach and also being more lenient on gray area things like “cursing” will go a long way.

    Save the aggressive “policing” for real criminals or people who are just downright mis behaving. I know atleast 20 people who got tired of getting harrased and stopped coming. People dont want to pay tickets, parking, gas, tolls to get harrassed for doing things like waving a flag or saying “sucks”.

  8. inkedAG says:

    Giants Stadium has been hostile for years. The security there is a total Goon Squad who will fight and eject anyone they deem threatening whether they are or not. You even breathe in their direction, they’ll harass you.

    It’s very simple. NJSEA can give f**k all about soccer and it starts at the top with George Zoffinger. Over the years, he has made his Jim Rome-like thoughts known about the soccer franchise in New York.

    Now, in Red Bull, you have an organization that only cares about selling their beverage and will blow smoke and mirrors that they actually care about their soccer team. Smart fans know they care just as less as MetroMedia and AEG did before them. They hired a former NJSEA employee as their Managing Director for Pete’s sake!!! I’m not all surprised that fan treatment is now worse under Erik Stover’s “leadership.”

    And this ties into all of the problems this franchise has. When the Owning Organization doesn’t care, and hires people who don’t care and don’t know how to run a sports team, how do you expect the players to care and win games? How can you expect people to then go to a hostile environment to see a game? And Red Bull Park is not going to be a panacea. If idiots are still running things, things will not get better. Maybe in the short-term, people will go to Red Bull Park for the curiosity factor, but if you have fools running the show, who is to say that the goons they hire at RBP will be any better than the goons at GS?

  9. onionsack says:

    Ives i know this kind of story really isn’t your beat, but i sincerly appreciate you taking the time to acknowledge what has been going on here.

    Also i may add, they seem much much more eager to have a go at latino fans. all but one person ejected yesterday was latino and in all the videos you can clearly see them doing mothing but try and break up the incident to avoid escalation.

  10. tim says:

    I heard about this story earlier and it is pretty amazing that stuff like this happens. I started coming to games this year mainly becaue I just moved up to NY and wanted an MLS team to follow after years of just watching the league with no real interest in a team. But I am a huge fan now and really get behind “my teams.” I sing, cheer and yell the entire game and basically have a great time doing it. This story though makes me sick that fans aren’t treated with some sort of respect. I was almost kicked out of the Galaxy game in the second minute of the match, because I was still standing cheering the Red Bulls after kicked off. I was about to sit down and some guy with his wife and 2 kids starts to yell, holler and curse(setting a great example for his kids) at me and my friends to sit down. He runs off, gets security and they threaten us with being kicked out. It was nuts. You would think security would have more important things to do than kick someone out for standing for a couple minutes or saying a few “bad” words in the stands. Anyway, long post, but hopefully this issue will be resolved by RBNY because I am sure there are a ton of incidents like this that happen, and shouldn’t.

  11. gprime says:

    it’s good to see this getting SOME attention. if only this could be brought to light on a national level (at least to MLS).

  12. Seth|NYC says:

    This has been an ongoing issue since the beginning.

    CSC is the problem. Period. End of story.

    In RFK, they used to have many of the same problems. These disappeared when the team (!) took CSC out of the supporters groups areas and replaced them with DC Police. It’s more expensive but it solves the problem. I truly hope that RB will fix this easily solvable problem at RB Park.

    ps. that kid is a poor example and he was asking for it by running onto the field. The much bigger problem is that these issues arise with CSC almost every single game.

  13. ldq says:

    I agree with Rockzo. I’ve seen the same kind of treatment, though not as often, by Security at Gillette stadium. It’s obvious that security has a disdain for energetic fans of a sport they probably don’t like in the first place.

  14. Paul says:

    How about Stover and RBNY interceding on behalf of the ejected/banned fans to get their punishments lifted? Failing that, if there really is evidence of discrimination based on race or ethnicity, then there’s a potential lawsuit against NJSEA lurking in this situation somewhere.

  15. ELAC says:

    One thing that has helped the Union Ultras (Chivas USA supporters) from similar security clashes is increasing the open dialogue with Home Depot security.

    I hate to say it, but it seems security officials see soccer fans as potential hooligans (felons) when they see a large group with drums, flags, non-stop singing. Too much culture shock, sometimes. Hence, talk to security and send a constructive message.

    my 2 cents.

  16. Pete says:

    I think you’re kind of missing the biggest point (which Shake touched on), while showing the big picture.

    Yes, there are two different sets of rules for soccer supporters and football fans in Giants Stadium. In fact, on Saturday the yellow nazis (NJSEA security guards) were clearly coming into the section to start something and get more people thrown out, when simply leaving with the one person they had come for would have diffused the situation. But as a member of the ESC with season tickets in 101, what I find to be the most reprehensible and unacceptable distinction NJSEA makes is the one between white soccer supporters and latino soccer supporters. Sure, they treat us both like dirt, but latinos clearly make up a larger percentage of those thrown out and banned. This, mind you, from an organization that let the sexual harassment of women go on for years at Jets games and has been accused (and I think sued) in the past for harassment against Muslims. This is not a coincidence; this is a trend, and it is one that must be brought to light so that justice can be served.

    By the way, Ives, to whom does NJSEA answer? The Meadowlands? (and if so, who is the Meadowlands? Is that the Giants, or some group of investors?) The New Jersey state government?

  17. Collin says:

    I know the Cauldron has experienced similar problems at Arrowhead Stadium in KC. I agree that a SSS will be a big help (in both teams’ cases).

  18. andy b. says:

    Being a left-coaster myself, where admittedly EVERYTHING is a little more “chill,” this is an especially bizarre story to read. I don’t ever have trouble believing security can get abusive– a lot of it is about people who have a tough job being put in a situation where they are allowed to use force but not given much supervision over their use of that force; that’s why in criminal defense circles you learn that security guards are just as likely (if not more) to get out-of-control abusive as cops. What I wonder, however, is what Ives and others who have witnessed/experienced think about this. First, does this have anything to do with a general stereotype about soccer “hooligans” by security, even though there is obviously no connection between European hooliganism and US soccer fans? Second, do you think this has anything to do with a general disdain for soccer as a strange/ foreign/ inferior “commie” sport?

  19. Pico says:

    This is crazy. Can you imagine if a fan tries to bring flares to a game as is done in stadiums all over the world? I actually have a air-raid siren that I got while in Italy and I am not sure if I should bring it to a Red Bulls game.

    Cheers

  20. former rb fan says:

    have you seen the professionalism of the NJsea on display yet…got to the 50 second mark if yer in a hurry

    link to youtube.com

  21. joe k says:

    those guys in 101 are true fans for sure — a golthwaite jersey? sassano?

    but seriously, there was noticeably less ‘cursing’ coming out of 101 the other day.

    the real problem is that soccer is still a family-oriented outing in the u.s., so the swearing should be kept to a minimum while in the company of those families — section 101, though, should have free reign to yell and scream as much as they want.

  22. A.S. says:

    Given that there was a huge brawl between West Ham supporters and Crew supporters over the weekend, it seems to me to be a bad time to pick on stadium security.

    It is impossible to know who is in the right and who is in the wrong in these situations unless *we know what the fans were doing*. Stadium security *should* kick out rowdy fans. Stadium security *should* kick out fans who are getting into “verbal confrontations” with other fans.

    I can’t stand going to games where drunken fans are most interested in insulting other fans and getting into fights. Good bye and good riddance.

  23. Ryan says:

    >> but banned Binkley because he cursed at some couple who come once a year to watch Beckham play?<<

    After reading the ESPN article prior to reading this comment, it sounds as if Binkley had a chip on his shoulder to prove that he’s the “ultimate” soccer fan and more than likely, felt like it was his “duty” to prove it to those wearing Beckham jerseys. Jerks like this are at a lot of MLS stadiums and my 8 year old daughter had a few ignorant comments last year at the Fire-Galaxy game soley because she was wearing a Beckham jersey.

  24. onionsack says:

    WATCH THIS

    i appologize for linking Ives but this is something very relevant to this topic.

    After the game a van laod of NJSEA came to our lot to start something. The police made them leave eventually. At the :53 second mark one NJSEA guard gives the finger to a woman with the video camera.

    They are no angels guys, they clearly had an agenda to go bust someone up then peel out in their van.

    link to youtube.com

    I have also heard them repeatedly use racist language towards latinos and attempt to incite altercations by insulting and cursing at fans. It has to stop soon or something dire is gonna eventuall happen and it will be a black eye for everyone.

  25. EdTheRed says:

    @A.S.: why is this a bad time to pick on stadium security? The incident in Columbus happened because security there stood idly by as 30 or so fans wearing the visiting teams colors marched right on into the home supporters’ section. That’s a different kind of poor performance than what NJSEA demonstrates week-in, week-out, but it’s still terrible security.

  26. Speedball says:

    Thanks, Ives for bringing this to light.

    It’s a bit ironic that security hauls off someone for crowd-surfing, presumably so he won’t get hurt, only to throw him up against a wall when he tries to read the paper they gave him outlining why he was being banned.

    I hang with the ESC pre- and post-game, but rarely venture into 101 because of the harassment you get there from security. I can yell at the players and refs from the safety of my sideline seats … although, based on Mr. Binkley’s case, I see that that is no longer tolerated either.

  27. Aaron says:

    Its the same at Rice Eccles in Salt Lake. The stadium security know that the team will be leaving soon for our new stadium and feel that gives them the right to abuse the soccer fans.

    There was a similar incident when a season ticket holder was yelling at the opposing player taking a corner kick when some guy sitting in the stands with his 2 kids was offended. He confronted the season ticket holder and instigated a fight. One thing led to another and ultimately the stadium security decided to throw out the supporter and let the other guy, who instigated the fight, return to his seat with his family. What a joke.

    During the last home game, some suit walked up and told our section that anyone who approches the corner during an opponent’s corner kick will be thrown out. Anyone who throws confetti in the air after a goal will be thrown out. He informed us that we are tennants in the stadium and because we are guests we should be more polite. Im sure they will see how polite we will be during our last game in the staduim this fall.

  28. john says:

    Wait, Jersey has racist goons?! But we live in the north!

  29. BanBinkley says:

    Hey Ives,

    how would you like it if people were calling your daughter disgusting names. This coming from people who wet their pants every time they walk into someone elses building. Be careful who you protect

  30. josh says:

    Isn’t this the same security that killed a kid at a Dead show a while back? I have never been to Giant Stadium, but I have always heard that it is a nightmare for anything but football. Red Bull needs to get out of there, but they do need to take some responsibility for the event.

    However, I know that we all want to be like the passionate european fans, but until we start selling tickets separated by home and away sections, we are going to have to grow up a bit and be tolerant of the people around us. I am only drawing my facts from this article and its comments, but this Binkley guy cursing at what he deemed fair-weather fans is unacceptable as well. If you want to emulate your hero fans of europe fine, but remember that they separate the home and away fans, allowing for chants and songs to be hurled back and forth between groups. This one-on-one insult stuff is just hurtful and useless.

  31. kpugs says:

    This also depends on the security guards as individuals. There are plenty of them at each game who are just fine. My section is rather tame, but myself and my friends can get rowdy from time to time. We’ve never been ejected, and even the most d**kheaded security personal tell us to either calm down or relax if we get too crazy. We’re also rather harmless; we know there are families there and do our best to watch our mouths even when harassing other players. In fact this past Saturday we had our security guard cracking up.

    The problem is like several people have said: they see 101 and look for a reason to boot people out of the stadium. They don’t see passion, they see hooligans.

  32. Dick Mac says:

    Your equivocation on the issue of security is disheartnening.

    You say “some” of the security personnel, but I challenge you that the ENTIRE security organization at NJSEA is problematic and participates in these incidents. NJSEA’s yellow shirts celebrate a sociopathic bent that makes violence their only course of action. Theirs is a culture of violence. These are not responses to isolated incidents of violence.

    You should also disucss the racist angle that is clear during these incidents. The yellow shirts like to single-out Latino and Hispanic fans, and treat them much more harshly (if that is possible) than their White and Anglo counterparts.

    At Meet The Team night, earlier this year, I found myself stalled at the barrier near Jozy Altidore, right next to a yellow shirt. He was glaring at me, so I smiled and said, ‘Hey, how’s it going.’ He punches his fist into his hand and says: ‘I was hoping for a little action with my buddies tonight.’ He was in the practice bubble with a bunch of families — what kind of violence was he hoping for?

    And this issue is specific to soccer. The yellow shirts do not abuse fans at Jets or Giants games. In fact, the media finally reported last year that security stands by silently while women are assaulted on the spirals. If the yellow shirts were really providing security, they would be ejecting men who abuse women at NFL games. But, they don’t.

    NJSEA has a double-standard, and it means that soccer fans are left to fend for themselves against a lawless band of private security goons hired by a quasi-governmental agency.

    Look at the behavior of the State Police at matches, and you will see that they do not unilaterally support the actions of the yellow shirts. The State Police are required to assist the yellow shirts, but it is clear they do not condone their behavior.

    NJSEA has been allowed to perpetuate a culture of violence against soccer fans. Do we have to wait until someone is killed before this will be stopped?

    I’m glad you are writing about this, but if the media equivocates then there is no story. Soccer fans in the area need the media to expose this violence.

    Thank you for this article, and I hope you will continue to shed light on this situation.

  33. Speedball says:

    “After reading the ESPN article prior to reading this comment, it sounds as if Binkley had a chip on his shoulder to prove that he’s the “ultimate” soccer fan and more than likely, felt like it was his “duty” to prove it to those wearing Beckham jerseys.

    Posted by:Ryan | July 21, 2008 at 01:37 PM ”

    Ryan, you don’t know Tom Binkley like I do, you weren’t there like I was, you’re not a Red Bull fan like I am, you know nothing of this situation. Tom did not attack someone for wearing a Beckham jersey. He yelled down at Beckham because he was looking at the crowd instead of following the play of the game. He told Beckham that he “sucked”. The soccer mom got on his case because of this one word, because, presumably, she keeps her kids in a vacuum container when not at Giants Stadium.

    Let me know the next time a Giants season ticket holder gets tossed from a game because a visiting Eagle fan complains to security that someone yelled “McNabb sucks!”.

  34. MasterShake says:

    Lets not pretend that because you bring your kid to a game you can curse at us without any repercussions.

  35. JayDelight says:

    Binkley dropped a “F” bomb in Section 109. That’s what occured.

    That’s fine if security didn’t like, they could have easily moved him to a different section. Or at worse, kicked him out of the stadium for the evening.

    Lifetime banishment from Giants Stadium? Your kidding yourself.

  36. mikeK says:

    BanBinkley- IT’S SOCCER! IT’S A SPORT! S-P-O-R-T. COMPETITION!

    The fact is, Binks loves his team. Absoultely adores. He drives from Virginia, gas prices how high, because he loves his team.

    How do you think a Devils fan gets treated when he walks into the garden with a Devils jersey on. How does a Patriots fan get treated when he walks in a Jets home game? Like crap, of course! How could you expect people to be “Oh, I see you’re a Patriots fan. Cool.” IT DOESN’T HAPPEN! AND IT SHOULDN’T! It’s sports, and people are passionate about their teams.

    If you were smart, you’d tell your daughter to wear neutral colors. Keep the Becks jersey at home. Wear it when you go out to LA to see him play at his home field.

    Better yet, throw an Angel jersey on her and root for your local team, ya puke.

  37. Allen says:

    “Think about it. If you ran the stadium, would you care much about a tenant who doesn’t make you much money, and more importantly, is leaving in a year?”

    For the sake of fans in the NYC area, I hope that is true. But be warned, Kroenke used to claim it was being at Invesco that was tieing their hands when it came to security. The same sort of shenanigans are occurring at their very own stadium, The Dick. And they -surprise, suprise- still claim that their hands are tied. I’d be very worried that ownership that isn’t interested in solving the issue right away is always going to be coming up with reason why they can’t fix it today.

  38. Christopher says:

    Revs fans feel your pain. We have a similar, but not as caustic relationship with our security team. NJSEA is by far the worst of the worse. Keep fighting the good fight ESC.

  39. gerald says:

    People who comment on Binkley without knowing the facts should shut up. go to the metrofanatic board and get the facts

  40. TCompton says:

    I can’t wait for Red Bull New York to move to Harrison. While I think the club has been mismanaged up until this point, you can put me into the group that believes (maybe foolishly) that once the club moves into their own home, the worst will be over.

    I’ve seen over-zealous security guards at a lot of soccer games at RFK, and unfortunately, the miscommunication from both sides (the fans and the CSC) has lead to a lot of the challenges we see today. United has done a lot to help the supporters to feel safer though.

    For example, the growth and success of the Barra Brava has also brought in a lot of “fans” who believe they can do whatever they want, where ever they want. This comes from la Barra Brava’s “general admission” policy to their sections. While the leadership of the Barra had, in the past, done a good job of keeping everything under control, the growth in the number of members/guests in recent years has made it extremely difficult for them.

    As a result, la Barra Brava, the Screaming Eagles, DC United, and CSC has worked together to put a railing seperating the general admission sections of la Barra Brava section from the ticket only seation of the Screaming Eagles. Additionally, DC United and CSD has provided the Screaming Eagles with ushers to help move the “general admission” crowd out of the Screaming Eagles sections.

    The part where I believe that the Red Bull organization can help is to work with their support groups and Security to prevent these events from happening to begin with.

  41. BETO says:

    being strict with nitpicky rules are one thing. being openly belligerent and violently hostile towards patrons who are non-violent is beyond ridiculous. i HATE the NJSEA.

    they mistreat, intimidate, and abuse paying customers at every game and get away with it.

  42. Paul says:

    Neither Ives nor anyone else in this thread has described exactly what happened. Even assuming that the security people were looking to cause a confrontation, and/or are biased or dangerous, it’s hard to evaluate things without knowing the basic facts. What kind of “verbal confrontation”? What other “bad behavior”? If security overreacted or ejected too many people, it would be helpful to know what or whop started the ball rolling. Is it possible that some of the ejections were called for?

  43. Kyonk says:

    The yellows also get a little big for their britches because at soccer games, there’s not as many people as at football games. They see the empty seats and feel like they’re more in control than a Jets game. They’re still dicks though.

  44. Jeff says:

    Ives,

    It sounds like you are trying to start a revolution. Let’s hope some people who read this don’t take it too far.

    After reading a lot of people’s comments, it sounds like every one has a complex about being a soccer fan. “we aren’t treated right, they are mean to us…blah, blah, blah.” I saw the same thing yesterday at the Crew game first hand. It’s becoming a joke.

  45. brett says:

    my guess is these “security gaurds” were Highschool Football jocks that failed in real life and now looking for ways to relive their glory days by picking on fans of a sport they deem inferior….

    the faster our teams can get out of football stadiums and into their own houses the better…..

  46. MasterShake says:

    Jeff, none of us want trouble what we want is fair, respectful and justifiable treatment. Like I said there was a world of difference when NJ state troopers showed up, they knew how to diffuse the situation.

    NJSEA guards couldnt stop instigating with racial slurs and profanity. Maybe once you get banned for life you will understand.

  47. Mike V. says:

    I consider Tom Binkley to be a good friend of mine and to hear people who don’t know him attack him is discusting. He was reported to security for telling Beckham he sucks. The fact that the complaint was even taken seriously is a joke.

    The real problem here (not in 101 which is complete different situation) is that people have to realize that soccer is a sporting event like any other in a country. It is not a special secluded family bubble sport that exists one night a year for you to bring the kiddies too. There are people who invest their money,time and passion into this sport and the fact that a soccer mom at her first game holds precedent is ludicrous.

    My father has brought me to sporting events since I was 3 and I heard cursing at baseball, football, hockey and basketball games. Soccer is no different and just so all hyper sensitive parents can relax I am a perfectly well adjusted succesful person despite the fact that I heard the word sucks at a young age.

    Soccer is not an exception, it has die hard fans and does not serve to entertain families for one night a year, despite the behaviour of front offices around the league. If you expect to go to a game and not hear a curse or hear comments when you cheer for the opposing team then don’t come, it’s as simple as that.

  48. Paul says:

    Interesting to see this today – we had another problem Saturday night – over zealous security trying to usher us out after the game – I have season tickets at the front of section 111. About 5 minutes after the game, while there are still players on the field and a line trying to walk up the stairs, the ushers are forcing people out of their seats. They started picking a fight at a couple that stayed seated and said there there was no-where to go so they would sit a while longer. Unbelievable considering it took us close to an hour to get out of the stadium with all the construction traffic. I’ve noticed that they started this activity a few games back.

  49. JH says:

    mikeK – I’ve read some pretty dumb things on this site in the past, but excusing bad behavior because someone loves their team is no doubt the dumbest, most juvenile thing I’ve read.

    So, basically, you have no problem then with the West Ham fans who supposedly started a fight in Columbus. The fact that they love their team and came a long way to see them I guess gave them that right?

    Wow, you’re not that smart are you?

  50. MV says:

    JH, If you went to a yankee game in a Bosox jersey would you expect not to hear anything? (for the record that’s not even what happened to Binkley who didn’t yell at anyone for wearing a jersey) If your wearing a jersey of an opposing team and expect not to catch any flack maybe you’re the one who’s not so smart.

  51. mike from linden says:

    here is the link to the video – link to youtube.com

  52. Jeff says:

    Mastershake,

    I’ll use an old phrase, “Where there is smoke, there is fire”. I am sure that there are some injustices in this case, but let’s not be naive. I have no doubt in my mind that if someone gets banned for life, they must have done something that seriously offended some other fans or the security crew. Especially somone who is supposed to be the teams biggest fan. I am sure that if this guy was such a big fan, that the security crew knows him. That being said, he probably had it coming to him. Just because he is a season ticket holder doesn’t mean that he has the right to do whatever he wants.

  53. chosun says:

    This whole business with the NJSEA sounds like the typical meathead mentality that soccer is a sport for wuss’. I remember the football players in HS (NJ) calling soccer a p*ssy sport. I played lacrosse growing up but always had the utmost respect for soccer. I never quite understood the whole “tough guy” attitude. I was at the game, but was sitting on the completely opposite end of the field, so I missed all the nonsense.

  54. East River says:

    Got to say those guys NJSEA are asses. During the Gold Cup final in 2005 I was surrounded by Panamian fans standing around me and yelling loudly. But when I stood up and did my pro-US yelling it was NJSEA people who singled me out and ask me to sit down. UNREAL! I was like what about the other people? Needless say I sat down the guy went away and then I got back up an kept on yelling.

  55. mike from linden says:

    here are two videos of what happened – link to youtube.com

    link to youtube.com

  56. MikeV says:

    Jeff, please read my post earlier. At Giants stadium having a lifetime ban in no way means you acted innapropriately. I was recently given a lifetime ban for trying to go into ESC with a ticket for a different section. The ticket was more expensive and it is the policy of the ESC and the Redbulls to allow fans from other sections into 101 in addition I have been in 101 for years and was just trying to save money by taking a free ticket froma friend. I cooperated with security completely, as did Binkley, because I assumed since I did nothign wrong I had nothing to worry about. Instead I was given a lifetime ban for not breaking any rules.

  57. Reid says:

    are these parents that buy beckham jerseys for their kids and then want everyone to be all smiles towards them the same parents that want everyone to get a trophy in little league.

  58. A.S. says:

    “@A.S.: why is this a bad time to pick on stadium security? The incident in Columbus happened because security there stood idly by as 30 or so fans wearing the visiting teams colors marched right on into the home supporters’ section.”

    The point is that it is unseemly to criticize stadium security for being too heavy-handed when, in Columbus, the security took the light-handed approach that most commenters here seem to think is prefereable, and they had a brawl.

  59. MasterShake says:

    Actually Jeff you are wrong and this is where the problem lies. NJSEA do not know who he is and certainly do not care. NJSEA have been known to simply not care about soccer or its fans..etc, they dont care and are in no related to RB.

    “I have no doubt in my mind that if someone gets banned for life, they must have done something that seriously offended some other fans or the security crew.”

    This is the problem you are not understanding, they didnt. There are better ways to handle a situation than a lifetime ban, it seems NJSEA just wants to ban everyone they can get their hands on. They could’ve simply asked Binkley to calm down or moved him to another section. It is a soccer event, its our home team playing and if “Beckham sucks” chants really offend you then maybe you shouldnt be at a soccer event? Soccer is not exclusively a family sport, there a lot of passionate die hard fans.

    The mess in 101 which is completely separate from Binkley started after someone crowd surfed, NJSEA raided the section as if there was something dangerous going on and there are multiple accounts of people being trampled and violently pushed out of their way..etc. A girl was elbowed in the head by one of the guards and that started the whole mess that you see up there in the picture.

  60. JH says:

    MV – I’m not talking about this Binkley dude. I was talking about mikeK’s post.

    It sounds you think its alright to verbally abuse an 8 year old girl because she’s wearing the opposing colors? Seriously?

  61. onionsack says:

    Jeff,

    Oh only if you were right about “they must have done something to get a life time ban”.

    I can give you several examples of people that were grabbed and accused of conduct they did not do, were taken downstairs and not allowed to see or read the charges against them.

    You realize ESC has lawyers that respond to all these stadium charges in court right? The problem is the NJSEA routinley makes up charges and it becomes our word against yours. When they ask for one of the ESC lawyers to come down during the issuance of the bann they are denied that opportunity. Why? because they dont want anyone credible present to dispute their story.

    Jeff i know you mean well and assume they just enforce the rules, but i have been experiancing this conduct for several years and i know better.

    We have had former yellow shirts sign up for ESc that have told us all the backroom stroies, i have heard with my own ears them calling latino’s spics and threatening people with violence for simply being in the section getting banners after the game.

    They are no angels bro. They came into Lot16 in a van after the game looking to take out some fans. FACT. I was there. The police that made them leave called their behavior extremely unprofessional.

    Those same guards were flipping off a woman with a camera to incite something.

    Jeff please dont think this is just a few “hools” venting about not being able to have a good time. This goes very deep and has been a 13 year battle.

  62. i hate the njsea says:

    link to youtube.com

    watch this…

  63. MasterShake says:

    alright guys here it is.

    watch this video first

    link to youtube.com

    pay attention to the guy at :30 screaming “calm down!!!”

    now watch this and watch the same guy who was trying to diffuse the situation being taken away.

    link to youtube.com

  64. EdTheRed says:

    @A.S.: the problems at Giants Stadium and the incident in Columbus are both the result of poorly trained, poorly managed security. If security at the Meadowlands behaves in a violent, unprofessional, intentionally provocative manner (such as heading en masse to the supporters’ tailgate following the match to yell at and flick off said supporters), that unprofessional behavior deserves to be roundly and publicly criticized.

    If security in Columbus is so concerned with confiscating streamers that they fail to pay attention when 30 or so visiting fans make their way into the home supporters’ section, that’s unprofessional behavior and deserves to be criticized.

    Pointing to a bunch of thugs with a track record of violence that pre-dates MLS (google “Adam Katz” for starters) and saying that they are too heavy-handed isn’t “unseemly” just because a bunch of poorly-trained yellow-shirts 500 miles away let things get out of control.

  65. Tim F. says:

    Ives,

    In your “My Toronto FC story” earlier this year, there’s a key line which is:

    “watching police and security taking the unrolled portions of the streamers and throwing them back to the crowd made me realize just how different BMO Field is than anywhere else in the league.” While there can be issues with streamers interfering with play, I agree that despite Red Bull efforts, the game-day experience at Giants Stadium provided by NJSEA can be hostile to soccer fans.

    Over a decade of NJSEA has taken the life out of a good part of New York area’s soccer fan base that stretches from Connecticut to Pennsylvania. The flame is not dead yet with several strong supporters groups trying to help make it work in the “interim”; hopefully when the state of the art Harrison stadium is ready to receive fans and when NJSEA is out of the picture, the Red Bull front office will be able to also support the local fan bases’ efforts to create a fun (but safe) soccer experience.

    We all know that there’s a little hyperbole in the Toronto FC article that “not only would that not happen” in New York “, if you tossed a streamer at a player at Giants Stadium you would get tackled by two state troopers as a state police dog mauled your leg.” but the fact that the reality is fairly close to that description is scary enough.

    It’s easier to start from a blank slate like Toronto has rather than to deal with the decade plus of soccer deterrence in New York and the most customer hostile approach to running a business that I’ve ever seen. It’s hard to overestimate the negative impact that NJSEA has had on the MLS franchise in the “tri-state” area. It will eventually be overcome but it may take awhile. I think Red Bull will do everything in its power to help the current core supporters and to attract back those that have been deterred by the NJSEA. For instance, they could start by just not allowing anything that was unsafe into the stadium and otherwise being lenient and “letting it go…”

  66. Connor B says:

    What is missing here is the severity of NJSEA’s abuse of the rules. If you take a picture of them on a camera or phone they have and will take it, throw it on the ground, and stomp on it. They say it dropped and its your problem. They beat up latinos for being latinos. At the Gold Cup I have seen security maul people throwing their hands in the air screaming for help, because they are latino!

    If they drag you downstairs they will make up false charges, my friend was charged for lighting smoke bombs when we never had them or lighters or anything! They will push you around and deny you your rights or a chance to speak to your lawyer and it happens all the time.

    Ives I love the article but FOLLOW IT UP with stories on the REAL abuse this guys are allowed to get away with all the time! This does not even scratch the surface!

    p.s. the Sassano and Goldthwaithe jersey’s were give aways from the players to our two most hardcore fans, so know what you are talking about before you start ripping on people Joe K

  67. fred says:

    ****You’d be pissed too if you had to work on a Saturday night, have no date and made $11.50 an hour.****

  68. Bootsy says:

    TCompton: the railing “solution” was complete idiocy. I mean, someone was down to one synapse on that one. I dunno how many of the incrusions into the Nest it’s stopped. I do know, though, of people that have been hurt by the railing when they ran into it, walked into it, fell into it, got pushed into it, etc. That appears to have died down as people have become aware of its existence; but the fact that people have stopped getting their nuts crushed by it doesn’t make it any less stupid.

    As far as thuggery from Giants Stadium security is concerned, it’s not confined to soccer games. IIRC, the Village Voice did a long article on some of the stuff the security at the Meadowlands has done, several years back. Of course, in response to complaints about assaults from security personnel at Giants Stadium, Ivan Gazidis said that no problem exists; and he can’t be lying, can he?

  69. mikeK says:

    JH- I’m not saying that it’s right to verbally abuse a little girl for wearing opposing colors, but it happens. It happens in every sport, among all fan bases, and you’re naive if you think it’s not going to happen at a soccer match. It’s not excusable, but it happens. Accept it, and if you think it’s wrong go on a crusade against all sports fans, not just soccer fans.

    The only reason this is happening to us is because we don’t demand heads when it happens.

    That man who flipped off the woman practicing her rights needs to be fired. We must get him fired. It’s absolutely inexcusable for him, an employee of the state of new jersey, to do that. Give him the lifetime ban, not Binks.

  70. Mark says:

    I have a season ticket and sit behind Binkley in 109. Never knew who he was until now, but he’s not completely innocent in this. But I don’t think he deserved to be banned or tossed either.

    He yelled “score you piece of sh*t” early in the 2nd half. The woman next to him has young kids and asked him to watch the language. He bluntly told her that he didn’t care. They argued which led to her saying she’d get security, he said go ahead and get them. I think the woman over-reacted, but Binkley escalated things when it would have saved him a lot of trouble to ignore her as know one else in the area had any problems with his comments.

    To me, I don’t see the big deal with profantiy in general, but as a parent myself with young kids, I wouldn’t want the guy next to me yelling profanity if my kids had been there. So I can see the woman’s point, but that’s the only comment I recall him making that was profane, so why not let it slide considering her kids hear section 101 yell the you suck @sshole chant to Cronin about 20 times at that point.

    He did seem confident that he had been fan of the year and a season ticket holder and there was no way they’d toss him. But I’ve read enough stories on these boards and others to know that wasn’t going to work out as he planned.

    As I said, I don’t know the guy, so I’ve got no reason to make any of this up. I hope the guy gets his ban repealed as he’s a passionate fan from the couple times I’ve seen him at games.

  71. Connor B says:

    Jeff you said where there is smoke there is fire. I swear to you that my best friend was ejected without knowing what he did. He left without any fight and when we got downstairs to see him he was in a holding cell just minutes after calling his parents, he was 18, and went to criminal court. He was accused of lighting smoke bombs. We never had any at all! He is BANNED FOR LIFE!

  72. RK says:

    What is tifo?

  73. sublicon says:

    Ives, we love you. Power of the press, baby.

  74. brett says:

    parents talking about how they wouldnt want to sit next to a guy who’s cussing… its the way life is, especially in a big city… i can guarentee that the kids hear just as bad of words from school, socializing, at home, on tv, in movies… honestly cussing is not as taboo as it once was… anyone who thinks they can shield their kid from it is bonkers….

    getting the guy a lifetime ban is farce… parents should realize that if they go to a sporting event, ANY SPORTING event, they will run into fans who tend to cuss…. if directed towards a kid, then i dont blame the parent, but many many people are pointing out that it was directed towards the player..

  75. Connor B says:

    Jeff and other non-ESC members,

    To just further prove how they make up stories about this stuff is this kid Danny wanted to walk downstairs with the guys that drove him to the game. He was not involved at all and asked, “hey can i walk down with these guys they are my ride” security was like yea whatever. While he was downstairs they wrote him a lifetime ban, JUST BECAUSE HE WAS THERE. He is now banned from all future games this year, which lets not kid ourselves is this year and most likely all of next year as well.

  76. brentmcd says:

    as an outsider to the situation here, i see two issues which mirror my own experiences in robertson and the home depot center:

    1. soccer moms and dads with kids coming to a game expecting a nice, tame atmosphere are shocked by enthusiastic supporters and a few choice expletives directed towards players. solution: sell tickets in sections labeled as “family-friendly” or “hardcore supporters” etc. allow people to change seat sections (within reason). naive parents wake up and realize this is a legitimate sport stirring passionate fans.

    2. overzealous security guards with free reign to harass and physically abuse legitimate club supporters. everyone is familiar with the typical wannabe-thug, former-jarhead, football-jock, roid-rage bouncer stereotype. solution: dialogue between supporters groups and security (not on match days). proactive engagement and investigation by the club and sports authority (stadium owner / operator). use of video to identify and punish gross abusers (both fans and security).

    my two pesos from the left coast. good luck!

  77. brett says:

    RK-”Tifo, originally a short form for the Italian word tifosi, meaning supporters, is mostly used as a name for any spectacular choreography displayed by supporters on the terraces of an arena or stadium in connection with a sport event, mostly an association football match.”

    “sheets of plastic or paper forming a pattern, like a sort of mosaic

    large flags and banners

    huge painted blankets

    two-pin flags

    confetti

    balloons

    paper rolls

    flares (bengal fires) and other fireworks

    large dolls and mascots

    scarves ”

  78. RK says:

    And I expected it to be an acronym…thanks.

  79. swansuite says:

    Three words: Kick Their Asses

    These are not court appointed policemen, nor do they have any authority whatsoever. They cannot, by law, even touch you. How many fans in the clubs seats?

    Kick Their Asses–they won’t be back.

  80. swansuite says:

    Totally kidding, btw. It just seemed appropriate to make that comment considering some of the comments.

    Not kidding, however, about private security–they have no authority whatsoever in these matters, beyond ASKING you to leave. In order to remove you, they MUST have a policeman present or you can present them with a lawsuit. Check the law.

  81. guillemo says:

    I hope this is not a problem next year when 7-8 thousdand people pack the new stadium.

    Just kidding, that is absolutely ridiculous behavior from security. Hopefully some of these wannabees will lose their jobs.

  82. Train says:

    This is just another sad example of how the US is getting worse and worse every year. It’s like my boy Todd says, “The day I can’t curse at a sporting event is the day the communists have won.”

  83. bgnewf says:

    Ives, it seems that this type of crap is not limited to the new Jersey swamp. Many stadia throughout the league have all reportedly had recent issues where stadium security was either over-zealous, or so poorly trained and briefed on what to expect that it could not lead to anything else but what has gone down in New York and elsewhere (Columbus on the weekend, Chivas/Houston, etc.).

    Commissioner Garber and the front offices of EACH TEAM in MLS needs to ensure that there is some sort of consistent MLS pocedure in place that helps these security staffers understand that Soccer is a different sport with a different fan base than what they may be used to. It is not baseball or basketball, it is entirely something completely different. Part of this policy must include regular formalized liason with suporters groups who can be an asset to security, and that can keep fans under control rather than be some sort of impediment, which is often how supporters groups are looked upon as.

  84. brett says:

    TRAIN- lol, i like that saying :D

  85. Aguinaga says:

    Thank you Ives, for giving this matter the further attention it deserves. I can only hope your story sparks others and ignites a fireball of condemnation, though I doubt it will be a fastly moving one. As already said, it’s been going on and been complained about for years, with no end to the madness. It seemed apparent in person that that was the closest this league has ever come to a full on soccer riot, which of course, then the main stream would’ve gladly picked up on in full force. So sad… What we’re up against is bigger than the NJSEA. It’s the ignorance and fear that we, passionate soccer supporters in all shapes, sizes, and colors, incur for simply loving and celebrating in our own way what many in this country still feel is an anomaly of a sport, and an unwelcomed alien one at that. It was clear as rain that day that after all this time, this abuse has finally come to a boiling point. The next time security at Giants Stadium does this, at worse in a visible game like vs LA, my gut and my deepest fear is that there will be severe repurcussions for ALL parties involved, the likes of which this league & this country have NEVER seen.

  86. chg says:

    MikeK, MV, et al- believe it or not there is give and take between guests and home fans that doesn’t descend into assault.

    I’d expect to take heat in a Red Sox jersey in NY (or vice versa), but it’s because I have a low opinion of a large segment of each club’s fan base. Too many of them believe the way to prove you’re Superfan #1 is to be the biggest jackass in the stadium to anyone with the temerity to cheer for the other team.

    The inconsistency relative to NFL games bugs me, but I don’t have a problem with the guy being tossed for directing an f bomb at another fan, though a lifetime ban is extreme. Based on second hand reports (and comments like Mike’s), most pro games in the NE need to be better policed. A few cities are on the verge of descending into thuggery behind the excuse “He was asking for it. He pulled for the visiting team.”

    You don’t sit in the other team’s section and act like That Guy without expecting problems; but if all you’re doing is cheering for the action on the field, you should be able to cheer for either team without fear of verbal or physical intimidation. I’d take the passion of an SEC game over the NFL any day, and (with possibly one exception) none of those stadiums have the aura of thuggery you espouse.

    That said, it sounds like the Giant Stadium security has a few goons that like to bust heads at the drop of a hat. They probably get along great with Giants football fans.

  87. brett says:

    damn canucks!

  88. HomeyBoehme says:

    Guys, when it comes to the Binks removal and ban, who knows what the woman said to security to get Binks kicked out? She could have told security that he was threatening her kids, swore at her kids, was drunk, was peeing on her, or whatever. So yeah, we can be mad at security, but who knows what story they got from the mom Binks was arguing with.

    @Train – substitute “communists” with “terrorists”. :-) Ah hell, both work just as well!

  89. chg says:

    Mark, it also would have helped Brinkley if he’d said “sorry about that” and watched his mouth after the lady mentioned her kids. I hope he was forcibly removed.

    ‘It’s ok for me to act like a jackass because this city is filled with them’ shouldn’t be an acceptable excuse for boorishness.

  90. Train says:

    This BanBinks guy reminds me of my old buddy… Robert Boswell.

    Point being…. none of this is shocking. Telling a person not to curse is restricting free speech. How bout the parent teaching their child not to repeat said thing because it’s “bad?” Oh I forgot. That would take parenting skills.

  91. Scott A says:

    Thanks for writing about this Ives. It all comes down to classless people (much of the NJSEA security) being given power and enjoying the abuse. Red Bull Park can’t come soon enough

  92. brett says:

    Chg- and yet you see reason for a guy to be forced to censor himself, especially when none of it is directed at the other person?? where do we draw the line?? next we cant use words in chants as they may be implied inappropriately, perhaps we should just hum it??

    you cannot expect some clean family sporting event, this isnt rec soccer anymore… i would understand if Binks directed a f-bomb toward the mother or child then her response would be acceptable, but no reports show otherwise…

    again, Cussing is no longer Taboo… you hear it on basic cable….

  93. Jeff says:

    I see that from a lot of commenters that there is a legitimate grip on the security issues. Can anyone tell me why? Are there a lot of trouble makers in the NY’s supporters club? I am at a loss as to why they would go to this trouble to make up all of these charges. As I said, I believe you guys when you recant these stories, but what is the background story? There has to be one. I find it hard to beleive that this is a case of a school-yard bully picking on the little guy (soccer fan). Can someone who has been there from the start tell me why they only do this at soccer games? Again…there has to be a reason. There had to be catalyst even if it was 5 or 10 years ago that started the bad blood.

  94. brett says:

    train- but a LARGE portion of parents dont want to take responsiblity for their childs actions so they blame other outlets… sporting events, TV, Movies, Music, Video games… i grew up in a house with a parent who cussed, i played violent video games, watch rated R movies as a child in single digits and i turned out perfectly fine…. its when the kid does something wrong, the parents look for some outside influence to pin it on, when they should look inside

  95. brett says:

    Jeff – take someone like Jim Rome who’s publicly pointed out he’s totally against soccer, and give him the chance to patrol a soccer game… 1 ill comment directed towards him and he’s taking full force… this happens in all aspects of life… some people are simply bad with handling power and controling their temper

  96. Ryan says:

    After going to the metrofan site and seeing what Binks said, I would expect him to be kicked out when he starts to throw the F-bomb to a woman as well as allegedly threaten them. Just because you are the “Fan of the Year” doesn’t give you the special right to be the “Jerk of the Day” whether that person is a season ticket holder or someone up to watch Beckham play.

  97. Jeff says:

    Brett…

    Couldn’t agree LESS. I am a season ticket holder for the Cincinnati Bengals. They have something called “The Jerk Line”. There is a phone number announced at the beginning of every game for people to call if they see, excessive drunkeness, foul language, etc. If you are reported, the security will come down and remove you. You can loose your season tickets if the offense is serious enough. I’ve seen it happen for somebody cussing at players when kids are around.

    I don’t agree with the rule, but I follow it. It really isn’t that hard to use PG-13 language instead of R.

    Foul language isn’t tolerated everywhere.

  98. BETO says:

    i’m with HomeyBoehme. “hence the yellow nazis’ chant. NJSEA are more fascists/terrorists than ‘communists’ unless by saying the communists win means that they were right all along and that we will become the next great fascist threat…

  99. RK says:

    You don’t think it is wrong to curse in front of children? Seriously?

  100. joe k says:

    connor b:

    all i said was that they were true fans for sure — i mean, getting jerseys of role players like sassano and goldthwaite is not generally something you do unless you already have the altidore, angel, richards, reyna, parke, van den berg, stammler, and conway (not to mention the dozens of players from years past).

    i wasn’t ripping on anyone, you fool. take your victim mentality and shove it.

    and for the record, i don’t mean to insult sassano — he’s like a poor man’s joe vide. goldwthaite, on the other hand, makes too many mistakes to be forgiven.

  101. joe k says:

    connor b:

    all i said was that they were true fans for sure — i mean, getting jerseys of role players like sassano and goldthwaite is not generally something you do unless you already have the altidore, angel, richards, reyna, parke, van den berg, stammler, and conway (not to mention the dozens of players from years past).

    i wasn’t ripping on anyone, you fool. take your victim mentality and shove it.

    and for the record, i don’t mean to insult sassano — he’s like a poor man’s joe vide. goldwthaite, on the other hand, makes too many mistakes to be forgiven.

  102. Ryan says:

    Brett

    >>you cannot expect some clean family sporting event, this isnt rec soccer anymore… i would understand if Binks directed a f-bomb toward the mother or child then her response would be acceptable, but no reports show otherwise…<<

    This is indeed what happened as per Binks himself. Here is what Binks posted on metrofanatic.com

    _______________________________

    I yelled something like, “Dude, what the hell are you doing? You suck!” as he was coming by us. (he refers to Beckham)

    The woman next to me said “Um, buddy there’s a kid here can you watch your profanity?”

    I turned, looked her and said “I am not going to watch my f_ _ _ing mouth because you brought your kid”

    Her husband started to say something and I cut him off and said you don’t came to sports events in the New York area and think that you’re going to avoid bad words.” (I think I threw the f-bomb in there somewhere but I don’t recall where in that statement.)

    ________________________________

  103. onionsack says:

    Its a culture clash by the sounds. The curse debate. For every person that thinks its unacceptable there is a person who sees it as no big deal.

    Solution is easy. Set aside one side as the family no booze side and the otehr has the more tolorant side…and put the rowdy ESC behind the goal.

    What people who have kids and are offended dont understand is that the people without them feel just as disrepected as you do that they have to act like a child themselves just because you are seneitve to words.

    They view your demand to control their speach as an afront just as you view their choice of words an afront.

    The best way to deal with this is to allow a family section for kids and stuff and parents and the other side of the stadium for childless fans and singles there to enjoy themselves without being told to hush their mouths every two seconds by an ultra sensitive parent.

  104. JPO says:

    In college I worked security for rock and roll shows at big stadiums. My experience was that sizable minority of people working security are not up to the task of handing the power that they are given. Behind the scenes, from what I saw, many were on a total power trip while others were flat out sick. Several people I worked with – not just one or two – really enjoyed hurting people if given the chance.

    On the street you’d call this a thug.

    At Giants Stadium, they are called “Security.”

    My observation, having been to several dozen Red Bull games, is that security at the stadium is indeed hostile toward the crowd. Some hooligan-wannabes are deserving of this, for sure, but I would wager to guess that the majority “security” problems are just that. “Security” problems.

  105. Connor B says:

    Jeff:

    It’s a lot like the Jim Rome comparison that Brett threw up there. Just these guys are true bigots! It seems like you seem to understand that latinos are obviously people like the rest of that, but there are people in this world that do not believe that, and a lot of them work with NJSEA. Honestly I would say most of it is racially driven. 99% of the people that get thrown out are latino, or “different” the kid who was crowd surfing has a huge mohawk and wears big black boots. If you aren’t the typical white boy there they hate you.

    Honestly it makes me soooooo angry to see it and to write it, but that is truly a huge (and IMO the biggest) reason for this power abuse.

  106. brett says:

    jeff- cussing is becoming less and less taboo every year…. simply look at tv to prove this… outside the F-bombs nearly every cuss word can be used on basic cable…

    while still not appropriate in settings like gradeschool (nor do i ever expect it to be appropriate) it is up to the parents to inform their kid that those words are not to be used in certain settings… i do not see a sporting event as one of those settings, and i would choose not to censor myself nor should i…. im not saying that fans should be directing these words at families and children, but to yell at a player and tell him he sucks does not spark a reason to get the guy thrown out… while other things may have been said, all things couldve been avoided if the mother simply told her kid that the word is inappropriate… i bet the kid didnt even notice… he/she was probably too inticed into the game to realize it…

  107. BanBinkley says:

    They only know how to curse in front of children because these are the same tough guys who need an army of security to visit someone elses stadium.

  108. brett says:

    RK – dont know if you are talking to me, but i’ve mentioned many times if its directed to towards the kid or even the mother, then yes i wouldnt have objected to being booted (for that game)…. but as ive also pointed out, kids will hear it every where they go… even on tv… its up to the parents to police their children

  109. brett says:

    Ryan – if that is in fact what he said then i wouldnt have an issue with him either being escorted to a different location or even out of the stadium (for that game)… a lifetime ban is rediculous

  110. David Berger says:

    Thanks Ives, hopefully this will all be sorted out soon.

  111. RK says:

    Just in general, really — but when you mentioned that they were offended by “sucks”…well…last time I checked that won’t even get bleeped in a newspaper :)

  112. MasterShake says:

    You can clearly see that “BanBinkley” is not here to discuss anything in an adult manner but is here to instigate, much like the NJSEA.

  113. Ron says:

    Been to a few Metrostars/Red Bull games since 96 and to a few Jets/Giants games also.

    Its okay for Jets/Giants fans to harass women, throw snowballs, urinate openly in the stands after getting drunk and security does nothing and actually laugh along. There’s a ton more cussing and obscene gesturing in a football game and security does NOTHING.

    Now when the Metrostars/Red Bulls play…you see their distaste of the soccer fans and the ethnic diversity of the fan base. I feel like security at Giants Stadium is always condescending to the average soccer fan, especially if they’re not lily white.

    It’s okay to be white and disgusting violent & nasty…that’s socially okay acceptable for a Jets/Giants game, but God forbid if I curse out loud in Nepalese at a soccer match…I’d be banned for life!!

    One more thing…MLS and each stadium should allocate seating sections for visiting fans in the opposite corner or as far away as possible from the home supporter groups. Gate entry should be restricted to sections for where the tickets are slated as to prevent the sad situation witnessed between the Crew and West Ham.

    Don Garber and MLS, wake up!!!

  114. CPTKevin says:

    There must be clear cut rules that define acceptable public behavior and consequences for disobeying those rules. Kinda like my parents had when I was growin’ up… “as long as you live under my roof you’ll follow my rules!” I have no problem with rules as long as they are enforced the same way all the time. The problem seems to be the arbitrary enforcement of some “unknown, unpublished” rules by people ill trained in their duties of security and crowd control.

  115. William the Terror says:

    I assume that the stadium “security” personnel are the rather bloated looking gentlemen congregated in the center of the picture?? What color is that they are wearing?? Peach?? Tangerine?? Whatever, it doesn’t exactly inspire a lot of confidence in me as to their law enforcement credentials (frankly, I am more willing to believe the credibility of the cop from the “Village People).

    My suggestion for the next time this situation arises is as follows: several of the RBNY fans should bring large boxes of Krispy Kreme donuts to the stadium with them. Then, when the security forces all congregate in one location to harrass the fans, open the donut cartons and flip the donuts into the air in the general vicinity of the security officers. The cops will be so mesmerized by the flying donuts that the fans will be able to administer a much needed ass-kicking.

  116. cashes says:

    This is one of the big reasons The Cauldron is glad to be out of arrowhead. At CAB the wizards organization was able to pick their own security and the fan experience has improved drastically.

    It has been mentioned a few times already, but race played a huge part in who the arrowhead security would focus on. I have a picture of 10 security gaurds surrounding 14 argentinian fans while the fans are dancing and drumming outside the stadium. They stood their for 15 minutes with arms folded.

    We would also experience events similar top what happened in Columbus, in that security would be tackling fans for standing on seats, while ignoring opposing fans coming into the section to taunt. It wouldn’t be until the oppossing fans did something like smoke a cigeratte that we were able to get security to remove them.

  117. Freddy says:

    So wash the kiddies’ mouth out with soap after the game if they repeat said “bad words.” Sheesh!

  118. MasterShake says:

    Binkley may or may not have been at fault and I wont defend him, but the problem is whether he was or was not at fault he received a LIFETIME BAN for cursing. The punishment surely doesn’t reflect the crime, they could’ve simply moved him to another section or at the worst kicked him out of the stadium for the remainder of the game. But I a LIFETIME BAN was not warranted for simply cursing.

    Also we do not know what the woman that called security on him told the security guards.

  119. Mike says:

    I was at the game on Saturday but not in Section 101 for the Royal Rumble. The fact of the matter is that the NJSEA security sucks and takes advantage of soccer fans. You would never see them mess with rowdy Jets or Giants fans without state police backing them up because they know football fans are “tough” and “drunk” and will fight back. They dont view soccer or soccer fans in the same light and feel its the perfect opportunity to take advantage of their shirt and badge and try and become power players and throw their weight around. I cant wait until the Red Bulls get out of that hell hole. The only problem is we’ll still have to put up with these sorry asses for the big international games (Barcelona, USNT, etc). Like someone else mentioned, a lot of these security guards are wannabe police. Police know how to handle a situation, these morons do not.

    I also read another post stating people shouldnt wear the away team’s jerseys to home games. I think thats stupid and utter crap. I live in NJ and support the Red Bulls but im also a HUGE Galaxy fan. I was actually rooting for both teams that night, cheering both sides, etc. People have a right to support who they please, home or away. But, at the same time, they should also beware and fully accept the heckling that comes with it.

    I think Red Bulls front office need to take this matter up ASAP as they still have another half of the 2008 season to go. And who knows when Red Bull park will be open so we may be looking at half of 2009 back at Giants Stadium. They simply cant just wait to move into the new venue. Take care of the problem now before you lose your most passionate fans for ever.

    I love the idea of setting up home and away sections as well as “family friendly/kid zone” areas. These areas can be zero tolerance areas and keep families and children away from cursing, chants, etc.

    Just my .02

  120. Train says:

    I think it’s wrong to over protect children. Period.

  121. HomeyBoehme says:

    “Its a culture clash by the sounds. The curse debate. For every person that thinks its unacceptable there is a person who sees it as no big deal.

    Solution is easy. Set aside one side as the family no booze side and the otehr has the more tolorant side…and put the rowdy ESC behind the goal.

    What people who have kids and are offended dont understand is that the people without them feel just as disrepected as you do that they have to act like a child themselves just because you are seneitve to words.

    They view your demand to control their speach as an afront just as you view their choice of words an afront.

    The best way to deal with this is to allow a family section for kids and stuff and parents and the other side of the stadium for childless fans and singles there to enjoy themselves without being told to hush their mouths every two seconds by an ultra sensitive parent.

    Posted by:onionsack | July 21, 2008 at 04:33 PM”

    Onionsack,

    Thank you. I quoted in full because it is so spot on and summed up so many of my feelings on the cursing issue.

    That said, I don’t like the idea of separate seating. Why is it that when people have different viewpoints, we immediately come to the conclusion that we should put them in different areas?

  122. yankiboy says:

    These issues trascend if what club you suuport.

    I am very sorry to hear that the security problem is apparently a recurring one. Even when CSC isn’t involved.

    For DC United, having the Metropolitan Police work over in the Barra Brava/Screaming Eagles section actually improved the situation. Even though I don’t have any interest to hang in the section anymore. CSC and the security in the section was not a good mix. That is just my personal opinion.

    I still find it confusing how we turned into a country where profanity around kids and women is acceptable. And that somehow, it should be expected at sporting events.

    I have no problem “sheltering” my daughter. Guilty as charged, I don’t swear around her and I don’t expose her to profanity. Not in music or tv or anyplace else. I just don’t think that it is appropriate.

    I have respectfully (key word) asked people to please consider the lanuguage. You can do things respectfully. That is not censorship. It is not an infringement of someone’s first amendment right; it’s a request. Just like I have done when people start to use racial language. To me, it’s no different.

    The argument that abuse is to be expected because someone is wearing a different jersey at your “home” stadium–I don’t buy that. Someplaces have terrible reputations but that doesn’t excuse the thuggish, bully behavior.

    Let me be clear, I don’t know Binkley and am not referring to him as a thug. I’m not even referring to ESC as “thugs” (even though like any supporters group, there are members that I don’t care for because of their poor behavior–but the same can be said for some of the United supporters–so it is unfortunately a recurring theme).

    I’m only making general comments based on some of the exchange of opinions/ideas here.

    I wasn’t there.

    I actually like getting along when I go to a game. I like showing basic hospitality and meeting fans in another location, I mean, we all love the sport, right? I don’t get the dark side of the tribalism and I don’t want to get it. I don’t need that sort of “passion” in my life. LOVE sports. Don’t like the lack of civility. That doesn’t mean that I don’t like to goof some of the other teams’ players or get on the officials. Sometimes some light-hearted exchange with the opposing supporters. Anything more, I’m not interested.

    It is completely unacceptable for professional security personnel to use racial epiteths and look to start fights with fans. It is stupid, boorish behaviour and terrible business. And if guys are looking to fight with soccer fans because they are an easier target than NFL or MLB or other fans (and I have no trouble beleiving that is taking place in some ceircumstances)–well that is nothing more than “bullying”. Crowd management is supposed to be about “managing”. great to hear the State Troopers showed class and professionalism.

    As more franchises get their own stadia, it will be curious to see if the security issues improve or not. I think that it will be one piece of the puzzle. As will be better screening of staff and management communicating to the security staff they must use some “emotional intelligence” in how they handle situations with their paying customers. I find it really disappointing that some nightclub bouncers can manage situations more professionally that some sporting even security staff. You would think that it would be the other way around…

  123. Dave says:

    Bunch of meathead security guards looking to utilize their martial arts training. Buffoons they are.

  124. chupacabra says:

    I agree with your comments for the most part, MasterShake. The punishment is certainly severe, but Binkley surely had to be aware that he could have been ejected or jailed for swearing. A few minutes prior to the beginning of every Red Bulls game an announcement is made about how the use of profanity directed at players, officials, etc. will not be tolerated and will result in ejection from the match plus possible penalties, fines, etc. No mention of any lifetime ban, although I do think some sort of ban is mentioned. Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.

  125. Chief Toro says:

    It is hard to ignore the “negative karma” that has been built up over the years between ESC and the NJSEA staff. Honestly, I thought ESC was on the right track, with the seeming exponential growth in numbers this season and no reports of any “incidents,” until this one.

    As part of the leadership of RagingBullNation, a family-oriented RBNY supporters club, I can empathize with both sides. Thomas Binkley is actually a good friend of mine, and I respect his passion for the game and the team very much. He is certainly deserving of his 2006 accolades [even though I drive 3 hours further than he does ;-)]. I also respect him as a person. However, I also know that he is capable of “pushing the envelope” at times.

    I am not the accuser or the defender of any implicit arguments here. What I am confident in acknowledging is that there is mutual lack of respect between some members of ESC and the NJSEA staff. Why, how, or when, is not of importance here, in my opinion. You have to “break bread” at some point, putting all past incidents aside and starting with a “clean slate.”

    Until mutual respect is established, the “road to peace” will be challenging. With approximately only another year before we occupy Red Bull Park, that should not be an excuse for “writing off” this season. You can bet that even in Red Bull Park, there will be a “special eye” towards the consolidated supporters section. This will include ALL RBNY supporters clubs (i.e., ESC, Kearny Army, and RagingBullNation, and any others that exist or come onto the scene between now and then). I believe we will all have a responsibility to respectfully represent ourselves and RBNY.

    The supporters clubs have EVERYTHING to do with the electric atmosphere at Red Bull games. The last match with LA is no exception. In fact, “The RBN Corral” (Section 115) was packed, and we had to shift our seats and drums around so that children and first-time game goers could see. RBN is especially attentive to these folks (as frustrating as it might be sometimes – season-ticket holders acquiescing to the demands of one-game-goers), becuase we realize that if they do not have a positive experience the first time around, what is the likelihood they will return? We look out for our club’s interests, with an eye for the “bigger picture,” I guess.

    ESC is the original supporters club of the “RedMetroBullStars” since soccer was reborn in the Tri-State area under the MLS umbrella in 1995/1996, supporters clubs that come after them admire their passion and fervor. In some respects, we should try to mimic their passion. Unfortunately, in the heat of a match, sometimes we deviate from good decision-making and fail to “pick our battles.”

    I am very diasppointed in the outcome of this altercation, and I will seek feedback directly from those involved. Before closing, I want to emphasize to ALL PROSPECTIVE AND CURRENT MLS TEAM SUPPORTERS that this is the EXCEPTION and NOT the rule. Current MLS team supporters know this. We are not Europe, nor would I hope that American soccer fans would ever be stereotyped as “hooligans.”

    We as RBNY fans can impact our own future with positive actions in the present. Again, there needs to be mutual respect. I hope we can move beyond this historical perspective and begin to write a new story about fan support in our OWN NEW HOME, Red Bull Park!!!!

    Yours in the Raging Bull,

    Chief Toro (aka Marc Bernarducci)

  126. Eugene says:

    @Ryan

    While I agree with you that families should not be abused in anyway by rowdy fans or diehards (who usually make soccer games fun and a true soccer experience), I have to point out that coming into the home stadium of a team wearing a jersey for the opposing team is insulting. Perhaps fans should be separated into home supporters, visiting team supporters and neutrals so that people supporting the visiting team are not aggravating people supporting the home team and vice versa.

    I’m a much more casual supporter of NY than the guys in 101, but I have to admit I also got insulted by seeing people walking around NY in LA Galaxy Beckham jerseys.

  127. Eugene says:

    In regards to Binkley, if the guy didn’t know better than to curse in front of kids and insisted on his right to do so after being asked to stop, I have no empathy. The guy deserved to be booted out. Who really cares how long he’s been coming or how far he’s coming from — when fans come to see a game, they have the right to watch it in a peaceful, safe environment and shouldn’t have to worry about the guy next to them not seeing the need to adjust his behavior.

    I’ve gone to plenty of games and I’ve cursed as well, but I try not to curse in front of families and I would certainly respect a mother who asked me not to curse in front of her kids. Why? Because I prefer those kids coming to games and getting inspired by the sport more than I insist on my right to use certain words to express my emotions.

  128. Scott A says:

    I just want to say…great discussion guys

  129. A.S. says:

    If Ryan @4:32 is accurate, I’m glad he got thrown out.

  130. Matt says:

    One interesting aspect of this that I don’t think anyone has commented on is the fact that this kind of thing is the inevitable result of MLS making a single player bigger than the league itself. Most of the people there on Saturday were not there to see soccer, but rather to see Beckham. Insert into this situation a dedicated group of fans who have followed this club through tick and thin and who are there week in, week out and you have a recipe for some conflict.

  131. Mike says:

    I still dont understand the tought that fans wearing the away teams jersey in some kind of disrespect to the home team or the home team’s fans. To me, the empty seats that these “away fans” are occupying are more of a slap in the face to the home team.

    It is not uncommon when the Yankees and Red Sox come to town that a lot of MLB teams will have more Yankees and Red Sox fans than their own team’s fans. I went to a Packers vs. Bills game in Buffalo, NY and at least 40% of the crowd was pro Packers. It’s the same thing when the Lakers come to the IZOD or the Garden. There are some teams that are bigger than the league and have a huge national fanbase. The LA Galaxy are that team for the MLS. I think as long as there are butts in the seats it doesnt matter who you’re a fan of or what team jersey you’re wearing.

  132. Sergio says:

    Alot of people dont realize that there wasnt an act of hooliganism in anyway. No one is doing anything wrong aprt form getting a little “rowdy”. What people fail to realize is that the NJSEA isnt a normal security force. THey escalate and force the situation where it doesnt need escalating.

    To assume Binks’ did something worthy of expulsion for life would be WRONG because youre not talking about reasonable security here. Its an abuse of power. I dont think ANY word can be said to warrant an expulsion for life. Should he have been thrown out? Maybe who knows, but expulsion for life? For an F-bomb? please!

    You also must note that this DIDNT happen in the supporters section it happened in a “normal” section. Which means it could happen to anyone showing alittle “passion”. It is not a SUPPORTERS CLUB vs NJSEA but FANS vs NJSEA. THis problem isnt solely an ESC problem but for any fan who would like get alittle “crazy” at the game.

    It deters first time soccer fans who are used to a particular experience to get expelled for no other reason than chanting standing or waving a flag.

  133. Scott A says:

    I like the idea of the family seats onionbag. At least presented as an option like the option of being with the home or visiting support. It doesn’t have to be anything fancy. If a parent is that concerned, they’ll have the option. And no one who is possibly going to offend a little kid is going to choose that option.

  134. Scott A says:

    Gonna add my voice to the chorus in case there is any doubt: I have personally witnessed Giants Stadium security being out of control

  135. MasterShake says:

    Mike when I wander into notoriously dangerous neighborhoods in NYC or Brooklyn, I know not to wear anything or say anything that might put me in danger. Sure not everyone in a bad neighborhood is out to get me, but I play it safe and don’t complain. If I know of a bad street I go around and don’t cause any commotion. I feel that is the same case here. I don’t have a problem if you cheer for LA Galaxy, but this is our house and as a supporter I am passive, I stand I sing I jump but I wont pick a fight with rival supporters simply because they are the same as me on a supporter level. However there are much more intense supporters than me. What I am saying is, you can wear a rival team jersey but you need to expect to get hassled in a hostile environment, some people understand this. During the chicago fire game there were a few Fire fans standing right next to us as we marched out, we sang a song for them they smiled and that was the extend of it.

  136. NJ Guy No Longer Stuck in DC says:

    Security at Giants Stadium for soccer games has been a problem for as long as the stadium has existed. The only time I remember it not being a problem was for the World Cup – and the State Police were dominant. Anyone who has never attended a game there needs to understand this. Fix it for the new stadium.

    That said, Bravo Yankiboy! I couldn’t agree more. The attitude that you paid your money and are a diehard fan so you can do/say whatever you want is infantile. There are some sports venues where this is prevalent. I just never go back (anyone who ever went to an Eagles game at the Vet would understand this). If everyone needs to be an ultra to go to a match then MLS should stop expanding now.

    If “Binks” really said what another poster cut and pasted from metrofanatic, he asked for it. He gave the other people two choices, report him to security or knock the snot out of him.

    Things obviously need to be fixed for the new stadium. There are some great suggestions about what to do to fix the security situation and to work with the supporters groups. I don’t necessarily think there need to be family sections but there do need to be supporters’ only sections.

  137. Seth says:

    I happen to work in the law enforcement field (yes the REAL police), so I would just like to share a few thoughts. I began attending Red Bulls matched in earnest last year, and just purchased season tickets for this year (I feel ripped off by the on-field product, but what can you do). I understand the NJSEA are in esseence just a bunch of rent a cops, but two incidents come to mind which left a really bad taste in my mouth.

    The first was when I stayed for a reserve match last year. All the remaining fans were moved into on small section, and it was a lot of fun to watch the match. Many of us got up to use the bathroom, including the women. My girlfriend had to use the bathroom, and we could not find an open ladies room. I located a security guard. He gave me a condescending, “What are you guys doing here,” attidude, and very curtly told her she would have to use a portable toilet outside the stadium in the parking lot.

    The second was during last years exciting Gold Cup match between Mexico and Honduras. Many of the fans rushed up front during the warm ups to take photos, etc. I was disgusted listening to comments like, “I know you do not speak english, etc…” The tasteless of the comments aside, couldn’t the NJSEA find some bilingual rent-a-cops to better serve it customers?

  138. chupacabra says:

    If a fan can get a lifetime ban for dropping an f-bomb at Giants Stadium, then can we get Steve Nicol banned too?

  139. Mike says:

    MasterShake, I agree 100%. I just get the feeling that some people (especially the hardcore Bulls fans) think it’s a sin to show up in Galaxy blue and Beckham jerseys for a Red Bulls home game and they should either a) show up in Red Bulls gear or b) not show up at all.

    I’ll tell you what I wish every Red Bull game would be like Saturday night (minus the bully patrol security) because that’s what soccer is all about. I wish every Red Bulls game had that same passion, buzz, excitement and attendance. I’ve been to to too many games at that stadium that feel like im in the dying minutes of an 8-0 blowout. It sucks going there to support your team and seeing everyone spread out and rows upon rows of empty seats. I love that Beckham is putting buts in seats and creating these types of enviroments that we as MLS fans have been craving for. Again, I agree that people who show up in the away jersey should be ready for a little bit of heckling which is great as long as it doesnt cross the line, especially when so many kids are present

  140. jloome says:

    Ives,

    If you have a few minutes for a possible follow, you should search the civil courts file and see how many times that particular security group has been sued in the last few years; might also check on complaint statistics with both local chamber and the police. Be interesting if the numbers held up the contention this is mainly aimed at soccer fans.

    You might also try running a few of the security officers names through your local newspaper databases (library, lexus/nexus, whatever) to see how many have convictions for assaults.

    Eek. Going into assignment mode, must slow down, go back to dusting pages….

  141. onionsack says:

    People are focusing too much on Binkley’s incident. It was one a several and probably the least disturbing act of NJSEA behavior.

    1. What about the 7 latino kids that were hauled off for no reason whatsoever?

    2. What about the NJSEA making up “improper behavior” charges to people that did nothing more than ask to go downstairs because one of the guys being hauled off for no reason was their ride only to get down their and be given a ban themsleves?

    3. What about the van load of NJSEA that drove into 16A after the game to try and instigate an altercation? Only to be told to leave by the NJ Troopers?

    4. What about the NJSEA in Lot16 flipping of women and trying to rev up the situation in direct conflict to what their suposed job duties are? An act the NJ Tropper called highly unprofessional conduct.

    5. What about the NJSEA guard that wildly stared pushing people around and elbowed some girl in the process and almost struck a 14 year old girl in the area that started the whole stuff you see on the video in the first place?

    What about all that stuff? No its just way more interesting to debate the merits of whether saying “f*ck” is wrong or not. Give me a break.

    What about the racist attitudes and comments made over the years to latino fans by NJSEA guards and ushers that leaves this bad taste in fans mouths.

    What about them purposfully escalating a routine incident into a near riot because they decided to start flexing their muscle instead of going about their business with the one fan they took for crowd surfing.

    This has nothing to do with Binks saying an f word this one time, it is a long pattern of abuse, lies, and mistreatment designed to start altercations that i have heard NJSEA guards and their supervisors glorifying. They laugh and talk about how they are gonna get someone…nevermind the fact they are there to ensure those things dont happen.

    Lets talk about that stuff for a bit instead of this lame curse word debate.

  142. Mike says:

    This topic has obviously created a firestorm of attention here on Ives so lets create this same firestorm and bring it right to the doorstep of the NJSEA. I’m not the most web savy person around but I’m sure someone reading this is. Let’s set up a website/petition and get a ton of people to sign it/post complaints about the NJSEA. When we get enough names, forward it to the Red Bulls, Meadowlands, local media, etc and hope for the best.

  143. Scott A says:

    Absolutely. I’d sign up to something like that Mike. And I like where your head’s at jloome

  144. Joey says:

    I blame New Jersey. Just in general. I blame New Jersey for so many things. Keep it real in your cool jean shorts, New Jersey guys. Red Bull fans deserve that kind of treatment wherever they go.

  145. Sinter says:

    I work at a day camp and have 9 year old kids drop the F bomb on a daily basis. Stop thinking kids are so pure and start blaming parents for just plain sucking. The same parents who complain probably have their kids teaching others profanity in school, let’s be real here.

    Ryan, I’m sorry but if you live in Chicago and consider yourself a fan of the team, you should be ashamed of yourself. While I get young teenage girls love Beckham, I take offense when teenage guys and older people show up in Becks jerseys to their 1 game of the season and half the crowd is cheering for LA when they tied the game. As a New Yorker, let alone a longtime Metro/Bulls supporter this bothers me.

    Regarding the events, I was right there 5 seats in on row 11, I saw everything. They pulled the original dude for crowd surfing, and maybe 1 or 2 others who actually attempted to start further action. Other than that they were randomly pulling out latino members of ESC during the halftime break and continually during the 2nd half. My brother who was coming back from getting water overheard a few of them discussing which people to pull out next and stating they should wait 10 minutes before doing so.

    These thugs throw racial slurs and target the latino members of ESC much more so than any caucasian members.

  146. William says:

    I can understand parents getting upset with a guy who is dropping the “f” bomb in front of their kid.

    What I don’t understand is getting banned for life over it.

  147. Bob says:

    This Binks guy is a liar. On the metrofanatics forum he claims all he said was that Beckham sucks. I guess he doesn’t have the guts to admit what he really said. He cursed at Beckham really loudly, and the mom asked him to watch his language b/c of her kids sitting next to him. This was not why she got security. It was because he then proceeded to tell her that he didn’t care, and that she should move if she didn’t like it. He then went on to ask her husband how much he bought the tickets on ebay for, and pull out his season tickets to proclaim that he was a true fan who went to all the games unlike these people who came to take their two kids to see Beckham. It was when her son started to cry that she went and got security. The RB fans next to me were even saying that if that guy spoke to their wife like that they would beat the crap out of him. I really think he deserved to be removed from the game, he was making everyone around him really uncomfortable with his behavior. I’m pretty sure if he had mumbled a half-hearted sorry for his profanity, or even ignored the lady’s request for him to watch his language, she would not have gotten security.

  148. JkR says:

    I believe the security folks have been behaving poorly, but i can’t abide members of supporters groups thinking that their long time support in some way entitles them to behave boorishly (dictionary: “Like a douche bag”).

    Regardless of why someone is attending a game, the people around deserve respect and civilian behavior. You can’t act like an idiot just because ‘other groups do it’ or ‘they do it overseas’ or ‘you’re kids should learn from my foul language, it’s good for them’.

    And you’re not a ‘better fan’ because you sit in a certain section frequently and attempt to create ‘atmosphere’.

    Most of the supporter’s groups are great, but some members seem to think THEY ARE the show.

    Hope it’s better in the new place…

  149. JkR says:

    Please accept my apology if supporters groups had nothing to do with any individual incident. There seems to be many mentioned here.

  150. Tim F. says:

    onionsack @ 6:45PM is summing up key issues so no need to repeat them here. NJSEA should be attempting to diffuse situations and give warnings whenever possible.

    One issue to add is that there are Giants stadium rules that should be changed for Red Bull Park because sometimes NJSEA is just enforcing these arcane rules that stiffle tifo and fan support for the Red Bulls.

    A few other thoughts…

    For those who don’t know Tom Binkley, he’s a great guy and passionate supporter of the club.

    In the section where we sit, we are trying to create an environment that is both passionate and where we try to watch our language. I’m not trying to overly shelter my kids — I still tell them how they should conduct themselves regardless of what they hear others say — but I’m trying to demonstrate that you can be a passionate fan and not swear; that said, I’m 100% behind ESC as a supporters group and realize they choose a different path.

  151. Tim F. says:

    M. at 7:52 and 7:54PM.

    The rest of your description is his account; he didn’t claim that all he said was that Beckham sucks… Binks is a good guy.

    Let’s move beyond this single issue and focus on all the issues that have been raised including the need to diffuse situations.

  152. Jack says:

    I can say that I was very surprised at the hostile and confrontational attitude of the security at the stadium when we travelled there last summer for an away game with about 300 supporters from Toronto. It seemed as though the security were almost itching for a confrontation from anyone so they could start throwing people out.

    I tried to be friendly with them as we are with our home stadium security and the response I received was a thinly veiled threat.

    I’m not surprised they treat the home fans this way and I’m sure they’re looking forward to getting into their own stadium.

  153. onionsack says:

    Scott,

    Yeah, i dont mean it to come off as a segregation issue, but i think every fan should have an available choice in the type of envirnment they sit in. Just as many types of fans dont want to sit next a bucnh of kids and tone it down, several people dont want to sit next to some drunken a-hole either.

    Truth is we need all these fans, so why not try to make certain sections of RBP accomidating for each set of fans. ESC does this for the supporters end, why shouldnt other fans that dont want to be next to that have a section free from some of the thingsthey are concerned about.

    As for the NJSEA situation, i foresee really bad things down the road if we cant get them removed from 101 and replaced with uniformed NJ police officers. I’d much rather have a figure that is bound by the law and trained to respond to crowds and someone people would trust more to be fair than a yellow goon how has a histroy of making up stroies in the ban room, making racial profiling actions, and who have no oversight for thier actions.

  154. martha in miami says:

    Wow Ives, way to stir the pot. In the Orange Bowl, may it rest in peace, and Joe Robbie we have police in full riot gear with german shepards, lining the field. Never a problem, with Colombia vs Brasil, Costa Rica vs El Salvador, 70K sell outs. However with ONLY Sec. at Fusion Opening Day 27k in Ft. Laud. they threw out Haitans, Jamaicans, then Hispanics, on a sliding scale of color/racism. They created *Afusionados* area standing only behind goals but the damage was done, never sold out again!

  155. martha in miami says:

    P.S. We were the 1st SSS of 25k max but they allowed standing room only, where I was. They ejected all around me, but not me, and I did nothing different but am Italian Irish. The Fusion to their credit did take immediate steps, and eventually played in Miami where it works! The fans jump, cheer, and beat drums for about 70 percent of Orange Bowl, and had areas seperated by rails/fences for family area, 30 percent. It was perfect, that way nobody gets hurt, physically or emotionally, lol.

  156. J says:

    wow I hate to quote a basketball player on a soccer blog but the great Charles Barkley once said “Im not a role model, parents should be role models.” I find it ridiculous that people are even complaining about foul language. As a parent, it is your responsibility to teach your kid right from wrong and if you feel certain language is wrong, you tell your kids. In the future, it is a good idea for a family friendly section, but for the time being, you teach your kids the difference between right and wrong.

  157. Jacob says:

    I can say that when I went to US-Argentina (the only time I’ve been to the Meadowlands since I live in Atlanta) my friend and I walked around the entire stadium looking for souvineirs (sp?) for our younger brothers. The 60% of the stadium labeled as “American Section” had very few security detail, the other 40% labeled as the “Argentine Section” was crawling with them. I don’t know exactly who did what, but I hope for soccer fans around the area that this gets taken care of swiftly and correctly.

  158. J.K says:

    “I know there is a long, complicate history between the security guards at Giants stadium and the ESC,” Red Bulls managing director Erik Stover said. “I think it’s unfortunate and its something that we’re going to fix when we move into the new building.

    ______________________________________

    They better fix it now before something tragic happens. People over at Metrofanatic were talking about how a full scale riot was narrowly avoided.

    That’s right, they are using the word riot.

    MLS can’t survive a riot. You better fix things and fast. They’re not going to get better by ignoring them and hoping we’ll hold back on our passion until RBP opens.

    Watch the videos Stover! Security had no reason to hang out in the section and get everybody’s blood boiling. They came up to get one supporter, then hung around to see who else they could get.

    The tape of the altercation in the parking lot was handled properly. The state trooper told security to keep away from the supporters.

    Stover is a fool if he says things can’t change, and should lose his job. I can’t say I’m looking forward to having him in charge as he tries to magically fix security issues when we move into Red Bull Park.

  159. El Guapo says:

    The sad and frustrating part about all this is that this one issue can be taken care of in a matter of weeks.

    The MLS…Majorly Lacking Sense

  160. El Guapo says:

    The sad and frustrating part about all this is that this one issue can be taken care of in a matter of weeks.

    The MLS…Majorly Lacking Sense

  161. John says:

    I find this whole discussion fascinating. My family sits in the supporter section and we know full well what we’re getting into. My wife and I talked about this at dinner tonight and decided that if our 14 year old is going to experiment with language, a soccer game is not a bad place to do it. I have no problem at all with cursing in front of kids at the games. In fact my daughter says somethings that we talk about later.

    While some of you choose to protect your kids, I can understand that if your kids are young. But sorry if they are over 10, I think you are naive, if you think your kids don’t know bad words.

  162. Kire says:

    I haven’t traveled to NY (from DC) but have generally heard bad things about security up there. I don’t know enough to say if there’s a problem w/ Red Bulls fans but clearly there’s a problem w/ security from all I can gather. Sucks for everyone, that’s sure no way to boost the mediocre attendance.

  163. Richard says:

    Bob @ 7:54

    Really? Binks denied what he did? Really? How do you expect people to believe YOU when YOU are the one telling lies from the get-go. I’m gonna say this out of 100% love of America – It is America’s fault that we are the 23th happiest nation in the world, why we are made fun of by the world, as most Americans are SO patriotic and think we are the best and *superstars* of this world. IT’S BECAUSE SOCCER IS NOT MAINSTREAM HERE! I don’t know how to explain it now, but in the future, you watch, you will be hearing something about this…and it’s gonna be from me.

    And Ives, is this the most comments ever on one story? I remember the columbus incident had quite a few but 164 comments is pretty good…

  164. JH says:

    The more I read the more I’m confounded by the opinion of those who seemingly have no regard for those parents who wish to keep their children a little sheltered from certain language. Don’t get me wrong, if the situation calls for it I’ve been known to let the expletives fly (Kramer), but if I were ever asked to tone down my language I’m not so selfish as to begrudge the person asking.

    Do we all have such a lack of a sufficient way to express ourselves that we can’t honor the request of a parent who wishes for their kid not to be exposed to certain language, for a matter of 90 minutes (+/-)? Are some of you people really that selfish?

  165. MasterShake says:

    This whole cursing thing is not the heart of this discussion, we can discuss parenting somewhere else. Whether Binks was at fault or not, I still dont think it was grounds for a LIFETIME BAN. Read that again LIFETIME, not a couple of games…is that really the right punishment for a couple of curses? even if they were not appropriate?

    How about NJSEA behaviour in the lot after the game, how about NJSEA throwing racial slurs at supporters, instigating fights, and recklessly raiding the section.

    This incident was not a 5 minute thing, it lasted ALL OF halftime AND a few minutes into the 2nd half. It was literally a punch away from a complete riot.

  166. John says:

    Are some of you people really that selfish?

    ________

    Who is being selfish in this discussion. You choose one way to raise your kids, I choose another. In your method, large numbers of grown adults and kids have to change their behavior to meet your requirements. On the other hand in my method, you have to learn a little flexibility and talk with your kids about how those words aren’t appropriate. Rather than simply saying, ‘we don’t say that’ you can have a rich discussion about values.

    Sorry to keep on about the language but this is my pet peeve of an issue.

    In terms of the other issue, I hope that someone does something about the security goons who get their thrills from beating and showing whose boss to non-Caucasians

  167. KubricksBird says:

    Last season, my boyfriend was detained by stadium security after exercising his First Amendment right of taking a picture of security mishandling an incident in 101. For most of the second half of the game he was held in the bowels of stadium. He kept asking if he had done anything illegal and they were not able to answer him. Finally, the supervisor of the holding area capitulated and said no, and they had to let him go. When we left the stadium at the end of the game, we spoke with a Red Bull rep who told us to write letters. We reported the incident to Red Bull as well as the NJSEA, but have yet to receive any form of response.

    Thank you for getting the word out and highlighting the plight of the fifth-class citizens of Giants Stadium.

  168. martha in miami says:

    I think we all can agree the dude should have said *Sorry to swear lady*, and had another beer! He was right about Becks, highly paid gorgeous underwear model he is, soccer player he isnt, lol! But the ban for life, how stupid! The real issue is that you need to go in with police force quickly, and get right back out with the ejected dude, like a covert CIA mission. You dont provoke by staying in the crowd, thats unacceptable, and MLS better wake up pronto due to this racist misuse of authority

  169. Allegre says:

    YES, the securtiy sucks at Giants stadium, but EVERYTHING else sucks as well. Concessions, escalators not operating, parking, you name it. My question is whether they can preclude the Galaxy game next year from taking place there. It would do justice for them to have it at Red Bull Park once it opens late in the season. Sure, not as many “soccer fans” could see the golden Beckham live, but it would go a long way toward selling season tickets for RBNY.

    PS. If that security guy in the picture still has a job……OH MY GOD!

  170. mikeK says:

    I saw the videos, and it’s a miracle no one took a swing at anyone in there. The NJSEA goons were totally surrounded, and if even 1 goon, or fan, [more likely goo] took a swing at someone, all hell would’ve broken lose, by the looks of it.

    They don’t know what they’re doing.

  171. J.K says:

    Exactly MikeK. MLS should be very worried.

    Unfortunately when situations like this have happened in the past, the FO talks to NJSEA and ESC (seperately), and they say that they have reached an understanding and everything will be fine for a few games.

    Then something will erupt again. History repeats itself.

    In hindsight, security should not have gone into 101 to pull out a crowd surfer. Yes it was against the rules, but no one was in harms way.

    Once 8-10 security guards force their way into the section, dozens of people are in harms way, and innocent people are abused and banned.

  172. Ed says:

    Same old story for years…..throwing fans out for no good reason. Happen to my crew in 2001 because confetti hit a NJSEA guy and somebody laughed. Half of that crew never came back for another game. And just like others….emails/letters never answered….

    Another great NJSEA story from last year. ESC was walking back to Lot 16 and the 1,000 or so TFC fans were walking towards us to get back to their lot. We tried to stay inside the stadium and walk with the stadium fence between the two groups to avoid any altercations but Security forced us out the nearest exit where both groups met up and I was amazed that a fight did not occur out of it.

    These people are not smart…….if they were, they would have scored higher on the Civil Service Exam and have become COPS like they wanted. Instead they get to play “Cops” one or two weekends a month.

  173. martha in miami says:

    I second that, you guys were impressively very well behaved…that would have been a nasty all out war here in Miami. p.s. Just kidding on the Becks, love that hes here in MLS, and hopefully other teams will pony up the cash for the Del Piero, Henry, Ronaldinho, Crespo, *s of the world!

  174. Connor B says:

    Everyone in the section was really well behaved because people love the team and the group and do not want to be banned for life. But now that some of our biggest leaders, the latino guys, got banned for nothing, people feel their time is short and really do not care if they will be banned with the coming of RBP. If Red Bull/NJSEA/MLS does not take care of this before the DC game the chances of an all out riot like nothing seen in MLS before are very high! Security hates ESC and ESC hates them for taking away their leaders and friends for TRYING TO CALM THINGS DOWN. Look at the videos thats all they did. I will be away for the next game but am kinda wishing I could be there because of the high chance of such a historic/tragic day for MLS.

  175. martha in miami says:

    NO ONE wants a historic/ tragic day in MLS! Thats why down here the Sec. goes to alert the police and then ONLY the police in riot gear go rapidly in and out of the crowd, with or without the dog. End of story, simple to enforce this as an immediate league wide standard. C*mon, the only historic day should be Becks and Landy vs JPA and Henry, Crespo or Del Piero in the final!

  176. Connor b says:

    Hey I dont want it to happen. I was saying though that it is likely and i am at every game and too miss the next one, with all the tension, plus its against dc too, is bad timing

  177. Joamiq says:

    Ives, thanks so much for giving this some attention.

  178. tilt215 says:

    I agree that the DC game will probably erupt like nothing the US has ever seen before. People are going to go tothe stadium looking for a fight. If you treat people like criminals long enough…

    People have wnated to soccer to grow in the country for a long time. Did any of you think we would be different from the rest of the world? There will always be violence with soccer.

    As for GS security…

    My friend, a girl who has never once been to a game before and certianly did nothing but stand and cheer, got a nice elbow in the face by one of the NJSEA goons on saturday. Do you think she will ever return for a game? I dont.

  179. martha in miami says:

    okay…phew! Dear JCO, JPA and co., Please continue to score some lovely goals, and beat DC so the crowd is filled with peace and happiness! Thanks in advance. Your top Miami Colombian/ Italian fan, Martika p.s. tranquillo, no pressure!

  180. martha in miami says:

    ooops thats tranquilo…im putting a call out for calm! People cant we all just get along? lol. Buena Suerte!

  181. RBNation says:

    This happened last year and no one said a thing except me. First off, ESC are good for the team but many are total assholes who use the match as an excuse to get wasted. Second, the Red Bull organization should have left tarps over the two sections between 101 so that no parents would be near that section. You can’t ask ESC to change their ways for 1 game and the Red Bull corporation should know that. It would have created a lot of less tension and problems. I couldn’t watch the game due to all the tussling and fighting going on in 101 and I’m two sections away. Last year, a stupid drunk Red Bull supporter (sorry, Metro) got into a fight on the bus back to Port Authority with a bunch of people in Beckham jerseys just because they didn’t “support” his team. He was more happy when the stadium was empty than full. When I proceeded to tell him he could jerk off by himself at the next game because only 8,000 fans would see him he had to show he was a “pure” soccer fan and started swinging at me. Now please understand, I’ve been to every sporting event under the sun and for the first time ever I got into fisticuffs at a soccer match due to a Metro supporter. He got a beat down right in Port Authority when the bus returned actually telling me to stop as I punched and kicked him until he was bloody(my adrenaline kicked in and he was pretty drunk). So for ESC fans, you ask for some of this. You want all the fervor, passion and pride that comes with the game yet you cannot stand the physical torment that comes with having to back up your drunk words. If you’re going to be drunk, or act all boastful and proud because you’re a “true” fan, then you deserve what you get when other fans decide to confront your physical aggression.

  182. brett says:

    lets all drop the notion that Del Piero would somehow end up in the MLS… while i would truely enjoy that, its not going to happen…. he’s even noted that he’s retiring with Juventus…

    as for the swearing, im glad to see that im not the only one who thinks that fans should not have to censor themselves at a sporting event….

    places to censor yourself: church, school functions, little league etc…

    places you shouldnt have to censor yourself: sporting events, concerts, bars etc..

  183. yankiboy says:

    wow I hate to quote a basketball player on a soccer blog but the great Charles Barkley once said “Im not a role model, parents should be role models.” I find it ridiculous that people are even complaining about foul language. As a parent, it is your responsibility to teach your kid right from wrong and if you feel certain language is wrong, you tell your kids. In the future, it is a good idea for a family friendly section, but for the time being, you teach your kids the difference between right and wrong.

    Posted by:J | July 21, 2008 at 09:13 PM

    ——————————————–

    @ J and John 10:59 and for the rest of my soccer loving brethren (coz we are all in this together) here who disagree.

    It’s really easy to paint with a wide brush. I’m not being defensive but I just want to let you guys know that some of us are still teaching our kids our values and we are raising our kids. She already has learned a word that I don’t use and I have been working with her so that she understands that it is not acceptable in our home or outside of our home.

    For some of us, there is no more important job than being a parent and we go at it 100%. You can call it a ECS, RBN, Screaming Eagles or Barra Brava or whatever supporters group you want to name sort of type of commitment and enthusiasm for parenting. I never shirk on my responsibilty because if I don’t make it home or a game one day, my real legacy is going to be what sort of father was I, not “he was a great DC United/Puerto Rico Islanders/Crystal Palace Baltimore fan. That dude really loved his teams” — though I would like for those accolades to be #2 just in case I buy the farm and anyone reading this bothers to remember me :).

    So I get what some you guys are saying. I

    really do. I’m my daughter’s #1 role model. I’ve got that. I always keep it in mind. And I mean always. I also want her to share the love of sport and sportsmanship (I’ve literally talked sports to her since she was in the womb).

    Ok-some people are going to be very suspicious and believe that I just made this up. They are going to think that it is all for dramatic effect:

    My wife, calls me in the middle of typing the last paragraph and recounts to me how my 3 year old daughter was clapping and singing a (G-rated) DC United chant from the back seat all the way to the daycare and talking about meeting “Brian, (Rowland) the portero” (Crystal Palace Baltimore USL2). Wants to know when I can take her to another game.

    I’m not asking anyone to raise my kid. That is my job. I’m just trying to share the other point of view. You guys pay your money. I pay mine. The seperate sections seems like a good compromise and a good goal to me. I will continue to avoid the sections where I can anticipate behavior that I don’t want to expose my child to. Mutual respect doesn’t mean that we have to agree.

    That’s all the space here that personally want to kill on the language thing.

    I’d much rather focus holding “professional” people to professional standards.

    Mastershake and some of the others here have an excellent point when they say that we don’t want any riots. Security staff have to held to a higher standard. We are paying customers and even if these were free events (which they are not), security staff would still need to be held to a higher standard than they are in many in many places. There are a lot of great, hardworking security staff but the belligerent, instigating trouble-seeking gang-like thugs have got to be terminated and replaced.

    Does it take a riot or a serious injury or loss of life to get these issues the attention that they deserve? Do things really have to go there?

    Are the venues and companies that business “stupid”? Some screening, training and management on the front end can help avoid the potential bad publicity, a huge civil settlements and criminal charges even if some of them appear to really seem to not value the health and well-being of their patrons.

  184. Jonny G says:

    Im sure that Tom provoked this by using bad language. Why do you need to curse when ther are little kids sitting next to you? My mom was there with me and i even heard it. She was going to complain but the other guy and his wife did first. Shame on you mr binkley.

  185. JayDelight says:

    To RBNation:

    Your isolated incident of one individual does not change what has occured between Section 101 and NJSEA Security.

    The targeted selection of certain people in Section 101 because of their skin color/ethnic makeup is disgusting and needs to be resolved ASAP.

    Besides, the reinstatement of those that were banished without just cause, targeted selection is a major concern.

  186. C. Elvis says:

    I have sat in every section of Giant Stadium, including 101 (for a season). I personally have never had a problem with security, although, I did notice they are more active in 101. I figured this was due to the enthusiasm that is shown in that section (as they try and keep things acceptable and under control). I had to move my seats from there because a. I wanted to watch the game and not sing and chant and dance all game (my choice) b. it was a little TOO colorful for me to take my daughter and nephews to the game (ages 5-15). I strongly feel that 101 has its place and that it should be separate from the rest of the crowd (root how you like). I love how they support the team but that is not how I choose to. I never saw security or the fans abuse or mistreat anyone but I could see how without level heads and respect for each other it could easily escalate any situation. The Galaxy game is tough becasue it is not treated like a regular season game (it is), it is a showcase game for the league and a higher profile. Fans should understand this and realize that games like this will make the league stronger and we will have our teams around to root for. I have met Binks and for sure, he doesn’t deserve a lifetime ban. mahalo.

  187. eboe says:

    not to be a naysayer, but just because you get your own stadium does not mean your problems end there… the real crime here in Columbus is that CSC is more focused on throwing out fans who throw streamers at the pitch and open umbrellas, than they are on the movements of some thuggish looking West Ham supporters who traipse into the home team’s support section looking for a fight, and tossing beer all over our fans. So it IS correct to call out security as a problem, and not just at “rented” stadiums. The problem is that these guys seem to not be able to distinguish soccer games from Ozzfest, and act equally violent at both. Every stadium should have to have police as security, as they receive true training on handling situations in a calm and rational manner.

  188. eboe says:

    And Johnny G, f**k off. It’s a passionate game and sometimes in this world you might have to hear or see something you don’t like. Get out of the bubble and step into the real world. Or stay home. I don’t give a f**k either way.

  189. HomeyBoehme says:

    I guess I am both shocked and saddened by a majority of what I read regarding NJSEA employees “professionalism”. There was a quote from an interview Ives did where he stated there is no such thing as bad publicity for the MLS.

    I have to say if there is a riot at the DC game that we will have officially hit “bad publicity”. Things are definitely at a tipping point. I really hope someone at NYRB is aware of how serious this situation is and they just spend the money to have REAL POLICE doing security for the remainder of the season/tenure at Giants stadium.

    The absolute last thing this country/MLS needs right now is a soccer riot.

  190. Dave says:

    This doesn’t happen at RFK. Giants Stadium staff needs an attitude adjustment.

  191. HooliganHarry says:

    No one has touched on the problem that prevails all sports. Sports are expensive. They’re corporate. They’re not for the blue collar fan anymore. They’ve been co-opted by corporate America. This is what happened in the UK. The blue collar fan was pushed out in favor of families/suits and now it’s too expensive to even afford a ticket to a Chelsea match. The same thing will happen at RB Park just like it’s happening in the NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL. They’ll let in ESC for the first two seasons then hike prices and stick them up in a section where they’re invisible. It will become family friendly and beer sales will be cutoff. All in the name of a “New World Order.” C’mon people, the revolution has got to start somewhere and it shouldn’t be over a pissing match regarding a dork named Binkey and some family. Take it to the streets. Overthrow the racist state known as the NJSEA. Revolution now.

  192. Paul says:

    Yankiboy’s right on the mark. If I’m guilty of “overprotecting” my kids because I don’t let them hear or watch profanity, so be it. But membership in a supporters club or being a season-ticket holder doesn’t give you a license to disregard the reasonable, respectfully voiced feelings of the rest of the world. Perhaps the long-term solution (besides leaving the Swamp and its poorly trained security force) is the “separate sections for the hard-core fans” idea already floated by many on this thread. As for me, I want to be able to go to a game and cheer, boo, and holler, but I don’t want any part of a “passion” that requires profanity, abuse, and worse to prove you’re a “real” fan.

  193. Mike V. says:

    There are a few things that annoy me in these comments.

    One is the insinuation that you have to choose whether your legacy is going to be as a good parent or a good fan. I wasn’t aware it was mutually exclusive. My Dad brought me to sporting events and didn’t shelter me from cursing, I always thought he was a great father but I guess he actually shirked his responisibility by not trying to control everyone elses actions. I’ll have to tell him he failed me by not overprotecting me from sports.

    Second is people talking about getting abused and harrased for wearing the other team’s shirt. Anytime I have been to an opposing team’s stadium I have gotten comments like “go home” “(insert team name) sucks” etc. I usually respond with an attempt at a clever rebuttal. I feel like a lot of parents over react and an innocent comment all of a sudden is assault or harrasment, just laugh it off or give a dirty look and move on.

    Also 101 is seperated for a reason. We sing, we stand, we curse, it’s no secret. Calling us all drunk hooligans is a pretty big generalization. There are drunk idiots at every sporting event, just because some are in our section doesn’t make us all that way. I’ve seen drunk idiots at Yankee games and did not assume that every Yankee fan is a drunk.

    Finally people have to realize that everyone isn’t going to change their behaviour so for your one night out to the stadium everything is just how you like it. It is absurdly selfish and unrealistic to expect everyone else in the world to conduct themselves in the mannor you deem fit. Also to all the parents, by the end of elementary school cursing was the norm, your kids aren’t as sheltered as you’d like to think. In addition your kids aren’t idiots unable to recognize poor behaviour. I know when I was young at a stadium and saw a drunk guy picking fights I didn’t go out get drunk and fight the next day, or go around shooting everything in sight after I played duckhunt. Give your kids more credit.

  194. onionsack says:

    Cursing – I see both sides of the coin, but the fact is we have to co-exist. No one side has a moral majority over the other.

    I think real police supervision of the section is the only way to go. There is no confidence in the NJSEA because of them fabricating charges and recial profiling. There is no trust that those people will be fair and nuetral. Because i believe if you do in fact violate the rules then you should be held accountable.

    The issue isnt that, it the justified fear that you will be arested on a whim or targeted because of the color of your skin or the language you speak.

    I said it before and i’ll say it again, THIS IS MUCH MORE ABOUT NJSEA THAN BINKLEY.

  195. Paul says:

    If Mike V. is right, then if I get a little bored with the match, I can just turn on my radio and play deafeningly loud music, right? Or maybe, just to pass the time, my buddy and I can spend the entire second half commenting loudly (but just between ourselves, of course) about how ugly/fat/stupid-looking/foul-smelling we find the man/woman/child sitting two rows down. It’s just free speech, right? And anyone who objected would be, in Mike V.’s words, “absurdly selfish and unrealistic.”

  196. just some guy says:

    did all the soccer moms leave yet..

  197. theonlygoodmetroisadeadmetro says:

    If this drives out the old “Metros” fans that’s a good thing. I’m tired of hearing old songs about a team long gone called the Metros. Why don’t you just sing Cosmos chants? That would make you more of a purist and put you at the right hand of the soccer father in the kingdom of the almighty pitch. Go watch the game at home so I can watch it with 7000 fans who actually watch the game like true football fans do. Most of ESC haven’t been overseas, they only see what happens on TV and think that every EPL, La Liga and Serie A match is mayhem and filled with riots. That was 20 years ago. Most games now are tame with separate sections for fans and zero liquor sales. ESC should just sit in the top section of the upper bowl at the next LA game. The less we have to hear from them and their “you suck asshole/big fat cunt” chants, the better.

  198. Richard says:

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA^^^^^HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  199. Pete says:

    HAHA. The thought that the ESC is trying to emulate the big European fans is a joke. We are a very diverse group, with members from all over the world, and most of the members who aren’t American are from South America and Eastern Europe, so that’s where we get most of our influence from.

    Quite frankly, I, along with many others, find EPL matches and fans to be boring. They are watered down events for the rich beautiful people — especially the “big four.” I am of the opinion that if you want to find real soccer fans, go to the lower league matches, go to the lesser leagues in Europe where it truly is about the club and not some superstar-gawking circus.

    We’re not going anywhere…and as this sport continues to grow in this country, there are going to be more of us and fewer soccer moms filling the seats. Deal with it, or go watch minor league baseball.

  200. yankiboy says:

    There are a few things that annoy me in these comments.

    One is the insinuation that you have to choose whether your legacy is going to be as a good parent or a good fan. I wasn’t aware it was mutually exclusive. My Dad brought me to sporting events and didn’t shelter me from cursing, I always thought he was a great father but I guess he actually shirked his responisibility by not trying to control everyone elses actions. I’ll have to tell him he failed me by not overprotecting me from sports.

    ——————————————–

    @ Mike V:

    Sorry that you misunderstood Mike. I wasn’t trying to insinuate that the two were mutually exclusive. I’m not sure where you got that from. I was stating how I prioritize my legacy.I even made the joke about the sports fan thing being #2.

    It wasn’t even a comment about the cursing or behavior. It was focused on letting people know that I understand when they say that parents need to parent, that they need to walk the walk and not simply differ to other people. That parenting starts at home.

    It seems like you personalized something wasn’t being projected for other people. It is my statement about what I want my legacy to be, not your dad or anyone elses.

    I sincerely apoligize for offending you and any confusion. It was “Yanki on Yanki”.

    I got enough work doing my own parenting rather than critiquing other people’s parenting.

    I’m sure I could learn a lot from your Dad and a lot of the Dads out there.

    Maximum Respect.

  201. JkR says:

    @Pete, the game is growing everywhere in the country except Giants stadium. I think I now understand why that is. The game day experience sounds miserable; overzealous security and obnoxious, self important supporters…Great day out!

  202. Raider Nation says:

    WTF??!? Unbelievable no one threw a punch. F*ck the racist wannabe cops! If the rent-a-pigs tried that sh!t in the Coliseum, not one of them would be standing. There would be a full-scale riot.

  203. yankiboy says:

    So regarding the subpar security: That is a safety issue. Something that needs immediate attention and has less to do with opinion. So many people recounting similar incidents–the authorities have to see that there is a pattern here.

    I guess my question is what can be done before the next home match? There has to be something. The correspondence is good but can a meeting be arranged? What is Red Bull doing. This looks like it is reaching a real boiling point.

  204. theonlygoodmetroisadeadmetro says:

    Pete, keep singin’ your “Metros” chants. The last time I checked, soccer moms only make up a small percentage of the fans at Giants Stadium so you don’t have many to run out of there. You don’t really have many people in general to run out! Only 7,000 people to piss off and you and your group can watch the game alone and chant whatever you want! Are soccer moms any less of a fan because they’re a mom with kids who play that come to one game a year? I’m a true fan and I personally find your chants to be racist, misogynistic, homophobic bigotry that still unfortunately exists in many leagues around the world. I’ve sat in 101 and watched women being called cunts who were members of ESC. You claim that you don’t like the game being taken over by the beautiful people yet your crew makes it ugly with your actions and exclusivity. Soccer is a sport for all people regardless of race, economic status or if they’re a member of ESC or not. You’re cutting off the oxygen supply that could break MLS into the stratosphere by being childish and protective of a sport in the nation’s largest market because you can’t swear at the top of your lungs and get mad at fans who show up to see a game once per year. This makes you more of an elitist than the so called “rich beautiful people who follow the ‘big four’” that you despise.

  205. Mike V. says:

    Yankiboy, thanks for clearing that up it’s hard not to get riled up in a conversation that I have such strong feelings about but I now understand your point.

    Paul, I think you and I both know there is a huge difference between playing deafeningly loud music or insulting a fellow fans appearance and cursing in the heat of the moment while pulling for your team. Are there limits to what is acceptable behaviour at a game? Of course. However at the same time to expect everyone to behave withing the exact parameters that you yourself deem to be correct is ,as I said earlier, absurldy selfish and unrealistic.

  206. Pete says:

    All right, I’m not going to get into a pissing match on a the comments section of a blog. But I’ll just make on point: There are racists and bigots in every section of that stadium — in every section of every stadium in the world. I’m sorry you had to hear an individual — one, individual — call a woman a demeaning name. But to pass it off that the ESC is a bunch of racists and bigots is absolutely laughable. The ESC, as I said before, is more diverse than the stadium at large, that’s for certain. We have middle-class white boys; lawyers; working class construction workers; African Americans; Mexicans; Brits; Colombians; Argentines; Uruguayans; Bolivians; Ukrainians; Pollacks; Asians; Italians; and yes, women, among many other ethnicities I’m sure I’m missing. Many of us are friends and any language we use during the match isn’t intended to disparage any particular group. Sure, there are despicable people in 101 — but there are despicable people everywhere! In the end, it comes down to a difference of opinion on how one wants to support/spend a day at the stadium. But as the crowds continue to dwindle after the RB takeover, there is one section that continues to grow: 101. So I think we’re doing something to attract new people to the games, unlike the players on the field. By the way, I never called EPL fans elitist — I called them boring.

    I’m sorry what was almost 200 comments of interesting and constructive dialogue about the nature of support and the double standards security has when dealing with supporters has devolved into this.

  207. Ives – great job bringing this story to light.

    Here is my part as well: an interview with Binkley:

    link to redbulls.theoffside.com

    Enjoy.

  208. Jose says:

    I don’t agree with the lifetime ban, but I have been to a lot of Metrostar/Red Bull games and I must say that I love the ESC passion but chanting of curses like this video aren’t really good either:

    link to youtube.com

    I mean we should welcome all fans even if they are coming to cheer for Beckham, etc. Who knows if these people have a pleasent experience (and I am not saying they didn’t) they may come back again and cheer for the Red Bulls. I know if I have a kid with me I won’t sit near 101, etc. But even if I move, it is not like I can’t hear what 101 is chanting and sometimes the curses, etc. Also in the new Red Bull Park, moving might be more difficult, and again I shouldn’t have to because like people in 101 who have the right to chant whatever, I have the right to take a kid to the game and sit where I paid my ticket. Again, I love the passion, but a cleaner version would be great too! It is great to see kids in the stadium because they are the future of the sport wether as future players or fans!

    There has to be some ethics for Fan! and again welcoming everybody is good for the sport, etc.

    Oh and just because you hear it in other games, or sports doesn’t make it right either!

  209. Civil Fan says:

    Ives,

    I have been to many a metrostar/red bull game over the years and have not once run into problems with security there. It seems that so many people just dont know what it means to behave civilly.

    There is no need to be cursing at fellow fans or throwing beer at fans who have come to the stadium to enjoy the game just because they happen to support the other team. I have witnessed firsthand, harassment of families with children (catcalls, insults etc.) by drunken jerks who consider themselves to be “real fans.” The only reason for this abuse is that a family dared to show up to the stadium. On other ocassions i have seen people violently and energetically jump up and down on plastic stadium seats which threaten to break under the constant motion. Other times i have seen people casually light up and start smoking marijuana. All this and some people still wonder why they are asked to leave by security? It’s mindboggling…. The Giants Stadium Security is doing its job as far as Im concerned…..

    In all my years at the stadium the only time i thought that security went too far was when they banned the hanging of banners in the stadium. I used to like the homemade bedsheet banner that read “Petke Rocks” at home games.

  210. Mike V. says:

    “There is no need to be cursing at fellow fans or throwing beer at fans who have come to the stadium to enjoy the game just because they happen to support the other team. I have witnessed firsthand, harassment of families with children (catcalls, insults etc.) by drunken jerks who consider themselves to be “real fans.” The only reason for this abuse is that a family dared to show up to the stadium. On other ocassions i have seen people violently and energetically jump up and down on plastic stadium seats which threaten to break under the constant motion. Other times i have seen people casually light up and start smoking marijuana. All this and some people still wonder why they are asked to leave by security? It’s mindboggling…. The Giants Stadium Security is doing its job as far as Im concerned…..”

    Civil Fan,

    I’ve been going to every home game for 4 years and a few games every year since 200 and if people are behaving like that we must have been at two different games. I have not once seen innocent fans attacked or have beer thrown at them. To insinuate that families are attacked for being families is utterly ridiculous. You must have gotten hold of ESC’s secret plans to attack all families. Smoking Weed? People are thrown out for cursing or standing on chairs but security misses them lighting up right in the middle of the game…..pretty doubtful. As for jumping up and down on seats the ESC discourages this and leaders tell people to get down when they do it. Also ESC leadership does not defend those who stand on or break chairs. Also ESC only stands or pogos (jumping up and down NOT ON SEATS) in their designated section so how this affects you I have no idea.

    Please make your argument with volid points. I have no problem with people haveing varying opinions but to use blatant lies to make your point and paint an innacurate picture of a group of people is just plain wrong.

  211. brett says:

    i wonder how this topic would be taken in other countries…..

    i wonder if parents bother to tell fans of teams to watch their mouth in Argentina, Mexico, England, Spain, Italy Etc… if you were to be on vacation and to take your kid to a Manchester United game, would you parents tell them to watch what they say when they drop f-Bombs and See You Next Tuesday’s??

    this discussion is the same reason why games like Freeze tag, Dodgeball and others like that are banned from Gym classes around the nation…. kids cant play Freeze tag in gym b/c it picks on the fat kids…. they cant play dodgeball b/c it creates bullies… why are we caudling our young so much, b/c the world is quite a different place… people get picked on… there are bullies (both in the streets and professional world)… kids arent created fat by tag… bullies arent created by throwing cushioned balls at other kids… these are characterists that derive from parenting…

    perhaps we should set snipers up on the rafters so when some speaks an inappropriate word that even a 3 yr has heard before from some form of media (whether its tv/movie/in person), then he should be “taken out”…

  212. brett says:

    in other words, the guy sitting near you cussing at a soccer game is not going to cause your child to cuss… they will or already have learned such words… its up to the parent to show them that its not appropriate and bad…. censoring people is not the answer…

  213. BigG says:

    big props to “brett”….this is rediculous! as my deceased father said to a fan at meadowlands arena after blowing an air horn during an event when i was about 7 yo, “this isn’t your living room”. these people should go live in the bubble in “stoopit” land and watch the action muted so they don’t hear anything from the telecast, either.

  214. theonlygoodmetroisadeadmetro says:

    Civil Fan: See the ESC supporters have what is called “selective and collective memory.” It happens when you smoke too much ganja and drink too much beer prior, during and after games. Moving out of Giants Stadium will actually be beneficial for us true fans(soccer moms and families) with the planned skyboxes, luxury seats, etc. ESC won’t be welcomed and if they are it will be in a caged area outside the stadium. Red Bull is looking to create an atmosphere in RB Park that will be similar to Stamford Bridge. Hooligans can watch from the local bar while celebrities, families and wall street types watch from inside in the $500 per game seats.

  215. onionsack says:

    People just need to use common sense. If your sitting next to kids at a game you should at least try to not be beligerant. At the same time people have to remeber football is an emotional sport and it makes people crazy at times. They are emotionaly tied to the team and often dont mean any harm to you at all.

    As for cursing in songs. I think we sing maybe 2 songs that are profanity laiden. Thats it. Except for DC songs those are ripe with obsenties.

    It all goes back to co-existance. Respect each others right to conduct themselves at matches even if it isnt how you like to do it. That means supporters need to lay off the family orientated crowd for being to soft and let them enjoy their match and stop questioning their dedication.

    It also means the family oriented crowd has to realize that there are some wildly passioate fans in football and they shouldn’t lecture them on proper manners or try and dictate what they can or cant sing a few sections over.

  216. MasterShake says:

    Seriously, no cursing at a sporting event? what next? no farting? no whistling? no talking?

  217. Train says:

    This is why the internet is terrible. Cursing in stadiums and in front of children… not ideal, but ridiculous to get kicked out over. Having worked in a lily white school district I can assure you… 9yo’s are dropping the F bomb daily. Not to mention they use the dreaded C word more than anyone I know. Parents have no idea who their kids truly are. It’s just a fact. Think about when you were a kid.

    Secondly security at Giants Stadium has always been a problem. You would hear less racial abuse at a KKK meeting.

    This coming from a season ticket holder since 1996. Granted I’ve missed 12 games since then, but who ever thinks there is a problem with how Metro/Bull fans treat fans in visitor jerseys… they should go to a local hockey or football game. Their head would explode.

  218. Connor b says:

    deadmetro:

    That stuff about how RBP will be for the “true fans” is first of all wrong. There have been meetings between the front office and ESC so our section is exactly how we want it. So they must figure we are good for something. But in my opinion a true fan is someone who goes to work so they can earn the money to get into the stadium and follow their team. We have many guys who went to tech schools and now do manual labor. Now they work their asses off to get in the stadium and support the team, that is a real fan in my eyes.

    Also the idea that “true fans” are rich upper class people and that ESC is poor, which you are undoubtedly saying is just pompus and snobbish. Why do you have to turn this into ESC cannot afford this or that. Some people at the game told me I would never know what the crowd is like at a football game because I couldnt afford to go. I like to try and remain calm, but to comments like that all I have to say is f*ck off!

    Also about selective memory, I am sorry guys this is ridiculous. I was a big metro/bulls fan from when I was 12 years old up and went to almost every game. As soon as I turned 17 and could drive myself to the stadium I went to my first game with ESC and then on a bus trip the next week. ESC is a cool bunch of guys who love the game and jump and cheer and yes curse, in their own section! In 6+ years of going to games at Giants Stadium I have never seen anyone in ESC attack a member or anything of the sort.

    Also someone said that the ESC is racist?!?! Please give an example, and as pointed by someone else we are so diverse there is no one to be racist against. We have asians, blacks, whites, a ton of latinos, and white collar workers. We all love each other and there is no one to be racist against. Please express your opinions, but don’t lie!

  219. Scott A says:

    Haha you puritans so concerned about people chanting ‘bullshit’ or whatever can stay home. Go to a game anywhere else in the world and listen to the hilarious chants often containing some colorful language. The world didn’t implode..there are worse things in the world to worry about. That said, if you’re around a family that’s made uncomfortable by something, a decent person will make an effort to tone it down. Who yells at a woman and her kid for having a Beckham jersey? It kinda annoys me too but give it a break. But asking a fan group to keep soccer chants totally clean??? Seriously.. We can have a passionate adult experience and a fun family one at a soccer game simultaneously

    ..by the way, I’m pretty sure deadmetro isn’t to be taken seriously. Either messing around for a laugh or something else, because no one seriously says they want a stadium filled with Wall Street bankers

  220. Richard says:

    the deadmetro guy really has no idea what he is talking about…

  221. CBZ says:

    Zoffinger and the NJSEA have always been complete buffoons, and not just with Metro/Red Bulls. The Giants, Jets, Nets and previously the Devils have always had some of the worst leases in all of sports The NJSEA attitude was always if you don’t like it, then leave. The Devils are gone, the Nets and Red Bulls will be soon and the Giants & Jets are building there are stadium. The NJSEA fittingly will be stuck with a big, ugly, empty albatross of an area and a whole bunch of fat rent-a-cops will be on the unemployment line.

  222. HimmyRedBull says:

    It’s not just security. But it’s the little things. The authority has horrendous food service for soccer games, which pales in comparison to even minor league baseball stadiums in Pennsylvania. I went to a Metro-DC game once and DC’s name was larger than NY’s on the hallway scoreboards. What’s with that?

    I can’t wait til Metro moves out of that ghastly skeleton of a long-gone stadium era.

  223. martha in miami says:

    Man, it got kinda ugly on this thread, lol! To I think it was Brett, As a diehard Juventus fan, I am well aware that Del Piero is one of the lucky few whom will retire having played for only one club, and he is quite honorable that way! I was trying to disfuse/lighten things up, as it was getting intense regarding future fan reaction. My point was as the Becks comment started this saga, we need other super stars to stir it up some more, lol! p.s. Angel goal was #1 in Mia. Span. News top 10! WTG

  224. Ed says:

    Comical stuff from some of these people.

    Cursing is ok. Cursing is wrong. If you do curse, its then ok to take free reign and violate people rights and break their cameras and falsify charges. I’m a good parent because I keep my kids sheltered. I’m a good parent cuz I don’t.

    The best one had to be that Security at GS only throws out guilty parties. I had a good laugh at that one. Where is this bizarro Giant’s Stadium and how can I find it?

  225. Mark says:

    I truly hope ESC addresses the security issue as best they can with Red Bull and the NJSEA. I would hate to have a game marred with true violence between those in 101 and the yellow shirts. I’m a huge fan, and while I would never consider singing and jumping around all game(it’s not my bag), I’m glad the section is available to those who want to show their passion for the game/team in that way. With the past history between 101 and security, this is likely going to remain an issue so I hope Ives and others continue to shine a light on the poor conduct in hopes that someone with some authority will take notice.

    I also hope Binkley gets his ban overturned. He deserved to get tossed after things got ugly with the parent, but a lifetime ban is excessive.

    As for the cursing, I think Onionsack put it best by calling for mutual respect and plain common sense. When my sons get older, I plan to take them to games with me. And if someone curses in the heat of the moment, I’m not going to make a huge deal out of it. If there is “persistent infringement”, then I’ll need to sort that out with the individual. No one expects fans to be choir boys/girls at these events, and as a parent I realize my kids will probably talk like sailors amongst their peers at a younger age than I’d like(I know I did), but at the same time that shouldn’t be used as an excuse for bad behavior at games, IE, they’re gonna curse anyway, so why ask me to stop cursing. A little respect for each other goes a long way towards making the games a more enjoyable experience.

    If only Red Bull can do their part with a winning team…

  226. brett says:

    martha in miami – sorry if i got short on the “lets drop the Del Piero to MLS” comment… ive heard this rumor so many times and have pointed out so many times that DP has stated that he’s retiring with juventus… im with you on this tho… Juventus is the only euro team i follow closely… i wont consider myself a die hard fan, but a fan none-the-less… i would love to see DP come to the MLS and obviously to the Fire… id be pained to see him don a redbull’s jersey :(

  227. Paul says:

    Mike V.: Thanks for responding to my post. Sorry if I seemed to mischaracterize your point with my hyperbole. (Maybe I need to take a lesson in civility from yankiboy.) Of course there’s a difference between cursing at the players and lobbing personal insults at fans. And I’ll also concede that in a public place we can’t hold everyone else to our own personal standards of behavior. But (and I acknowledge that you were not making this argument) I think some folks on this list would say that insulting and abusing others who happen to be rooting for the visiting team is perfectly acceptable. On the other hand, some have argued here that even cursing is unacceptable if there are children in the vicinity. It’s a difficult line-drawing exercise about which reasonable people can differ. But just as every utterance of a curse word should not be grounds for ejection or even complaints, not every request that someone desist from using really nasty language is necessarily absurdly selfish and unrealistic. Would you agree?

  228. Mike V. says:

    Paul,

    I would agree. I think all of those who have been commenting in a reasonable fashion have pretty much come to the conclusion that respect and common sense should be the guide. While parents shouldn’t expect to go to a game and not hear a curse there is also no need for excessive cursing just for the hell(or heck) of it. Soccer around the world is characterized by a different kind of fan culture and support and I think it is only natural that as the sport expands there are some growing pains in combining traditional soccer style support and traditional American style support.

    As for security it is a whole different issue that after that long tangent we all went off on I’ll leave it at a thanks to Ives for shedding light on the issue.

  229. Paul says:

    Mike V.: Thanks for responding again. I second your call for respect and common sense, both of which you have exhibited here. If such respect and common sense ruled in the stands (and on this list), I think we’d all be happy.

  230. gwebster says:

    I knoow if I was Jeff Agoos, or whoever runs the Red Bulls, I’d be laying in a supply of mr. Binks’s favorite beverage and inviting him to watch the rest of our home games with me from a VIP booth. Why not show a little class?

  231. Jerry Nowak says:

    Giants stadium is the worst run stadium in the country. The food sucks and is far too expensive for the quality. The parking and staff help in exit is very poor!!!! For the LA game there was no direction to exit by the staff but they continue to charge $10 to park. Can’t wait until we get our own place.

    JN

  232. cesar says:

    We were doing wipeout when i heard and saw the rocus staring on the passage way. I got closer to see what was happening, thats when i realized that they were taking one of our guys. I started to ask the security “why are they taking him?”. His responce was “don’t worry about it”. Soon after that is when the pulling and pushing started. The next thing i remember is that a lady takes an elbow to the side of the head. We are trying to let security know that there is an injured lady but, there main concern was that our guy be removed. Due to the “i dont care attitude” of the security everyone including myself became irrate. The video footage begins when the crowd is pointing at the guy who elbowed the lady:

    link to youtube.com

    00:15 – you catch a glimspe of me indicating with my left elbow that there is a lady hurt by the elbow she recieved (im the guy u see between flaco and the guy with what looks like an argentina jersey)

    01.00 – a confrontation occurs between a security guard and one our guys (do not know the reason)

    01:15 – i recover from a fall and try to explain to the security guy that there is no reason for them to still stay

    there

    01:39 – bottle is thrown at the State Trooper from another area, and the area that had the heat of the chaos

    (which i was in) tries to tell people to calm down.

    01:53 – the security behind the trooper signals with his left hand that he wants me out..(no reason as to why)

    02:09 – I start a conversation with the state trooper in reference to the fact that there is still a lady injured and

    that they are pulling people out who are trying to calm things down.

    02:13 – i start asking why the hell am i getting thrown out

    02:25 – i get pushed back from the crowd

    02:28 – security pushes me down and tries to get me (what did i do in 3 seconds..lol)

    02:29 – Marcos pushes the guard off of me

    02:36 – people that had nothing to do “in” the rocus start pointing at the security who pushed me and

    tried to yank me out.

    03:47 – security talks to State Trooper about having me removed (still dont know the reason)

    03:57 – he yells out that it was “improper behavior”

    04:29 – I turn around an cross my arms to argue with him and he puts his finger inches from my face

    04:37 – a fan in a white hat puts the security hand down, because he realizes that there is no reason why he

    is acting so confrontational towards me.

    04:40 – We start an arguing fest on the fact that there is no reason why i should be getting kicked out

    From then on you see that he is the only security guard in the middle of the whole rocus while the rest of his co-workers are in the aisle. At no point whats so ever am i being confrontational nor was i sturring up the crowd nor was i desplaying improper behavior. Did i get pissed off at the fact that i was told that i was getting ejected?..YES. And to argue my fact that is why i turned around, crossed my arms and argued the fact (time line 04:29)

  233. WHOAnesto says:

    Monterrey Security at Toyota Park is just as bad. More often than not, they are instigators and simply get their kicks from tickin’ people off and starting fights, etc.

    As much as a dislike Columbus, the security at their stadium has been polite and professional both times I have traveled as a Fire fan.

  234. D says:

    While I was not at the game, nor do I admittedly have all the information, here are some thoughts…

    1. I have been to many DC United games, and not only do the DC Police handle the supporters groups sections, but they know many of the leaders by name and openly talk as equals to these people during halftime, before and after the games.

    2. Everyone needs to be more tolerant of each others behavior. Not suggesting singing campfire songs or anything, but really, Moms and Dads should go to school and hear what some of the kids say. A bit more than Beckham sucks to be honest.

    3. Lastly, it’s unfortunate that soccer gets such a bad rap. Does anyone at Duke University, the self proclaimed mecca of college basketball and smart kids, complain to security when the entire stadium chants “bullshit, bullshit” when one of their beloved scholar athletes gets called for something they disagree with? This happens at nearly every single sporting event! Use it as an opportunity to educate your OWN kids, not someone else’s!

  235. twakum says:

    Jesus H Christ, as a guy who has spent his adult life underwriting commercial liability insurance, including that for stadiums, authorities and security guard firms, I am very happy I have nothing to do with these clowns. What a bunch of thugs, “yellow nazis” is correct.